Jimmy Saville

[Deniz1]

Reading in the uk papers about his alleged sexual harassment I find it strange that no one made a complaint in 50 years? Now he is dead they all talk to the newspapers.

[Soner]

Heard that this was quite normal practice in the BBC around the 70's and that if anyone tried to complain they would just lose their job. It was reported that this did not only involve Jimmy Saville but many others too.There is currently a full investigation going on which may lead to the other independent TV channel at the time, ITV reporting similar activities.

[gemini39]

Saville family just requested that his £4K gravestone be removed and destroyed.

Read in to that as you wish

[Deniz1]

If all this is true I suppose they have every right also he would not have stuck to only BBC employees. He cannot defend his self.

[jayceebee]

I remember seeing a TV drama based on the life of Hughie Green and what he got up to in his Opportunity Knocks days etc....he certainly "didn't go short" as they say...enjoying the delights of Mrs Jess "Stars on Sunday" Yates had and quite a few contestants were his "targets"!

[belle]

It actually sickens me that he is still being referred to as 'sir' ...he was a paedophile and a disgusting pervert, I feel for his victims.

I always had an odd feeling about this weirdo, to see pictures of him walking around the hospital in those blue and white shorts and parading himself, the man was a freak and a sick nonce.

I think he should be dug up and cremated, he deserves to be burnt in hell.

[cyprusishome]

How can he have his knighthood taken off him when nothing has ACTUALLY been proved against him. He is no longer here to defend himself so any inquiry is going to be very difficult. It is so easy for people to say things when there is little chance of rebuttal.

We were in England last week when all this was breaking and listening to all the "celebrities" saying they knew things were not as they should be but said nothing because that was the culture of the time. How many groupies were "molested" and/or raped by such as the Beatles, Rolling Stones, The Who etc and nothing was said but everyone knew what was happening. So should all those stars be investigated and their awards removed for their disgusting behaviour against young people.

The most disgusting person on UK TV last week was Esther Rantzen, yes her of Childline, who said she was aware that "things" were going on but she said or did nothing. Bloody Hypocrite!!!

Sir Jimmy Saville was in part responsible for raising millions of pounds for charity, maybe all the cash raised for Stoke Mandeville for example should be given back as tainted monies.

I actually believe that he was no angel and that many people were, if not complicit, knew what was going on and are just as culpable.

[suehowlittle]

Here is my experience of Jimmy Saville.

When I was 20 years old but looked much younger, I was walking to work (about a mile) and his chauffer-driven Rolls Royce stopped at the kerb and the rear window rolled down and Jimmy Saville asked me if I wanted a lift. As I was quite street-wise I answered in the negative and the car pulled away. Five minutes later it pulled up again and again Jimmy asked me to get in the car, again I refused and he went away. This happened a third time and he tried to persuade me to get into his car again. I went crazy, shouted at him and yes, swore at him as well. The car drove off and did not stop again. This is now 42 years ago and I was in Bramley in Leeds where he lived. My dad knew this man, when they were both kids they lived at Quarry Hill Flats and played football together, when I told my dad about the incident he told me I was right not to get into his car and that he was weird even as a young man.

Obviously, I have never reported this incident as nothing actually untoward happened to me. Now I will always wonder.......

[belle]

Here is my experience of Jimmy Saville.

When I was 20 years old but looked much younger, I was walking to work (about a mile) and his chauffer-driven Rolls Royce stopped at the kerb and the rear window rolled down and Jimmy Saville asked me if I wanted a lift. As I was quite street-wise I answered in the negative and the car pulled away. Five minutes later it pulled up again and again Jimmy asked me to get in the car, again I refused and he went away. This happened a third time and he tried to persuade me to get into his car again. I went crazy, shouted at him and yes, swore at him as well. The car drove off and did not stop again. This is now 42 years ago and I was in Bramley in Leeds where he lived. My dad knew this man, when they were both kids they lived at Quarry Hill Flats and played football together, when I told my dad about the incident he told me I was right not to get into his car and that he was weird even as a young man.

Obviously, I have never reported this incident as nothing actually untoward happened to me. Now I will always wonder.......

I think you had a very lucky escape and well done for not being 'starstruck', you were clearly a very bright and clever girl at that time.

[belle]

How can he have his knighthood taken off him when nothing has ACTUALLY been proved against him. He is no longer here to defend himself so any inquiry is going to be very difficult. It is so easy for people to say things when there is little chance of rebuttal.

We were in England last week when all this was breaking and listening to all the "celebrities" saying they knew things were not as they should be but said nothing because that was the culture of the time. How many groupies were "molested" and/or raped by such as the Beatles, Rolling Stones, The Who etc and nothing was said but everyone knew what was happening. So should all those stars be investigated and their awards removed for their disgusting behaviour against young people.

The most disgusting person on UK TV last week was Esther Rantzen, yes her of Childline, who said she was aware that "things" were going on but she said or did nothing. Bloody Hypocrite!!!

Sir Jimmy Saville was in part responsible for raising millions of pounds for charity, maybe all the cash raised for Stoke Mandeville for example should be given back as tainted monies.

I actually believe that he was no angel and that many people were, if not complicit, knew what was going on and are just as culpable.

I agree with what you say about Esther Rantzen, I think his charity work was a cover for his real need....young girls and now it would appear boys, disgusting paedophile.

[deputydawg]

I have never felt comfortable with the man's persona especially when he was amongst the very young on shows such as "Jim will fix it" However to now refer to him as a nonce before any enquiry is completed is also a wrong. Whether or not there is proof positive to be found in his absence remains to be seen but a likely outcome could be that he probably was deserving of facing a court many years ago. That his family should discard his burial monument is no surprise as they will have known him better than the masses and in any event must realise that it would be vandalised if left in place due to the hysteria generated by the media. It is also understandable that if there were victims when younger they felt they could not speak out at the time. To do so now should be to speak to the police with the help of social services if necessary but not to make allegations to the press without naming the person concerned. One biddy has publicly claimed she was molested but has caused concern by not naming anyone to the police. From what I remember of her. if this is true, the police might easily identify the suspect, as he must be blind.

[Rambling Rose]

The sad thing is that a lot of people will now be making false accusations just to get publicity. At best it will waste Police time and take them from other urgent duties. At worst it will muddy the waters and make it impossible to get at the truth. I wonder what purpose is served by taking up muck at this stage - you can't take revenge against the dead - they are facing a higher court.

[MoBry]

Nothing can be done about Jimmy Savile's actions since he's now dead. But for the living, justice and recognition of the abuse they suffered brings closure and a recognition that they were not at fault. All too often young women abused blame themselves. That the police have commented adversely on Savile's actions says a lot, as well as those who threatened to blow the gaffe on Savile only to have him threaten charities patronised by him with a cut to their funding. And anyone who says it's in the past, how would you feel if it was your daughter who'd been sexually abused and her abuser got away with it because of his fame?

[cyprusishome]

Once again belle you use some rather strong language against a man who has had no official charge made against him. Maybe you know more about the situation in which case let us know otherwise I sanction caution in the words you use on this forum the owners of the forum stand to be taken to task by the authorities over such allegations.

I did not lower myself to watch the documentary last week in England but some commentators did indicate that more than appearing on TV was the reward for talking. As one said, the ladies in question could have gone to the police with 100% anonimity where as they go on TV with disguised voices and everyone now knows who they are??? As a counter another said along the lines of safety in numbers ie one going to police station with allegations would be lost in system where as half dozen going on a TV documentary made them feel safer.

I fear this story is going to drag on for a long time and it is unfortunate that the charities linked to this man may suffer, or not some say no publicity is bad publicity! How long before the Sun starts the pop star expose or the other BBC DJ's who were being suggested but not named last week as possibly being up to same games.

[deputydawg]

I totally concur with all the comments made subsequent to my last post and it all seems to indicate that many of those involved have chosen to take the wrong course of action and what will now follow is likely to be a shambles. In my view, for what it is worth, those who believe they were victims and those who believe that they knew what was going on should have, when they felt up to it, taken the matter to the police and not the media. In turn, the media should not have used allegations to make a documentary programme but too should have encouraged the complainants to go to the police whose task may now be nigh impossible. The theme throughout is that everybody seems to look after their own interests when integrity should be the dominant factor. In particular, Mobry's post reminds me of the time when Government introduced a National Lottery. Most churches of many denominations screamed long and hard regarding this sinful act of encouraging the masses to gamble, when perhaps many could ill afford it, but as soon as the government announced that religious organisations were entitled to bid for lottery monies the protests ceased instantly and the churches chased the money no matter how it was accrued.

[belle]

OK lets say this for those who don't feel for his victims, oh well never mind, he is dead so no harm done. UNREAL.

[Rambling Rose]

Its not that I dont feel for the victims, but I don't see that a media circus and a lot of people making up stories is going to bring them closure. More likely hurt them by trivialising their sufferings, I would have thought.

I feel that a lot of people will be hurt by the way this is being handled, the victims themselves, innocent people who will inevitably suffer guilt by association in a witch hunt, and the ultimate victims, the people the Charities are trying to help.

It us another sympton of the sickness of modern society - we make idols of media and sports stars (and overpay them) and allow our youth to worship them, and undervalue those who are doing vital, but less galmorous jobs.

[belle]

R Rose, I agree with what you have said, however I do think it will bring some closure for them, especially those that tried to speak out and were called liars etc. They need apologies and acceptance for what they went through.

[belle]

Once again belle you use some rather strong language against a man who has had no official charge made against him. Maybe you know more about the situation in which case let us know otherwise I sanction caution in the words you use on this forum the owners of the forum stand to be taken to task by the authorities over such allegations.

I did not lower myself to watch the documentary last week in England but some commentators did indicate that more than appearing on TV was the reward for talking. As one said, the ladies in question could have gone to the police with 100% anonimity where as they go on TV with disguised voices and everyone now knows who they are??? As a counter another said along the lines of safety in numbers ie one going to police station with allegations would be lost in system where as half dozen going on a TV documentary made them feel safer.

I fear this story is going to drag on for a long time and it is unfortunate that the charities linked to this man may suffer, or not some say no publicity is bad publicity! How long before the Sun starts the pop star expose or the other BBC DJ's who were being suggested but not named last week as possibly being up to same games.

Lower yourself to watch the documentary, well I watched it and I certainly don't think I lowered myself and neither do the 1.9 million other viewers, I have said in previous posts what I think about this man and the police seem to agree that he abused a lot of very young people, girls and boys. All sexual deviants are known as NONCES!

[Sandman]

Women have been raped but have not reported it because of the attitude of some of the respondents on this forum. some of whom are women!!??
They think they won't be believed or will be accused of having"asked for it" because of their dress code or some other equally ridiculous excuse.
Anyone who makes excuses for Saville or anyone else dead or alive in these circumstances needs to seek help.
Come on folks - it's the 21st century !!!

[flowerfairy]

As you say Sandman, this is the 21st century........
with so many do gooders, human rights, and ''protection'' for the criminals, what hope do we have?

I too was approached by a so called 'pop' star in my youth. Fortunately I did not get in his van, thank goodness.
But I wonder how many young girls did . I was 15 years old at the time.

I do agree though, what good will come of all of this,now that he's dead. This will go on for ages because it's selling
newspapers.

[belle]

Sandman I fully agree with you, anyone who even attempts to defend this disgusting, evil, paedophile of a man needs to take a good long look at their inner self.

[belle]

The sad thing is that a lot of people will now be making false accusations just to get publicity. At best it will waste Police time and take them from other urgent duties. At worst it will muddy the waters and make it impossible to get at the truth. I wonder what purpose is served by taking up muck at this stage - you can't take revenge against the dead - they are facing a higher court.

Unbelievable that you think this way, waste police time, hells bells woman.

[jock1]

I would still birch him..............

[Rambling Rose]

Belle:

Make your mind up! In one post you say you agree with me, in another you seem to be attacking me.

Don't you think the Police should prioritise stopping it happening to someone else, rather than having to interview thousands of publicity seekers fuelled by the media's sickening headline seeking?

Personally I couldn't stand the man's public image - "creepy" was exactly how I saw him, and I switched off or over whenever he appeared on my TV screen. Perhaps I could make fortune selling a story to the papers on how I am psychic and saw through him? Dont worry, I wont.

English justice is still based on "innocent until proved guilty" and he has not, and cant be, tried. Of course, we should learn lessons (and maybe an investigation of BBC and other practices should be carried out) , and of course we should support the victims in any way we can: however I cannot see how this unhealthy outburst of vitriolic hate against a dead man who cant defend himself can do anygood to anyone, other than make profits for the media moguls.

Perhaps we should also think more carefully about the values we use in judging and rewarding our heros and idols - the adulation and money thrown at some so called "stars" is bound to make the morally weak believe they are above normal legal and moral standards.

[Mel7348]

Rambling Rose said " Perhaps we should also think more carefully about the values we use in judging and rewarding our heros and idols - the adulation and money thrown at some so called "stars" is bound to make the morally weak believe they are above normal legal and moral standards."

As far as I am concerned wise words.

[belle]

Belle:

Make your mind up! In one post you say you agree with me, in another you seem to be attacking me.

Don't you think the Police should prioritise stopping it happening to someone else, rather than having to interview thousands of publicity seekers fuelled by the media's sickening headline seeking?

Personally I couldn't stand the man's public image - "creepy" was exactly how I saw him, and I switched off or over whenever he appeared on my TV screen. Perhaps I could make fortune selling a story to the papers on how I am psychic and saw through him? Dont worry, I wont.

English justice is still based on "innocent until proved guilty" and he has not, and cant be, tried. Of course, we should learn lessons (and maybe an investigation of BBC and other practices should be carried out) , and of course we should support the victims in any way we can: however I cannot see how this unhealthy outburst of vitriolic hate against a dead man who cant defend himself can do anygood to anyone, other than make profits for the media moguls.

Perhaps we should also think more carefully about the values we use in judging and rewarding our heros and idols - the adulation and money thrown at some so called "stars" is bound to make the morally weak believe they are above normal legal and moral standards.

The sad thing is that a lot of people will now be making false accusations just to get publicity. At best it will waste Police time and take them from other urgent duties. At worst it will muddy the waters and make it impossible to get at the truth. I wonder what purpose is served by taking up muck at this stage - you can't take revenge against the dead - they are facing a higher court.

That is what I disagree with................it isn't about revenge, it's about justice for the victims of this vile man, like the disabled at Stoke Mandeville.

[Rambling Rose]

One definition of "justice" IN CIVIL COURTS is to "put the victim back AS FAR AS MONEY CAN DO IT in the position he was in before the offence". Sadly I dont see how any amount of money can give back what victims of this kind of offence have lost, though of course it can help cure, or at least alleviate, physical injuries. Encouraging them in bitterness won't do any good at all, better surely to help them realise that it does not diminish them as people ot make them freaks (which undue publicity will) and encourage them to get onwith their lives normally.

It is the job of CRIMINAL law to punish and to deter others by that punishment. This man is now beyond that. Investigations and improvements should be carried out by the relevant authorities - but NOT, please , NOT trial by media.

As for the latest "revelation" about a disabled person. What I dont understand is why any man was alone with imobilised people - where were the nurses etc - was not the person reporting ableto call, or press a bell for help if she saw something wrong, or at least report it at the time?

[belle]

One definition of "justice" IN CIVIL COURTS is to "put the victim back AS FAR AS MONEY CAN DO IT in the position he was in before the offence". Sadly I dont see how any amount of money can give back what victims of this kind of offence have lost, though of course it can help cure, or at least alleviate, physical injuries. Encouraging them in bitterness won't do any good at all, better surely to help them realise that it does not diminish them as people ot make them freaks (which undue publicity will) and encourage them to get onwith their lives normally.

It is the job of CRIMINAL law to punish and to deter others by that punishment. This man is now beyond that. Investigations and improvements should be carried out by the relevant authorities - but NOT, please , NOT trial by media.

As for the latest "revelation" about a disabled person. What I dont understand is why any man was alone with imobilised people - where were the nurses etc - was not the person reporting ableto call, or press a bell for help if she saw something wrong, or at least report it at the time?

Where have I mentioned money in any of my posts and if I may add, you clearly are not aware of many of the facts of the disabled girl and so until you can acquaint yourself with a few I shall ignore you as you are clearly rambling on about things you don't seem to have a grasp of!

[Rambling Rose]

Oh dear and there was I thinking this Board was relatively clear of people who idea of civilised debate was being rude to anyone who happened to have a different viewpoint from theirs. I dont wish to be retailiate in kind about your obviously bias but I find your comments offensive and attitude very disturbing Belle.

No I dont know the full facts of the allegations regarding as far as I am concerned improved allegations about interference with the disabled girl - which is why I said I didnt understand All I know is what I have seen in the media , and that indicates that she was inadequately protected, but I am well aware I dont know all the circumstances - do you Belle? If not why do you object to my obvious concerns.

What I do know - and anyone Policeman or woman will confirm , is that in high profile cases where the media has promoted uninformed speculation, the Police have to spend a lot of time investigating reports prompted by attention seeking,by the mentally disturbed or even those seeking to make trouble for others, and this can seriously impede an investigation

My sympathies go out to the victims, but also the many victims the investigation and particularly media and public hysteria wil create .

What is true is that speculation and comment on the basis of media reports is pointless and can be dangerous and I shall take my own advice andmake no further comments on this case.

[Rambling Rose]

Sorry - word in first line of second para shoudlbe "UNproved" not "improved!!

[mickhm]

Sorry Belle, facts must be substantiated. The words of one person 40 years later do not create a fact. Indecent assault, which can be as little as an unwanted peck on the cheek are very hard to prove and are extremely hard to disprove when it is one persons word against another. With one party is deceased to come to the actual facts of an alleged assault are impossible to determine. A court of law would require culpability beyond all reasonable doubt. A civil case would work on the basis of probabilities. As yet there are unsubstantiated claims from victims but no comment from the alleged offender. This does seem rather harsh to judge someone who is now deceased and cannot answer for themselves.

I make no judgement on this as I like you are not in a position to know all the facts of the case but I do know that if you sling enough mud it eventually sticks. Knowing and living in the 60's and 70's I expect some of the allegations may well be true, but I am not in a position to pass judgement as you seem to think you are. It is no use shouting heretic at anyone that disagrees with your views. At then end of the day the truth will be ascertained either by probablities or substanstiated facts. Lets just keep quiet and find out what the police investigation uncovers, then perhaps you can in all truth tell the world what you think of him. If he is guilty then my thoughts and sympathies go out to any and all of his victims and I hope they can have some closure on episode in their lives. Till then lets just watch observe and refrain from inflamatory comment.

[Soner]

Thank you mickhm, well put.

I have closed this thread. You may start another preferably much later when the case has ended and there is some form of verdict.

Please remember that we are all individuals and may not agree with each others views. There is absolutely no need for any form of attack on members, it will not be allowed on this forum.

Please read the forum rules.