Goodbye to the Cyprus Solution!

[wondering1]

I really loved hearing the experiences some of you have had, even though you are not Turkish Cypriot you have a loyalty to here and it is admirable.

Lurucinali you are probably my cousin, lol, because my family are from there. Your views seem to be a little out of sync with the general views held of the village though, I imagine you know this...

Context for others here not familiar with this village, its name later changed to Akincilar which literally means fearless because it is a village that fought against the Greek Cypriots/Army and held their own without any military assistance at all. Famers literally took up arms and went in the surrounding hills.

There are many stories from this village, one for example: 2 villagers were kidnapped from the street by Greeks in Akincilar. The villages took an entire bus full of greeks from a near by village and demanded the return of their own villagers - it worked and no one was injured.

i don't know who you have been speaking to but facts say different.
In 2004 Lurucina voted for peace
In the recent presidential vote Akinci got most of the votes.
Naturally Lurucina has her right wingers too but you know we all have some misguided people amongts us right? and of course we must make special allownaces for those who have special needs.

I imagine Lurucina would vote for any resolution because their situation is unlike any other on this island, they have total isolation, you can only get their through one route which is through an Army base and a check point. Where they check under your car for bombs.

Almost all us left from the village, for England or for Akdogan, because of this so I have no doubt that those who remain there would accept any deal to regain some independence.

However, given that almost every adult there was involved in fighting against Greeks, almost everyone lost family members, does it come as a shock to anyone reading this that they aren't keen on mixing again? They want a resolution granted but because they have no choice in the matter, it is their only choice for any independence.

I don't have a single family member, and both sides of my large extended family come from Lurucina so we are in double digits here, that are pro-mixing of the two sides in the way you seem to be and most of them can speak Greek!

Contrary to what you seem to have implied they are not special needs or right wing, but hold the views of the real people from Lurucina.

They only resolution here is to recognize North Cyprus. If these two sides mix the Island will be a Greek Island within 100 years, half the shops here would have to close down within the month because they sell counterfeit goods and that is illegal in the EU. People seem to forget that point.

[frontalman]

Thank You Robin.

Who actually wants a settlement? And why?

Northern Cyprus is the last real Mediterranean region that is absent of full on commercialism.
Certainly very recent times has seen extensive localised developments to meet the market demands of students, and gamblers.
The economy remains very subdued and outside of the towns there is very little in the way of commercial development.
You can still ride out past tatlisu for example and not see another car for mile upon mile and on good turkish roads.

Settlement will create a massive influx of investment , development, and commercial growth as the door of opportunity swings right open.
I fear a lack of control, proper management and a rush for wealth by the wealthy will turn the region into a massive, noisy, dirty, building site with every westernised franchise, brand , and influence on the gravy train of new opportunity.

Waz you have now got me totally confused! When I was advocating Brexit because I felt that the British (well, English,if you prefer) needed the right to determine their own fate and run their own country, and was concerned that a "friendly neighbouring power" the EU, was interfering with our rights, and damaging our national identity, cuture and customes and ecology, you accused me effectively being an old fogey and resistiting progress.

Now you appear to be opposing Turkish Cypriots reuniting with the Greek and therefore becoming part of the EU and suffering from over - commercialism for exactly the same reasons I wanted British to leave it! Have I misunderstood, are you being sarcastic or is their one rule for Turkish Cyriots and another for the English?!

While not taking sides here I don't see how any 'rules' need apply here. The UK and the TRNC are very different places, one has suffered embargos for many years. When I look at life in the South, and the blatent exploitation of tourists plus the commercialisation, I'm very glad I live here. I'm also glad the UK citizens chose to leave the EU.

[Ragged Robin]

fronttalman : I dont think it is a matter of sides , nor do rules apply. I am just curious as to why waz seems to advocate "progress" for the UK, but bemoans what "progress " is doing to the TRNC.

Actually the destruction of culture , ecology and infrastructure and environment by overdevelopment and purely commercial interests is not confined to the TRNC, the UK and the RoC. have heard many Americans and French make similar complaints about parts of their countries, and h references to many others.

[frontalman]

Maybe Waz is imperfect, inconsistent and wants the best of both worlds - just like me!

[Lurucinali]

I really loved hearing the experiences some of you have had, even though you are not Turkish Cypriot you have a loyalty to here and it is admirable.

Lurucinali you are probably my cousin, lol, because my family are from there. Your views seem to be a little out of sync with the general views held of the village though, I imagine you know this...

Context for others here not familiar with this village, its name later changed to Akincilar which literally means fearless because it is a village that fought against the Greek Cypriots/Army and held their own without any military assistance at all. Famers literally took up arms and went in the surrounding hills.

There are many stories from this village, one for example: 2 villagers were kidnapped from the street by Greeks in Akincilar. The villages took an entire bus full of greeks from a near by village and demanded the return of their own villagers - it worked and no one was injured.

i don't know who you have been speaking to but facts say different.
In 2004 Lurucina voted for peace
In the recent presidential vote Akinci got most of the votes.
Naturally Lurucina has her right wingers too but you know we all have some misguided people amongts us right? and of course we must make special allownaces for those who have special needs.

I imagine Lurucina would vote for any resolution because their situation is unlike any other on this island, they have total isolation, you can only get their through one route which is through an Army base and a check point. Where they check under your car for bombs.

Almost all us left from the village, for England or for Akdogan, because of this so I have no doubt that those who remain there would accept any deal to regain some independence.

However, given that almost every adult there was involved in fighting against Greeks, almost everyone lost family members, does it come as a shock to anyone reading this that they aren't keen on mixing again? They want a resolution granted but because they have no choice in the matter, it is their only choice for any independence.

I don't have a single family member, and both sides of my large extended family come from Lurucina so we are in double digits here, that are pro-mixing of the two sides in the way you seem to be and most of them can speak Greek!

Contrary to what you seem to have implied they are not special needs or right wing, but hold the views of the real people from Lurucina.

They only resolution here is to recognize North Cyprus. If these two sides mix the Island will be a Greek Island within 100 years, half the shops here would have to close down within the month because they sell counterfeit goods and that is illegal in the EU. People seem to forget that point.

you are falling behind the times mate. the Lurucinali's of today cross to the other side as when they wish with no problems at all. |The border is freerer than any other part of Cyprus and has been since 2004.

[turtle]

"Border".... How can there be a border in one country ?

[tomsteel]

Crossings then across The Green Line.

[jofra]

Slipped up!
I put this in the wrong thread, so here it is again......
Not sure whether this programme/film about Lurucina/Akincilar (made/broadcast by Aljazeera!) has been mentioned/highlighted on here before, but I offer it without fear or favour - I personally found it interesting and touching....

[Soner]

Jofra, slipped up again - where's the link?

[jofra]

Here!

[Soner]

Lol, thought I was going mad until I saw that you edited the post and added the link.

[karmels]

Thank you Jofra for the link, it was a great film about life in the village.

[Lurucinali]

it is not so great for those who remember Lurucina as it was prior to 1974 and what 42 years of peace has brought to this part of Cyprus.

Peace like this who needs war.

[frontalman]

At least no-one is getting killed.

[wondering1]

you are falling behind the times mate. the Lurucinali's of today cross to the other side as when they wish with no problems at all. |The border is freerer than any other part of Cyprus and has been since 2004.

You ignored every aspect of my response, to imply that Lurugina is actually not isolated, is that a joke that I don't understand?

You presumably know you still can't even get to that village unless you have a Kimlik right? Because otherwise the army won't let you pass though their base?

You know there is a documentary on youtube from 5 months ago about Lurugina called "The village that's dying"? The whole point behind it is to illustrate the complete isolation it suffers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDRcBHchHLw

Can anyone take what you are saying so seriously now?

[jofra]

Hey; what a coincidence!
I posted a link to the same documentary in this thread just last night!

[Lurucinali]

you are falling behind the times mate. the Lurucinali's of today cross to the other side as when they wish with no problems at all. |The border is freerer than any other part of Cyprus and has been since 2004.

You ignored every aspect of my response, to imply that Lurugina is actually not isolated, is that a joke that I don't understand?

You presumably know you still can't even get to that village unless you have a Kimlik right? Because otherwise the army won't let you pass though their base?

You know there is a documentary on youtube from 5 months ago about Lurugina called "The village that's dying"? The whole point behind it is to illustrate the complete isolation it suffers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDRcBHchHLw

Can anyone take what you are saying so seriously now?

I was not going to make any more posts but as you have attacked me I do feel the need to answer you. You clearly have no connection with the village now. Sure, people need a kimlik karti to enter Luruciona from Piroi, but you are oblivious to the fact that anybody from Lurucina can cross over to Dali, Kiraci koy and more importantly to Larnaka Airport whenever they feel like it with no border controls.

You really need to know your subject without commenting, you should not comment on things you know very little about.

This will be my last post unless I am attacked and if I am attacked I feel I have the right to respond. Natural justice and all that.

[waddo]

Little confused here but got to ask the question. If the people from Lurucina, (which I take it is Akincilar?) can cross over to Dali, Kiraci Koy and Larnaka with no border controls - is the opposite also true in that "Anyone" can visit Lurucina from the Larnaka side of the Island???

[Lurucinali]

Not as yet, that requires official opening of a crossing. Lurucina or as you call it Akincilar was declared military area and hence not even Turkish Cypriots who only have RoC passports can visit it. Only people with TRNC ID card are allowed in. I have however have seen them let people in with British Passports but that depends on the CO of the day and which way he got out of bed and perhaps was he pleased with the previous evening's activities in his household. In my experience these strict control army types seem to melt like butter in the hands of their wives.

Although clearly one such person who has refused to apply for a TRNC ID or passport and only has RoC passport did visit recently but I suspect the Army in Piroi were not aware he was in the car.

Just to further explain that those who live in the village have a card issued and their number plate is recorded so they do not need to stop and show ID when crossing the military camp in Piroi. Anybody who are in these cars that are registered are not checked for ID either. But if one gets caught taking in people in this way will end up in a military court. It is a risk some people do not mind taking for principle.

[wondering1]

Hey; what a coincidence!
I posted a link to the same documentary in this thread just last night!

Sorry I didn't realize that!

Lurucinali, you must realize how you have begun to come across? You have apparently assumed the role as the authority on all things Lurucina and then when someone else of whom their entire family is from Lurucina disagrees with your views suddenly you do not want to respond any more?

It seems very strange that you would say I am attacking you when I am not, merely pointing out the fact that your view that Lurucina is not isolated is totally disconnected with reality and that as recently as 5 months ago there was a documentary published about this. The fact that the isolation they suffer is causing the village to "die" and the documentary is therefore aptly named "The village that is dying".

It seems even more odd that you are saying I am attacking you when almost every response you have made to myself has contained ad hominem or an out right insult, for example your first response after I put forward my families views was to imply they could only hold such a view if they were either right wing or had learning difficulties?

and of course we must make special allownaces for those who have special needs.

Actually, in every post you have made you to me have said something personal or insulting, not the other way around:-

you are falling behind the times mate.

You really need to know your subject without commenting, you should not comment on things you know very little about

Its very immature to pretend you are being attacked as an excuse to escape a discussion simply because you are consistently being proved wrong. Of course, on the basis that this response is merely pointing out facts and is therefore not an attack you should feel no need to respond.

This will be my last post unless I am attacked and if I am attacked I feel I have the right to respond.

EDIT:-

Honestly, you spend time arguing over a point just to prove yourself wrong:-

Lurucina or as you call it Akincilar was declared military area and hence not even Turkish Cypriots who only have RoC passports can visit it.

To anyone that hasn't been there, have a look at the documentary posted earlier in the thread and you will be amazed that someone apparently from there could think it was not isolated.

[waddo]

Thank you. That information now makes it more understandable!

[DenizIsmail]

Cannot understand why the leaders are delaying discussing the 2 main areas for the Cyprus Solution (territorial issues and guarantees) last? If we are going to solve issues relating to Cyprus should the leaders not discuss these areas first?

[waddo]

Good question! But if they discussed them first and could not reach a solution then there would be no excuse to have further talks would there? Cynical view I know but if they carry on the way they are and agree on everything apart from the territorial issues and guarantees then one side can be easily blamed for not wishing for a solution. Which side that may be I leave up to you! But in the end there would be no reason to stop the TRNC being recognized in its own right - perhaps!!

[DenizIsmail]

My own view is that I would like the island to remain divided as we have peace now and WADDO I could not agreed with you more TRNC does evenutally get recognised in its own right.