U.K . Treasury plot to cancel ex-pats tax allowance.

[LooseBoots]

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pens ... broad.html

This article was in the Daily telegraph recently. If you are not a swallow this could affect you. I think it is scandalous. IMHO

So much so, we have registered on line to vote in the U.K. ( only up to 15 years away from U.K.)

http://votes-for-expat-brits-blog.com/2 ... ould-vote/

[Lottidotti]

It's a little bit confusing to me.I was under the impression that if you have more than one property and whether you rent it out or not it was ( the one your not resident in) liable for capital gains tax.if a person is renting their property out they will or should be paying tax on the income anyway.
In relation to the tax allowance of 10K it fails to say whether it will apply to EU countries or countries outside the EU.
But I know what you mean it is cause for concern.Just goes to show how a government in a so called civilised country can change the rules.
It's not that long ago the UK government said you only needed 30 years National insurance contributions to qualify for a full pension in the future,now they have changed the rules to i think it's 36 years,so for all those who stopped voluntary contributions at 30 years they now have to make up the additional 6 years or take a reduced pension at retirement age be it 65,66,67years or whatever age they pluck out of the air.

[come_on_aylin]

Re NI contributions - they told me to stop paying voluntary contributions, even gave me a refund. Have 32 years but need to pay another £6K to get full pension. However, if you read the fine print you don't get the full pension if your employer contracted out (SERPS) which all of mine did and the info on how much you might get isn't available...

[Lottidotti]

Come on aylin, I was in a similar situation I too got a refund,but while I was paying voluntary contributions I paid just over £ 300.00 per annum,I too was advised by the National insurance people to stop paying as I was wasting my money. If I had continued to pay for the additional six years it would have cost me circa £ 1800 to gain a full pension.
I have not made enquiries as to how much I would need to pay to top up to the six years but it would not surprise me that they would want 6K.
No doubt that whatever I do I will lose out one way or another,which seems to happen to hard working decent people who pay their taxes and do everything by the book and never end up in trouble with the law.

[come_on_aylin]

They told me I have until 2019 to pay up, the new pension comes into effect in 2016 so I have decided to wait and see what happens in the meantime. As you say, whatever we do we will lose out so I'll hold on to the money for the time being.

[annanirvanna]

I hope that this 'plot' will fail, wither and die - that common sense and fairness within the government will prevail.

Firstly it is unfair and unjust.

Secondly, the expats who have the right to choose where they wish to live when they retire and decide to leave UK are not being a burden on the UK in their autumn/winter years by probably needing frequent medical, care services and sheltered housing etc., which are a big cost to the UK. Those costs would be greater than taking away our annual tax allowance.

How many times can this government stab us in the back - pensioners are pensioners and we should all receive the same, especially when we have contributed the same to the state in tax's & N/I contributions all our lives!!!!

[Lottidotti]

Annanirvanna, To be fair,which ever party is in government their aim is to shaft decent hard working people.

[annanirvanna]

Totally agree Lottidotti. But this current lot seem to specifically target expats and pensioners since they came to power and soon will erode all our basic income. They are able to award themselves pay rises and other perks though & can find the cash for that quick enough. They should be totally ashamed of themselves skimming from pensioners

[Owl Lady]

Thanks Looseboots that had thoroughly depressed me until I read your second link. We could have been living in Australia ,New Zealand etc and not had a pension increase EVER. Don't forget also that the Winter fuel allowance is to be stopped for ex pats from next year!!

[Groucho]

It's the politics of envy... Jealousy and pandering to the prejudices of the jealous is what it's all about.... always a vote winner no matter what the justice of the situation... very poor indeed UK Govt.

[kaiserphil]

Groucho, you are correct, that is exactly what this is about!

And Anna, you are also correct, they have also taken away the pension that my Wife could have expected on retirement, based on my contributions.

[waddo]

So if they take away my PA I will be £4K a year worse off - because all my pensions are government based and of course are taxed at source!!!! That means I can no longer afford to stay here and will have to return to UK with no money and no house, hmmmmm!

Of course I will be able to get a free bus pass and get all my prescriptions at a very low cost - currently pay over £120.00 per month for pills here. As I wont be able to afford to purchase I will have to rent which I cant afford in UK so I will be able to claim benifits against all sorts of things as well.

I figure that it will cost the UK more to take away my allowance and have me back dependent on the state than it would to just leave me alone. Based on that being the best thing for both - Guess they will take away my allowance then - lol.

Maybe I will just stay here until I get deported then claim refugee status in the UK?????

[Lottidotti]

Waddo, You will only be 4K worse off if you are a higher rate tax payer,for most people and it's not just pensioners they will be about 2K worse off,still a large sum all the same.

[waddo]

Yippeee! That means I can plan to eat every other day instead then - lol.

My question is simple, because I am taxed at source and will then not even have a tax allowance from the country that taxs me - just what can I get for my taxes????

I suppose that "nothing" fits quite well on the edge of a stamp then!!!

25 years in the military - 17 years in the civil service = 42 years of being shafted when you finish - people wonder why I left the UK????

[annanirvanna]

Waddo, totally agree and is what I had also stated in my earlier post. I think when you are a pensioner prescriptions are free, not low cost, so even more cost to the govt. If we are forced to repatriate, because we have been screwed over by our government and end up not having enough money to live in our nominated country this surely would put huge financial strain on UK. The cost of care home, home healthcare and specialist treatments for the elderly are extortionate in UK. It will definitely be significantly higher costs to the government as opposed to leaving the P.A alone for pensioners. Surely pensions should not be included in this and I hope the Treasury sees sense and excludes pension income from this heartless cull on P.A.

I can understand withdrawing the P.A. against people who get the P.A. tax allowance, but only work in UK for small part year, cream big wages for a few months and then go abroad back home to their big villas etc., for the majority of the year living the jolly lifestyle.

[annanirvanna]

Another point that may be worth raising is that the UK government already consider the TRNC as part of Cyprus for tax purposes (I was told over a year ago in an e-mail that UK did not recognise TRNC as a separate country as it was embargoed). Cyprus is in the EU. Therefore it is worth looking into the EU rule that an individual can nominating their tax authority as the EU country they reside in as opposed to UK. I think it is called a reciprocal agreement for tax purposes. Now I am not an expert on this subject that is for sure. I am just posting what I have read and hopefully understood this past last year. I am sure there may be better experts on Kibkom who could advise, or if not at least seeking financial advice on this reciprocal tax agreement rule may help a lot of you folks. Maybe someone more knowledgeable in financial and tax matters can provide some input

I know from doing a check that Bulgaria’s personal income tax is 10% which is half of the UK tax of 20%. I don't know what the rate is for you folks over there, but worth checking?. This may reduce your tax bill as you would conform to EU regulations which UK and all EU countries signed.

[kaiserphil]

You are right about that Anna, however the UK Government retains the right to tax certain Government pensions in the UK, as they do with my MoD pension, though my other pensions are taxed in Germany..

Quite what they mean by "certain" goodness only knows - maybe "all"?

[Dalartokat]

So much talk about Pensions at the moment, sometimes hard to absorb.


http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/index.html

[waddo]

HMRC see TRNC as being in Turkey (this due to your postal address) for income tax purposes. I have fought this battle regarding the Double Taxation Agreements with HMRC and lost. HMRC will tax you as if you live in Turkey but the moment you try to gain the benifit of the double taxation agreement between Turkey and the UK then HMRC tell you that because you live in TRNC you can not do it. Then you try the Cyprus is in the EU card and that falls on stoney ground as well because HMRC use the same words but add that although TRNC is in the EU it is not fully in the EU until the aquis is lifted. Strangley the RoC office on income tax that I approached was happy to have the double taxation agreement even through I live in the "occupied territories" but they did add that I had to provide proof that I had lived in the RoC for six months! Told them I had lived in Limassol for three years between 1969 and 1972 and they said if I could prove that they would take it up with HMRC on my behalf. Gave up at that point as all the places I used to live in and the people that we rented off have either gone under blocks of flats or underground - story of my life really - lol.

[Lottidotti]

Annanivanna, The tax allowance applies to everyone whether you work or not so any person receiving a pension or other income at the moment doesn't get taxed on the first £ 10K. If your pension received is less than 10k,at the moment you don't get taxed but will get taxed after the government Implement the changes.
I would think this change will effect nearly everyone here who is retired as they must have pension income,otherwise how do they afford to live here.
I don't think a lot of retired people here will be living the 'Jolly Lifestyle' in the near future.

[waddo]

Lottidotti, guess you are not on a MoD pension then if you think that those here that are can afford to live the "Jolly Lifestyle" maybe ex MPs and such can do it but plain old Civil Servants pensions are not what you think they are and as for forces pensions pre 1990, best of luck trying to live on one of those never mind being "Jolly"!!!

As an OAP I am on a PA of £10,500 but then my OAP reduces that by £6,300 anyway so I only have a PA of £4,200 when it all comes down to it!!! So when I lose that I will have to pay 20% of £4,200 more in income tax to still get bugger all!!! That looks like it is only £840.00 lost a year but it is not quite that simple. My wifes military pension is 10K - sole income as she is under 66 - with a PA of 10000 as well, so no tax to pay - now she would suddenly have to pay £2K in income tax giving us a joint loss of £2,840!!!!

Wonderful the UK government and people moan about the TRNC!!! At least when they take money off you it is in your face and not hidden away!

[Lottidotti]

Waddo,You should read my post carefully again I did not say people were living a Jolly Lifestyle here.
Also my post was directed at Annanirvannas post timed at 15.14 hrs (second paragraph )who did mention Jolly lifestyle.
Please read again.

[Philoz]

I don't want to be a 'party pooper'.

I used to respect what the DT had to say, but I now think it's going the same way as the DM in terms of sensationalist headlines.

Let me give you an example-

Here is a DT Headline from 2009-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... us.html?fb

Now,we are all still sitting in our Villas are we not?

Sorry to go a bit but I don't think you need to worry too much in the immediate future.

Mind you I am a 'Glass half full ' sort of chap!

[Owl Lady]

Nice one Philoz, lets face it what ever happens property wise, PA cancellation etc There is sod all we can do about it!!! What would we do back in the good old UK. Wait 6 months for ANY benefits having paid into the system for years, or to go on a doctors panel? As our passport says BRITISH!!!!.

[waddo]

Lottidotti, I fall on my sword!!!!!! I never try to upset and did not aim to in this instance - having reread my comment I see that that is exactly what I have done. As a self confessed pratt please accept appologies on behalf of one who is so annoyed with the UK Government and the way the blatently steal peoples money, I aimed my anger at you!

It is the small print in things that you always fail to read till its too late that gets to me - how about this - my wife is seven years younger than me and completed 24 years in the military. She gets a pension of £X till she dies. I completed 25 years in the military and get a pension of £X. I get this pension till I die, then my wife gets half of that till she dies. Good? Now the small print. When my wife dies I get half of her pension, good? Well not really, the small print only allows me to have half of her pension from the year 1988 to 1995 (her year of exit) because 1988 is when women in the military were officially recognised for full pension rights. More Government theft!!! So instead of 24 years of half pension I would end up with 7 years of half pension - not a bad deal they say?

It is the little things that get me! So sorry again for the comments on earlier post.

[Agobard]

If you want to avoid paying tax on UK government pensions, then South Cyprus is the place to do it. Their double taxation agreement with the UK covers all pensions, including government based ones. If you feel like jumping through all the hoops down south (without actually living there) then this would be the way to go. Additionally you will also be able to get a ROC health card.

[waddo]

Agobard, would love to do that - how?

[Lottidotti]

Waddo,
Thanks for your reply.your apology is accepted.
I understand your frustration with government policies but,please don't let it take over your life,life's too short as it is.

[£eagle]

I think that anyone who is full time resident in the TRNC is liable to local taxes on all their income. I do not know if there is an exemption for UK pensions received here. If not then any UK taxes deducted can be set against local tax liabilities so that, overall, there will be not much difference. Everyone does declare all their income, don't they?

Another fun headline was to the effect that HRMC will be treating the act of dying as unacceptable tax evasion and asking some people to pay their Inheritance taxes before they die.

[guru]

If you want to avoid paying tax on UK government pensions, then South Cyprus is the place to do it. Their double taxation agreement with the UK covers all pensions, including government based ones. If you feel like jumping through all the hoops down south (without actually living there) then this would be the way to go. Additionally you will also be able to get a ROC health card.

Not sure if it still is, but tax in the south was only 5% on pension income, could've changed now bearing in mind the financial s*** they are now in

[annanirvanna]

I can understand withdrawing the P.A. against people who get the P.A. tax allowance, but only work in UK for small part year, cream big wages for a few months and then go abroad back home to their big villas etc., for the majority of the year living the jolly lifestyle.

LottiDotti, in your reply to Waddo where you quoted my previous post. The jolly lifestyle I mentioned in my para 2 (see copy above) related to persons who take high paying jobs in UK for a small part of the year, receive the 10k P/A deductions and then go back to their residences outside UK and enjoy their jolly lifestyles, not normal expats or pensioners.

Us poor normal expats and pensioners have had no chance of anything remotely near a quality lifestyle and looks like won't even have a basic style soon either

[Lottidotti]

Annanirvanna,
Personally I don't know of anyone here who goes back to the UK to work for a period of time, earn a load of money and then come back.However that doesn't mean there may be some who do that.Maybe you know people,but they must have a very very understanding employer who will allow that.
Perhaps these people need to go back to earn a bit extra so they can make ends meet,so it ends up a vicious circle,
take away their allowance earn less money need to go and earn more money.
I am of the school of thought that everyone whether rich or poor should get the allowances they are entitled to.

[annanirvanna]

The latest proposals are designed to crack down on what is seen as an inequality in the tax system, whereby a worker on a high salary could come to work in the UK for a short amount of time and pay little or no income tax because they benefit from the tax free allowance.

LottiDotti, Obviously the UK government seem to think some do, the link that started this thread had specified that there were some people from some places outside the UK who do abuse the UK tax system. As usual though, this government's plans do not whittle out the abusers, but encompass and hit the ordinary normal people (retirees and pensioners) who have paid into the tax system honestly all their lives and now face financial strife and hardship because of our uncaring government

[waddo]

Thats ıt - I am goıng on strıke - everyone else has wıthout anythıng comıng of ıt so I mıght as well - lol.

[kaiserphil]

Thats ıt - I am goıng on strıke - everyone else has wıthout anythıng comıng of ıt so I mıght as well - lol.

Too late matey, I'm already on strike! Ask the Wife!

[LooseBoots]

All very jolly I`m sure, but to get back on track we have registered with the postal vote system which lasts for 15 years absence from the U.K. So at least at the next election, which I think is next May, at least we can say we tried to have our say by using our vote.