Changes ahead with new Regulations and Laws in Turkey

[Dalartokat]

For those interested and just for information.

The only part of the information that may interest some people is the changes to Driver Licence and Regulations, which is highlighted to click on for foreigners.


http://www.yellali.com/news/article/231 ... -in-turkey

[Groucho]

For those interested and just for information.

The only part of the information that may interest some people is the changes to Driver Licence and Regulations, which is highlighted to click on for foreigners.


http://www.yellali.com/news/article/231 ... -in-turkey

Yes and it's a bone of contention that we've been resident for over ten years and are still regarded as 'foreigners'... although we did apply for TRNC Driving Licences within a few weeks of living here.... I know it's not mainland Turkey but here in the TRNC it seems many folk choose not to apply for a local licence... which seems risky to me if only because when the sh1t hits the fan (that is when you are involved in a traffic accident with a local) you will be at fault if you don't have a TRNC licence and you have exceeded the period in question (i.e. 90 days here).

It's a big risk, gaol, deportation, massive fines?

[gilly123]

So will this apply here in N Cyprus as well?

[Groucho]

So will this apply here in N Cyprus as well?

It already does - what they are going for in mainland Turkey is somewhat more leeway - here it's 90 days {approx 3 months) there 6 months.

[Laura B]

But the difference now is in Turkey your UK licence will be cancelled by DVLA. Here you keep your UK licence. Also here it is a lot cheaper to change.

[Groucho]

But the difference now is in Turkey your UK licence will be cancelled by DVLA. Here you keep your UK licence. Also here it is a lot cheaper to change.

There are ways around the requirement to hand over your UK licence. e.g. come here get a TRNC licence then go to Turkey and surrender that one.

[Deniz1]

So if it happened here no more trips to the south for ex pats as you need a uk licence to get insurance

[waddo]

The reason you need a UK licence to go to the South is because you are an EU citizen and the RoC demands it.

It is a catch 22 situation as TC's are also EU citizen's but because they do not live in an EU country and can not gain an EU licence, they can travel on their TRNC (not Turkish) license.

Ex-pat's, who are EU citizens, are not TRNC citizens and have to use an EU licence. HOWEVER, if an Ex-Pat lives here full time their EU licence is invalid after 6 months anyway - so the EU licence that the RoC require you to produce is an illegal document - and they know it - but they insist on you having it.

The big nasty bit is that if an Ex-pat produces a TRNC licence in the RoC they will be told that the RoC do not recognize that license as being valid - if you are a TC then it is recognized but if you are an EU citizen then it is not.

To remain legal in both the TRNC and the RoC you should hold a TRNC licence and a RoC EU licence - now for the catch - you can only apply for and gain an RoC EU driving licence if you live there for six months!!! I have tried to gain an RoC EU driving licence and was quite happy to take a new driving test but am not able to because I do not live in the EU - YET!!!

Just one more thing that will have to change if there is any settlement.

[Groucho]

Waddo, Maybe we should all boycott the south until they say 'Fair dos - we need your money so we will recognise the TRNC driving licence as a valid document' - financial pressure is a big stick to wield.

[waddo]

Maybe but I think there are far more TC's who shop in the South and spend far more money than the EU Ex pats do. At the moment we are stuck between the EU and the RoC which are two different things entirely - the RoC (like the UK and every other EU nation) make up their own rules to suit themselves and there is little you can do about it. My question to Brussels was answered in this way - "Take up your problem with the Driving Licence authority in the RoC first and forward their replies to us for any action required". This I did some years ago only to get the response from Brussels that as I chose to live in "Occupied Territory" I would have to abide by the regulations laid down by the RoC regarding this! Great help that was but at least I spent some of the EU money on a wasted venture - lol.

Only hope is to wait and see if the North comes fully into the EU once the RoC turn down the latest settlement - the rest of the World want the North to be recognized and it beats me why they just don't come out and say "OH, THERE YOU ARE, WE CAN SEE YOU NOW"

[sophie]

Still begs the question "what happens if the proposed Referendum in the UK votes to come out of the EU" then we are between a rock and a hard place aren't we. Or are we? I'm getting confused with all the ins and outs!!

[waddo]

Now, you don't want to go there! Just think about it. Can a citizen of the USA go to the South having landed in an "Illegal" port in the North? If the answer is no then all current EU Ex Pat's would no longer be EU citizens and in the same boat as the USA citizen - this on the proviso that the UK is stupid enough to come out of the EU of course.

Right now, your best hope is that there is some kind of settlement and that the North becomes recognised and therefore a full member of the EU, then you can apply for EU (North Cyprus) citizenship and be totally legal wherever you go! Apart from back to the UK of course because if you are a EU citizen of Cyprus and the UK has left the EU you will probably have to apply for a visa to get back into the Non-EU UK - lol. Don't ask about passports whatever you do - that is going to be a nightmare if the UK leaves the EU.

[kerry 6138]

Hi Waddo presume your tongue is in your cheek the only way to lose UK citizenship is to renounce it personally, UK recognise dual nationality, if North becomes a part of EU in which ever form EU residency rules would apply, permits are free if you can show residency, currently £55 charge to produce permit,permanent residence after5 years, you can apply for citizenship after 6 years.

[waddo]

Maybe I confused or tongue in cheeked the issue there, let me try again:
1. IF the UK leave the EU then you are no longer an EU citizen but you remain a UK citizen!
2. Then after the UK has left the EU and the North comes into the EU, you will be treated as any other Non-EU Nations citizen. Normal EU residency rules would then apply to you as a Non-EU citizen.
3. Or, if after the UK has left the EU and the North fails to enter the EU, you can stay as you are here on your visitor permit or apply for permanent residency BUT as a Non-EU citizen you would not be allowed to enter the RoC via the crossing points.
4. Now for some fun: lets say the North in and the UK out, you live here and qualify for EU citizenship because you have been here for 6 years. So you apply and become an EU citizen yet again, which passport would you use to go to the EU country's - remember your UK passport is now Non-EU? UK would let you in because you hold a British Passport - or do you hold a British EU passport in which case it will be invalid anyway until you change it?

Coming out of the EU for UK will cost the tax payers millions just to change simple things like letter headings, passports etc - will it be worth it???

[erol]

.. BUT as a Non-EU citizen you would not be allowed to enter the RoC via the crossing points.

Anyone from a country that does not require a visa to enter the RoC (through a normal port of entry) can cross the Green line. Anyone from a country that does require a visa to enter the RoC (through a normal point of entry) and who has such a visa can cross the Green line. For example my NZ national partner crosses all the time without problem because NZ nationals do not require a visa to enter the RoC.

[waddo]

erol, that also means that if the person entered via Ercan then they can not cross the green line as they have not entered via an approved entry point. Which means that all the "currently" EU people who choose to fly from and to Ercan would not be allowed to cross the green line unless they were a). still EU citizens or b). entered into Cyprus via a RoC approved port of entry!

[erol]

erol, that also means that if the person entered via Ercan then they can not cross the green line as they have not entered via an approved entry point. Which means that all the "currently" EU people who choose to fly from and to Ercan would not be allowed to cross the green line unless they were a). still EU citizens or b). entered into Cyprus via a RoC approved port of entry!

No that is not the case. Anyone who can enter the RoC via a normal point of entry (ie someone who does not require a visa, or someone who does and has such a visa) can also cross the green line into the RoC regardless of if they entered Cyprus via the north or not. This was what the RoC agreed with the EU when they joined the EU.

Title ii - Articl2 section 3 of the Green Line regulations (can be seen here in pdf format http://ec.europa.eu/cyprus/documents/tu ... enline.pdf)

3. Third country nationals shall only be allowed to cross the line provided they:
(a) possess either a residence permit issued by the Republic of Cyprus or a valid travel
document and, if required, a valid visa for the Republic of Cyprus, and
(b) do not represent a threat to public policy or public security.

'valid travel document' means passport in effect. So if you are a third country national (not RoC citizen or EU citizen) then you can cross provided you have a passport and if required a visa. There is no mention of how, as a third country national, you may have entered Cyprus in these regulations.

[waddo]

So, provided that you are not from one of the 134 country's that require a visa to enter the South you can just wander across with your own Nations passport? I understand the Green Line regulations but it is not put into effect on every occurrence for sure, in fact there are many web sites "World Travel Guide" for one which states that - "Any ports or airports in the area of Cyprus in which the government of the republic does not exercise effective control (Turkish occupied area), are deemed illegal points of entry by the Greek Cypriot authorities and any attempt at entry into the Republic of Cyprus via these routes may be denied to non-EU passport holders, with penalties including detainment and deportation. EU passport holders are exempt from this ruling and are free to enter Cyprus regardless of the point of entry" - denial of access to the RoC for tourists from non-EU countries (USA) happens quite often at the crossing points, I suppose they feel safe in the knowledge that the tourist is only here a very short time and will just not bother complaining! My point was that if the UK leaves the EU, where would the British Ex Pat fit into the list of visa required country's or would they?

[erol]

So, provided that you are not from one of the 134 country's that require a visa to enter the South you can just wander across with your own Nations passport?

Yes. If you are from one of the countries that does require a visa and you have a valid one you can also cross with your passport and the visa. There may be individuals at the crossing who do not follow the law correctly but the regulations the RoC agreed with the EU on this point are plain and clear.

My point was that if the UK leaves the EU, where would the British Ex Pat fit into the list of visa required country's or would they?

That would be for the RoC to decide if the UK were to leave the EU - however given the importance of tourism to the RoC economy and the large number of tourist that visit there from the UK I think it is unlikely that the RoC would impose visa requirements on UK citizens if the UK were to leave the EU.

[sophie]

I can just imagine myself landing at Stansted in total confusion not knowing whether I join the EU line with my Passport at immigration, or join a UK citizen only line. Unless of course by then there will be a "Please make an orderly queue here for the disenfranchised and totally disillusioned Brits" line. If they don't eventually have one, then they jolly well ought to!!

[waddo]

sophie, I think the line we would have to join - having come from the TRNC (which by then would be in the EU as well - lol) would be the U shaped line that took us straight back to the Turkish Airlines departures desk!!!

[erol]

If the UK does leave the EU, your status in the UK as a UK citizen that resides overseas will not change. Your status in overseas EU countries will change but not your status in the UK. If there is a Cyprus solution and EU law becomes active in the North, again your status in the UK as a UK citizen that resides overseas will not change. Your status in the north will change from that of foreign temporary resident to that of EU national living in a EU member state that is not your home state.

[Dalartokat]

If the UK does leave the EU, your status in the UK as a UK citizen that resides overseas will not change. Your status in overseas EU countries will change but not your status in the UK. If there is a Cyprus solution and EU law becomes active in the North, again your status in the UK as a UK citizen that resides overseas will not change. Your status in the north will change from that of foreign temporary resident to that of EU national living in a EU member state that is not your home state.

Erol, good to see you are so positive about the status of Expats not changing. Nothing is guaranteed.

2.3 million expats could potentially have their lives put into turmoil. One Conservative MP Dominic Grieve has quoted that Expats could become "illegal immigrants", whilst others have said this is not true, however, it is true that their status could change.

David Cameron has ignored, so far, the plight of expats in general, so people living and working in NC need to avail themselves of more information as to how it could affect them, as well as the changes that could also affect them if there was a settlement between the TRNC and ROC.

[kaiserphil]

If the UK does leave the EU, your status in the UK as a UK citizen that resides overseas will not change. Your status in overseas EU countries will change but not your status in the UK. If there is a Cyprus solution and EU law becomes active in the North, again your status in the UK as a UK citizen that resides overseas will not change. Your status in the north will change from that of foreign temporary resident to that of EU national living in a EU member state that is not your home state.

Erol, good to see you are so positive about the status of Expats not changing. Nothing is guaranteed.

2.3 million expats could potentially have their lives put into turmoil. One Conservative MP Dominic Grieve has quoted that Expats could become "illegal immigrants", whilst others have said this is not true, however, it is true that their status could change.

David Cameron has ignored, so far, the plight of expats in general, so people living and working in NC need to avail themselves of more information as to how it could affect them, as well as the changes that could also affect them if there was a settlement between the TRNC and ROC.

Yes, as a UK Citizen living in Germany, if the UK leaves the EU my status here will change. I will need to register as an alien, as did my American Wife.

I would no longer be able to vote in local elections.

What I do not know is how it would affect my tax position, as there would presumably then be no reciprocal agreement between Britain and Germany. I have a suspicion that I would be expected to pay income tax by both countries.

[erol]

If the UK does leave the EU, your status in the UK as a UK citizen that resides overseas will not change. Your status in overseas EU countries will change but not your status in the UK. If there is a Cyprus solution and EU law becomes active in the North, again your status in the UK as a UK citizen that resides overseas will not change. Your status in the north will change from that of foreign temporary resident to that of EU national living in a EU member state that is not your home state.

Erol, good to see you are so positive about the status of Expats not changing. Nothing is guaranteed.

I was pointing out your status as a UK citizen not resident in the UK would not change IN the UK if the UK were to leave the EU. Of course if you are resident in an EU country (where EU law is applicable) then yes your status in that country would change should the UK leave the EU - as I said above. If the UK were to leave the EU then yes those UK citizens currently residing and or working in other EU countries (where EU law is applicable) would loose their automatic rights to reside and or work in those EU countries. It will be down to each of those countries individually to decide what rights they are willing to grant UK citizens there in terms of residency and working should the UK leave the EU.

... so people living and working in NC need to avail themselves of more information as to how it could affect them, as well as the changes that could also affect them if there was a settlement between the TRNC and ROC.

There are two different if connected things here. A Cyprus settlement and the UK leaving the EU. Currently a UK citizens status in the North is not defined by EU law, so if there is no settlement and the UK does leave the EU then there is no reason to think that would affect UK citizens in North Cyprus. If there is Cyprus settlement and the UK stays in the EU then UK citizens rights to work and reside in North Cyprus will be automatic, though potentially any settlement may have limits on the number of non TC that can reside and vote in the Northern federal state at that federal state level. If there is a settlement AND the UK also leaves the EU, then yes it is unclear currently what rights UK citizens would have in Cyprus (North or South) to reside and or work there in such a senario.

What ever happens the status and rights of UK citizens IN the UK will not change.

[Dalartokat]

Hi Erol, I think we are in a roundabout way saying the same thing, it maybe the way I have put it and yes I am talking about Expats that are currently living in EU(UK citizens that live and work) and yes for NC expats they are/will be/could be, put in a position to deal with 2 issues(major), hence why I said they should avail themselves of any info that could affect them. Hope this makes sense, tried 2 times to write and it keeps timing out

The reason I say this(so no one accuses me of telling them what to do) is that, Expats in the rest of Europe are complaining they are not being given enough information to make their choices as to what to do regarding their lives and their businesses. NC is having even less information, in my opinion and people like BRS should now be on the ball to find as much information as possible for the people that they are supposedly representing(that's now how I see them).

Of course this is all senarios because UK may stay in EU and there may not be a settlement.