Overstaying my welcome?

[jofra]

Having read up beforehand on here and various (official) links re visa periods where property owners are granted 90 days, I arrived at Metehan with passport and Kocan - and got 30 days!
"No, Kocan is only land, not property, not residency. No 90 days...."
So as I am booked to go home after 37 days - How do I (can I?) get my visa extended?
I've seen previous replies on the forum mentioning Immigration at Lefkosa, police stations at Lefkosa and Girne - does anyone know the current procedure?
...or the current (daily) amount of fine for overstaying?

[frugal90]

So it is a plot of land is it? You need to Turkish Police Headquarters in Lefkosa.

[a1sysman]

...or the current (daily) amount of fine for overstaying?

For each day over-stay (tourist or expired residency) the fine is the daily minimum wage in effect at that time. It can build up to a tidy sum if one is not careful. Payable before exit at either an airport or border crossing point. I think it may be cash (TL) payment only - with receipt provided.

You could try crossing out and back in again, show your return flight document. You may get a fresh 30 days, or just enough extra days to see you ok, this time.

It makes sense to have your home written on to your koçan, assuming your build is legal and fully compliant with regs in force.

[jofra]

For each day over-stay (tourist or expired residency) the fine is the daily minimum wage in effect at that time. It can build up to a tidy sum if one is not careful. Payable before exit at either an airport or border crossing point. I think it may be cash (TL) payment only - with receipt provided.

..And what's the current daily minimum wage at the moment?

You could try crossing out and back in again, show your return flight document. You may get a fresh 30 days, or just enough extra days to see you ok, this time.

.........

It makes sense to have your home written on to your koçan, assuming your build is legal and fully compliant with regs in force.

Sounds a good idea; probably another lawyer/advocat job - why doesn't it happen when the kocan is issued? Because it's another additional source of income....
I assume that "my build" (and all the other apartments on my complex) are "legal and fully compliant with regs in force" - our developers have done a few sites, and we all pay to our beledyise, so hopefully...
But; brown envelopes...?
I suspect that I will paying a large fine when I depart.....

[a1sysman]

And what's the current daily minimum wage at the moment?

I don’t know. Sorry.

Sounds a good idea; probably another lawyer/advocat job - why doesn't it happen when the kocan is issued?

I never instructed a lawyer here. I only used a notary to draw up POA for the estate agent to proceed with koçan transfer in my absence.

When l bought our land l was advised by the estate agent to pay the valuation tax at the time l applied for the koçan to be transferred into my name. Reason being the valuation would be lower than if valued with a build upon it. I hope the same applies to you and valuation tax is already paid.

When time came to have our build added to the koçan our architect handled the admin side of things - we held back £1k of payment until updated koçan issued. A representative from the relevant kaymakamlık came to inspect the build against the architects drawings. Some weeks later the architect called to advise our koçan had been amended to include our build, specifying the rooms breakdown, the pool and the garage. Cost, apart from the final payment to the architect? 50TL. And this was 2022.

Are you on builder’s electric tariff or are you paying the much cheaper approved installation tariff?

[snd1966]

I would personally try an internal border first, if not successful leave enough time to go to immigration/police .
I believe the fine is in the region of 665tl, I was only looking at it yesterday.
Good luck

[vialla]

Paid 10000 tl for 8 days overstaing

[alphamike]

Ouch!

[jofra]

Went to Girne police today, very busy but nevertheless a pleasant and helpful officer. He agreed that (with my kocan etc) I should have got 90 days, and that I must must have copped a "awkward one" - however, in this case (as it's just over seven days involved) it's not worth spending time faffing about for hours in different sections, but much simpler to nip down to Lefkosa, cross into the other side for an hour or so and come back, acquiring a new 30 day visa!
He said that a great many get the 90 days without problems, and wished good luck next time, and "get lots of paper to smother them with if they're awkward"...
So in a few days, fingers crossed...
Re the Kocan - the (40) apartments were built in 2009 (and are well out of builder's electric!) but as far as I know do not carry build details (mine doesn't). I understand that each of our kocans specify 1/40 of the site - last year "parcelisation" was looked into, which would (apparently) would have individualised all the kocans - all very technical...

[Kanonier]

Result!

[kayess]

This happened to us. We returned after the 2 year covid holiday in April 2022. Asked for Kocan at border, never happened before. Given 30 days and not 90 as requested so were sent to immigration ,Lefkosa to fill in request for additional days. Told that if there was a problem they would contact us. No contact made so we left in June assuming all ok. We returned in September at 3 am after travelling to Larnacato be asked for £400 + for my wifes overstay. Only my name on Kocan so assumed this was theproblem as no explanation. We went to pay the £400 but said they wanted it in Lira. Luckily my taxi driver could exchange for us. Gave the customs man the right money. He countad it twice then said he didn't know how to enter the money onto the computer so we would have to stay till 8 am for a more able person to enter the fine. We could not believe they expected people aged 76 and 80 to sit on a bench outside till morning.My wife then required a toilet so was directed to an unlit area at the back of the customs. After using the toilet she emerged in to the darkness and stepped off an unfenced flight of stairs breaking her hip. Then an ambulance was called for her . A very kind policeman ran me to the hospital as no travel allowed in ambulance. Hip operation was carried out and fine eventually paid. It was all so disheartening and when the residency that is apparently required now for people who like us stayed for about 6 to 8 weeks twice a year and trying to fit applications and renewals in whilst avoiding fines we decided we'd had enough so sold our home. We had been regular visitors for over 20 years and bought our home, spent holiday money and continuous car hire whilst over there so a sad way for things to end. We loved North Cyprus but it slowly dawned on us it no longer loved us. Too many complications for elderly people who just want a quiet life. Living there makes residency easy but not for "Swallows" such as us. We have to say thanks for all the good times. and the good friends we made.

[Hector]

I agree, understand and empathise with kayess. We feel the same:
'We loved North Cyprus but it slowly dawned on us it no longer loved us. Too many complications for elderly people who just want a quiet life. Living there makes residency easy but not for "Swallows" such as us. We have to say thanks for all the good times. and the good friends we made.'

We are considering doing the same.

[forestpixie]

For each day over-stay (tourist or expired residency) the fine is the daily minimum wage in effect at that time. It can build up to a tidy sum if one is not careful. Payable before exit at either an airport or border crossing point. I think it may be cash (TL) payment only - with receipt provided.

..And what's the current daily minimum wage at the moment? " 629.58tl per day that's gross"

You could try crossing out and back in again, show your return flight document. You may get a fresh 30 days, or just enough extra days to see you ok, this time.

.........

It makes sense to have your home written on to your koçan, assuming your build is legal and fully compliant with regs in force.

Sounds a good idea; probably another lawyer/advocat job - why doesn't it happen when the kocan is issued? Because it's another additional source of income....
I assume that "my build" (and all the other apartments on my complex) are "legal and fully compliant with regs in force" - our developers have done a few sites, and we all pay to our beledyise, so hopefully...
But; brown envelopes...?
I suspect that I will paying a large fine when I depart.....

[jofra]

Update on my earlier post - following advice from an officer at Girne Police Headquarters, I went this morning (08 May) to Lefkoşa and crossed over at Ledra Palace crossing. My and OH's passwords handed to both TC and GC control, scanned and entered into computer system. We then spent about two/three hours looking around shops in the south and returned. Again, passwords were handed to both GC and TC control, scanned and entered into computer system. I then specifically asked how long we could stay and was told "30 Days".
So, having arrived/crossed into the North on 11 April, I have crossed (left) on the 28th day and then re-crossed (entered), and been granted another 30 day as of today (08 May).
It has worked FOR ME - hopefully it will work for all of you. (Note: I did not bother this time about Kocan or any other documents, just passports and just asked "how long...")

[kayess]

As stated earlier due to the complications that were put in our way we felt we had no option but to leave. The main problem was our own making, only wanting to spend two periods of approx 8 weeks as we had been doing for years. Applying for residency and fitting the waiting time for issue and reissue and arranging stays to suit delays became too problematic. I see the problem will now exist with driving licenses if , like us , you only wish to be "swallows". if you are there full time you can stand delays of paperwork and can change appointments to suit. I must admit when reading some of these pages that I felt our swallow lifestyle will be all worry and a lot of the pleasure will be lost.

[Terri299]

Totally agree Kayess, not making it simple to stay longer than 30 days. Now retired we were really looking forward to being able to stay for a couple of months at a time, but seems we are not wanted. When we came back after covid we asked for 90 days at Ercan. We have our kocan, but we’re told we would only be granted this once & had to apply for residency. As this now seems impossible with current wait times, how are you supposed to do this if only here for a couple of months. Shooting yourself in the foot springs to mind as we now only book for 4 weeks. Losing income for local businesses by making it difficult to stay longer than 30 days at a time.

[PoshinDevon]

Totally agree Kayess, not making it simple to stay longer than 30 days. Now retired we were really looking forward to being able to stay for a couple of months at a time, but seems we are not wanted. When we came back after covid we asked for 90 days at Ercan. We have our kocan, but we’re told we would only be granted this once & had to apply for residency. As this now seems impossible with current wait times, how are you supposed to do this if only here for a couple of months. Shooting yourself in the foot springs to mind as we now only book for 4 weeks. Losing income for local businesses by making it difficult to stay longer than 30 days at a time.

We are swallows and spend 3-4 months on island twice a year. Obviously we comply with the rules for residency to allow us to do this. I fully agree that it isn’t easy and the long wait times between applying, getting a police appointment and then final authorisation causes a big problem. There are ways to overcome this but it does involve trips to immigration, possibly showing flight tickets and explaining face to face. I also understand that many just want a quiet life and not have the hassle of jumping thro hoops, travelling to government departments when all they want is to comply with the regulations, enjoy the TRNC and help support the economy. If your not great with technology or struggle to get around it is even more challenging.

Shortening the process time has to be resolved. Being able to scan/upload all paperwork on line without going for a “police” check (I can understand this for first time applicants) but those who are renewing is it really necessary? Also possibly looking at options for length of residency stay with 1, 3 or even 5 years available. I am sure many would be happy to pay just to not have the hassle.

The online system does work well but it should work so much better. It shouldn’t be this difficult. We can only hope things improve over time.

[alphamike]

It's such a shame that things have changed as to how long visitors/swallows can stay nowadays without having to go through hoops. I don't know what was wrong with the old system of giving 90 days, which would suit most people. I know that they have to have rules, all countries do, but it seems overly strict only giving 30 days.
There's been a massive change on the estate that I live on. Most people using houses as holiday homes, have either sold up, or in the process of doing so. It's too much hassle nowadays, and can't say that I blame them.

[vialla]

90 day system is very comfortable for everybody.Turkey and South Cyprus-good example of giving 90 days.

[kayess]

I don't know the full ruling on this, but it appears that when you sell your property in N Cyprus they ask for the passport you held at the time of sale. I'm not clear on whether it is the actual time of sale or day Kocan was obtained,
However, it would appear to be a good idea to hang onto all your old passports, not just your present current one.
I only know of two people who have been asked to supply passport details at time of purchase when they went to sell their villas so cannot be definite it applies to all sales

[jofra]

This will be interesting; I know of a instance where the purchasers/owners of a villa transferred the property to their child, so if/when that child (as owner now as registered on the kocan) chooses to sell the villa, what about passport details?

[jofra]

Another thought regarding the 30 days granted (kocan "not accepted" - my OP, renewed by crossing to south and back) = on arriving in the south, 90 days in 180 on the island is (currently) permitted - so could 3 X 30 be "concocted/created" by the requisite crossing north to south and return within hours effectively producing (upto) 90 days (in 180)?

[JoandJelly]

Another thought regarding the 30 days granted (kocan "not accepted" - my OP, renewed by crossing to south and back) = on arriving in the south, 90 days in 180 on the island is (currently) permitted - so could 3 X 30 be "concocted/created" by the requisite crossing north to south and return within hours effectively producing (upto) 90 days (in 180)?

I would say you need to be careful with this because you're not even guaranteed 30 days especially if they think you are trying to get round the system.

[kayess]

The reason I mentioned that old passports may be required when selling is that these new layers of requirements, residency , driving licences, is that all of this is fine for permanent residents but make being a swallow almost impossible if you wish to stay more than 30 days for each visit. And why would you have a villa and all the cost that retains when you can be put through hoops regarding timing of visits to suit residency visits to police, immigration etc. when you may only be undertaking two six/seven week stays per year. It is such a shame that someone in government sees fit to stop issuing 90 day visas. I have only recently heard of the requirement to need the actual passport used when purchasing so that may be a new requirement that allied to the other changes leads to many worries for lovers of North Cyprus

[Maisiemoo]

Well I bought my property twenty years ago and don't have my old passport, so don't know what will happen when I come to sell, which will be soon the way things are going

[sausage and pash]

My friends bought a house from an english couple. They went to girne but the office said cant transfet deeds (kocan) as not right passport. They explained it was 20 years ago and they renewed passports. Old passports in uk. And they were going home in a few days. Short and long!!! They went lefkoşa and in the archive there was a photocopy of old passorts. Sale went though. Dont know the leftkoşa office name. But beware. But then rules change by the day or hour!!!!!!

[Reyntj]

Blame all the students . I just read that the GDP from education has over taken tourism . Amazing really how this industry has taken off over here and now is having effects on entry rules decisions and law coupled with other demographic changes notably the influx of russian ,ex USSR countries and Iranians . Unlikely to get any easier anytime soon. It's a supply and demand situation.

https://cyprus-mail.com/2023/05/19/fore ... -north-up/

Visitors doubling

[kayess]

After reading the immigration, residency/police station started by Poshindevon I fail to see how us "swallows " can continue to own a villa and keep within the residency rules. Or am i missing something.
I was hoping to continue with making two visits per year for about 8 or ten weeks staying in my own villa but that now seemed to be impossible so I sold up . Are the BRS aware of these difficulties as it could result in large fines for returnees to the UK

[PoshinDevon]

After reading the immigration, residency/police station started by Poshindevon I fail to see how us "swallows " can continue to own a villa and keep within the residency rules. Or am i missing something.
I was hoping to continue with making two visits per year for about 8 or ten weeks staying in my own villa but that now seemed to be impossible so I sold up . Are the BRS aware of these difficulties as it could result in large fines for returnees to the UK

We are swallows and visit twice a year end March until early July and mid Sept until mid Dec. We obviously do follow the residency rules.

The process is relatively straightforward, however I believe the system cannot handle the numbers applying. Unfortunately the backlog caused by the wait time from application submission to getting the police appointment is excessive. Trying to understand the rules around restrictions on leaving the TRNC are not easy for everyone to understand and can cause confusion, stress and anxiety. There are ways to overcome this and speed things up but it does entail producing flight tickets, going to immigration etc. Its frustrating at times.

Having worked in the document management industry I do know it could and should be a much quicker system.

We will commence the process again early next year and can only hope that the relevant organisations in the TRNC are lobbying the government to try and improve the process. Let’s face it the vast majority of us just want to comply with the rules, have an easy life and support the TRNC.