Brexit enquiry…possibly

[waz-24-7]

Interesting possibility for an enquiry.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/628226

The most valuable feature of democracy is that it has built in error correction.

Of course I’ve signed it.

[jimm]

Can't you just give it up

[frugal90]

Thanks for the link,

Signed

[ginge]

Interesting possibility for an enquiry.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/628226

The most valuable feature of democracy is that it has built in error correction.

Of course I’ve signed it.

You're ill mate.

Seek help.

[waddo]

191,830 and growing.

[frugal90]

I think the momentum to re-visit this will become un-stoppable.

[PoshinDevon]

Firstly it was a democratic decision by the U.K. to leave the EU. Nothing wrong with signing a petition to revisit, however the decision cannot and will not be reversed. Given he U.K. left only 3 years ago, that imo is insufficient time to see if the U.K. will or will not benefit from leaving.

The arguments will continue but to rejoin the EU will not be something that happens in the next 5 years.Then of course once the criteria for “rejoining” are known it is then that politicians and the public can decide if it is the UKs interest. Whichever party is in government will weigh up votes v rejoining the EU. If and it’s a big IF it did happen would It will not be for 10 years at least.

I still suspect that rejoining under new terms and conditions may not be as palatable or acceptable as many think.

I am all for democracy so let’s see how far this ball rolls.

[frugal90]

excellent

I believe the momentum will build and build to re-visit the brexit vote, to a level where political parties can no longer ignore it.

Now that people realise that the UK is like a slow puncture economically and their passports less powerful.

Bring it on!!

[frugal90]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -economist

[Kanonier]

191,830 and growing.
[/quote

Zooming up - 206 more votes in 4 hours! Wow.

[Brazen]

Interesting possibility for an enquiry.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/628226

The most valuable feature of democracy is that it has built in error correction.

Of course I’ve signed it.

You're ill mate.


Seek help.

[Brazen]

Interesting possibility for an enquiry.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/628226

The most valuable feature of democracy is that it has built in error correction.

Of course I’ve signed it.

You're ill mate.




Seek help.

He works for and is paid by the rejoin campaign, or whatever their latest name is !

[Brazen]

191,830 and growing.
[/quote

Zooming up - 206 more votes in 4 hours! Wow.

Only another 15m to go!

[waz-24-7]

Firstly it was a democratic decision by the U.K. to leave the EU. Nothing wrong with signing a petition to revisit, however the decision cannot and will not be reversed. Given he U.K. left only 3 years ago, that imo is insufficient time to see if the U.K. will or will not benefit from leaving.

The arguments will continue but to rejoin the EU will not be something that happens in the next 5 years.Then of course once the criteria for “rejoining” are known it is then that politicians and the public can decide if it is the UKs interest. Whichever party is in government will weigh up votes v rejoining the EU. If and it’s a big IF it did happen would It will not be for 10 years at least.

I still suspect that rejoining under new terms and conditions may not be as palatable or acceptable as many think.

I am all for democracy so let’s see how far this ball rolls.

The petition is for a an enquiry only upon the what and how the whole Brexit thing was run and implemented.
The clear hoodwinking of the gullible ( red bus .. campaign for example) is now very very clear

The public , at least those interested , have a right to know the failings of the government and the Brexit party at the time .
Possibly and only possibly Posh. Democracy will see a rectification of the error.

[PoshinDevon]

Waz - Two sides were involved in the campaign.

Have you forgotten the “project fear” words put out by the remain side. Even Lord Rose, Head of the Remain campaign has since said ( ITV Interview in 2021) that the economic dangers of Brexit were exaggerated. He also said that he regretted the attempt to exaggerate the risks, there was no Armageddon the day after leaving and that the pluses and minuses of leaving would not be fully known for many years. He also admitted he was only a figurehead, was not happy with the remain campaign and should have been stronger to stop the negativity.

Red bus v Project Fear. The bus won!

[waz-24-7]

For those who continue to deny the loss and for those that actually realise the folly.
Petition bones are :

We call upon the Government to hold a Public Inquiry into the impact of Brexit
The benefits that were promised if the UK exited the European Union have not been delivered, so we call upon the Government to hold a Public Inquiry to assess the impact that Brexit has had on this country and its citizens.

More details
It is time that the people of this country were told the truth about Brexit, good or bad. We deserve to know how Brexit is impacting on trade, the economy, opportunities for young people and how it has affected the rights of individuals. This can only be done by an independent Public Inquiry, free from ideology and the opinions of vested interests.

[Brinsley]

Well done Waz
Forget the National Socialism trolls, they'll soon be too busy supporting Trumps return to power!
Voted

[waz-24-7]

Waz - Two sides were involved in the campaign.

Have you forgotten the “project fear” words put out by the remain side. Even Lord Rose, Head of the Remain campaign has since said ( ITV Interview in 2021) that the economic dangers of Brexit were exaggerated. He also said that he regretted the attempt to exaggerate the risks, there was no Armageddon the day after leaving and that the pluses and minuses of leaving would not be fully known for many years. He also admitted he was only a figurehead, was not happy with the remain campaign and should have been stronger to stop the negativity.

Red bus v Project Fear. The bus won!

Oh
So we have seen the £350 million going into the NHS as shown on the pied pipers red bus. The NHS is broken like never before !!
Did you really believe 3 million Turks would line up to enter the UK. Gullible or what !
So in fact you could be right and I’m totally wrong. There has been no declines , losses or difficulties. Brexit is going to be a great success as long as we give it say 10 yrs.
How many people will have suffered loss and hardship whilst those like you say. Hey it’ll be alright. Believe me even tho I can’t tell you how !!

What do you expect to happen please?
Has anyone, yes anyone , made some sort of plan , road map or is it once again wait and see.
I think you’re lack of understanding or indeed interest in when and how is part of the the slow puncture cited by another poster.

[Brinsley]

Interesting possibility for an enquiry.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/628226

The most valuable feature of democracy is that it has built in error correction.

Of course I’ve signed it.

You're ill mate.


Seek help.

[Brinsley]

Difficult to determine who wrote what to whom but if anyone is 'You're ill mate', 'seek help'; maybe the propaganda £350million a week saved by brexit was actually used on the NHS as promised, the healthcare system would take notice of these symptoms and take care of those that are, 'you're ill ....' (Mates are available at chemist's) & 'seek help'. Unfortunately they're on strike! No extra monies ever came forwad from the 'windfall' because of.......YES I CAN SMELL IT, was it chicken? was it lamb? NO! IT WAS BULL...................

[PoshinDevon]

Waz - Two sides were involved in the campaign.

Have you forgotten the “project fear” words put out by the remain side. Even Lord Rose, Head of the Remain campaign has since said ( ITV Interview in 2021) that the economic dangers of Brexit were exaggerated. He also said that he regretted the attempt to exaggerate the risks, there was no Armageddon the day after leaving and that the pluses and minuses of leaving would not be fully known for many years. He also admitted he was only a figurehead, was not happy with the remain campaign and should have been stronger to stop the negativity.

Red bus v Project Fear. The bus won!

Oh
So we have seen the £350 million going into the NHS as shown on the pied pipers red bus. The NHS is broken like never before !!
Did you really believe 3 million Turks would line up to enter the UK. Gullible or what !
So in fact you could be right and I’m totally wrong. There has been no declines , losses or difficulties. Brexit is going to be a great success as long as we give it say 10 yrs.
How many people will have suffered loss and hardship whilst those like you say. Hey it’ll be alright. Believe me even tho I can’t tell you how !!

What do you expect to happen please?
Has anyone, yes anyone , made some sort of plan , road map or is it once again wait and see.
I think you’re lack of understanding or indeed interest in when and how is part of the the slow puncture cited by another poster.

Your not understanding my post, but no surprise.

All I said was there were TWO campaigns. To put it bluntly both told porkies. However; if you know anything about politics and politicians that is the way they operate. They want your vote. In the end the red bus won.

I do think you will need to accept that if this enquiry happens it will probably take a couple of years minimum but possibly longer. Then it will be discussed, debated, examined and pulled apart. In amongst all of this there will likely be a at least one GE, maybe a change of government. Time will march on and as Lord Rose stated clearly; the benefits or not of Brexit would not be fully known for 10 years. Any rejoining will have to be negotiated and any so called benefits weighed up against the economic and international performance of the U.K. at that time. Negotiations to rejoin will all take time and possibly may not be as easy or even as acceptable as some may think.

Unlike you, I believe in democracy and am more than happy to see how far this ball will roll, but understand that we will not be rejoining the EU anytime soon. I would suggest containing any excitement for a while.

[waz-24-7]

Waz - Two sides were involved in the campaign.

Have you forgotten the “project fear” words put out by the remain side. Even Lord Rose, Head of the Remain campaign has since said ( ITV Interview in 2021) that the economic dangers of Brexit were exaggerated. He also said that he regretted the attempt to exaggerate the risks, there was no Armageddon the day after leaving and that the pluses and minuses of leaving would not be fully known for many years. He also admitted he was only a figurehead, was not happy with the remain campaign and should have been stronger to stop the negativity.

Red bus v Project Fear. The bus won!

Oh
So we have seen the £350 million going into the NHS as shown on the pied pipers red bus. The NHS is broken like never before !!
Did you really believe 3 million Turks would line up to enter the UK. Gullible or what !
So in fact you could be right and I’m totally wrong. There has been no declines , losses or difficulties. Brexit is going to be a great success as long as we give it say 10 yrs.
How many people will have suffered loss and hardship whilst those like you say. Hey it’ll be alright. Believe me even tho I can’t tell you how !!

What do you expect to happen please?
Has anyone, yes anyone , made some sort of plan , road map or is it once again wait and see.
I think you’re lack of understanding or indeed interest in when and how is part of the the slow puncture cited by another poster.

Your not understanding my post, but no surprise.

All I said was there were TWO campaigns. To put it bluntly both told porkies. However; if you know anything about politics and politicians that is the way they operate. They want your vote. In the end the red bus won.

I do think you will need to accept that if this enquiry happens it will probably take a couple of years minimum but possibly longer. Then it will be discussed, debated, examined and pulled apart. In amongst all of this there will likely be a at least one GE, maybe a change of government. Time will march on and as Lord Rose stated clearly; the benefits or not of Brexit would not be fully known for 10 years. Any rejoining will have to be negotiated and any so called benefits weighed up against the economic and international performance of the U.K. at that time. Negotiations to rejoin will all take time and possibly may not be as easy or even as acceptable as some may think.

Unlike you, I believe in democracy and am more than happy to see how far this ball will roll, but understand that we will not be rejoining the EU anytime soon. I would suggest containing any excitement for a while.

The topic is not about rejoin. However you know my views on that.
The members of UK public that have signed are asking and rightly so for an enquiry into the nitty gritty of Brexit.
Please read the wording it’s very clear.
It is abundantly clear that you hold no answers or positives to offer on Brexit. Your wait and see just doesn’t cut it. Your take that it’s only 3 yrs is misplaced too. Damage commenced within hours of the shock result. Do you not understand that?

Upon democracy.

The most valuable feature of democracy is that it has built in error correction.

You seem to ignore that tho you profess to understand the democratic process.

[Kanonier]

Well done Waz
Forget the National Socialism trolls, they'll soon be too busy supporting Trumps return to power!
Voted

I would be intrigued to know how you managed to vote if you are not, by your own admission, British. Have you been economical with the truth, you naughty person?

[Brinsley]

Dual nationality, dear boy!

[waz-24-7]

Dual nationality, dear boy!

Lucky man!!
Dual Nationality
I’ve applied for an Irish passport which at least will overcome the travel and cost of difficulties.
Dual Nationality of course

[erol]

Unlike you, I believe in democracy ....

Personally I do not believe democracy exists. Only degrees of it.

Then again I do not think chairs exist either. Only objects with degrees of 'chairishness', from none through to total.

Personally this model helps me a lot. Once you choose to believe that only degrees of chairishness exist then it is is always evident that what is or is not in reality a chair, depends on perspective. A small object may well have more 'chairisness' to a child than it does to an adult. for the child perfect for sitting on, for the adult useless to sit on. Same object.

Personally I am depressed by these 'binary' assertions assertions like 'unlike you, I believe in democracy' and those in the petition that have so characterised the entire debate over however many years it is. To me I do not see that they get us anywhere. Ever could do so ?

I respect the validity of the people saying in a direct vote that they wished to leave the EU.

I do not think we need an inquiry into what the impacts of brexit were. Pointless waste of money. All it could produce is speculation.

I do think we need an inquiry that asks the question 'with the benefit of hindsight how could we have done it better, in a way that would/could have increased the degree of democratic legitimacy over the entire process.' For me it is hard to imagine someone could believe in democracy and not want to do this.

I think we should do this because there is the possibility of a next time. It will next happen if and when enough democratic pressure forces it too. Which is why I also find discussion about when that might happen or how it might happen entirely depressing as well. That is all just more speculation that can not get us anywhere as far as I can see.

Can we not spend at least a little time on what we might have done better, in hindsight ? Because actually we all are democratic.

To some degree

[erol]

Ill try and get the ball rolling.

Should the threshold for such a decision made in such a binary way have been higher than 50% or not ? Should the next vote , if and when, be more than 50%.

Personally I think it should have been higher, for democracies sake, and I think the same for next time. What do you all think ?

This is the kind of discussion that would interest me, in case anyone out there cares.

[erol]

here is a another (ill try and stop at 3)

given the binary nature of the choice given directly to the people should any exit or entry process prohibit cliff edge changes of state and instead require a sequence of pre planned stages, each of which will require some form 'checking with the people'. stop here. go back. go on. etc

Personally I think slow entry and slow exit has got to be better than straight in , straight out and matron knows it

[erol]

OK here is the third - I hope and intend this will be my last 'talking to myself' follow up to my own post.

in hindsight

should 'we' in the widest sense, try and make such decisions in a less frenzied and polarised atmosphere if that is possible ? at every level of scale. from the individual to 'government' and 'press' and 'leave/remain' groups and so on ?

Personally all I can speak to is the individual level in that question. I do think looking back at how I behaved in those terms is worth doing (to some degree) in that it at least has some hope of doing it better if and when we ever decide to do so. Might be a tiny hope but its more than any 'inquiry into the effects of Brexit' might bring imo.

ill try and shut up now.

[Mowgli597]

Dual nationality, dear boy!

Lucky man!!
Dual Nationality
I’ve applied for an Irish passport which at least will overcome the travel and cost of difficulties.
Dual Nationality of course

And we were granted exactly that last December!

It’s now a joy and pleasure once more to be able to travel with impunity across the green line (with our 12 month TOM)

[Brinsley]

Eligible for an Italian passport (EU) all descendants paperwork in place however, the Italian Consulate on the Greek Cyprus side refused to accept my TRNC address (Greek workers); spoke to Ankara Embassy who said I had to apply to their nearest Consulate of my abode but didn't accept my account of South side refusal to do so. Next option was Cardiff whilst UK bound but informed all my previous passports were to be surrendered during their valuation period and if successful would be confiscated even before issuing an Italian one!

You think TRNC bureaucracy is bad!!

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Well done Waz
Forget the National Socialism trolls, they'll soon be too busy supporting Trumps return to power!
Voted

Can you see Nazis in the room now?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Interesting possibility for an enquiry.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/628226

The most valuable feature of democracy is that it has built in error correction.

Of course I’ve signed it.

4F49F87D-F61D-419D-927E-37883AEAD816.gif (66.99 KiB) Viewed 1328 times

[PoshinDevon]

Oh
So we have seen the £350 million going into the NHS as shown on the pied pipers red bus. The NHS is broken like never before !!
Did you really believe 3 million Turks would line up to enter the UK. Gullible or what !
So in fact you could be right and I’m totally wrong. There has been no declines , losses or difficulties. Brexit is going to be a great success as long as we give it say 10 yrs.
How many people will have suffered loss and hardship whilst those like you say. Hey it’ll be alright. Believe me even tho I can’t tell you how !!

What do you expect to happen please?
Has anyone, yes anyone , made some sort of plan , road map or is it once again wait and see.
I think you’re lack of understanding or indeed interest in when and how is part of the the slow puncture cited by another poster.

Your not understanding my post, but no surprise.

All I said was there were TWO campaigns. To put it bluntly both told porkies. However; if you know anything about politics and politicians that is the way they operate. They want your vote. In the end the red bus won.

I do think you will need to accept that if this enquiry happens it will probably take a couple of years minimum but possibly longer. Then it will be discussed, debated, examined and pulled apart. In amongst all of this there will likely be a at least one GE, maybe a change of government. Time will march on and as Lord Rose stated clearly; the benefits or not of Brexit would not be fully known for 10 years. Any rejoining will have to be negotiated and any so called benefits weighed up against the economic and international performance of the U.K. at that time. Negotiations to rejoin will all take time and possibly may not be as easy or even as acceptable as some may think.

Unlike you, I believe in democracy and am more than happy to see how far this ball will roll, but understand that we will not be rejoining the EU anytime soon. I would suggest containing any excitement for a while.

The topic is not about rejoin. However you know my views on that.
The members of UK public that have signed are asking and rightly so for an enquiry into the nitty gritty of Brexit.
Please read the wording it’s very clear.
It is abundantly clear that you hold no answers or positives to offer on Brexit. Your wait and see just doesn’t cut it. Your take that it’s only 3 yrs is misplaced too. Damage commenced within hours of the shock result. Do you not understand that?

Upon democracy.

The most valuable feature of democracy is that it has built in error correction.

You seem to ignore that tho you profess to understand the democratic process.

Waz - Please take time to read and understand my post. It’s not difficult.

I understand the democratic process, which is why I have stated more than once I am more than happy to see how far this ball will roll. I am not saying there should be no inquiry. If it takes place then fine, no objections from me. I fail to see why your not grasping this?

The bigger picture is that any inquiry will not happen overnight, it will take a fair bit of time. Probably even after a GE and maybe even after a change in government. Who really knows? My guess is two years for an inquiry before publication of any findings. Then with the inquiry finished, dissected and debated what then? You will of course be hoping that this sparks the impetus for a campaign to rejoin the EU. We then await a decision by the government of the day that they wish to explore how we rejoin. Endless negotiations take place, then will we the public be asked to decide or will it be a decision made by the party in government at the time? Will the criteria to rejoin be palatable or acceptable in 5-10years time? Will the UK economy and international standing at this time mean it would be beneficial to rejoin - you don’t know and neither do I.

That’s why I say try not to get to excited.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Will the criteria to rejoin be palatable or acceptable in 5-10years time? Will the UK economy and international standing at this time mean it would be beneficial to rejoin - you don’t know and neither do I.

There are absolutely no conditions that could be too oppressive for Waz not to want to rejoin the EU to help his business selling EU flags or whatever it is.

But it is selfish of us to say we don’t want to rejoin.

Likewise whilst he bangs on about democracy he would be thrilled if we were slipped back into the EU without a referendum and once back in would fight tooth and nail to stop any further vote.

[waz-24-7]

Will the criteria to rejoin be palatable or acceptable in 5-10years time? Will the UK economy and international standing at this time mean it would be beneficial to rejoin - you don’t know and neither do I.

There are absolutely no conditions that could be too oppressive for Waz not to want to rejoin the EU to help his business selling EU flags or whatever it is.

But it is selfish of us to say we don’t want to rejoin.

Likewise whilst he bangs on about democracy he would be thrilled if we were slipped back into the EU without a referendum and once back in would fight tooth and nail to stop any further vote.

My desire to re establish trade, defence, security , peace and co operation with Europe is only in part to support my and the multitude of other UK business.
The Term re-join is not altogether a term i like.
I too have been rather dissatisfied with a great deal of EU bureaucracy.

I do strongly support any proposals to become once again part of the single market economy particularly plus the re introduction of freedoms of movement and associated benefits.
There are numerous other advantages now lost. Once again , has anyone any positives on the current position because the wait and see brigade are deafening me with their silence.

[Kanonier]

1308 more signatures in 48 hours. I can't see Fr von der Leyen sending out for an extra chair any time soon.

[PoshinDevon]

I don’t often read The Guardian but I found this article interesting.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... oductivity

As I have posted before, leaving the EU is the start of a long journey. You cannot just leave and find yourself in the land of milk and honey. After all we were in it for 40+ years having to accept how it was run and it’s impact on the U.K. and it’s people. It wasn’t all nirvana.

If the U.K. is considering re-entering the EU I will of course keep an open mind as to wether I think it would be worthwhile, but until that time comes I believe its better not to wallow in despair, keep thinking everything is so unfair or woe is me.

As the article says, British employers must innovate - good advice for anyone running a business I would have thought.

I am sure when Waz gets his Irish passport he will be happier.

[waz-24-7]

I don’t often read The Guardian but I found this article interesting.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... oductivity

As I have posted before, leaving the EU is the start of a long journey. You cannot just leave and find yourself in the land of milk and honey. After all we were in it for 40+ years having to accept how it was run and it’s impact on the U.K. and it’s people. It wasn’t all nirvana.

If the U.K. is considering re-entering the EU I will of course keep an open mind as to wether I think it would be worthwhile, but until that time comes I believe its better not to wallow in despair, keep thinking everything is so unfair or woe is me.

As the article says, British employers must innovate - good advice for anyone running a business I would have thought.

I am sure when Waz gets his Irish passport he will be happier.

Do we have any directions or even a road map for the said journey to Nirvana?

Thanks for the article
As indicated
There are clear difficulties in the UK labour market ad public sector workers are striking like many have never seen before.
The voids in the private sector are driving up costs as inflation is rampant.
The exodus of Europeans and the lack of work visas is fuelling wage snd cost inflation
Certainly entrepreneurs are changing tack and setting sails to weather the storm.
A storm we sailed straight into without notice and without life jackets, navigation or sight of land.
Not wallowing in despair but definitely not leaving to the politicians to eventually sell me something that is at all positive or of any benefit.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Petition is at 200,000. Whopee. Only another 17.2 million to go. Maybe the other 68 million of the U.K. population has turned fascist?