Massive increases in vet costs - with immediate effect

[Ragged Robin]

There is only one other animal ch arity in North Cyprus & that is Hope4Pets, but they have been very quiet. They attained their charity status very recently and at a "nonAGM" which was attended by several vets I wonder what was known at this time.....

This also harks back to the much earlier thread in which I was trying to define "Charity". The word "Charity" has come to mean a non profit making organisation which is permitted by the relevant authorites to collect money from the public for a defined purpose. I claim that this is a very limited view of the word, and in this context there are a number of Charities , including at least one Turkish Cypriot one, where people either look after animals themselves, help the Local Authorities with strays in pounds, campaign for better treatment of animals and/or try to find homes for strays and abandoned animals without calling on public funding and therefore not being registered. It is interesting, perhaps significant, that none of these, nor as Cally points out Hope4Pets , have, as far as Iknow, made any represenations regarding the increases.

[PoshinDevon]

I think we should all wait for a few days until things have been reviewed and possibly an explanation will be forthcoming.

No point in having a big bun fight now with people who have no facts to hand trying to second guess.

We and this includes all animal charities, vets and individuals as animal lovers want to do the best for our pets and all animals. Sometimes the brutal facts are we cannot save them all. In my opinion it’s firstly about education which I believe KAR do very well.

[Mr Davidson]

Robin.... sense of humour comes to mind - the terminology as a pun means I am not invested - its probably an Americanism that you may be unfamiliar with. Sheesh.....

Quote: have a dog in this fight

verb

to have a vested interest in the outcome of a situation....endquote

Why don't you ask Margaret rather than stressing yourself about it - get it straight from the horses mouth?

[Ragged Robin]

Mr.D. I am perfectly aware of the meaning of your pun, sorry if I hurt your feelings by not laughing. I though my comment showed I had picked up the pun.

I have no intention of contacting Margaret or any one else in KAR (not that I actuallly know anyone else as far as I am aware though there are obviously a lot here. KAR in my previous experience do not respond positively to correspondence from non members. I shall of course ask my usual Vet next time I see him, but I hope that will not be for a little while and of necessity one sided, , and meanwhile KAR should put their side of the case.

I quite agree with Posh that there is a lot of information we need before forming a fair judgement of what happened, but we do need that info. Having to judging from newspaper reports is far from ideal and I hope that KAR will shortly advise us what happened so that concerns can be addressed: and that this thread does not -as others with potential clash of interest have -, fade away and genuine concerns of British expats be buried. It seems whatever the rights or wrongs of the situation the Vets are genuinely angry, and the headline and first post of this thread are obviously such as will stir up concern and comment, and raises isssues that concern every Brit expat, not just dog lovers.

I hope that we shall soon see an explanation from KAR of how this very unfortunate mistake arose and an apology for misleadig people and then and only then the whole thing can be not forgotten, but put aside.

[PoshinDevon]

As I said it’s probably better to wait for the full facts to surface. I have no axe to grind with either KAR or the vets, both do sterling work on behalf of dogs and cats.

RR - Asking for an apology for misleading people infers you have already made up your own mind who is at fault. This may not be the case and it would not be wise to pre judge. If I were that concerned I would most certainly want to ask for full details direct from the horses mouth so to speak, whether that be KAR or the vets themselves. Relying on what has appeared in a newspaper is not always a good thing, journalistic licence to write whatever they interpret or view will best sell papers is often the driving force behind many articles.

Personally I have found KAR to be very helpful with advice and I have nothing but praise for our vet who from recent personal experience is very caring and compassionate to all animals. Finally there may of course not be any further response from KAR or the vets on this matter, often the two parties involved will discuss and settle things amicably and there is no law which states that whatever was discussed or agreed needs to be shared over an Internet forum. We may want to know the fine details of the so called misunderstanding but we have no right to that information. Of course as far as vets fees are concerned they are very reasonable here compared to the U.K. and if we want to know the charges for a particular procedure or treatment we can always ask the vet.

In my opinion there is no point getting stressed about something when we don’t have the full facts to hand. In actual fact best to try and not get stressed at all.

[Ragged Robin]

Posh: I did say myself that we need to wait a few days until we have all the information, but we should have that info.

KAR made a public accusation on this forum against a group or professional of, basically, overcharging. This has been refuted, again in public by a professional organisation who also suggested that there were underlying causes of dispute. The Chairperson of KAR has indicated that there was "confusion" which suggests they got it wrong.. Unfortunately, a lot of us (to my shame included myself) believed the accusations, This could lead to bad relations between the Vets and the expat community and even damage to a person's professional reputation and livelihood. I cannot understand how anyone, particularly a moderator, could think other than that KAR have a moral (if not legal) duty to explain the circumstances and make apologies for worry and distressed caused as appropriate. In my view it would also be considerably in the interests of KAR, a registered Charity , relying on public support and money, Everyone makes mistakes, it takes a decent, honest person (or organisation) to admit to them and try to make restitution!

I am seeing my Vet on a totally different issue soon. It may be that he will raise the issue, but in any case intend to ask for a copy of the list of current fees . I can put in off for a few days in the hope that by then I will know KARs side of the case and be in a better position to respond, which will also give me a chance to get a translator to try to achieve more tact than has previously been shown in this issue.

I do hope by then KAR will have submitted an explantion. If I ge the list I will try to copy it here (can someone tell me how() Perhaps others visiting their Vets will do likewise.

Meanwhile I am not stressed by the issue, just worried and let down, I am stressed by the attitudes of some people here.

[jofra]

A.N.Other - "What have the vets said as regards the reasons for the increases??"

"They need a new Mercedes..."

"...a public accusation on this forum against a group or profession..."

[PoshinDevon]

Posh: I did say myself that we need to wait a few days until we have all the information, but we should have that info.

KAR made a public accusation on this forum against a group or professional of, basically, overcharging. This has been refuted, again in public by a professional organisation who also suggested that there were underlying causes of dispute. The Chairperson of KAR has indicated that there was "confusion" which suggests they got it wrong.. Unfortunately, a lot of us (to my shame included myself) believed the accusations, This could lead to bad relations between the Vets and the expat community and even damage to a person's professional reputation and livelihood. I cannot understand how anyone, particularly a moderator, could think other than that KAR have a moral (if not legal) duty to explain the circumstances and make apologies for worry and distressed caused as appropriate. In my view it would also be considerably in the interests of KAR, a registered Charity , relying on public support and money, Everyone makes mistakes, it takes a decent, honest person (or organisation) to admit to them and try to make restitution!

I am seeing my Vet on a totally different issue soon. It may be that he will raise the issue, but in any case intend to ask for a copy of the list of current fees . I can put in off for a few days in the hope that by then I will know KARs side of
the case and be in a better position to respond, which will also give me a chance to get a translator to try to achieve
more tact than has previously been shown in this issue.
I do hope by then KAR will have submitted an explantion. If I ge the list I will try to copy it here (can someone tell me how() Perhaps others visiting their Vets will do likewise.
Meanwhile I am not stressed by the issue, just worried and let down, I am stressed by the attitudes of some people here.

RR - Firstly my post has no relevance to me being a moderator. Why you should chose to mention this I do not know.

Despite what you or I may think, neither of us have any right to an explanation. As I have said both sides may decide that after meeting and discussion the best course of action is to say nothing more on the matter or they may wish to put out a joint statement.

You have stated you will raise this with your vet so If you are that worried, concerned and let down then as has been suggested by others why not also contact KAR yourself?

In my opinion it is better not to pre judge either side and to let those directly involved sort out there differences.

[Ragged Robin]

A.N.Other - "What have the vets said as regards the reasons for the increases??"

"They need a new Mercedes..."

"...a public accusation on this forum against a group or profession..."

YES, Joffra, I did say that. If you will also read my last message , I said I was ashamed of myself for it. It was a joke in poor taste (as the politicians always say!) and I regret it. I also regret believing what KAR said, it was naive of me, and judging by past experience I should have known better.

However I do still believe that SOME of the Vets are recommending procedures and medication that is not stricltly necessary. The problem is that it will now be embarrassing to raise itwith Vet, as they unfortunately associate all English pet owners with KAR and can now point to it.

[Ragged Robin]

Posh: I am sorry but I always have difficulty in distinguishing which of your posts are as a normal poster and which as a moderator. You are so categoric in your statements and leave no room for dissension. Are you, by the way , a member of KAR ?

Please READ my posts. I did NOT say I would raise this matter with my Vet - I said I was seeing him on a totally different matter and will be embarrassed if HE raises the matter with me. Particularly as I will be querying the necessity of the treatment suggested for one of my dogs by one of his associates.. This occurred before the post by KAR and I am afraid he will consider my query part of the attack by KAR , For this reason alone an explanation by KAR to expats who use Vets is essential. It will also surely help KAR to demonstrate prove the misquotation was a genuine error or misunderstanding it will considerably improve their reputation. To shove the whole thing under the carpet, as you appear to wish to do, will only leave a nasty lingering suspicion with those of us who have already had bad experiences.

I have put off the vets visit until next week in the hope that KAR will do the decent thing and explain. either here or in Cyprus Today, how this unfortunate incident occurred .

I have also explained that I have good reasons for not contacting kAR on this or any other matter. If you or any other poster wants to hear about these, I will be glad to meet them and explain. To put all the unfortunate episodes here, even if approprtiate which I am not sure about, would take too long and would be tedious.

[PoshinDevon]

RR - My concern was why you feel the need to mention I am a moderator. For your information I have chosen not to have two usernames (One as a moderator and one as a Kibkom member). In my opinion this is not necessary. I have no reason to hide behind a different identity when posting. I also believe it is obvious when I am posting a comment on a topic as opposed to moderating a topic.

Whether I am a member of KAR is not really any of your business. As I have said I admire the work that KAR do and have a good understanding and experience of the pressure they are under every day to continue to do what they do. I have also recently had first hand experience of how caring the vets are out here and have no issues with the service or the prices they charge.

My thoughts on this topic are that it is not good to pre judge, demand apologies or blame anyone when the full facts are not known. I will leave it at that.

[Cally]

Maybe put your moderators hat on PoshinDevon & close/lock the thread as it is going round in circles........

[elizabeth]

I think I must be missing something here, as I understand the original post KAR were annoyed at the increase affecting animals in their care, they didn't have any information as to how this would affect "ordinary" pet owners.
Surely if anyone has concerns about the costs to their own animals they need to contact their usual vet, not expect KAR to do it for them.
KAR do a good job with limited resources, as do the other charities on the island, I just can't understand the constant grumbling and **** stirring that some people seem to thrive on.

[Ragged Robin]

RR - My concern was why you feel the need to mention I am a moderator. For your information I have chosen not to have two usernames (One as a moderator and one as a Kibkom member). In my opinion this is not necessary. I have no reason to hide behind a different identity when posting. I also believe it is obvious when I am posting a comment on a topic as opposed to moderating a topic.

Whether I am a member of KAR is not really any of your business. As I have said I admire the work that KAR do and have a good understanding and experience of the pressure they are under every day to continue to do what they do. I have also recently had first hand experience of how caring the vets are out here and have no issues with the service or the prices they charge.

My thoughts on this topic are that it is not good to pre judge, demand apologies or blame anyone when the full facts are not known. I will leave it at that.

Are not moderators required to declare an interest.

As for your last para I have always agreed that we cannot prejudge without the facts, there are probably faults on both sides, but KAR have tacitly admitted to an error. I just hope KAR will explain their point of view soon.

As for Cally's post , that is just what I was afraid of. Frankly attempts to sweep this issue under the carpet leave a very nasty taste. But I have other things to do than argue with the prejudiced and I in any case I am putting it on one side till next week by which time I hope KAR will have had sufficinet time to do any investigations they deem necessary.

Additionally I and other dogs owners (even you presumably) need to know what charges are to be for us in future. It would be better if they were posted here and published in the press, than everyone having to ask individual vets, who may well not be involved

[PoshinDevon]

RR - My concern was why you feel the need to mention I am a moderator. For your information I have chosen not to have two usernames (One as a moderator and one as a Kibkom member). In my opinion this is not necessary. I have no reason to hide behind a different identity when posting. I also believe it is obvious when I am posting a comment on a topic as opposed to moderating a topic.

Whether I am a member of KAR is not really any of your business. As I have said I admire the work that KAR do and have a good understanding and experience of the pressure they are under every day to continue to do what they do. I have also recently had first hand experience of how caring the vets are out here and have no issues with the service or the prices they charge.

My thoughts on this topic are that it is not good to pre judge, demand apologies or blame anyone when the full facts are not known. I will leave it at that.

Are not moderators required to declare an interest.

Whilst again it is not your business, I have nothing to declare. Please don’t pre judge and presume I have an interest.

As for your last para I have always agreed that we cannot prejudge without the facts, there are probably faults on both sides, but KAR have tacitly admitted to an error. I just hope KAR will explain their point of view soon.

As for Cally's post , that is just what I was afraid of. Frankly attempts to sweep this issue under the carpet leave a very nasty taste. But I have other things to do than argue with the prejudiced and I in any case I am putting it on one side till next week by which time I hope KAR will have had sufficinet time to do any investigations they deem necessary.

Additionally I and other dogs owners (even you presumably) need to know what charges are to be for us in future. It would be better if they were posted here and published in the press, than everyone having to ask individual vets, who may well not be involved

[kerry 6138]

It states on Kar original post signature strip,that they dont monitor the posting and tells you what to do if you have any queries.
wont let me copy text from that part of the post so you need to go back to the bottom of the original post.

[ifonly]

As a few other have pointed out KAR had said right from the beginning that the increases to members of the public are not yet known to KAR[/i]
So it may be or it may be not that the increases to the public are different to those passed on for KAR animals.
RR in your post (no 46) You say I shall nobly resist the temptation to say "I told you so" but I did advise caution and getting the full facts before taking action - so you now assume from what you have read in the Cyprus Today that you do have the full facts - if that is so then how naïve !!!
In your post (No 50) - you say "exactly how much increase we may expect to pay on" - have you spoken to your vet about any increases for you or the public ? Is it KARs job to do that for you ?
In your post (No 54) you say I have no intention of contacting Margaret or any one else in KAR (not that I actuallly know anyone else as far as I am aware though there are obviously a lot here. KAR in my previous experience do not respond positively to correspondence from non members. - lots of Non Members contact (by email, by phone by walk ins) KAR on a daily basis - residents, tourists, authorities, people from UK and elsewhere - they are all dealt with, as per their reason for contacting KAR needs, regardless of whether they are a member of not - They are NOT a members only Charity. You also state I hope that we shall soon see an explanation from KAR of how this very unfortunate mistake arose and an apology for misleadig people and then and only then the whole thing can be not forgotten, but put aside. - again the presumption by you is that KAR made a mistake - presumption based on what "reported " in the Cyprus Today - of course that report MUST be accurate mustn't it ?
In your post (no 56) you say "The Chairperson of KAR has indicated that there was "confusion" which suggests they got it wrong".. - why does that automatically suggest that it was KAR who got it wrong ?????
And so I could go on and on and on.
Maybe what you could have done is to have looked at the original message and then thought "Oh if the prices have gone up for KAR that much then maybe I had better check with my vet how much they have gone up for me "
I think as others have said we should all wait until we have an update/follow on from KAR who hopefully will provide one once they have finished discussing THEIR situation/prices with the relevant authorities. Obviously they should be concerned with any increases - they have many cats and dogs to look after and provide medical care for - increases will affect them (and the stray cats and dogs in TRNC) immensely.

Sorry I don't know why some parts have shown in bold !!!

[stellasstar1]

Well I have just been to the vets for my cats 2 injections that he has every 3 weeks and was the same price as it's always been, so don't know if all vets have increased the prices or just some.

[gary&shirley]

Took our dog to the vet's yesterday morning for a quick review of a known issue and a steroid injection, 20tl in total, you would not get that service in the UK for that price.