To Slap or Not??????????????///

[topten]

Should corporal punishment return to schools, have the abolitionists created an uncontrollable youth. One that as no respect for authority or the boundaries of right and wrong? Is the future going to be run by adults that have no education or moral standards. The reality TV programs show many of these children flout the law knowing that little can be done by parents or police.
Should parents/teachers be allowed to punish unruly children 11years old and above?????????????/

[WotNoDeeds]

YES and also bring back national service.

[ardstrawray]

YES and also bring back national service.

No, but let the army run civi prisons.

[Hedge-fund]

Kids are by and large polite, well behaved and law abiding.

Youth crime has fallen since smartphones came along (they are less bored). More CCTV & better theft protection has also helped.

A loss of control in the classroom would normally indicate to me a poor teacher or school.

If anyone hit my kid I would hit them.

[jofra]

"My country, right or wrong...."

[ttoli]

Hedge Fund

Youth crime has fallen since smartphones came along (they are less bored). More CCTV & better theft protection has also helped.

I beg to differ, since Smartphones came along street crime has actually increased in the UK ( what it's classified as on crime statistics dependant on the latest ever changing mandates from Senior management), before I left the UK and the Job our Borough acheived a 10% reduction in street robberies simply by re classifying such incidents to suit

But yes to a certain degree CCTV , facial recognition cameras etc do help with the clean up rate, though they don't deter it .

I was at Secondary school 1976-1991 and the ultimate deterrent was a cane across the knuckles from the headmaster or a studded football boot across the A !!! from the PE teacher, guess which teachers classes were never disprupted ?

[brian24001]

3 indictable strikes, off to the gallows, no appeal, hang within the hour, maybe give the family time to pop along to watch, but apply a cost if a delay results.

Problem yok!

I once suggested this (albeit a little, not too much mind, tongue in cheek) to a bunch of legal advisers in the UK court system.

You can all argue about the outcome, I'll maybe post it in a week or so.

[Philoz]

And while we are at it,anyone who uses 20 question marks (when one would do fine) in the subject line of their posts should be flogged

[rocking]

I am A great believer in a whack or two, I had a few in my time. If I was ever kept in school for something I did wrong, told my parents then I had another punishment. How can teachers control children In schools when parents rush up for a punch up if their little darlings have been punished for something. Knives pulled in class, knuckdusters no hope now. Yes I do believe in national service, bring it on, but will never happen.

[tomsteel]

Not a slapping issue, but as it has been raised on this post I will continue with it. Dare I suggest, after 40 years in HMF, reintroducing National Service (NS) will have at least 2 major effects on those currently serving. Firstly, there will be a further lowering of morale of the training staff as these ill-disciplined, poorly motivated and poorly educated youngsters are expected to reach the high standards expected in the time allocated and at the budget cost imposed by the MoD. Secondly, there will be a massive increase in the need for military correction centres, at a further real cost to the budget, as their ill-discipline, absence, attitude and refusal to obey orders will be punished. I joined in '62 as the last of the NS were getting ready for discharge. They did not want to be there, had an appalling attitude to those who did and those responsible for their last few weeks/months of service. Finally, trained personnel expect to be able to trust their fellow colleagues with their lives. Those advocating NS, I beg the question, would you?

[topten]

And while we are at it,anyone who uses 20 question marks (when one would do fine) in the subject line of their posts should be flogged

Same goes for someone who uses a bloody stupid Avatar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hedge-fund]

I beg to differ, since Smartphones came along street crime has actually increased in the UK ( what it's classified as on crime statistics dependant on the latest ever changing mandates from Senior management), before I left the UK and the Job our Borough acheived a 10% reduction in street robberies simply by re classifying such incidents to suit

But yes to a certain degree CCTV , facial recognition cameras etc do help with the clean up rate, though they don't deter it .

I was at Secondary school 1976-1991 and the ultimate deterrent was a cane across the knuckles from the headmaster or a studded football boot across the A !!! from the PE teacher, guess which teachers classes were never disprupted ?

Source

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/ ... es-experts

[Hedge-fund]

I am A great believer in a whack or two, I had a few in my time. If I was ever kept in school for something I did wrong, told my parents then I had another punishment. How can teachers control children In schools when parents rush up for a punch up if their little darlings have been punished for something. Knives pulled in class, knuckdusters no hope now. Yes I do believe in national service, bring it on, but will never happen.

You are familiar with being hit by a teacher so think it is normal - it's not. You say you got hit more than once so it obviously didn't work as a deterrent.

Society has moved on from hitting children. Punishment does not have to include violence.

[jazzdolly]

I'll be the first to admit I've clipped my teenager round the ear when he gets out of line!!...but that's my son.

I'm a teacher and wouldn't DREAM of doing this to someone else's child.
It's not actually that effective in a professional capacity. The children lose respect for you, which defeats the object does it not?

A quick tongue and sharp wit ALWAYS defeats any teenage pupil. They can't stand being 'roasted!!!'

[waddo]

Yes! Bring back the National Service - I think its a great idea and the first people who are brought in should be from the general pool of all ages of all people who have never yet served in the HM Forces at all. Then give it a year and that will be the end of that yet again. Why oh why do normal sane people think that the National Service is the answer to everything - maybe because it would take the onus of responsibility away from normal people and give them something to blame? Wrap up all the kids in cotton wool, make sure they stay at home till age 30, don't let them go out to work, buy them anything they want, never shout at them or even raise a hand to them - then all kids will be the same and the world will trundle on in the same way it is now.

Get real out there, take responsibility, own your own problems and sort them out yourselves. Rant over - sorry if I have upset people - well not really.

[Keithcaley]

Waddo,

I'd imagine that the various branches of the Armed Services are really enthusiastic about the prospect of being lumbered with a load of un-motivated idle louts, lacking any sort of self-discipline or respect for others...

[elizabeth]

Perhaps if parents started being parents, instead of their childrens' friend, during the formative years and taught respect, consideration and self control the world might be a better place.

[harita]

I was at Secondary school 1976-1991 and the ultimate deterrent was a cane across the knuckles from the headmaster or a studded football boot across the A !!! from the PE teacher, guess which teachers classes were never disprupted ?

1976-1991 .. You must have enjoyed it ..

[topten]

I have brought this back to run along side the post "what is wrong with the UK" I feel this is what is wrong with the youth today. Teachers have no deterrent for unruly behaviour hence the kids do what they damn well like, teacher " You will be expelled!" pupil " Great"

[tomsteel]

But topten, what benefit is your re-introduction of this theme actually going to achieve apart from the venting of spleens? I am all for forums and the right to express an opinion, but this topic has been done to death before and no sensible outcome was achieved the 1st time.

[jacob]

I hate kids so give em a damned good thrashing is what I say

I blame the parents for their offsprings behaviour.

[Lozzycroft]

I have 2 young kids, 5 &10.
Both are polite, respectful and well behaved. I've never had to smack them for them to turn out the way they have but I do remove privileges if they ever cross the line of what they know to be acceptable.
Under no circumstances would I ever be happy for anyone to lay a hand on my kids!!! If they act up, I will be the first to discipline them but that is my job, not a teacher etc!

[jofra]

I love kids.......
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......, boiled, fried, roasted - flavour is marvellous.....

[jacob]

[Groucho]

I love kids.......
......, boiled, fried, roasted - flavour is marvellous.....

Yeah, goat curry - marvellous...

As for should we slap - I suggest we ask Jeremy Clarkson - see what happens when you slap colleagues...

[tutor4u]

Perhaps if parents started being parents, instead of their childrens' friend, during the formative years and taught respect, consideration and self control the world might be a better place.

Elizabeth is correct, but UK society has changed with the infusion of other nationalities. The methods that were used to control a class no longer exist, thank goodness. Class control is not easy for some teachers to learn , indeed some never master it. The only real answer is good teachers and currently the education for a PGCE (Post Grad Cert Ed) is of lttle use to a teacher in the first year as a NQT (Newly Qualified Teacher). Ask any teacher in an inner city school "how do you survive"? " , they just leave the profession.

http://www.independent.co.uk › News › Education
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/.../More-40- ... n-12-month...
http://www.theguardian.com › Education › Teaching

[TRNCVaughan]

bring back capital punishment for unruly kids.

[Johnny Lee]

Yes, the Cat O nine tails or a big stick with a rusty nail in the end. See my last posting on Whats Happening To The UK

[jofra]

As a sort of adjunct to this theme - When I first started work, it was the custom and practice that you addressed your boss(es) - often, even your immediate superior - as "Mr. surname" - no christian name. You afforded them respect because (or on the usually justified premise that) they had earned that respect by earning that superior position.
In more recent years, it seems that "bosses/superiors" are expected to be everybody's friend (and frequently have not "earned" that position through genuine work experience), so first-names are mandatory. In the latter years of my employment, through habit (and belief) I continued the former practice as (to me) a matter of courtesy. Nevertheless, in one case, because I failed to use first name, I was threatened with a charge of insubordination! As it so happened, the "superior" in question was one of the most incompetent and unsuitable managers that our company ever had - and a year or so later very suddenly departed...
"Respect" has been devalued, and unfortunately, nowadays, behaviour is not guided or governed by genuine respect (earned respect) - but by what should be described as fear....
"You're disrespecting me" = you don't fear me enough......

[Ragged Robin]

I think the post by Joffra is very interesting and may well illuminate the problem: lack of respect as illustrated by the use of first names., not just in the workplace.

Send an email to any company (including one of complaint) and whereas in my youth the reply would have been to "Mr, Mrs, Miss or Ms" , if not indeed to "Sir" or "Madam", now you suddendly find yourself on first name terms with complete strangers who you will probably never even meet! The formality was NOT a matter of subservience - it was simply showing respect.

The same applies to parent/children and teacher/children relationships. Somewhere in the youth culture that developed in the 60s and 70s the idea of respect for one's "elders and betters" disappeared together with the concept that someone who had been around a bit longer might just happen to have more experience.

Added to this parents who had experienced post war austerity when they were children were tempted by the "you have never had it so good" society to spoil their own children with things they never had - result the children grew up expecting to get anything they wanted and this has now passed on even to the third and fourth generation.

My generation of children had to "work" (clean the car, mow the lawn, do the washing up") to earn pocket money. Todays children expect expensive goodies as of right, and it is not suprising perhaps that if they arent given them, they just take!