Cyprus Today Newspaper

[MikeK]

Had to double check the date on today's issue, thought it might have been an April Fools headline. Silly me!
"Law Change for Foreign Drivers"
"Foreign drivers living or working in the TRNC will have to surrender their driving licences in return for Turkish Cypriot ones".

[terry2366]

If this is true what will happen if we cross the border and are stopped by GC plod??

[waddo]

The Tip of the Iceberg?
Noted in today’s CT is front page news about a new “Law change for Foreign Drivers”! Maybe a good idea and maybe not – you get to decide which! Apparently, the aim is to upgrade standards in the TRNC by introducing a series of regulations which introduce EU road safety standards – really?
So, from 2019 – ish (this being Cyprus) foreign drivers (long term residents) will no longer be able to keep their overseas driving licence – although “Tourists” in the TRNC for less than three months at a time will be exempt from the change. However, all motorists will also have to submit to health checks when renewing their licences as well.

Let’s just be sure about EU regulations first then: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/ve ... dex_en.htm and more importantly, if you have no UK licence but pass the driving test in the TRNC to gain a TRNC licence, you will be please to know that prior to BREXIT being concluded you will not be able to exchange your TRNC licence for a UK licence on return to the UK. You first must be a resident for 185 days and also exchanging your current licence issued by a country recognised by the UK – TRNC is not recognised, so no exchange. By the way, if you have a UK licence and do not live there, when your licence expires – by EU law – you can only renew it if you return to the UK and take up residence for more than 185 days! If you use a “friends” address instead when you renew you have just broken the law. What will happen post BREXIT nobody knows yet.

Now, apart from the little bit missing – when you drive in the RoC, if you are not a TRNC citizen, you can only drive on a valid EU licence or with an International Driving Permit (IDP) if you are not an EU citizen – all seems ok so far. So once you have exchanged your EU licence for a TRNC licence you will no longer be able to drive in the RoC. This because the RoC do not recognise the TRNC licence unless you are a TRNC citizen! Of course you could always apply for a RoC licence BUT you have to reside in the RoC for six months first to be eligible to apply! These are EU rules people – you remember them and the straight bananas don’t you – entirely logical!

However, a bit further down the iceberg is another question: How can a foreign driver become a resident? Up to now there is no procedure to become a resident and all foreigners simply have a 1 or 2 year visa in their passports (I am not interested in the over 60 age, handshake agreement here, only the law), so effectively all foreigners are “Tourists” on extended holidays??? Additionally, what about the 90 day border jumpers who save all that visa/residency money each year, how will they be affected?

It seems like the North is heading for full EU membership – regardless of the outcome of the latest peace talks – so they are trying to get their ducks in a row first. How sad it is that they are trying to do it by starting at the tip instead of the base – put in place the ground rules and the rest is easy but now, without ground rules in place I fear the iceberg will eventually capsize. Good discussion points, without finger pointing now required.

The above was cut and pasted from MS Word - the cut/paste failed to pick up the paragraphs - I have corrected it, sorry.

[jacob]

Waddo could you please use paragraphs to make it easier to read long posts.

Thank you

[waddo]

MikeK, to be fair here it should not affect any any foreign driver who is currently living and/or working in the TRNC and has been for in excess of more than 90 days.

Those foreign drivers will have already obeyed the law and will already be in possession of a TRNC licence - won't they???

[MikeK]

If this is true what will happen if we cross the border and are stopped by GC plod??

Very good point, We were told when we got insurance and "road tax" in the South, we can drive there on our UK licence only. Not sure if that is strictly true. However, if true, in the changeover period (and your UK license has been surrended) and you renew your insurance at the border by showing expired policy, you will be continuing your journey with no license and effectively invalid insurance.

It will be better when all these cable cars are built, traffic free congestion and no driving license required . OOps, just read further on in the paper, This plan is now scrapped no surprises there. Maybe this driving License "revenue raising scam" will be consigned to the bin like all the other ridiculous Ex Pat "milking" schemes of the past.

[waddo]

MikeK, I have had many in depth discussions with the RoC equivalent to the DVLA over that very issue. It boils down to this: If you live in the TRNC permanently and have renewed your UK licence by breaking the current EU laws then you are already driving illegally and your insurance is not valid anyway. The only answer is to take a RoC driving test which they were very happy to let me do - provided that I could prove I had been a resident of the RoC for six months!!

I even raised the issue of the TRNC licence not being accepted as a valid driving licence in the RoC (if you were not a TRNC citizen) with the EU. Their response was simple: It is up to each member of the EU to either accept or refuse the validity of any non-EU driving licence! In essence it means that the RoC can set their own laws on driving licences - and they have.

[MikeK]

Waddo, Very interesting regarding insurance in the South, Sadly they do not elaborate on these matters when you hand over your 25 euros and they should, or maybe we should ask more questions when purchasing it.

[waddo]

I think they take the same attitude in the South as they do in the rest of the world - Ignorance of the law is no excuse! My argument with the RoC DVLA about the whole thing took around 8 months and gave me the feeling that they actually did not want anybody to drive on "Their" roads anyway. Plus, my point about them issuing the driving (vehicle) permit - which we call road tax - even if they thought we were using an invalid driving licence fell on deaf ears. So like everyone else, I gave up, gave a Cyprus shrug and just carried on - lol.

[elizabeth]

I'm all for improving the standard of driving and the safety on the roads, but how will this help ?.Looking at the reports on accidents it seems to me that a larger proportion involve local drivers and students than other groups, and how many times do we see that the driver had no licence or insurance,
Where we live we know of quite a few locals who drive without a licence, they laugh and say " police, no police", a few also drive with no rear number plate, to avoid speed cameras perhaps, surely these are things that need addressing before anything else.
This sounds like another badly thought out idea where the actual consequences of this have not even been considered. Will they ever learn.

[Telstar]

I really cant wait to see the written test.

Q1. What is the stopping distance for 100kmh?

Answer a. 300mtrs
Answer b. 300mins
Answer c. It depends on what I'm going to hit
Answer d. I can't stop my tyres are bald.

Q2. Which lane should be used to drive straight ahead at a roundabout?

Answer a. The lane indicated by the traffic flow ahead
Answer b. Any Lane you can push into.
Answer c. Follow the paket service moped
Answer d. Stop in the middle of the road and think about it while letting off passengers.

Q3. What is the correct procedure for entering a main road from a junction?

Answer a. Point a finger out of the window and hope someone will stop.
Answer b. Look straight ahead as you turn and wait for the bang.
Answer c. Position your vehicle across the lane and hope that drivers from the right will stop.
Answer d. Reverse out backwards into traffic flow and throw a fag butt at the car behind.

Q4. You see an ATV with two up minus helmets and without a number plate in your rear view mirror. What action do you take?

Answer a. None, he/she hasn't got a licence and Dad is well known so dont mess.
Answer b. Slow down to an almost dead stop and let it pass, its bound to get stopped by the Polis isn't it?
Answer c. Drive defensively, look for an oversized pothole then swerve to allow entry into it by the ATV.
Answer d. Hit the brakes hard and release boot lid. Take new boot occupants to polis HQ.

Q5. Which colour is used for a Polis car emergency beacon?

Answer a. They dont have one.
Answer b. They do have one its red and blue but nobody knows how to turn it off
Answer c. Its blue but its not compulsory.
Answer d. I can't answer I'm colour blind

Pass mark: 100TL

[Ragged Robin]

According to Dr. Avci, who helped draw up the measures "Foreign nationals returning to their home country will be allowed to drive there with but a TRNC license for up to three months, getting their original licenses back if they stay longer" Ses who? Certainly not the UK Government I suspect!

I also suspect that this is not really "aimed" at UK origin expats at all but other foreigners whose home country requirements for issuing a license are not as stringent as those in the UK - or indeed the EU although this aspect does not appear to have been addressed, including the fact that better tuition and more stringent tests of new young drivers would be more effective in improving road safety! As would enforcement of drink driving legislation!

At the end of the report it says the legislation will not come into force for two years, and a lot of things can happen in that time - particularly in Cyprus!!!!!!!!!!

[gary&shirley]

If you could manage to remove the mobile phone that most drivers seem to have stuck to their ears they may be able to drive a little better and of course if the rich parents didn't buy their spoilt kids very powerful sports cars which they cannot drive round roundabouts without coming off the road it would be far safer here.

[jofra]

I haven't read the article in full (only saw the headlines in a shop), but one point that (I think) has not been raised (even on here) is - what exactly happens to the "surrendered" licenses? Are they shredded? Or are they sold off/ donated to various shady characters for dubious purposes? Or are they retained, recorded and stored securely, in order to return them should the "Foreign National return to their home country".....
Who believes the last option is the one that would apply.....

[Bernie]

Oh dear, oh dear ... what will they think of next?

I've lost my UK licence ..... what a shame!

[Keithcaley]

Oh dear, oh dear ... what will they think of next?

I've lost my UK licence ..... what a shame!

Never mind - just report the loss to UK DVLA, they'll send you another....that will come in handy!

I can't believe that I just wrote that!

[Navek]

Hi Keith,
I was thinking that myself
But what happens if your UK Licence runs out before your next TRNC Licence renewal?

[waddo]

Navek, renewed my TRNC licence early this year - did not need to produce my UK licence to do it!

Jofra, as you need your UK licence to get your first TRNC licence, having "Lost" it means you can't "Exchange" it for a TRNC one - off you go and take a test please! It is the same system in use in all EU countries when you change your UK licence for the new EU countries licence you have to surrender your UK EU licence at that point. The country issuing the new licence should then return your UK EU licence to the DVLA. That stops you claiming a "Lost" licence renewal from the DVLA in UK as well - that is the theory and as we all know, in theory practice works but in practice theory does not work - lol.

Strangely, the whole system is based on "Trust", the UK trusts you not lie about where you live, the RoC trusts that your UK licence is valid, the TRNC trusts you have not lost your licence or use your mobile when driving and not to drink drive and to understand and know the laws regarding driving in the TRNC. The fall down in the whole process is that the local people along with all the foreign drivers (long term residents) adopt the old "When in Rome" philosophy and blame all faults on "the other driver".

[Navek]

Hi waddo,
I was referring to post 2019.
My TRNC Licence is due for renewal this year, 10 years on renewal will do me fine

[waddo]

2019 - sorry, did not catch that! Silly me, I only renewed my licence for 5 years last time but then it might just be enough and I may well have had enough of fighting the traffic by then - age sure does slow you down every year and you need all your wits about you these days, the time will come to hang up my licence forever I fear.

[Johnny Lee]

How will us giving up our UK licenses protect the little girl fast asleep hanging over dads arm on the front of a motor scooter with the mother clinging on on the back and none of them with crash helmets coming down the mountain rd. at Baspinar? Or the little girl with her head out of the sunroof of a Mercedes travelling at 50 K. on the main rd? . These 2 were just in the space of ten minutes.

Are the goverment getting more stupid ,or is it my imagination. ??

[waddo]

Or indeed how will it help all the other users of the roads once the Sunday lunch and drinking crew get back in their motors to get home for a snooze before heading out for a night at the bar? Some dangers are visible and easily picked up by the police - if only they worked at the weekends - but most are termed as normal driving, because it has become a habit, mainly picked up in crashed vehicles at the side of the roads and in the hospitals around the country. There has to be a start point and maybe this is it? Following the the start - if it ever happens - then the police will be very happy to stop anyone to check their licences - and other things!

The speed at which the country has grown has outstripped the infrastructure support for it and continues to do so, it is the same in every country - don't think so? Why did they not make the M1 6 lanes each side when they had the chance then? - it is just that this is a small country so you get to see everything in your face most of the time.

It is catch up time for the whole country on almost everything imaginable, some will work and some will fail but at least let us not knock the country for trying!

[jofra]

Jofra, as you need your UK licence to get your first TRNC licence, having "Lost" it means you can't "Exchange" it for a TRNC one .....

T'wasn't me what lost my license, Guv - it were that Bernie!
And actually (probably completely wrong!) I was thinking that Bernie was suggesting (if surrendered licenses were sold on ) was yet another excuse to add to the collection used by locals when pulled....

[Bernie]

jofra,

Ha, ha - don't you blame me

I was being flippant on 2 thoughts, firstly that I would never trust the TRNC authorities not to sell on my UK driving licence and secondly that I would never hand it over as I would tell them that I had lost it however I had not thought of Keith's suggestion above that I could reapply to DVLA telling them that I had lost it and get a replacement .......thanks Keith !!!

[waddo]

Bernie - that will work - unless of course the TRNC also inform the DVLA that you have lost your licence but have been issued a TRNC licence because you live here permanently! I always like the saying: If you are going to tell a lie, tell a BIG lie!

I have already handed over my UK licence to the police man who stopped me to check my documents on Friday afternoon at the Girne By-Pass roundabout boss.............................

[kibsolar1999]

Take in consideration:
if a cyprus solution can not be found and even if the new law from Mr Avci can not be introduced because of political and other trouble, that, from one day to the next in April 2019, the RoC may not accept EU driving licenses issued in the UK any more:
the UK is not member of the EU = your licence is invalid = please do get a new “non EU, but UK issued” driving licence.
Eg, a new national one or international one, both difficult to get for expats and both “non EU” licences.

And if B. Johnson makes the GCs pay for the Brexit a single penny, you can be quite sure that something will happen ….

The same (sorry, this is an invalid document) even the TCs could say and then you are maybe happy to get at least a valid TRNC licence to drive here.

If a cyprus solution is found till April 2019 (and you are a, say 185 day resident of the new cyprus) you have to get (just transfer) a new “Cyprus EU” licence according to EU directive number whatsoever and all is fine.
If a solution comes after April 2019, you have to get a “non EU citizen” residency and may have to do a driving test, as you are either not a holder of a valid licence at all or holder of a non EU licence.
So, maybe some of the Brexit supporters here will be quite happy that Cyprus finds a solution asap, to get a "trouble free" residency in a EU country and a “trouble free” EU driving license. Crazy world.