New plan for road tax

come_on_aylin · Post by **come_on_aylin** » Sun 22 May 2016 2:24 pm

I spotted in yesterday's Cyprus Today that there is a proposal by the deputy Prime minister and Finance minister to amalgamate road tax into the cost of fuel, effectively putting a stop to road tax avoidance. Sounds good to me, let's hope they manage to do it. It should lower the cost of road tax, one would hope.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Sun 22 May 2016 3:00 pm

One would assume successful amalgamation of the annual road fund licence within increased fuel charges would eliminate, rather than lower, this cost. A really sensible proposal which would free up civil servants for other duties (postal)?

This should be the UK system as well.

TRNCVaughan · Post by **TRNCVaughan** » Sun 22 May 2016 3:10 pm

There are pros and cons for this.
High mileage users will pay lots of tax just to drive a modest car.
Owners of expensive luxury cars only used at weekends will pay little tax.

MrA · Post by **MrA** » Sun 22 May 2016 3:12 pm

Does seem sensible and as I remember was mooted in the UK some years ago but never happened, would think the local civil servants will be against this in TRNC as they probably were in UK.

mickhm · Post by **mickhm** » Sun 22 May 2016 3:33 pm

We currently have lower petrol prices than the South. if the tax goes on petrol I can se lots of people crossing to fill their tanks

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Sun 22 May 2016 3:52 pm

The pros and cons for and against the proposal could wage forever. Few Cypriots only drive at weekends, whatever their class of vehicle. If drivers go to the RoC for cheaper fuel, the garage owners will raise their prices to reap the benefit, thereby minimising that avenue of saving.
In my opinion, the government crack down on documentation should be prioritised:
Car insurance checked against a centralised, computerised, register with data provided by insurers at the time of purchase.
Valid, annual, MOT of a meaningful nature.
Increased policing of driving standards, speeding etc and raise the fines for offenders.
No annual road vehicle licence fee - increase fuel, MOT costs and add a small insurance surcharge.
Introduce a car hire surcharge.
No doubt others with more experience in this area will add to the debate and a good thing too. However, at the end of the day it will be the TCs who will decide and dictate.

come_on_aylin · Post by **come_on_aylin** » Sun 22 May 2016 4:31 pm

TS, you're correct re eliminating cost of road tax in post 2. Blonde moment

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Sun 22 May 2016 4:41 pm

c_o_a. I wish I shared your confidence on its elimination. That would be logical, but who knows here? lol.

JBA · Post by **JBA** » Sun 22 May 2016 4:43 pm

Currently your MOT and Emissions tests are checked as part of the road tax procedure. So the proposed change would mean some other process would need implementing and probably just as many civil servants.

Far more sensible to have a displayed tax disc like most countries which can be easily checked without stopping the car.

pc4854 · Post by **pc4854** » Sun 22 May 2016 4:59 pm

JBA, We have even discontinued Road Tax Discs in the UK now.

PapaBravo · Post by **PapaBravo** » Sun 22 May 2016 6:47 pm

At the moment, Road Tax is based on the weight of the vehicle (the heavier the vehicle the more you pay), so this move to lump the Road Tax with the cost of fuel would remove that weighting, favouring the larger vehicles.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Sun 22 May 2016 6:56 pm

Most larger vehs use derv, ergo tax it more and help the environment also. Further the original insurance of the veh would indicate the cat of the weight etc. Classification by weight and cost would be simple. Confirmation of MOT and emissions could be introduced at the insurance of the veh process. You do not have them, no insurance. Police check - no insurance, veh impounded, under arrest, prosecuted and heavily fined. Repeat offenders, jail!

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Sun 22 May 2016 8:11 pm

PapaBravo wrote:At the moment, Road Tax is based on the weight of the vehicle (the heavier the vehicle the more you pay), so this move to lump the Road Tax with the cost of fuel would remove that weighting, favouring the larger vehicles.

Well heavier vehicles use more fuel by and large so really they will pay more than economical cars...

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Sun 22 May 2016 8:15 pm

tomsteel wrote:Most larger vehs use derv, ergo tax it more and help the environment also. Further the original insurance of the veh would indicate the cat of the weight etc. Classification by weight and cost would be simple. Confirmation of MOT and emissions could be introduced at the insurance of the veh process. You do not have them, no insurance. Police check - no insurance, veh impounded, under arrest, prosecuted and heavily fined. Repeat offenders, jail!

Confirmation of MOT.... confirmation that you were charged for someone to peer into the bonnet and check you engine number against the log book... it's a joke.

I don't know the estimated figures for untaxed cars but I'm guessing it's massive to prompt such a move - in which case pay you go is definitely the way forward...

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Sun 22 May 2016 8:20 pm

You will note in my msg 6, I advocated a meaningful MOT. PAYGO is the logical way ahead, imho.

erol · Post by **erol** » Sun 22 May 2016 9:10 pm

I think they use this system in New Zealand for petrol cars - diesel does not have an extra tax on fuel and thus diesel cars still pay a separate road tax.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/licen ... about-ruc/

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Sun 22 May 2016 9:14 pm

And how would it affect hire car costs for us swallows and holidaymakers...?

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Mon 23 May 2016 6:12 am

jofra wrote:And how would it affect hire car costs for us swallows and holidaymakers...?

Well it should make hire rates lower and fuel costs higher meaning you pay as go too...

Difficult to see a downside...

There are so many cars untaxed, uninsured, un-MOT'd and downright dangerous on the road that the current system clearly is not fit for purpose...

It is broke so fix it...

terry2366 · Post by **terry2366** » Mon 23 May 2016 9:43 am

And the percentage of people that drive without tax I think it was over 50% last time would drop to zero if the tax was on fuel. Plus as you are worried about luxury cars most like range rovers and X5 use more fuel. But food which has to be transported will increase in price.

squashmad · Post by **squashmad** » Mon 23 May 2016 10:05 am

If they just made everyone display their road tax disc and fine those that don't .... problem solved!

But they have to make life difficult which is typical of over here.

Taxi prices, food prices, store prices in general will all have to go up to accommodate the increase and all because the police cannot keep on top of who has paid and who hasn't paid their road tax but if the law was that you had to display it in the windscreen then it would be easier to control.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Mon 23 May 2016 10:11 am

I think the point is being missed that scrapping road tax there are huge savings in civil servant salaries, pensions, office costs etc as all these costs would be saved. The police checks could then concentrate on insurance knowing the insurers have done the checks on identity, MOT, emission and kocan at the time of insurance.

come_on_aylin · Post by **come_on_aylin** » Mon 23 May 2016 11:02 am

Have to agree with TS. Without seeing the proposals I can't see how it can be assumed that the price of goods will go up, collecting it as part of fuel is instead of collecting it separately should save costs, especially as no-one will be able to avoid it. Not saying that it won't be used as an excuse to raise prices though.

brian24001 · Post by **brian24001** » Mon 23 May 2016 11:37 am

The problem here is not applying the tax, and how it is collected. The issue is that there are no real consequences for not paying it!

I will bet there are thousands of cars on the road that are (and never have been) taxed, MOT'd or insured!

Hold a major campaign of checking all documentation. Give anyone without their tax/MOT/ins a 5,000tl fine, a week to pay and produce all the back payments proof, impound the vehicle why this is being done, then another week or it is scrapped.

The problem will soon sort itself out of there are consequences.

But, most of all, remove all the 'family' exemptions for not complying with the simple rules of society

harita · Post by **harita** » Mon 23 May 2016 12:16 pm

squashmad wrote:If they just made everyone display their road tax disc and fine those that don't .... problem solved!

Within 2 days it would be a blank piece of paper ..

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Mon 23 May 2016 2:12 pm

That's what UV from concentrated sunlight does to colours. Hence, scrap the whole concept, make it simple and add the cost to fuel of whatever road type usage.

snd1966 · Post by **snd1966** » Mon 23 May 2016 2:37 pm

Its only a small country I can't believe it would be that hard to trace un taxed un MOT'd vehicles but that would mean having to do something

At present even when they are stopped, they are released after paying the fine which is sometimes a lot lot cheaper than paying the tax. As someone said to me if I get caught less than 4 times a year its a result!

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Mon 23 May 2016 3:32 pm

In case anyone is interested - the reason the Government is looking to incorporate road tax into fuel cost is because over 60% of the cars on the road have no tax, have not paid any tax for years and most of them now require to be re-registered as well. The police can not catch them all as they actually have to be on the road or they are not committing an offence! So if you have no road tax or your car is not registered and you park it under the olive tree - you are legal. Just drive it when there are no police about and you are fine - don't get caught!!!

snd1966 · Post by **snd1966** » Mon 23 May 2016 5:09 pm

tomsteel wrote:I think the point is being missed that scrapping road tax there are huge savings in civil servant salaries, pensions, office costs etc as all these costs would be saved. The police checks could then concentrate on insurance knowing the insurers have done the checks on identity, MOT, emission and kocan at the time of insurance.

But what will these people do instead?, realistically why are there so many civil servants , maybe its because there are not a lot of job opportunities on this rock. It has never bothered me how many I just wish those employed would be more eager and those in charge created a flexi hour or shift system which would enable others to visit them in a longer working period.

Did CT mention how much would have to go on a litre to get a better return than the old tax system?

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Mon 23 May 2016 6:41 pm

The 'extra' civil servants could be either re-employed in the postal services (for example) or discharged from service with a resettlement package. The unions here would never accept flexible working hours. CT have no idea on increased fuel cost, nor dare I say, has the TRNC Government completed any form of research.

Barbieb · Post by **Barbieb** » Tue 24 May 2016 9:32 pm

Sorry have not posted for a long time, I hardly drive my car, my road tax is a hell of a lot of money because it is high spec, and comfortable, what does it matter the spec of your car, it is how much it is on the road, and maybe weight does come into it, so how comes commercial vehicles pay less road tax, anyway missing the point, if the cost goes on petrol. we are paying the road usage, personally I think that is fair and right, we should all expect to pay our way in life, and I don't have a problem with that, so I say, lets do it, maybe the roads here will be improved then, if the users are paying for it, sorry, think I am about to get a lot of abuse, I hope not cos I just think it makes sense.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Wed 25 May 2016 5:36 am

Barbie, you should not get any abuse on this, or any other, forum for saying what you think is right. Others may have differing opinions and that is their prerogative. I think you are right, however, I wonder if the TRNC Government will actually adopt this pragmatic solution to the annual road vehicle tax avoidance problem. Enjoy your high spec motoring whilst I poodle around in my low end Mazda.

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Wed 25 May 2016 5:58 am

Quite right Barbieb, if you use the road then pay for the use. Why should you have to pay for what you do not use anyway? The Governments problem is sorting out the mess of the 60% non taxed or non registered vehicles that are currently on the roads - these are the ones you pay for (and every other tax payer) to use the roads and make no mistake about it - they are breaking the law and are criminals! No road tax means no valid insurance so look at it another way because they are not paying insurance either - get hit by one of them and you will pay for all your own repairs!

The Government is currently considering an "amnesty" for those unregistered/un-taxed vehicles, not to let them off with what they owe but instead to give them time to pay up what they owe - their problem is in finding them first. It is a big job to go to the registered address of the vehicle and find the owner now but give them time. Its a job worth doing and I can only hope its one they will do right. By the way, we have two cars in our family, one high tax and one low tax but both use the same road.

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Wed 25 May 2016 7:32 am

Barbieb wrote:.... think I am about to get a lot of abuse, I hope not cos I just think it makes sense.

You have stated clearly what you think and even if someone disagrees with your comments no abuse should be warranted or tolerated...

As a mater of interest - the value, height of specification or comfort of cars does not come into the road tax equation... only the motor's age, fuel type, engine size and number of seats..

Of course larger more fuel guzzling cars will automatically pay more direct fuel tax as they use it... in the end if it increases revenue then that could be used to improve roads and beef-up the efforts of the car insurance and MOT inspectorates... we can only hope!

As has been previously stated many of the cars currently on the road are neither taxed or insured.... This applies to the UK too unfortunately!

WotNoDeeds · Post by **WotNoDeeds** » Wed 25 May 2016 8:05 am

Groucho wrote: This applies to the UK too unfortunately!

With ANPR cameras everywhere (virtually on every road ) in the U.K. now getting away with driving on the roads illegally is extremely difficult you can't compare the roads in the U.K. with the half wit dangerous drivers they have in the TRNC .

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-day.html

Mowgli597 · Post by **Mowgli597** » Wed 25 May 2016 8:07 am

In Ireland road tax is based on emissions which are, of course, supplied by the manufacturers - most of whom, it would appear, have been fiddling the numbers for years!
VW, the first to be caught, even offered to pay the difference for drivers of their vehicles, if necessary.
No system is perfect!

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Wed 25 May 2016 1:02 pm

"With ANPR cameras everywhere (virtually on every road ) in the U.K. now getting away with driving on the roads illegally is extremely difficult you can't compare the roads in the U.K. with the half wit dangerous drivers they have in the TRNC ."

Quite agree - which is probably why the half wit dangerous drivers from the UK have all moved over here, unless of course you think that drinking for 5 hours then driving home is a normal safe thing to do! For sure the ten cars that attended yet another garden party were all Brit driven and all drove home afterwards.

But do take your point on the UK ANPR swindle - my best mate celebrated his 70th birthday in January by getting his very first speeding ticket in 50 years motoring, claims his mum (95) was distracting him with complaints about how much the shopping cost - lol.

snd1966 · Post by **snd1966** » Wed 25 May 2016 1:45 pm

My concern; as it is a small island, I do wonder how many miles people travel a year and how many will have to be driven to cover what should be generated by road tax with fuel usage.

and even if tax is covered by fuel what about the lack of insurance?

Hopefully a severe crackdown on dodgers will take place

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Wed 25 May 2016 2:36 pm

Just a thought but why not roll the whole thing up in one system?

1. Put the extra on the fuel so that road users pay for the the road they use.
2. Open up more MOT centers (that can provide jobs for the out of work tax issuers) and make the MOT and Emissions test an annual thing.
3. Let the MOT centers produce new number plates for each car as part of the MOT with the year of issue stamped onto them.
4. Vehicle owners presenting the vehicle for MOT must present a valid insurance document at the time of MOT.

Slowly, slowly bring in a proper MOT and not just the engine number, license plate, occasional headlamp, tinted widows and discolored paint checks that form the current MOT. Lets be really innovative and check things like tyres, brakes, indicators and windscreen washer/wipers - leave the exhaust system check to the emissions tester. Its not rocket science and we have (most of us anyway) been there before!

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Wed 25 May 2016 2:54 pm

WotNoDeeds wrote:
Groucho wrote: This applies to the UK too unfortunately!
With ANPR cameras everywhere (virtually on every road ) in the U.K. now getting away with driving on the roads illegally is extremely difficult you can't compare the roads in the U.K. with the half wit dangerous drivers they have in the TRNC .

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-day.html

I was not comparing UK driving habits - only lack of certification... you have deliberately taken part of the sentence out of the context within which it was quite purposefully placed.

When more of % of UK cars are taxed and insured I will agree with you but latest estimates support the view that a large minority of cars in the UK are not taxed, insured or MOT'd.... Cameras might get pictures of cars but if those cars don't have known owners and number plates they are pretty useless unless they are stopped then and there... With UK traffic police being squeezed at each turn I'm not convinced the political will to solve the problem exists..

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Wed 25 May 2016 2:57 pm

waddo wrote: ... Lets be really innovative and check things like tyres, brakes, indicators and windscreen washer/wipers - leave the exhaust system check to the emissions tester. Its not rocket science and we have (most of us anyway) been there before!

Ha ha then their family members would all be back on donkeys....

suehowlittle · Post by **suehowlittle** » Wed 25 May 2016 7:10 pm

In 13 years we have never had an MOT tester get up from his desk, other than to ask us if we have any problems with the car, we always say no as we maintain it well.

5 minutes later we have another MOT certificate.

Heigh Ho!

We actually thing that this is an absolutely ridiculous situation.

Cars have to be checked out properly to be safe on the roads.

I will never understand the mindset here.

(got my tin hat on so feel free)

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Thu 26 May 2016 7:03 am

Sue, you must be a young chick if you can't remember what the UK was like in the "Golden Years" - lol. Have a look at this and then remember that since 1974 the TRNC has been held back by every Nation in the world apart from Turkey: http://www.ukmot.com/MOT%20history.asp

Ah memories, what memories!!!!!

Groucho · Post by **Groucho** » Thu 26 May 2016 7:13 am

waddo wrote:Sue, you must be a young chick if you can't remember what the UK was like in the "Golden Years" - lol. Have a look at this and then remember that since 1974 the TRNC has been held back by every Nation in the world apart from Turkey: http://www.ukmot.com/MOT%20history.asp

Ah memories, what memories!!!!!

Thing is Waddo, here they don't even do the 1960 version!

I reckon the MOT test here was developed for donkey, horse and cart and camel....

Barbieb · Post by **Barbieb** » Thu 26 May 2016 8:55 pm

Looks like most of us agree on this, the one thing that I am sure the MOT test is a joke, however if you have a commercial vehicle (my husband has a truck (more like a big car), initially for our dogs, you do have to produce your insurance certificate at MOT and have an annual MOT check, this would not be a problem for me and most of us on here, however I do think the only way to get around the tax dodgers is to put the cost on petrol, and I believe (not sure this is still the case) that is how they do it in France, then the government get a lot more income from the cars that come over from Turkey as well as the road tax evaders here, this could go a long way to improving our roads, if the government truly use this income for highways.

13roman58 · Post by **13roman58** » Fri 27 May 2016 6:39 am

Where as I agree with the proposal to put the car tax onto fuel I just wonder how much will actually be spent on road infrastructure as I don,t believe that much of the UK road tax is spent on roads.

Hammerhead · Post by **Hammerhead** » Tue 11 Oct 2016 7:26 am

I don't think the average tc could afford 1800 tl for road tax

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