Any one concerned ?

[kiplet]

Turkey sending teachers to teach religion to secondary in TRNC even though TRNC have teachers.
TRNC now reliant on Turkey for water supply possibly in the near future Electric..
Any one concerned on more and more Turkey controlling TRNC

[jofra]

Yes; very much so - the more that a country/group/individual becomes more dependent on another country/group/individual, the more vulnerable and open to domination they become. The direction in which Turkey appears to be moving adds to that concern, and the fact that no-one but Turkey recognises the TRNC increases that vulnerability...
If Turkey chose suddenly to institute any form of radical change, no other country would intervene or provide any effectual protection to the people in the TRNC, be they expats or native (Turkish) Cypriots....
The expats would at least have the option to flee (probably with nothing), perhaps with some evacuation plan....

[tingtang]

He who pays the Piper calls the tune!

In reality TRNC is no more than a province of Turkey, being totally reliant upon them for survival. Residing here we cannot fail to notice the complete apathy of Turkish Cypriots towards the Islamic religion. In our village there is an old single tower Mosque - nobody goes. So it was decided to build a new huge Mosque, a truly beautiful twin tower building in stunning white and gold - nobody goes -the only difference we have noticed is that we now get to hear the Call To Prayer in stereo from both Mosques. I have never seen more than one or two cars parked outside there apart from Funerals. Name me even the smallest Mini Market which does not have shelves stacked with alcohol.

Not surprising therefore that the pro Islamic Paymasters have determined that TRNC Teachers will not achieve the Islamic goal of change that they desire.

tt.

[Groucho]

It is my understanding that the plethora of new mosques are Saudi funded.

[frontalman]

As a non-drinker it will take me 5 minutes to convert to Sufism, so I'll be alright.

[Deniz1]

Unconcerned

[sophie]

Blimey, no alcohol, long dresses, hair covered, face covered, not allow to drive no mixing in the pools or sea and living in a patriarchy fills me with dread Really sorry to say but as a woman it sounds dreadful, however as I have absolutely no say in the matter I can't get too concerned.

[Ragged Robin]

Headscalves ( such as the Queen used to wear for riding! not the burqa) and long skirts yes, but surely so far they are permitted or even encouraged, but not obligatory.? But the others? Surely this i s Turkey we are talking about, not Iraq or Saudi Arabia! I have certainly seen women wearing headscalves driving cars.

Non the less I am concerned, but I do agree with you,Sophie, that there is not much point in worrying about something we are powerless to do anythng about....... We have to accept that we abrogated some rights (including enfranchment) when we settled here.

As Maurice Chevalier said when asked what it was like to be eighty years old "Think of the alternative"!

[frontalman]

A spiritual life is more fulfilling, surely?

[tingtang]

A spiritual life is more fulfilling, surely?

For whom? - the Turkish Cypriots appear not to subscribe to that notion, they have a free choice.

However I am not wishing to commence a debate regarding the pro's and con's of Islam but, returning to the thread subject, I was told today (and this is heresay) that the schools are to drop English lessons to accommodate the Islamic teaching lessons!!

If that is indeed the case is it possible that the TC Gv't could take a more backward step? What could limit the career opportunities more for young Turkish Cypriots considering the limited opportunities available here and English being the accepted international standard for so many professions such as medicine, legal and many other types of employment. Even the less academically gifted have opportunities in Tourism if they can converse i English.

East Mediterranean University here in Gazi teaches in English has more than 3,00o students, what a disadvantage for home country students having to start from scratch unless they can afford private English lessons, when those 3 thousand students arrive from middle east, Asian and African countries all having a command of the English language.

If what I learned today is correct and, noting Erdogan still has 11 years of his engineered term of office still to run, what the future holds in store for this country is anybodies guess.

tt.

[sophie]

Exactly tingtang, that's why those of us of a certain age, can't worry about what is going to happen in 11 years.

[Groucho]

Exactly tingtang, that's why those of us of a certain age, can't worry about what is going to happen in 11 years.

Oh but we should - we all have a responsibility to pass on a state of affairs that is fair. equal and rewards merit. Religious dogma has no part to play in this or any other state.

[sophie]

I can't worry about it Groucho because as a "Visitor" here I can do nothing about it, much as I would love to. When that particular aspect of living here changes, then I will probably get on my Soap Box!!

[Ragged Robin]

For once I entirely agree with Groucho, and also with tintang, particularly that if Turkish Cypriots do not learn English (or at any rate the American version!) they will be seriously disadvantaged in developing personally and as a race and further inhibited in competition in the wider world. But what exactly do you think we CAN do , Groucho?

As one who taught English for pre University courses here (and still occasionally give the occasional help with the language for friends). I have been sorry to note that Turks and Turkish Cypriots who had done some English at school had a less sound basis than most other races. and also to note that those whose English is best seem to have learned it with an American accent.

With my flak jacket and tin hat firmly on, may I respectfully suggest that the best thing Brits - whether expats, swallows or tourists - can do to respect our own native country and to help our Cypriot friends, neighbours and business acquaintances, is to make sure we , ourselves, speak and write correct English.

In particular, one of the first things I learned about teaching (and learning) a foreign language is not to use slang, as it dates itself before you have even mastered it!

[kayc]

"If Turkish Cypriots do not learn English (or at any rate the American version!) they will be seriously disadvantaged in developing personally and as a race and further inhibited in competition in the wider world."

Seriously!?
1. at any rate the "American version"? As if that is not universally acceptable? (FYI - 96 of the 100 most common English words are Germanic.)

2. The Cypriots will be disadvantaged in developing as a race?

Perhaps you should review the history books. The Ottoman empire was mighty, and dominated this part of the world for centuries. They were hardly disadvantaged as a race. OMG! Turkey is a great country, as is their culture and history.

Your entire post has an air of supremacy, and I find it offensive.

I'm an American, and regard myself as a guest here - I'm working hard to learn THEIR language and customs. I see nothing fatalistic about the Turkish/Islamic influence here. It's part of their historic culture and should be respected as such. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. If you find that uncomfortable, perhaps a relocation to your native country is advisable?

[sophie]

kayc, as a Brit I find some of the posts towards the Turks offensive as well. Believe me, I have major complaints about events and money I have lost in my 13 years here, but the longer I live here the more I accept the status quo, poorer though I may be.

[Ragged Robin]

i am sorry you find my post offensive kayc, it was not intended to be , certainly not to Turks or Turkish Cypriots and only jocularly to Americans.

All languages have developed in different ways, and there are many different dialects. To teach it is necessary to go back as far as possible to the basic language and in English, British English (despite being evolved from several others -not just German - ) is in my view the nearest the original and the best for English. What about Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders etc., not to mention the Scotch, Irish and Welsh!

Many Turks from the mainland actually feel the same about Cypriot Turkish, and I have had the few words I used to speak in Greek being severely criticised by an Athenian because of my Cypriot accent.
t
If I was criticising anyone it was the BRITISH education system, because it does not teach our own language well!

Whether we like it or not English (whether British or American) is the lingua franca of the modern world, and those wishing to progress globally in it will be considerably disadvantaged if they cannot speak it, Turkish Cypriots are already unfairly disadvantaged by international non-recognition
and need all the help linguistically they can get . In an increasingly global society, there has to be one common language and it seems English (the language of science and medicine for instance) is currently it. That is a fact, I am not responsible for it.

By the way I also am trying to learn Turkish, and I have studied Turkish HIstory , the Ottomans and particularly Cypriot history.

I find YOUR post offensive and if you consider mine has an air of supremacy , I think you should take avice about an inferiority complex

PS Would you (and Sophie) please define your terms and make it clear when you are talking about mainland Turks and when about Turkish Cypriots

[sophie]

RR, my reply was definitely not directed at your goodself but towards some Expats who appear to think they know everything about both KKTC and Turkey as a whole but like me, probably know virtually nothing. I have to admit I am tad Eats Shoots and Leaves when it comes to the English language. My present grouse is directed at TV announcers regarding the pronunciation of COUP. (Sorry. completely off topic)

[kayc]

Robin - I don't have an inferiority complex, but I am sensitive to disparaging remarks regarding other cultures, and your 2 comments hit me in that manner. I wouldn't be too concerned about the Turkish speakers, whether from Turkey or the TRNC/Cyprus on being disadvantaged in "development as a race" if they don't have command of the English language. A couple hundred years from now all the people may be speaking Mandarin. Who knows!

I come from the USA and racism is at an all time high in America, and Islamophobia promoted globally - and I see both being used to further white supremacy. I find myself extra cautious when referring to other cultures and their customs for this reason. Tah Tah.

[Ragged Robin]

OK Sophie I did not think it was,, sorry if I gave that impression. And you were not one of those whose English I have trouble with!

My problem with your post was one that frequently occurs, in that people say "Turks" and it is not always clear if they mean mainlanders or Turkish Cypriots. We are all inclined to get a bit ambiguous when posting perhaps in a bit of a hurry.

I do agree that some Expats do seem to overrate their own knowledge and a lot dont try to find out - the "just here for the beer" (or sun, sea or whatever brigade), I try to work on the theory that the more you learn about any subject , the less likely you are to suffer from age dementia.

[Ragged Robin]

Over sensitive then kayc? I keep reading my post over and over and cannot see anything in it that is in the least Islamphobic which I certainly am not.
I am a strong supporter of the case for recognition of the TRNC , and the friends I mentioned in the earlier post are all of Islamic races

I cant worry about what will happen in 100 years, but I do worry about the future of Turkish Cypriot young people in the next 20 or 30 years.

[silverfir]

RR, must point out that in your earlier post you referred to SCOTCH as a form of the English language. I would like to point out that SCOTCH is an alcoholic drink. Scottish was the word you meant I am sure

[Ragged Robin]

Oops So sorry Silver Fir, I of course know better, slip of the fingers, eve.n though I was using the word as a nationality as much as a language
Indeed some would say the language should be Gaelic, but that would lead us ot.

[silverfir]

RR, you're digging the hole deeper. Scotch is neither a language nor a nationality, it is simply a magnificent elixir that may be consumed for pleasure or medicinal benefits. Cheers hic

[jofra]

And then Gaelic (not to be confused with Garlic) as a noun may refer to Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic, Manx Gaelic and further sub-divisions and derivatives, with reference made to "Scottish" and "Scots" [language]...... here.... while (as stated) "Scotch" refers to uisce (or uisge)...

[Ragged Robin]

uisge-beatha = Water of life. And yes I have read "Whisky Galore" too

Now what have I got wrong this time ?

[silverfir]

Nice one RR. Glad you still have your sense of humour. It's essential to all of us who are entering our dotage. Oh, sorry if that doesn't apply, I was thinking of myself:)

[Ragged Robin]

[Ragged Robin]

Oh, why can't the English learn to set
A good example to people whose
English is painful to your ears?
The Scotch and the Irish leave you close to tears.
There even are places where English completely
Disappears. In America, they haven't used it for years!
Why can't the English teach their children how to speak?
Norwegians learn Norwegian; the Greeks have taught their
Greek. In France every Frenchman knows
His language fro "A" to "Zed"
The French never care what they do, actually,
As long as they pronounce in properly.
Arabians learn Arabian with the speed of summer lightning.
And Hebrews learn it backwards,
Which is absolutely frightening.
But use proper English you're regarded as a freak.
Why can't the English,
Why can't the English learn to speak?



Slightly off topic, but it always amuses me. Sorry kayc, dont blame me, blame George Bernard Shaw!

[kayc]

it's ok Robin. I've got thin skin at my advanced age, but it heals quickly with a bit of humor. What is important is that we strive to communicate AND have patience to understand each other. Language was meant to bring us together.
(unless of course you believe the story of Babel )

[Ragged Robin]

I know just what you mean about a thin skin kayc, I have one too which is why I reacted to your accusations of me.

I do so agree with communication: unfortunately misunderstanding abound even when one is speaking the same language, as demonstrated here!!I I think the tower of babel won, which is why I think it so important that Turkish Cypriots have every opportunity to increase their ability to communicate on the world stage. Cheers