Forming a committee

[Hilltop]

Does anyone KNOW (no guesses please) what is the procedure for forming a legally recognized development committee?

[squashmad]

How about visiting the Citizens Advice Bureau, they may well be able to point you in the right direction legally

[spider]

Good idea Suashmad

or as my daughter keeps telling me Mother look it up on the internet its FREE

From my experience there is nothing worse than a poor committee. one that has no idea on how to form,norm and storm together,

Spider,X

[the butlers wife]

Hi Hilltop,

You must contact every owner you have contact details for and inform them of your intentions to do this.

You must have a majority vote of those in favour of this.

If you get a majority vote then you must send out an invitation for nominees to be on the committee. The nominees must give their reasons for being on the committee and what they think they can contribute.

These names and reasons must then be sent out to all owners to vote on. The votes must be counted by two people and cross referenced, these people should not be associated with the site if at all possible.

In my experience you need 5 people on a committee, a chairperson a secretary and a treasurer, plus two other members, any more than 5 people will cause problems. If decisions have to be made then the majority vote wins the day.

You must inform your developer of your intentions and let them know when the committee is formed.

Unfortunately you will come across a lot of apathy but stick with it. Rome wasn't built in a day. I wish you all the luck in the world. If you need any further help, please pm me.

The butlers wife


The butlers wife

[waddo]

Just wonderıng and not tryıng to knock commıttees at all or the reasons/attempts to form them - but - ıf the development ıs already establıshed then ıs ıt not to late to form a committee to run it?
I dont live on a development but many of my friends do and I have seen many friendships torn apart by committee actions in the past, even to the extent of people giving up and returning to UK!
The major problem I have seen on large developments is that some people do not wish to have a committee at all and will try to "opt out" and go it alone - which is why they probably came here in the first place. This leaves a majority of people angry at a minority for not "paying their way"!!!
They seem to work on small developments of 10 to 15 dwellings but beyond that it always ends in tears, best of luck and get every owner on board before you do anything!!! If you can do that you stand a chance but one question for you all with development committees - what happens when one owner sells and moves on and a new owner buys and moves in, is it in their contract about the development committee and can it be enforced???

Just thoughts people.

[Marions]

sensible thinking, Waddo. Fraught with dangers, I reckon. In Australia we had Strata Managers who were a force outside the complex, but with owners being on a committee to discuss aspects of the building, repairs maintenance, caretaker, rules etc, but their job was to enforce what the Strata Management said. That way, there was no falling out with individuals, and no one had any power other than to pass on the minutes to the Strata Company, who usually had a representativce at the meeting. Every pro9perty had to pay Strata fees which was enforced by law, and if anyone did not pay those fees they were taken to court, or when the property was sold, such fees were deducted form sales monies. It worked because it was law. Here you have a minefield of possible problems.

Why do you need a committee, ? Also I think the owner/developer of that site would prefer to sit and discuss problems with you all rather than your ttrying to 'dictate' top him. Doubly fraught with problems. But I wish you well, but beg you to reconsider what you are doing. One doesn't want to lose the friends one has or get into deeper waters of problems.

Good luck.

[Hilltop]

Thank you to the Butlers wife for just answering the question, but then you are the only one who understands why it was asked!

[waddo]

Thankyou to squashmad for trying to point people in the right direction, due to sudden changes in the law here things may well change overnight and the CAB would know that.

[Dalartokat]

Are we talking about Citizens Advice Bureau, which is in the UK or Citizens Advice Cyprus?

[Marions]

Cyprus surely?

[Ragged Robin]

I was on a Development Committee years ago in the UK that ran three small blocks of flats. Despite the coooperation of and help and advice from the Developer (running by Committee of residents was specified in the Lease) it was a nightmare. Main problem was some wealthy residents wanted top quallity in everything and others quite simply couldnt afford it. Some consensus among residents on the Bench Marks to be aimed at before you go into operation would help. There were also problems getting a quorum - this could be amplified if you have swalllows onthe Committee who are away for parts of the year.

I have been on numerous Committees - professionally and voluntary since - success depends on a Chairmperson who can keep order and keep on topic, and doesnt try to force through their own views. Secretary who can write well (in two languages?) and numerate Treasurer also helps!

You will have to keep accounts and need to check if you need to employ a professional firm of auditors.

[Dalartokat]

Marion, then it is not Citizens Advice Bureau.

[the butlers wife]

Hi,

We live on a development of 78 properties and have had a committee for the last 7 years. Without the committee I dread to think where we would be today. Yes there are times people disagree with decisions that have been made and some owners object to rules that are made, but on the whole the majority think the committee do a sterling job. If people do not wish for rules and obligations then they shouldn't buy on a complex. We have one of the best complexes on the east of Kyrenia, it has won awards for the way it is kept. this would never have happened without the committee and some owners putting in a lot of effort.


the butlers wife

[Hilltop]

Thanks TBW. We are a long way behind you, but need to catch up. We will need to pay you a visit at some point. I was looking for genuine experience (recent and at least on the Island) and you provided it. Would love to have used CAB, but not in Cyprus where it is very narrow and needs to be paid for.

[TRNCVaughan]

Did you know that a camel is a horse designed by a committee?

[Owl Lady]

I have been lead to believe that advice is free from Citizens. If you want Pembe Ibrahim to act for you in her legal capacity, then you pay accordingly!

[PoshinDevon]

Hi,

We live on a development of 78 properties and have had a committee for the last 7 years. Without the committee I dread to think where we would be today. Yes there are times people disagree with decisions that have been made and some owners object to rules that are made, but on the whole the majority think the committee do a sterling job. If people do not wish for rules and obligations then they shouldn't buy on a complex. We have one of the best complexes on the east of Kyrenia, it has won awards for the way it is kept. this would never have happened without the committee and some owners putting in a lot of effort.


the butlers wife

Are you happy to name the complex? PM me if you prefer. We have friends looking for a property at the moment so they would be interested in a complex that is well run.

Cheers

[guru]

Our developer appointed a management company to run our site. Had we not formed our own committee they (the management company ) would still be running the show doing what they wanted and ripping all the owners off!!! Fortunately we formed an owners committee and got rid of them.

7 years on, and the developer has long gone, but you still need a committee to keep an eye on things with any current or future management companies WE appoint. Yes there can be differences of opinion between certain owners from time to time, but I shudder to think where we would be without a committee. Similar to the Butlers wife, we too think our site is one of the best, but it probably wouldn't be one of the best without a committee.

IMO you need a committee on ANY reasonable sized communally owned site all the time, not just while the developer is on the scene.

[guru]

some people do not wish to have a committee at all and will try to "opt out" and go it alone

That's quite true waddo, but in that case these people should have thought about their purchase a bit more carefully and bought an individual property rather than a property on a communal site, the clue is in the word... "communal"

[Dalartokat]

I have been lead to believe that advice is free from Citizens. If you want Pembe Ibrahim to act for you in her legal capacity, then you pay accordingly!

Owl Lady, it is clarified on the last paragraph of the CAC website. Also Pembe Ibrahim, I believe, is a Paralegal, whom if you lived in any other part of the World would not be allowed to give legal advice, but you are in NC. It's a bit like asking a plumber to carry out heart surgery.


http://citizensadvicecyprus.com/

[tomsteel]

If the information in msg 20 above is true, what legal status does Pembe have in the TRNC, what validity (in law) does her ruling have in court and why, if she is not a member of the Bar in the TRNC, is she charging for legal opinion? My local garage owner does not charge me for advice on which engine oil I should use, nor the postmaster for advice on postal charges. I am surprised the TRNC legal system has not intervened if she is unqualified, not registered et al.

[sophie]

I have her business card in front of me, and it says:-

Citizens Advice Cyprus
Citizens Advice Services Ltd. (the limited is in very small print)
Pembe Ibrahim (A.PPL) I don't know what this means
Paralegal

There is also a "logo" with a pair of scales on it, surround by the words
National Association of Paralegals. (This presumably is the A.PPL?)

I have no axe to grind one way or another because I haven't been for any advice, just happen to have her card, but I have been told that you are asked to make a donation when you go and then are charged if she actually suggests or gives advice. As I say, I haven't been to her personally and this could be wrong. If someone has seen her perhaps they could let us know.

[tomsteel]

Completed an internet search for APPL/PPL - zilch came up. Various other professional legal organisations involving paralegals, but not these letters. Interesting Moriarty!

[the butlers wife]

Hi all,

Pembe Ibrahim is a very helpful person and she is the first one to tell you that she is not a lawyer.
In the UK the CAB get government help and are run by volunteers. The CAB in the TRNC does not
get any funding from the government but Pembe has to run an office, telephones etc. Pembe will
give advice free of charge but if you wish to become a member and receive advice on several issues
the fee is £50.00 per year. Pembe will attend the courts with you and act as translator. She will act
as a mediater in disputes, she will do all she can to help you. Yes she charges for attending court
and acting as mediater but her charges are way below what you would pay a lawyer. I don't know
anyone who can do all this for no monetary reward, so please stop knocking the CAB and give them
your support.


the butlers wife

[kiplet]

I would say a committee is essential for any complex as long as they work for all they represent.
I understand from friends who have purchased apartments that some sites are leasehold and some sites are freehold which owners then own a proportion of the site.
So the sites that are leasehold owners of the apartments may have no final say through any committee.
However the sites that are freehold the committee do have a final say.

Hilltop is your site freehold or leasehold ?

[Dalartokat]

The Butlers Wife. No one is knocking but can you please get it right when you refer to Citizens Advice Cyprus, it is not the Citizens Advice Bureau which is in the UK. I also provided a link to the site and if people were to read it, it clearly states the procedures and requirements if you needed help.

So to reiterate, it is CAC in Northern Cyprus.

[tomsteel]

Msg 24, I fail to see any post knocking CA(C) or Pembe volunteering her services to advise. However, charging for professional legal service without being either qualified or licensed in the TRNC to do so is ' fraught' with risk of further problems. I am a UK qualified Member of the Chartered Society of Physiotherapists (albeit, retired and non - practising) but I do not list MCSP after my name more, do I practice here.

[the butlers wife]

Msg 26 & 27,

I have nothing further to say about the CAB as I do not wish to get into a debate about this.
The thread was about forming a committee and I think we should return to that subject.



The butlers wife

[kiplet]

I agree Butlers wife.
I am interested to read further on ins/outs of committee running. Our friends are very interested I hope they join the fiorum for advice.

[Dalartokat]

Just to reiterate again, it's CAC in Northern Cyprus and Citizens Advice Bureau in UK, no comparison and not good to mislead people.