NTV/Multimax Rugby letdown.

[Philoz]

Was looking forward to the Calcutta cup game,had got the beers in ready for the kick off, got through the first half OK-but unwatchable from then on,due to buffering.

Gave up in the end-other channels were working OK,very frustrating.

Not the first time this has happened,every big British sporting event suffers from the same problem in my experience.

Come on Multimax/NTV-lets have a bit more bandwidth for big sporting events.

The service is good 95% of the time,but fails when Engand are paying Rugby or football.
Ended up watching pre recorded 'Breaking Bad'.

[erol]

Hi Philoz

I can not speak for NTV. On behalf of MM I do understand your frustration and I am sorry that your viewing of the game using our internet connection was less that you and we would have liked.

We did experience a loss of around 35% of the total capacity on the TTnet link we use to connect out from Cyprus to Turkey and the rest of the internet that started Just after 19:30 and was not rectified until just before 20:30. This almost certainly was the cause or a contributing factor for the problems you experienced when trying to watch the game. We had reported this fault to TTnet within minutes of it happening. I realise this is frustrating for you as a customer, it is frustrating for us too as well. We do have enough bandwidth (capacity) within our network for peak times and we do pay TTNet for enough capacity out of Cyprus via Turkey to the rest of the internet. However there are times where that dedicated capacity we have paid TTNet for 'fails' for a period, as it did in this case.

Below is a graph showing the total traffic on our ttnet link from today between 18:00 and 21:00. The peak of this graph reaches about 80% of the dedicated capacity we have paid for on this link. As you can see shortly after 19:30 there is a sudden drop (and actually this graph has been 'smoothed' the drop was pretty much straight line). This represents the partial failure on TTnet link out to Turkey.

So I will apologise again on behalf of Multimax and whilst I realise my post does little to make up for the interruption in your viewing of the game I do hope that having an honest description of the nature of the problem that almost certainly was the cause of it is at least better than no explanation or comment from MM at all.

[jofra]

What may also have a considerable effect (Erol may correct me?) is the "contention ratio" - that is when more people are on line, "grabbing" a share of the available download bandwidth - so, if you all sit at home watching individually, it's your own fault - don't be antisocial; invite everybody in and as many as possible watch (and download) on as few as possible computers! Get the beers in and have a party!

[erol]

What may also have a considerable effect (Erol may correct me?) is the "contention ratio"

Er...

Tricky subject.

Short answer

What happened tonight (well last night now technically) was not down to 'contention' per se but was down to a 'partial failure' for a period of the link out from Cyprus to Turkey that we buy from TTnet, leading to that link not providing the capacity it should do and that we are paying for it to do. When MM is doing it's job properly (and when the things it has paid 'others' for are working as they should) 'contention' is not an issue.

Long answer

The data you receive (or send) at your home will pass through a succession of devices and links of ever increasing 'aggregation' - that is being combined with other peoples data onto a single link. Each 'section' of increasing aggregation can potentially become 'saturated' - that is where it has reached the maximum capacity of that section. If a given section becomes saturated (reaches it's maximum capacity) then all those whose traffic is aggregated onto this section speeds can potentially be affected to some degree whilst it remains saturated.

What we (MM) do, what our 'job' is as an ISP is to match and balance 'demand' against 'capacity' in each of the sections of the network under our control. Increasing the capacity of each (increasingly aggregated) section as the demand on that section increases, and when we get it right capacity is always increased just before demand reaches the maximum of that capacity. If we do not get it right and fail to increase the capacity of a given section ahead of increasing demand then that section becomes saturated (during times of peak demand) and all those whose traffic is aggregated onto that section speeds can be affected whilst it is saturated until we do increase the capacity of that section. If we just put in loads of excess capacity in every section long before demand requires it, then the cost of providing the service increases and becomes much higher than is actually necessary.

So the journey of 'sections' and 'increasing aggregation' goes from the device on your roof to a 'sector' on a base station, the first point of aggregation where your data is combined with that of others that also connect to the same sector. This sector will have a maximum capacity. The base station in turn will typically have multiple 'sectors' and the traffic from all of these will be combined with the traffic from 'your' sector' onto the link out from that base station, which will also have a maximum capacity. This link out from the base station will go to some 'point' where it will be combined with traffic from the links out from other base stations. This point in turn will have a link out from it that combines all the traffic from from the other base stations connected to it and will itself then have a link out from there, which will have a maximum capacity. Ultimately all the traffic from all of MM's customers end up aggregated in Nicosia where it in turn passes out over the final (MM) link, which is the TTnet link out to Turkey. This link itself has has a maximum capacity.

The TTnet link that carries the aggregated traffic of all MM customers is in fact the easiest to manage and to match capacity against demand with. However it is not under MM direct control (unlike all the earlier links are). We pay TTNet for a maximum capacity on this link and continuously increase that maximum capacity as demand approaches saturation point on that link. What happened tonight (well last night now technically) was that the TTNet link for a period of time was failing to provide the maximum capacity that we had paid for and that it should provide. As a result all MM customer speeds were potentially affected for the duration of this fault.

The 'journey' does not end there. The traffic that goes out over our TTnet link to Turkey will in turn be aggregated with traffic from other parts of Turkey, again in ever increasing aggregated links and will eventually pass out of TTnet's network via a link they in turn buy from a 'transit provider' - companies like NTT and Level 3. These companies will will aggregated this traffic onto their core links connecting countries and continents and then the data will start to cascade down ever decreasingly aggregated links to its final destination, in the reverse of the aggregation 'up' from your house to sector to base station to TTnet to transit provider.

Any of these multitude of links of increasing aggregation between you and 'somewhere else' on the internet, the ones under MM's control and the ones not, can potentially become 'saturated'. Any of them can potentially 'fail' partially or completely.

I do sometimes think it is a remarkable that the internet works at all

And finally for anyone who has made it this far (congrats if you have in this age of 15 second attention spans)

Get the beers in and have a party!

So it's all round to Philoz's for the next Rugby game then ?

[Hammerhead]

looks like it is the same problem for the base price as it is to the highest tariff on multimax as mine was also unwatchable

[Becker]

I wasn't going to get involved in any internet supplier threads. What has changed my mind is this. For the past 3 weeks I have spoken to Multimax team about the dreadful internet readings. On several occasions I have called in,taken router in to be checked,had various conversations with a young lady that says we were onto the incorrect base station which she said had been corrected! Have had a text to say problem with fiber optics from Turkey saying that they would start repairs on 2 nd. February, well it's the 7th today! Quite honestly we have had pretty much unwatchable tv for these 3 weeks with exception to maybe 3 or 4 good days. Yes,we have done the switch on switch off scenario countless times,dozens of speed tests (consequently Multimax one doesn't work if you try a reading it goes to Turkish & opposite), the most we have had at all times is 6+ for a couple of hours,it has been as low as .256 usually runs at no more than 1.5. I actually took pictures of the speeds,took them into the lady,her response was"where did these come from"? One of the other tests available as yours doent work. I did request to see someone that could explain what is wrong,unfortunately there was no one available. Well Erol,Kemal or whoever can PM me or call so we can hopefully sort this situation. Thanks in advance. Can be tomorrow as I don't want to spoil anyone's weekend.

[Groucho]

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5065291217

Speeds OK now

[silverfox1]

The rhetoric and texts are all well and good from MM but this problem has been going on for weeks with no solution.
Less rhetoric more action would be good as all MM customers just want what they are paying for and for a month this has just not been the case.

[tomsteel]

Exactly what further action do you recommend MM take to resolve a problem not of its making, outside of the company's control and the company has provided a detailed explanation of the issues involved? If you can provide a solution, please, please pass it on to MM so it can institute the measure(s) you have provided.

[Becker]

No idea which area you are in Groucho, we are in Alsancak & believe onto Merit base station & currently have 1.98.

[Bert]

Why after that explanation do people still blame MM? My internet has been perfect until the spike that was explained totally nothing to do with MM. Keep up the effort MM it's the best!

[Groucho]

Why after that explanation do people still blame MM? My internet has been perfect until the spike that was explained totally nothing to do with MM. Keep up the effort MM it's the best!

Unfortunately it's expectations of 100% speed 100% of the time that leads to the misunderstanding of what the nature of the beast is...

The internet is not 100x100 and with many intermediaries (not under the control of your ISP) it is moving feast at the best of times... as it stands it's a less than perfect medium for live TV streaming at peak hours. Of course, the pace of technology being what it is, this will come in the not too distant future - but to have expectations that this should be 'now' is simply flying in the face of the realities of the current SOP.

[Navek]

Hi Becker,
We couldn't watch the Rugby yesterday either

Ran a few speeds tests.
Speeds varied from 09.09 Mb/s to 23.21 Mb/s
This is in Esentepe, app 1 mile from base station.

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5065492705

I have 2 routers, hard wired to PC & MAG254 STB &
Icecube 2 Android TV Box via Wi-Fi

Both routers were checked and set up by my ISP.
Also had the exterior cable, from roof receiver to router replaced recently,
after suffering speed problems similar to yours.
You do seem to have a problem somewhere.
Navek

[Becker]

Hi Navek. MM checked my router. All good. Just have to wait see what they say tomorrow. Last post got lost somewhere. Groucho, I for one do not expect 100% 24/7! 50% would be nice, on current speeds over last few weeks I doubt if it would equate to 15%.

[PoshinDevon]

I think the explanations as given by Erol, both the short and long versions really do explain the problem. Sometimes things are just outside of the control of any ISP, especially those attempting to provide a service in North Cyprus.

Some of course will never be satisfied but I do believe the majority who use Multimax are happy with there service, support and explanation when things do not go right. It is no doubt frustrating when things do not work but would be very rare if a UK ISP went to such lengths to explain issues and outages - which do happen. A lot of the time you will be on the phone to a customer call centre in India.

Lets hope things get resolved for all concerned quickly.

[Carbotec]

What seems to work for me if BBC is constantly buffering switch to BBC HQ and most of the time it's ok, worth a try.

[Becker]

P in D. "Some will never be satisfied". I am not one of those! All I ask is for a decent supply of Internet, have been through the correct channels, I think 3 weeks is enough time to sort these problems. Seems to me that part of the area are getting 18+ while I am struggling to get 2! Don't think "never satisfied" is quite correct in my case. Brick & wall spring to mind!

[Hammerhead]

I am getting 11 average but still had the same problems as anyone else and that's with the platinum package,most of the time it is good but obviously there are too many of us watching rugby,its a bit rum oops I mean scrum

[brian24001]

What seems to work for me if BBC is constantly buffering switch to BBC HQ and most of the time it's ok, worth a try.

Funny you say that, illogical as it is that a higher quality would download easier.
I went to the Taj (old Bar 88 in Alsancak) last night whilst the rugger was on (for any Scots reading ................... you lost!) and the HD pictures was great with almost zero buffering.

When I returned home, I tried to put it on but the buffering made it pretty much unwatchable. To be honest, never thought to try HD as would have expected this to be worse, but maybe not.

Only difference though, the Taj MM connection is to the Merit, ours for some reason points up the mountain towards ST Hellarian. We are only about 400-500m apart.

Tv improved greatly later in the evening in line with Erol's mention of the drop in traffic speed.

[PoshinDevon]

P in D. "Some will never be satisfied". I am not one of those! All I ask is for a decent supply of Internet, have been through the correct channels, I think 3 weeks is enough time to sort these problems. Seems to me that part of the area are getting 18+ while I am struggling to get 2! Don't think "never satisfied" is quite correct in my case. Brick & wall spring to mind!

I did not say you were one of those who is never satisfied, however there are some who are.

I am sure you have a log of dates, times and incident numbers when you reported the problems to Multimax and if it was me, I would be calling into there offices with this information and ask to rrange a meeting at a convenient time to speak to someone and discuss the issues. Any company looking to retain customers and grow their business would be sure to listen. I hope things are sorted for you soon.

Its no help but in the UK we would rarely get such a detailed explanation and feedback about a problem.

[Leither]

Once again everyone is being let down,how can they justify price increases and keep on blaming connections to Turkey,I have just renewed my annual subs I now wish I hadn"t its a shame but I am so dissapointed with Multimax, the way ahead maybe Extend or are they just as bad?

[Becker]

Just done another speed test with Testmy.net. .768! That is not 7 . 68! Will not run laptop & I-pad together. I hope I can have some sensible answers tomorrow fro competent persons! Mmmmm.

[Navek]

Hi Becker,
Three words spring to mind.
Organ Grinder Monkey.
Good luck
Navek

[tomsteel]

Posters disappointed with the MM service are, of course, free to discontinue the provision and find another provider. Dripping on this forum, especially after a detailed explanation of the problem, is achieving nothing in regards to a solution. Move on folks and find a provider you can then recommend.

[Becker]

Tomsteel,Of course I/ we can. Maybe you have had a better explanation than I! If it's all to do with Turkey,why , it seems parts are unaffected? Maybe I m missing something here,explanation I received via text was blah,blah,blah,rectification work will commence on Feb. 2nd. Maybe it would have been an idea to have started two weeks before. There is clearly a problem.

[tomsteel]

I, obviously, do not have a better explanation than offered by MM. Your query as to why the problem "it's all to do with Turkey, why", is way beyond my technical understanding? Why do you not ask MM, or another preferred provider, to answer if you do not believe accept the explanation already offered? I just wonder what response you would receive if you were anywhere else in the world from a company on a public forum to your obvious scepticism /disbelief of the explanation provided by MM.

[Navek]

"the most we have had at all times is 6+ for a couple of hours,it has been as low as .256 usually runs at no more than 1.5. I actually took pictures of the speeds,took them into the lady,her response was"where did these come from"

This does not seem to be a TTnet problem.
I'm sure "other" posters would also be concerned with such low speeds.
Navek

[Becker]

This is my last say on this. Tomsteel MM are very aware of my situation. Only explanation I have received is by text,other than the stuff someone has told me in their office & by telephone over the past 3 weeks. I will be visiting them tomorrow,maybe I will get a proper explanation,maybe not. I only want what I have subscribed for or a service that will run my tv & I- pad or laptop together. I DO NOT expect 100% 24/7.

[teatime]

I'm not convinced it was totally a MM problem. 2nd half of the rugby was unwatchable on NTV, but I was getting good speeds from MM so I went to the BBC web site on computer and watched it live there with no problems.

[sophie]

I have to say that I am beginning to suspect some of the problem lies with BBC. i.e. BBC iPlayer buffers more than ITV does. BBC watched via NTV buffers more than ITV or any others obtained via NTV. I know MM have been having problems, but more and more I tend to think there is an underlying problem with BBC. Having said that, the boffins amongst you could very well tell me that it's rubbish!! Obviously BBC iplayer is obtained using the MM VPN which again may have a bearing on poor reception?.

[TRNCVaughan]

NTV Videoclub not working here.
Can get to menu but then screen freezes.
Have to unplug MAG250 box to get back to TV menu.

[Hammerhead]

I had 37mbs today and no icture on tv and found it was ntv problem,they sorted it and no problems

[frontalman]

No problem watching with Extend, maybe less people trying to watch the game????

[erol]

Engaging with customers directly via a forum like this is always challenging. My original reply was in regards to the specific event that the original poster, Philoz, was referring to. Inevitably it has led to other things being introduced into the discussion and I am sorry that it is not practical to address each and every one individually. However I do wish to make a comment about the follow one.

I have just renewed my annual subs I now wish I hadn"t its a shame but I am so dissapointed with Multimax, the way ahead maybe Extend or are they just as bad?

If a MM customer is dissatisfied with our service, MM will allow that customer to terminate their contract before its normal expiration and we will refund such customers for any unused portion of the contract that remains. Such a refund is not 'instant', there is a procedure for such and it can take up to two weeks for the refund to be made available. Such refunds will also be via local cheque. However we will refund such customers.

Of course our preferred approach in such circumstances is to try and rectify any problems and reach a point where the customer is happy but if the customer feels that there is no point in such efforts or continuing them , then we will refund them for any unused portion of their current contract (with the caveats mentioned above). The only 'consequence' of a customer choosing to do this is that should they do so and then subsequently wish to return to MM we may, depending on specific circumstances, decline to offer service based on having tried to do so previously and not been able to meet customer expectations, or to offer service but without the normal right to terminate their contract mid term and be refunded for the remaining unused portion of that contact.

The reason why we encourage users to pay yearly in advance, by making the cost cheaper if they do, is because such payment reduces admin costs and improves cash flow for the business. It is not so we can 'lock people in' for 12 months and then not have to worry about the quality of service we are providing for that period.

[Zurich-Kabel-Tv]

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