Announcement in The times Re-Erdoğan

[bigOz]

I just saw a hardly readable scan of an announcement made in today's The Times (UK) issue! It is undersigned by 33 famous lawyers, writers, film directors, singers/musicians, actors/actresses, Doctors etc.

They are condemning the the police actions involved in Gezi Park events, resulting in the deaths of 8 Turkish youth and maiming of hundreds of others on Erdoğans orders and backing. The post ends saying his stance and actions (Erdoğan's) may well constitute a "Case to Answer" in Strasbourg (The Human Rights Court).

If anyone subscribes and has access to online Times, please see if you can read the whole document.

[Rosehillgirl]

Hi,

Not having a subscription of my own I've posted a message on 'Turkish Living Forum' to see if anyone else has any information.

Cheers

Rosie

[bigOz]

ıt will probaably be in Turkish press tomorrow - if so I shall translate a summary for you

[Rosehillgirl]

Hi,

Sorry but I can't scan the letter into the post. The letter was very forcefully written and was signed by the likes of Sean Penn, Sir Ben Kingsley, Lord Julian Fellowes, Susan Saradon, Sir David Starkey and many, many others.
In the open letter to Mr Erdogan he was described as a dictator and the 'rallies' he called to his supporters was likened by the 33 signatories as Hitler's Nurenburg Rally.
Mr Erdogan was remined by them that Turkey signed the Strasbourg treaty and should be held accountable by the Court of Human Rights-for the inhumane state sanctioned violence inflicted by the Turkish Police.

Mr Erdogan's response (as usual ridiculous) is that he's going to sue the Times. Every day he sues someone else-often high school students-it's reckoned that there are around 3000 students currently imprisoned.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/Defaul ... sCatID=338

Turkey currently has more journalists imprisoned than China and Iran combined.

It's a really scary place to be-this man is a power crazed lunatic-but he is very dangerous. We thank God every day that we recently managed to sell up and get out of there.

Rosie

[iancrumpy]

It's a really scary place to be-this man is a power crazed lunatic-but he is very dangerous.

I am certainly no fan of Erdoğan, but I can't help feeling you are exaggerating the situation in Turkey with this scaremongering - I, for one, have no qualms about my 7-year old son continuing to live in Istanbul.

Re. the protests - Many of my Turkish friends have been involved ... and I think the initial protests were necessary for Erdoğan to realise that many objected to his conservative policies. However, I feel the demonsrators took it too far ... let's not forget that the majority do not support Erdoğan's overthrow - the majority are firmly behind him.

[Rosehillgirl]

It's a really scary place to be-this man is a power crazed lunatic-but he is very dangerous.

I am certainly no fan of Erdoğan, but I can't help feeling you are exaggerating the situation in Turkey with this scaremongering - I, for one, have no qualms about my 7-year old son continuing to live in Istanbul.

Hi,

I don't think I'd be too worried at present about my son living in Istanbul either-even with the riots. Erdogans supporters are predominantly in the more rural areas-not Istanbul or Ankara.

It's not like I have no experince of living in Turkey-we livid in a semi rural area for years and witnessed first hand the changes in attitude of the rural populations toward the 'Yabanci's'. We and some of our friends have been sworn at, spit at and one friend even punched and told to go home to the UK.

I dispute that the majority are firmly behind Erdogan-certainly not in the cities-but we shall see.

If you think I'm exaggerating then so must the 33 signatories to the open letter in the 'Times' today-or are they all mis-informed too?

Turkey has around 3000 students imprisoned. Turkey has more journalists incarcerated without trial than China and Iran combined. Turkey has more websites blocked than any other country in Europe-indeed Mr Erdogan has just yesterday been voted internet 'villain' of 2013 by the international ISP providers association. Turkey ranks 154th out of 170 in the world for press freedom. Mr Erdogan has previously tried to ban all alcohol (even in tourist areas at one point) but had to back down. Mr Erdogan tried to make adultery a criminal offence-but not for men-only for women. Mr Erdogan has placed dreadful restrictions on abortion-even if rape was involved.
The judiciary have all been replaced by AKP supporters and most of the army top brass is also languishing in prison charged (but not yet brought to trial) with offences under 'Ergenekon'.
Now a member of the AKP has said that pregnant women should not be seen on the streets-it's immoral apparently-so is wearing red lipstick, wearing perfume and holding hands with your boy/girlfriend in public.
Mr Erdogan plans to stand as President when his office of PM ends (he can't serve again as PM)-he is attempting to make the term of presidential office for life-so he can never be removed.
Mr Erdogan has blamed CNN, the BBC, Reuters for the riots. He has even said that the riots were funded by the Israeli's and (unbelievably?) Luthansa Airlines.
His new PR assistant has claimed that people are trying to kill him by 'Telekinesis' from foreign countries.
This is all a matter of public record NOT my personal opinions.

Rosie

[Groucho]

I see Erdogan is thinking of suing The Times... that would be an interesting move!

[iancrumpy]

We livid in a semi rural area for years and witnessed first hand the changes in attitude of the rural populations toward the 'Yabanci's'. We and some of our friends have been sworn at, spit at and one friend even punched and told to go home to the UK.

Rosie, I've lived in Turkey for nearly 20 of the last 25 years. And during that time I have travelled extensively through Turkey, including villages in the far East ... and never once has anyone spat at me or treated me inappropriately. I can not comment on your experiences, because I don't know the details. However, I would like to reassure Kibkommers that, provided they don't go out of their way to offend the locals, they will never come to any harm. (That said, I would like to advise Kibkommers never to get into a fight with a Turk, because such matters are very often settled with a knife )

I dispute that the majority are firmly behind Erdogan-certainly not in the cities-but we shall see.

I agree the Istanbul, you see, certainly doesn't seem very conservative, but if you were to travel to the city's suburban areas, say, 20km from the centre, most of the women you'd see would be headscarfed. In the last 30 years literally millions have moved to the big cities from the east ... and they have moved in such big numbers that Istanbul and Ankara are now AKP strongholds. For four years I worked at a boarding school about 25km from the centre, close to the conservative suburbs I mentioned ... and only once did I have an unpleasant experience ... and that was my own fault for showing a rude hand gesture to another driver.

If you think I'm exaggerating then so must the 33 signatories to the open letter in the 'Times' today-or are they all mis-informed too?

Hopefully Rosie, this letter will do some good, but the point I'm trying to make is that people should not be put off visiting Turkey - if they don't go out of their way to offend the locals, it's not a "scary" place at all

[Rosehillgirl]

Hi There,

I don't want to put anyone off going either-but your experiences that of my friends and other ex-pats we know is totally different.

I don't want to say where we lived-as we have lot's of friends trying to sell up and leave (most already have)-I'd hate to lose them a buyer!!

It was a town of around 22k people and growing-mainly employed in agriculture-although many more were employed in nearby tourist resorts. When we got there we received a wonderful welcome and we got to make some great (and I hope lifelong) Turkish friends.
We hope that we are culturally aware and treat people with respect -and also respect their beliefs and customs. We tried to be as kind and polite as we possibly could.

Things began to change-nice little bars/restaurants would close down and re-open as tea houses. After a while there was only one restaurant in town where you could buy a glass of wine with your meal. We noticed subtle changes in the people-they were far more 'religious' than they had been previously.

We were burgled three times in twelve days-each time when we were actually IN-once at 11am when we were drinking tea with friends on the terrace-the third time they were slithering in the bedroom window next to us at 3am. We knew so many ex-pats and we only knew three couples (out of at least 20+) that HADN'T been burgled-and they all had big dogs.

The locals thought it was our own fault (a good few told us that) for not having metals bars fitted over all the windows. In the end we had to relent and have them fitted. We sat and thought-do we really want to live in a country where we have to barricade ourselves in every night while the thieves are free to roam the streets?

We had teenagers climbing in the garden and smashing up the pool stuff while we were out. I have personally been barged off the pavement by other teenagers etc etc.

Does this sound like the Turkey you know? It certainly is a million miles away from the Turkey we first visited in 1986-and from the one we bought a house in in 2004.

We really loved Turkey-that's why we moved there-but it's changed-obviously in some areas and not others.

Rosie

[woodspeckie]

I holiday in Turkey twice a year in total 36 holidays over the years in 12 different areas plus 4 visits to Istanbul, never had a problem and never heard of any ex-pats having problems either. We have ex-pat friends living in Cesme, Dalyan, Akyaka, Yalikavak, nothing has happened to them like the problems you had, none of them would leave. I suppose there are bad areas so homework has to be done before you decide to move but you can't tar everywhere in Turkey with the same brush.