Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

On the thread about Multimax' Refund Policy, I mainly commented on what I do know about (ie Contacts ) rather than confusing the issue on areas where I was myself unsure. However the suggestion was made by MM that customers could use dongles and mobile phones for the last few weeks of their holidays. Even leaving out the issue of fair treatment of the customer , this seemed to me unreasonable , but there may be aspects I have missed or am out of date on, so I would be grateful for comments from experts on the following:

1, Dongle: I did try this some time ago , and it was certainly very convenient, not least that you had relative independence from ISPs such as Mulitmax and their conditions, and it was pay as you go, and you only paid for what you used, not other people's heavier usage. However at that time it was so unreliable that is risked loss of money through cutting off service when in contact with my Bank etc. Also though personally I am not that very worried about TV (in fact is wasn't available here at that time) I do like to be able to listen to BBC radio and it was stuttered so much , it was impossible to listen.

2. Mobile Phone: I have very mild arthritis in my wrists and shoulders (not the same as the worst form in my legs for anyone who follows me) , but I am also a trained touch typist, and one I got used to the different touch and not to hit the control key instead of caps) and bought a typist chair I can type quickly and easily. By contrast using a mobile phone is going back to the dark ages for me, it is impossible for me to touch type on it, so I am slowed down considerably. Ok for a message saying "CU at 2" or whatever but not for complicated financial transactions and certainly not what I would want if I was in the throes of moving house. Although my eyesight (DV, inshallah) is good, particularly short distance, I also find long term working on a mobile causes strain. And I cant move around doing housework or whatever while carrying the phone with earphones to listen to the radio!

I look forward to comment/suggestions. Particularly bearing in mind that Internet will also be required at "the other end" and a mobile phone might be indispensable.

FIrstly there are different physical devices that you can use to get internet via mobile phone networks.

Smartphone

If you have a smartphone (android or apple iOS) then you can use this to get internet via the mobile phone networks, not JUST for the phone itself but than can also be used to provided it simultaneously to multiple other devices that have wifi. You get a sim card with a 'data package' from the mobile phone company put it into the smart phone , turn on 'mobile hotspot' on the phone and the phone will tell you the 'name' of the hotspot and the password needed for other devices to connect to it. You then go to your laptop (or any other device with wifi like tablet or whatever) and turn on wifi on the laptop - search for wifi networks - find the one that matches the name your mobile phone gave you when you turned on 'mobile hotspot' and enter the password also give by phone and bingo you now have internet access on the phone AND the laptop. What you can not do with this kind of set up is connect a computer / device that does not have wifi and only has an 'Ethernet' port suitable for plugging a wired connection in.

'Dongle'

This typically is a relatively small device, similar to a 'memory stick', that has a USB port and a 'slot' where you put in a mobile phone sim card. You get a sim card with a 'data package' from the mobile phone company put it into the dongle. You then plug the dongle into a USB port on your laptop or desktop computer and install some software (so if you are using an non windows machine like apple or one running linux you need to make sure there is software for the machine you wish to use it in). You then use the installed software to connect to the internet , typically having to enter the sim card 'pin code' for access and bingo you now have internet access on on this laptop and only this laptop. If the laptop has wifi you can then share this singular access to other devices but this is quite complicated to set up and do and so is not in the scope fo this guide. If the laptop has an Ethernet port you plug a cable from that into a 'wifi router' and share the singular access on the laptop with other devices both wired and wifi but again this is quite complicated to set up.


'MiFi device'

This is a small battery powered portable device that in essence works the same as using the 'mobile hotspot' function of a smartphone as detailed above. You get a sim card with a 'data package' from the mobile phone company put it into the mifi device. It provides the same functionality as the mobile phone 'hotspot' does and has the same limitations (can not connect a device that does not itself have wifi , like a desktop computer that only has an Ethernet port for wired connection.


3G router

This would be a router like the one you probably already have in your house, that plugs into the mains (ie it is not portable) that either allows you to plug a mobile phone sim into it directly or has a USB port on it into which you can plug a 3G dongle (see above). Once the sim / dongle is plugged into the router and it is set up you can then connect any wifi devices to it as well as any wired ones , just as you do with a 'normal router'.

I will try and carry on with this 'guide to 3G internet access' and cover your questions in points 1 and 2 of your post when I get a chance.

I am afraid before I can go on with trying my best to write as neutral and informative guide as I can for your and other people that maybe and hopefully is of use and benefit RR I am afraid I am going to have to deal with some of your misconceptions and what feels to me to be your 'dig' at MM, which is based on and underpinned by those very misconceptions

Having written the bulk of it and now coming back to review it I have to say I am truly impressed at just how many misconceptions you have managed to pack in to so few words.

Ragged Robin wrote: not least that you had relative independence from ISPs such as Mulitmax and their conditions, and it was pay as you go, and you only paid for what you used, not other people's heavier usage.

Misconception 1- Mobile internet is 'pay as you go' and the implication that internet from companies like MM is not.

You can buy internet access (and phone minutes and sms messages) from Turkcell and Telsim on a monthly basis , either 'pre paid' or 'post paid' OR you can buy such on a term contract (12 months). Buying on a 12 month term contract is cheaper per month than buying per month. See here for example Red Bronze on a 12 month contract is 100TL per month. The price of Red Bronze NOT on a 12 month contract is 150TL per month
You can buy internet access from MM and companies like them (pre paid only) on a term contract of 12 months or you can pay monthly (with multimax you can only pay monthly after an initial 6 months term contract or more - have to make those 'conditions' clear and plain) with other companies you can do so from day one. Paying for 12 months is cheaper per month than paying per month.

Misconception 2 - MM has 'conditions' and the implication that mobile phone companies do not.

If you choose to get a mobile phone service and choose to get the 50% cheaper option of getting in on a 12 month contract, you simply have NO option to just decide you want to terminate that contract early. You are legally committed and locked in to that 12 month term. There may be an option to PAY to terminate your contract early at some punitive amount less that the full cost of the contract over its entire term but there is just no option to simply decide 'nah I do not want this any more', so the issue of conditions attached to ending your contract early does not apply because you can not do that unconditionally in any case. Yes you could take out a 12 month contract with Telsim and just stop paying them after say 3 months, for any reason, but even ignoring the morality of that, Telsim as part of signing up for such a contract know who you are, what your bank is and probably what your CC details are. What is more, unlike MM, if you are not a citizen but say an expat or a student the chances are they will not even give you a 12 month contract unless it is 'guaranteed' by a TRNC kimlik card holder. Telsim does and has taken people to court for breaching their term contracts by stopping to pay before the end of the term. By comparison MM has never taken anyone to court for not meeting their contractual obligation to return our equipment when they stop service from us, despite an alarmingly high number of people doing that.

Whilst we, and when I say we I actually mean I, are on the subject of comparisons between companies like MM and companies like Telsim I would challenge you to find on their website the terms and conditions for terminating a 12 month contract with them before the end of the term and in English. MM has been described by you RR as a " large and successful company". MM operates only in the TRNC with a population of around 300k ? and even then only in relatively small geographical areas in a highly competitive market with multiple competing companies in the same market. KKTC Telsim operates across the whole of the trnc and has a single competitor and is part of the Vodafone Group which operates world wide had 2016 revenues of £41 billion (yes billion) and assets of around £133 billion. So 'large and successful' is comparative, Compared to the likes of Telsim , MM is not even a minnow, more like plankton to their blue whale. Yet which one does offer their customers an option to end a term contract early for any reason and which one does not ? Which one really has clearer and easily found information, in English, about their 'terms and conditions'. For that matter which one takes the time and effort to communicate and engage with it's customers directly on fora like this one let alone at a level of 'seniority' comparable to Kemal or a level of direct day to day operation as myself ?

So sorry for going on so much but hopefully the above gives you some idea why for me the implication that you can get service from a company like Telsim 'without conditions' and from MM it is 'with conditions' is not just harsh, but feels more like it has come from some kind of alternate reality entirely.

Misconception 3 - you only paid for what you used

It is true that with mobile the payment model is based on 'how much data you use', where as with MM and companies like MM it is flat rate fixed fee regardless of how much you use. In analogy terms it is like water rates vs water metering with no standing charge. However I would argue that actually it is closer to water rates vs having water delivered via 19ltr bottles, than rates vs meter. With 'bottle delivery' you 'pay only for what you use' and with rates you pay a fixed amount regardless of usage, but even for all but the very lightest of water users 'bottle delivery' is way more expensive than water rates. With Turkcell (I have picked on Telsim enough and their pricing on just data is clearer) 4GB (giga bytes) of data costs 44TL per month if you commit to a 12 month term contract or 65TL if you pay monthly. Even on a 4Mb/s service (4 mega bits per second) and assuming the connection is operating at that speed you could 'consume' that 4GB of data for the entire month in just 2 and a half hours. At 10Mb/s you could consume it in 55 minutes - that is your whole months worth gone in 55 minutes. At 20Mb/s gone in less than 30 minutes. So you really need to be a very very low user before 'paying only for what you use' via a mobile based service is more cost effective than paying a 'flat fee' with a company like MM. Forget watching video for example. I am not just talking about the occasional episode of east enders now and then, even going a bit heavy on youtube clips and all those Facebook embedded cute videos of cats in costumes riding around on robotic vacuum cleaners is likely to see you using up all your months 'water' way before the month is up, leaving you to have to order more 19litre bottles. A bit of radio now and then, yeah you could probably manage that if you are careful and do not over do it. Windows and android updates - whoa there cowboy - watch out, my last android update was over 2GB though admittedly that is the largest one I have received to date. Want to buy and download a current PC game onto your laptop - anywhere from 2GB to 40GB. In reality if you really are a 'low usage' internet user and are on a very tight budget and want to be able to do emails, some online banking and maybe a bit of text only skyping with far flung friends and family and you are blessed enough to have a phone land line, then your best bet would be to look at getting yourself a dial up modem and service, rather than mobile based internet in my opinion.

Now all is this is starting to sound like 'mobile internet' is good for nothing. Far from it, mobile internet is great, I myself pay for it for my partners phone. The clue as to its value and usefulness really is in the name - mobile internet and used in conjunction with a home internet connection it truly is wonderful and useful and worth paying for in my opinion. Another thing it is really useful for I would suggest is as a temporary 3 week, or even one week, stop gap solution if you need internet access for important 'priority' things (and not just on the phone itself but also on your laptop or even desktop if it has wifi) like important emails, and banking and flight ticket booking and checking and boarding pass receiving and such like. for that it is a great solution - just don't go getting the 12 month term contract because its cheaper per month, thinking you can just end that term early with no consequence. Of course if for you 'priority' things include watching streamed TV, then I have to admit, no its not much use as a week or 3 week 'stop gap' solution. I also feel compelled to point out that doing you 'internet banking' on your laptop that in turn is connected to the internet via your mobile phone sharing it's 3G internet connection as a 'hotspot' is no less or more secure than doing so on your laptop connected to a wifi router on MM or similar companies internet connection.

Misconception 4 - not other people's heavier usage

This idea that as a 'light user' on a service like MM's, you are subsiding the usage of other customers who usage is heavier than yours is probably your biggest misconception of all. The cost of the infrastructure necessary to be able to deliver internet to your house or to a given area up to a given total maximum capacity is a fixed cost not related to your total over all usage or the total over all usage of those in that area. This is difficult to explain and I am going to fall back on an analogy again. Let's imagine your house is not connected yet to the road system. The cost of building the road to your house is the same regardless of if you make one journey a week using that road or you drive up and down it non stop 18 hours a day. With an 'internet road' there is a cost to maintaining the 'road' as well as building it in the first place but that cost, unlike with real roads, is NOT dependent on how much it is used. So let's now imagine your are on estate of 50 people, that is not connected and needs a road built. Still a fixed cost regardless of usage. Where road usage does impact on cost is when the road reaches it's maximum capacity and thus needs to be widened. So imagine a person on this 50 person estate , who drives along the road , up and down, up and down for up to 14 hours a day BUT only does so when the road is not busy or congested. If they do have to use it when it is heavily congested they do so on a push bike. They are a heavy road user but in terms of how their 'heavy' usage impacts the need to increase the capacity of the road and the cost involved in that, their impact is less than that of another person on the estate who only uses the road a little in terms of time but always does so at the busiest and most congested times of the day and would never do so on a push bike but always does so in their large sports utility vehicle.

Light internet users, in terms of the total volumes of data they download or upload do not subsidise heavy internet users. Users in peak times are subsidised by users in 'off peak times'. Or in analogy terms the person who uses the road only a little in terms of total time using it but always does so at the worst of 'rush hour' periods and always in a big vehicle is actually subsidised by the person that uses the road for hours and hours at end but always in periods of no congestion and when they really have to use it in rush hour they use a bike and not a great big vehicle. Now of course it is possible to be both a heavy road user in terms of total time (internet user in terms of volume of data) AND a heavy user of it at rush hour (peak times) but in terms of the cost impact on the need to increase the capacity of the road is ONLY the rush hour (peak time) usage that matters. I am a classic example of a 'heavy user' in terms of total volumes I download, I can 'consume' 100's of GB of data per month but I also keep my peak time usage to a minimum possible, consciously and pro actively, and have done for years now because I understand the economics of internet provision which itself took me years to understand to the level I do today. This is akin to trying, where ever possible, to avoid making journeys in rush hour and if you have to doing so in a vehicle that adds as least to that congestion as possible, which is also something I do.

I am lucky with my internet, I am very close to a base station with clear line of sight to it in an area that is not densely packed with 'polluting' and competing wifi based services. What is more I know how to get the very most out of my internet connection, in terms of the tools I use to download and the places I download from. I can and often do download at speeds from between 20 and 40mb/s, which in analogy terms is like driving a truly massive vehicle - lets say a huge coach. But I do NOT do this in peak times (rush hour). I schedule such usage in such a 'big vehicle' for those time when the road is not congested. Of course I do send emails in peak times and web browse and skype but these are like using the road in a dinky toy car in terms of contribution to the congestion. I also do stream TV during these times, which is like say driving in my mid sized hatchback, but I also try and download as much content as I can (using my massive coach) in off peak times to be watched in 'peak times'. Yes this requires a bit of planning and thinking ahead but it is worth it not least because downloaded content NEVER buffers or breaks up and that is a 'real' never, not a 'never' that some IPTV streaming services claim about their service, and once downloaded can even be watched if I loose my internet connection entirely. Even if I loose power to my house I can still watch something on my laptop for as long as the battery last.

Now with MM if I were to just drive my massive coach at the busiest of rush hour regardless (download at 20 to 40 Mb/s in peak hours) , after a short time MM would make me get out of my massive coach (20 to 40 Mb/s) and drive instead in a mid sized hatchback (5Mb/s). If I continued to drive that constantly in peak hours I may even eventually be forced to get out of that and drive in a 2 seat smart car (2,5Mb/s). This would be MM's 'traffic management policy' and it is what makes MM different from other providers. Other providers only allow you to drive in a mid sized hatchback (4Mb/s) ALL the time, even when the road is not congested at all and you could be driving a much bigger vehicle without having ANY impact on the cost of providing the road or it's usage by other people. What is more they price their 'tiers' of their service based on this , charging X TL to be limited to a 2 seat smart car (2Mb/s) all the time, peak and off peak, and X+Y TL to be limited to a mid sized hatchback (4Mb/s) all the time. MM tiers it's offering based on how long in peak times you drive in your 'massive coach' (speeds of up to even 40Mb/s) before we make you move to smaller vehicle, and how small the vehicle that we move you to is. The reason why we do this is because it much more closely matches how usage actually affects cost of provision and it allows our uses to drive as big and fat vehicle as is possible, which is based on how close they are to BS etc etc, in those times when such usage does NOT affect others and the cost of provision of the road (service). Now certainly for some people and some types of usage a connection that never goes faster than 2Mb/s or 4Mb/s is more than sufficient. Still nice i think to have one that can go at faster speeds, within the limits of how such affects congestion (and therefore cost of provision) and other users, if it is not that different in price.

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Oh well looks like it has been another 'all nighter'. It is funny how these things can take on a life of their own. I started with my first post in this thread with the objective of trying to write as good a 'guide' to 3G based internet as I could. Clearly I have veered of the course a bit but I will get back on course from now on or at least try to and address more of stuff raised in your original post RR. This feels a bit like when I got involved helping out with the production of Kad's radio plays. Quite a lot of time and work but with the lingering question in your mind of 'will anyone actually listen to the play once it is finished'. Will anyone even read this ? I do not know really but to anyone who has made it this fat, well done and thanks and goodnight.

So, Erol, if I understand all this correctly:

I'm to go to Turkcell and buy a bike so that I can buy 19l bottles of water but I can't do that if I want to watch telly on my laptop - unless it's at 3.00am.

That it more or less???

Mowgli597 wrote:That it more or less???

There is nothing quite like a bit of humour. I am tempted to say your post was indeed nothing like a bit of humour

Thanks for the detailed explanation Erol. I did have some questions as to how it all worked, your post has now made it very clear to me and I now understand how to best use my internet connection in the TRNC. I am with a provider that only allows me upto 4Mb/s, so always running into problems watching internet TV from 7pm until 11pm ( when the road gets busy ). The supplier then kicks me off my bike by reducing service to below 2Mb/s, and I start walking around pulling my hair out (what's left of it). So, from here on I will plan ahead and download in the mornings to watch what I want in the evenings.

I used to use a dongle to get internet on my laptop for years, up until just two years ago. I was totally happy with doing so, using it for my work: uploading/ downloading files via the internet , sending / receiving emails, Skype messaging and also video calling sometimes. It worked for me and as I did not use internet TV at the time I only needed to drink 19lts of bottled water every two weeks or so. I did this for upto 3 months at a time, no issues, it did the job.

My 4Mb/s contract costs probably the same, if not more, than what others are getting for 20Mb/s. At least many can ride a bike when I am left no option but to walk slowly.

Times are continually changing and I remain patient in the hope that things will improve where I live in the TRNC.

Thanks Erol, good detailed post's. Maybe we should have all stuck to 9.6 baud modems and then there would have been no more winging and moaning about speeds - remember when BT told everyone that 9.6 was the fastest you could possibly get across copper wire? Problem seems to be that technology has moved on faster than people's ability to understand it - so it is always the provider who is at fault and never the subscriber.

It's not that long ago that here in the TRNC you could only communicate effectively via fax and that web sites for local businesses were just a pipe dream - my how things have come on in the last 17 years and when you consider that the WWW only really came into being in 1980 and I have kids older than that, who now have kids that know more about it than I do, I feel very lucky to be able to have this wonderful knowledge bank at my fingertips. I remember leaving the UK in 2007, having bought the most up to date mobile I could get my hands on and then paying an extortionate amount to have it unlocked to take anyones SIM, all so that we could have contact via Internet as we travelled across Europe. We lost Internet contact as soon as we left the UK and the first place, after 12 days of planes, trains, taxis, buses, bikes and ferries that we managed to get back in Internet contact again was TRNC - Vodaphone all the way!!!!

But I do hate "Smart" phones, curse of the world things that have killed communications in all walks of life and become so important, that to not have one labels you as a luddite without hope - lol. Really all we have to do is think before we act and if we don't know "ASK" then it becomes a lot easier.

9.6 baud? That's handwriting speed! Even teleprinters flew along at 50 baud - if you were really keen you might even get up to 75 or with American kit 110!

Spent many a night on shift in the Comcen being lulled to sleep by test relays churning out "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog 1234567890". Happy days (especially since it was in Hong Kong )

Waddo. I think you meant 9.6kBaud ! But even that was fast - they started at 300 in the olden days!

Thank you for those long and detailed replies Erol.

1,I started the thread because I was very doubtful about MMs contention that for those wanting to cancel their contract but needing their internet up to the last day, there were valid alternatives for a short period. It seemed to me that the dongle route and the mobile phone route both involved extra expensive time and effort at a time when they were already overstretched, and the technology involved would be beyond me, and many others, who are not scientifically gifted. I was not looking for a long term transfer from conventional ISP at this time, only to be fair to Multimax because of my lack of knowledge, and to provide me with an short term alternative, if and/or when, I need to return to the UK. I regret to to tell you that you have actually convinced me that the altenatives suggested by MM far from being easy would be extemely difficult for the non technie, and not really acceptable.
I did explain that I had already tried a dongle, and although I found it cheaper, decided the disadvantages outweighted the advantages, As that was a while back I thought perhaps things had chaged - it seems they have for the worse since my recollection was that haveing bought the little gadget itself I could buy a months' worth if internet connection from a convenient supermarket. register the number by phone and when I wanted to stop, I just did not buy the next, A TRNC driving licence was accepted as aproof of identity. The only problem with the system was that there appeared to be inadquate speed and/or bandwidth for even my small needs.

I have a Galaxy mobile and I do not want , and cannot afford, to buy anything even more complicated.

2. I note your comments re usage. However I would point out that in my case, which I accept is not particularly usual among the expats here, I permanently drive (both in fact and in your analogy ) a rather elderly low cc hatchback. However in both cases I have no option but to use both in middle to high peak, times because I need to be doing other things during daylight hours. I think in fact I use less both far less than most people - so little that you are probably unable to contemplate it. It still seems unfair that I have to pay as much as people who put far more weight and wear on the surface and cause far more pollution !

3. On your point about MM being a "large and successful company" , I assume you would not argue that it is not successful in view of the evidence to the contrary. On the question of size it is also a matter of comparison with other companies operating in the TRNC. But mainly it is a matter of what is called "Equity" in law which says in the event of the responsibility for ensuring that contract terms are clear and unambiguous lies with the party who imposes the terms (MM) and that in a dispute any ambiguity will be resolved in favour of the party who set the terms, particularly if the are more "powerful" which would be the case of MM with access to in house accounting and legal staff against an impoverished pensioner, particularly where health issues w ere concerned. That is why I have suggested MM check carefully that their conditions and advertising reflect accurately their actual intentions. It is not easy -in the days when I could earn a decent living it kept me awake many nights! But then in those days I could walk - and ride a bicycle," and even a horse!

Ragged Robin wrote:I regret to to tell you that you have actually convinced me that the altenatives suggested by MM far from being easy would be extemely difficult for the non technie, and not really acceptable.

It is not possible to have internet access with no effort what so ever, be that 'temporary internet' or otherwise. Nor is it possible to have such at no cost what so ever, outside of using a friends existing connection or a public free wifi hotspot such as found in some bars, restaurants and cafes, along with the effort needed to go to such places in order to have internet access. There will always be some effort and costs involved on the part of the person who want's internet access.

Clearly you are of the opinion that in this case the suggestion that using a mobile phone based 3G service as a temporary alternative is neither reasonable or unacceptable. I am afraid I am remain of a different opinion and guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point. I can say with all and total honestly that if in a hypothetical scenario where my Mother, who I can assure you is no 'technical guru', was living in the TRNC and I was living in the UK and she contacted me and said "Hi Erol, I have a bit of a problem, I am leaving Cyprus and in order to get a refund from my internet company here I have to stop service with them 3 weeks before I leave and I need internet access pas that point, what can I do ?", my reply would be "get a one month of 3G mobile based internet" and help her from there (as I offered to help WND btw when I suggested it to them).

I do also have to say I find your post some what contradictory as well, at least as far as I am reading and understanding it. You say the technology involved in getting a 3G based internet service would be beyond you and also say "I had already tried a dongle" ?

Ragged Robin wrote: As that was a while back I thought perhaps things had chaged - it seems they have for the worse since my recollection was that haveing bought the little gadget itself I could buy a months' worth if internet connection from a convenient supermarket. register the number by phone and when I wanted to stop, I just did not buy the next,

Well it would seem that despite my efforts to write as clear a 'guide' as possible, I have only seemed to have misled you even further. On the basis that you have a "Galaxy mobile" you can just buy a month's worth of internet connection and without even needing to purchase a dongle at all and just not buy any more after that. If you were to choose to enter into a 12 month contract for such internet access , in order to get a cheaper price per month for that access, then you could not just decide to stop paying for it after one month without consequence. The choice is pay more per month and be free to stop on a monthly basis, or pay less per month and not be free to stop on a monthly basis, an option and choice that is also open to MM customers who have had 6 months of more of continued service btw. What is more in theory at least you do not even need to go to a supermarket or elsewhere to buy such access. You could just text from your Galaxy phone a 'code' like '500' to a specific pre defined number like '1111' to buy 500MB of monthly internet access at a cost of 22TL. So yes a direct monetary cost there but I do have to wonder how low that cost would have to be before you considered it a 'reasonable alternative' ? You would also need to go to the 'effort' of learning how to 'turn on' such access on the phone and if you wanted to share such access with other things, like say a laptop you would also have to go to the 'effort' of learning how to do that. There is also a chance that having bought the service, by texting, that when you turn it on on the phone it did not work and then you would have to go to the effort of calling the mobile company for help or going to a supermarket that has one of 'phone booths' to get that sorted out. Finally there is a chance that having bought such access and turned it on on your phone it did not work very well, which is something I will address in 'general guide' should I get the time and motivation to continue with it.

Ragged Robin wrote: A TRNC driving licence was accepted as aproof of identity.

Again despite my best efforts I seem to have only created more confusion here rather than less. The mobile phone companies are required by law to know who is using a given mobile sim. To meet this legal requirement they will accept things like a driving license. In fact they will also accept a text from said sim simply stating a name and a passport number, even though these details could easily be incorrect or false.
If you wish to sign up to a 12 month contract with them, in order to benefit from a cheaper cost for service compared with buying the same service on a monthly 'pas as go' basis, then I think you will find that they will not normally do this for a non citizen unless it is also 'guaranteed' by such. The reason for this is not a 'legal requirement' placed on them by government. The reason is that there is chance that a non citizen could sign up for such a service, get the benefit of the cheaper price and after a month simply leave the country, with the mobile phone company having no realistic means of pursuing the person for the remaining 11 months of contracted for but yet unpaid service. Thus the need, from the mobile phone companies perspective, for a citizen 'guarantor'. Hopefully this is a bit clearer to you now ?

Ragged Robin wrote: The only problem with the system was that there appeared to be inadquate speed and/or bandwidth for even my small needs.

This is a potential issue and one that I will try and address if and when I get back to writing the 'general guide' that I started in my intial post to this thread.

Ragged Robin wrote: It still seems unfair that I have to pay as much as people who put far more weight and wear on the surface and cause far more pollution !

I do understand that this is 'counter intuitive' but it is the case none the less. Like I say it took me years to come to understand this, not I might add, years of working inside the internet industry, but some what ironically, years in a 'previous life' 'working' as an unpaid advocate for internet consumers in the UK. It was maybe somewhat over optimistic of me to think I could get these ideas that took me years to 'coalesce' in my own head across to others in a single post. I can only re iterate that despite how it may feel the reality is the degree to which one person's internet usage is 'subsidised' by another persons is NOT related to how much or little they may use the internet in total but is only related to how much or little they may use it relative to another person at peak times. This is akin to saying the degree to which one person's driving contributes to congestion on the roads vs another person's usage is not related to how much time each spends driving in total but only how much they do so in rush hour.

Ragged Robin wrote:so little that you are probably unable to contemplate it

If you usage is as little as you imagine it to be and if you already have a land line phone and are paying for that, then in terms of trying to reduce your costs you really should consider 'dial up' access as an option. Yes some things will be impossible on such a connection (like streaming video) and others may take longer , like web sites take longer to load, emails take longer to download but it is a potentially viable option by which you might be able to significantly reduce your costs. However if your usage involves 'video' to any degree I can tell you that your usage will not be in say the bottom 10-15% of users on average, possibly more. That figure is 'plucked from thin air' to a degree but what I am trying to say is there are internet users who just do not use 'video over internet' at all and their usage in total volume terms will be lower than a user who does use 'video over the internet' even extremely infrequently, all other things being equal. How much 'volume' different activities on the internet and the scale of difference between such uses is also not obvious or intuitive thing and is another aspect I hope to cover in the 'general guide' if and when I ever write it.

Mowgli597, Ooops, missed off the "k" - twice - that would have meant a failure on the monthly manips test and more OTT for me. The Siemens T150 was the last teleprinter I used and that was a demon for speed - but then they have gone as well, all down to the bottom of the Falkland Sound I am happy to say. They tell me that Hong Kong was a wonderful posting but I never got there - apart from R&R from Borneo once, my how the time fly's! So were you a Peanut or a Nail Bender then??

waddo wrote:So were you a Peanut or a Nail Bender then??

A Pongo Fairy, for my sins

(And they were many out there, believe me, until SWMBO (who was also working in the Comcen) and I became Mr and Mrs

No shame in that matey, a grand bunch of guys. I served with 266 - twice although many, many years apart and with 244 as well a few times - always happy. Take care out there.