Break up of the United Kingdom

[kerry 6138]

BBC report that racist/islamaphobic hate crime mostly carried out by under 25 age group,only post this to show we can all cherry pick details to suit our narrative.

[waz-24-7]

BBC report that racist/islamaphobic hate crime mostly carried out by under 25 age group,only post this to show we can all cherry pick details to suit our narrative.

Not surprising,, Youth education and welfare has been neglected for many years. lack of Education, parentage, and environment are most dire reasons for the troubles we now experience.
Solutions are required. It does not surprise me that the same people who cannot deal with immigration can equally not deal with youth discontent.
Perhaps we should export our youth into Europe and keep UK shores solely for the more mature. Especially the BREXIT supporters because they know what is best for us given they have the majority.
The national flag could be an old now available 1940's German replica.

[kerry 6138]

BBC report that racist/islamaphobic hate crime mostly carried out by under 25 age group,only post this to show we can all cherry pick details to suit our narrative.

Not surprising,, Youth education and welfare has been neglected for many years. lack of Education, parentage, and environment are most dire reasons for the troubles we now experience.
Solutions are required.

Well your plans seem to include giving 16 year old vote re doing the the referendum and returning to the status quo.
I prefer to use the funds we pay to EU to be spent on UK priorities perhaps youth Education welfare,and the NHS

[waz-24-7]

BBC report that racist/islamaphobic hate crime mostly carried out by under 25 age group,only post this to show we can all cherry pick details to suit our narrative.

Not surprising,, Youth education and welfare has been neglected for many years. lack of Education, parentage, and environment are most dire reasons for the troubles we now experience.
Solutions are required.

Well your plans seem to include giving 16 year old vote re doing the the referendum and returning to the status quo.
I prefer to use the funds we pay to EU to be spent on UK priorities perhaps youth Education welfare,and the NHS

Kerry
There are no savings. WE have no money!!
Our economy has lost £40 billion in 4 days. The NHS and all services will see austerity just as we saw in 2008. Last week we were positively placed at 1.7% growth after 5 years of recessionary negative growth. UK forecast today for next quarter is -2%. That;s a recession. So austerity, job losses and decline just like 2008 and just as the experts told us. For what?

Why should I listen to people who are feeding me dribble about how sterling has recovered and the markets are up today. These people frankly do not understand economics. Some are lecturing the youngsters about old war heroes and how "you owe me". These are the people that have failed and have failed others.
It makes me cross and they wonder why.

[Groucho]

We managed perfectly well before the ghastly EU - think we will do fine once the dust has cleared. Will take a little time but there's plenty of that. Suspect the EU will cease to exist in its present form within very few years. Best out of it. Good riddance.

Trooper
I think you miss the point.
The UK has voted to leave the EU and within hours of the result. Members of that very United Kingdom want to leave that institution.

Why? because they want to be IN the EU.
What please do you suggest as a solution to this issue?

I find it quite ironic that Nicola Sturgeon a staunch supporter of Scottish Independence should want to remain in the EU where the total subjugation of Scotland is assured....

If the Scottish Independence referendum had gone the other way then Scotland would de-facto have left the EU as the constitution of the EU forbids any breakaway nation from remaining in the EU and go-it-alone Scotland's parlous financial footing would have precluded and will preclude joining as an independent state...

The SNP want to have their haggis and eat it....

It's not about political freedom it's about being anything other than British...

There is no turn the worm won't take in the lust for power

[Sugarpuffbear]

If we are not going to have another referendum, politicians must regroup with the sole aim of getting Britain trading with world nations again, by lifting a united Great Britain back feet with or without immigrants to do the work that the Untited Kingdom residents won't do.
Anyone willing to take the job on?

[waz-24-7]

We managed perfectly well before the ghastly EU - think we will do fine once the dust has cleared. Will take a little time but there's plenty of that. Suspect the EU will cease to exist in its present form within very few years. Best out of it. Good riddance.

Trooper
I think you miss the point.
The UK has voted to leave the EU and within hours of the result. Members of that very United Kingdom want to leave that institution.

Why? because they want to be IN the EU.
What please do you suggest as a solution to this issue?

I find it quite ironic that Nicola Sturgeon a staunch supporter of Scottish Independence should want to remain in the EU where the total subjugation of Scotland is assured....

If the Scottish Independence referendum had gone the other way then Scotland would de-facto have left the EU as the constitution of the EU forbids any breakaway nation from remaining in the EU and go-it-alone Scotland's parlous financial footing would have precluded and will preclude joining as an independent state...

The SNP want to have their haggis and eat it....

It's not about political freedom it's about being anything other than British...

There is no turn the worm won't take in the lust for power

Grouch,
Good point.
I am afraid that is politics.
Personal ambition over national ambition possibly.
I believe Ms Sturgeon is in Brussels today to seek assistance for Scotland to remain in the EU.

Mr Cameron has left Brussels and clearly now absent from day 2 of the summit meeting.
Is Sturgeon now our only representative at senior level in Brussels?
Mr Farage certainly had a rough day there yesterday. Shouted down and aligned with the French Ultra right wing.
I do hope he is filed to the dungeons for his mistruths, misguidance and lies.

The map is yet to be drawn and we do not know how the new map of the UK will even look.
The breakup of the UNITED Kingdom would be a very sad day indeed.

[Hedge-fund]

I will certainly buy the ingredients in the hope you are right.
Too early to start baking.
Signs are not good.
But I will certainly bake and eat the pie without any difficulty at all.

http://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/beef ... umble-pie/

[jofra]

Or if you prefer the real recipe rather than further inaccuracies (designed to "stimulate further debate" ?)......

[PapaBravo]

On 24 June Waz wrote,

The markets have reacted as predicted and recession is on the cards.
Our Government is in disarray with resignation of our PM
Is the UK now destined for decline, and depression?

Your crystal ball must have been a little cloudy!

[waddo]

Day ain't over yet! Only in the UK could you have the decision of a century made by 52% of the population whilst the leaders of the country had no plan for what they would do if the decision went against them! Now, months after the debacle there is still no plan and apart from Brexit means Brexit (that is a bit like saying Chips are Chips and has the same meaning) nothing new has happened. Hey, ho, and people ask me why I left the UK???

[PoshinDevon]

Nothing can happen until the UK officially invokes the article which triggers the UK exit. Thereafter its 2 years to negotiate our way out or longer if needed and agreement can be reached to extend.

I think these few months since the vote to leave has given time for the dust to settle, the doom and gloom predicted has not happened and the markets have settled. Better to negotiate from a strong base. No doubt discussions are ongoing within the UK political spectrum to formulate how we want to negotiate our way out........no need to rush things. Would be happy to wait till end of the year to trigger our exit. Any longer and the natives will get restless.

[waddo]

Good man Posh - always the optimist - lol. Doom and gloom predicted has not happened - because they have not left the EU yet? Markets have settled - agreed, the pound lost ground against every currency in the known universe and has stayed below what it was before the vote! Better to negotiate from a strong base - that base was stronger before the vote but there was no plan in place then, same as now! No doubt discussions.... - yes there is doubt, first they have to decide on a plan for the way forward! No need to rush things - correct, just leave it as it is and mumble along as normal. Would be happy to wait - you are going to be very pleased then with that then. The natives are already restless and have been since the vote was cast - it is just that they are being ignored more now the football season is well under way.

So what will happen next - maybe, just maybe the smoke and mirrors brigade will simply draw the whole process out until the 1st of Apr 2017 and then blame other countries of the EU for not allowing them to invoke article 50? After all that is only 149 working days away, less public holidays and the like - not long really when its already 56 days since the vote!!!

[PoshinDevon]

Good man Posh - always the optimist - lol. Doom and gloom predicted has not happened - because they have not left the EU yet? Markets have settled - agreed, the pound lost ground against every currency in the known universe and has stayed below what it was before the vote! Better to negotiate from a strong base - that base was stronger before the vote but there was no plan in place then, same as now! No doubt discussions.... - yes there is doubt, first they have to decide on a plan for the way forward! No need to rush things - correct, just leave it as it is and mumble along as normal. Would be happy to wait - you are going to be very pleased then with that then. The natives are already restless and have been since the vote was cast - it is just that they are being ignored more now the football season is well under way.

So what will happen next - maybe, just maybe the smoke and mirrors brigade will simply draw the whole process out until the 1st of Apr 2017 and then blame other countries of the EU for not allowing them to invoke article 50? After all that is only 149 working days away, less public holidays and the like - not long really when its already 56 days since the vote!!!

The remain campaign predicted the bottom would fall out of the UK economy and things would fast deteriorate following the vote to leave. It simply has not happened. IMO there is still a strong base to negotiate from and yes I am optimistic. Even more so as the "we are all doomed merchants" predictions have not happened. I am also not convinced that there is any real link between the start of the football season and the level of restlessness amongst the natives.



We agree to disagree and I for one am looking forward with positivity.

[waddo]

Looking forward to the future as well - its the content of it that concerns me just a little! The leave campaign predicted that the money paid to the EU would be paid to the NHS - it was on the side of the bus - it simply has not happened and never will, just one of the lies the leavers told. The remainer's told just as many as well but the public wanted the immigrants out so that's what they voted for - sad but true - still the UK will trundle on with or without the EU! I just hope that the people at the bottom of the pile don't get hurt too much by whatever happens, but they usually do.

I don't believe that "we are all doomed" either but then I have left the UK behind me and found life elsewhere - where "allegedly" I am about to be ripped off by the government, nobody cares about me, I have no say in the countries affairs, I am treated like a cash cow (whatever that is) and I am surrounded by "Foreigners" who are better off than me - hmmmm, maybe I never left the UK after all - lol. Just smile the day through, be kind to people and laugh more - it works every time.

[PapaBravo]

In the run-up to the referendum, we were warned Brexit would unleash misery. George Osborne suggested a vote for Brexit would lead to a DIY recession. And numerous business bosses and the great and the good piled in to add their warnings to the doom-mongering. Yet in the weeks since the referendum, their predictions of chaos have not come true. What’s more, many of those shouting the loudest about the consequence of Brexit are now furiously rowing back on their warnings. Here, The Spectator compiles the Brexit u-turns and referendum backtracking:

In the aftermath of the vote, many major banks and financial institutions continued to warn that Brexit spelt bad news for the economy. Credit Suisse were among them; in a Treasury report in August, they predicted the UK’s economy would go into recession next year. Now, just weeks later, they’ve cancelled that forecast to suggest instead that the economy would grow by 0.5 per cent next year. Morgan Stanley also cancelled their prediction of a 2017 ‘Brecession’ to offer a similar, more optimistic picture of the UK economic outlook.

London City Airport‘s boss Declan Collier warned before Brexit that a vote to ‘Leave’ would ‘undermine the free flow of trade and travel’. Yet just a month after the referendum, things were looking much rosier for the airport following the announcement of a £344m expansion. Collier said the news ‘sent a strong message that London and the UK are very much open for business’.

Nissan is one of the most important foreign investors in the UK, so when the carmaker’s boss Carlos Ghosn said that Brexit could cause the company to reconsider its investments in Britain, people sat up and listened. That was in November 2013, yet after the referendum Ghosn has struck a somewhat more positive note about how he is ‘reasonably optimistic’ over Brexit, whatever happens.

Donald Tusk couldn’t have been clearer in making his thoughts known about Brexit in the run-up to the referendum. The European Council president said a British exit from the EU could trigger ‘the end of Western political civilisation’. Yet the day after the vote, he was somewhat more sober-minded, saying that it was business as usual: ‘What has happened happened, and we have to move on with our regular agenda.’

GlaxoSmithKline‘s boss made it clear he thought Brexit was bad news for business. Sir Andrew Witty said that it was better for Britain to stay in the EU than ‘trying to plot a new course’ outside. And he went on to say, back in May, that ‘leaving the EU would create uncertainty and potentially add complexity’. Just weeks after the referendum, though, GSK announced plans to invest £275m in three of its British plants. And here is Witty speaking about their post-Brexit investment:

‘It [the investment] is testament to our skilled UK workforce and the country’s leading position in life sciences.’
Rob Wainwright, the British head of Europol, said in the run-up to the referendum that Brexit ‘would make it harder for Britain to fight terrorism and crime.’ But in the aftermath of the vote, he struck a more positive note:

‘We’re dealing very much with a globalised problem that requires close co-operation with our European neighbours, particularly in information sharing. That’s going to continue of course, even after the UK leaves the EU.’
Siemens‘s Chief Executive waited until after the EU referendum to say that Brexit could hit investment. Juergen Maier said the company’s short-term investments in Britain were ‘on ice’. Yet, just weeks later, it was announced Siemens would continue to pump money into Britain. In an apparent contradiction of the company’s earlier warnings, Maier said that whether the UK was in or out of the EU, it remained a ‘good place to do business’.

Barack Obama was undoubtedly one of the highest profile figures from overseas to intervene in the Brexit debate. He famously warned that a Britain outside the EU would find itself ‘at the back of the queue’ in trade talks with the US. Afterwards, however, the President’s spokesman Eric Schultz made it clear that the special relationship ‘had not suffered because of the vote’.

As the architect of Project Fear, George Osborne was one of the first to backtrack following Brexit. In the lead-up to the vote, the then-Chancellor indicated there would be a recession if Britain voted ‘Leave’. But speaking days after the referendum vote emerged, he softened his rhetoric to say the economy would merely undergo an ‘adjustment’. And where was his much-touted ’emergency budget’? Osborne wasn’t keen to be drawn on that either, and booted the budget football away by saying there would ‘have to be action’ – without daring to mention his original plan of action.

[Keithcaley]

We haven't left the EU yet!

We've not even given notice, and started the process.

It will be years before we actually leave the EU - if we ever do.

Time then to see what the effects are, or are not!

[Joe Soap]

Quote from Mr Caley:

"We haven't left the EU yet!

We've not even given notice, and started the process.

It will be years before we actually leave the EU - if we ever do"

Are you suggesting UKIP may win the next General election if the democratic decision to exit the EU is not actioned properly?

[Keithcaley]

Joe, I've no idea, and I'm not all that bothered either way I didn't make any predictions at all.

The point that I was trying to make is that everyone who discusses the subject seems to say "Well, this hasnt happened, or that hasn't happened" - as though the deed had already been done, and the UK had actually left the EU - and it hasn't, yet...

It doesn't make much sense to me to discuss 'what has happened as a result of leaving' until the UK has actually left, because not much at all will have happened until then, apart from a little rumour-mongering, and a few more scare stories going into circulation.

[waddo]

Ah, Keith beat me to it as normal but having written all this rubbish below I will still publish and be damned!!!!

Joe, Keith is an educated person, why would he think that UKIP would ever win a General election? He is simply pointing out that the road to final Brexit by the UK is not only going to be long but that it may never have an ending and that therefore all the information provided by PapaBravo are simply reasons - as seen by newspaper reporters - as to why the Remain camp have been wrong all along.

I think these sort of discussions will go on and on and on both sides claiming they were right and providing newspaper reporters evidence and proof that the other side were wrong until the final decision is made and the politicians decide which action would keep them in power for the longest time. It is never about the good of the country, it is always about keeping the power in the hand and those in power will fight tooth and nail to retain that power, regardless of what the people say. The current government were caught out by the vote of just over half of the people, they never thought that the vote would go that way or they would have had a plan to actually action the Brexit - as there is still no plan to do so, that must tell any thinking person that they never expected it to happen.

It is still at square one with the government issuing all sorts of ideas in the hope that somebody will come up with a good plan for the future. Personally I think they will just fly around the world, on tax payers money, trying to prove they are working hard for the good of everyone right up to the 1st of April next year - then they can place the blame elsewhere and continue to not do anything and not action Brexit at all.

But who knows?

[Dalartokat]

The £350m a week pledge to the NHS has been abandoned, we've moved on...............http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... nhs-pledge

[Groucho]

The £350m a week pledge to the NHS has been abandoned, we've moved on...............http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... nhs-pledge

Well they can't redirect the money going to the EU until we've left the EU can we so it was never going to be an instant thing - was it?

The predictions were all made by the remain campaign Keith.... predictions of Armageddon seemed the order of the day and plenty of people were prepared to nail their flags to the mast and quote these predictions in an effort to persuade those inclined to vote leave....

Massive backfire.... It was a scare tactic too far - Britons don't like being threatened especially when the threats are so obviously bunkum...

[waddo]

Pointless debate. As Brexit has not happened then no predictions made by either side can be assessed as true or false!

[Keithcaley]

Pointless debate. As Brexit has not happened then no predictions made by either side can be assessed as true or false!

That, and only that, is the point that I was trying to make

[Keithcaley]

I just saw this: - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37369917 - 'No substantive talks for a year'...

[Groucho]

I just saw this: - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37369917 - 'No substantive talks for a year'...

That's a prediction... maybe like the predictions of Armageddon?

[waddo]

Never mind Keith, it was a good try, apparently predictions do not count - so I guess that none of this counts either but it is good for a laugh:

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/articl ... yxD59VO3Nb

Keep your chin up mate, the Government has had no substantive talks for decades anyway, why should it change now - lol.

[Keithcaley]

I just saw this: - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37369917 - 'No substantive talks for a year'...

That's a prediction... maybe like the predictions of Armageddon?

Oh, quite - unlike the predictions made by the 'leave' mob, which, of course, have all turned out to be 100% correct, and took effect the instant that the result of the vote was announced

[waz-24-7]

The effects of BREXIT are coming home.
The UK is most likely to remain as a single UNITED UNION. Will we secure single market access?
Will we agree to free movement of labour? BREXIT as it was sold? No I do not think so at all.
Today the European powers met to discuss European issues. The UK was absent and is likely and possibly to be excluded and isolated in future months. Today UKIP secured a new leader. Mr Farage now wants the current Uk passport to be thrown in the bin to be replaced by a PURE UK version. UKIP expect to be the new party of opposition, their right wing politics have gained massive momentum , primarily from the left wing voting sector who voted BREXIT without a clear understanding of the right wing agenda of this party or its BRREXIT campaign. To relinquish our European style passport would be an absolute disaster if your an ex pat with current European rights and protection.

Upon the cost of BREXIT. Many who read my BREXIT posts will acknowledge the collapse of sterling post BREXIT. Recovery is now unlikely as markets have stabilised somewhat. The cost of BREXIT in financial terms started very quickly after the result. Just look at the tl exchange collapse. The next benchmark will be early 2017. I expect prices of fuel, food, consumer products and luxuries to show marked increases as the weakness of sterling transpires into increased costs for importers, manufacturers and service providers.

The pain of BREXT is still in early development. The advantages of BREXIT ? Someone please tell me .

[Dalartokat]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/th ... spartanntp



Theresa May won't be rushed

[waz-24-7]

The strategy is clear.
Hold out against an article 50 submission.
So
Allow markets and economies to re adjust and formulate the best way forward.
Negotiate a soft exit with minimum economic damage.
Possibly a 10 or even 20 yrs plan I think

[kibsolar1999]

10 to 20 yrs till submission or till brexit?

visegard countries announced that, if their citizens have no free access to britain, they will block any kind of british free access to the common market. juncker confirmed, again.

the eu negotiation team is ready to work.... the british (gov) have no clue what to do... they do fear the most possible massive drop of GBP value the moment they file the application and all the other consequences..eg, that they can not reach an agreement with the EU within the two years...

not to file is also a problem... as britain remains in the EU, must pay, but has little to say (not because the EU would not let them... the UK is a member state... its because the gov has to show the british public that they want a brexit....)
... and britain remains in an unstable and, eg, investors unfriendly environment... at the monet, the UK governmant can not really govern...

meanwhile voices in germany come up to "give the british a possibility to remain without losing their face"... also because germany would has to pay significantly more to the EU budget, would not get a single vote left from the UK in EU parliament and will suffer (a bit) from less UK import-exports.

= less influence, but pay much more. also the germans will not make it easier for the british.

so, someone has to pay "for all this" and the british can not expect to get a brexit for nothing. most probably it will be much more expensive as the as the + xx GBP (leavers) or - xy GBP (remainers) declared...

[waz-24-7]

KIbsolar,
Very fair comments.
It is the case, as indeed it was before the vote, there is no definitive plan. It is a shame voters did not see this when they happily signed up for BREXIT. The level of uncertainty has stabilised somewhat as markets have settled and await developments . Sterling has collapsed and the pay back has commenced. Upon submission of article 50 I would expect a more decisive collapse of possibly a further 20 - 25%. Recovery will take in my view 10 - 20 years. The administration of the UK as a standalone will be a massive and very expensive exercise. Who will pay? Certainly no European grants now for that for Science, roads, infrastructure etc.
It is in UK interest to ride the current storm and negotiate hard for a better "Remain" in deal. Now ,some will hold fast for the BREXIT but these people must surely now recognise the damage inflicted and I wonder how many would re think their decision of only a few months ago?
I am afraid the pain is indeed long term and the new year will bring forth the next hit.
There will be little to party about as we all pay the financial cost of this mistake. Ex pats should start to contemplate the issue that will arise when we lose European status and become Alien and expect to be treated as such in line with other less fortunate nationalities.
The list of changes and adjustments will continue to emerge over several years and adjustment will take even longer.
I remain confident however that our new government can secure the least damaging deal.

[kibsolar1999]

are you joking waz?... : It is in UK interest to ride the current storm and negotiate hard for a better "Remain" in deal..haha.

the UK can not get a better remain in deal as they got already, starting with the "thatcher deals".
the "member UK in the EU" is knows as blockers, non reformers and so on and, not to forget, became "within the EU" (in average) so rich, that nearly all remaining EU countries will target a "normal membership".... nothing more (if possible) and, maybe, to force the UK into the Euro!
sharing, not only become rich and try to get away as cheap as possible... that a lot of this money benefits only some, is a domestic political problem. see your NHS.

that the GBP falls to 1:1 to the Euro is not the only problem (as it may attracts investors to the UK and makes the situation eg, on the housing market, even worse...). the problem is a possible "up and down" of the GBP. who wants to trade with (such) a country with no (or less) access to the EU? as i mentioned before: capitalism is not a "free market". it is a planned economy, many say (due to the super rich) a centrally planned economy: the plan is: i invest and i want to get my money back + profit.

it was , maybe, understood wrong (here).. i never was completely against a Brexit.. but the supporters never understood that they vote for a "complete change" of the country, the society.. and not only to get rid of some polnish workers (which make your country work), the peanut payments for the EU and that the fishery lobby can empty your seas freely... till nothing is left.

your wish:" .....that our new government can secure the least damaging deal" , is free for interpretation...and sounds quite expensive already...

and finally: the problem for expats will not be that they lose the Eu status and become aliens. this your gov can solve, due to the certainly to be reached agreement with the EU... and also due to the old commonwhealth (for non EU countries).
the problem is that "the country will call them back"... and it did start already.... no NHS any more, and then... no transfer of pensions to abroad any more, and - or higher taxing and so on... that may become the problem for ( the lower income ) expats...
"the country" will force them to some sort of "patriotism"... because the country voted for brexit.

[waz-24-7]

KIbsolar
What is clear is that the road ahead remains uneven and more difficult to achieve prosperity. The Uk economy remain buoyant in the main because of pre BREXIT momentum. The collapse and my predicted further decline will ensure a sure fired increase in cost of living inflation and all the economic issues that come with that type of problem.
The clear fact that is now coming home is that talk is now all about minimising the damage . I have seen absolutely no positives to date from BREXIT.
Uncertainty will prevail for many years to come as the UK re builds and finds anew position on the World stage and as a stand alone economy.
This is a massive task and the UK is on back foot to secure a good deal. The UK economy, businesses and government still recognise the importance of the EU ( they all supported REMAIN) must strive to maintain access to single market and include freedom of labour movement.

[PoshinDevon]

Dr Liam Fox congratulates the UK voters for the brave decision to leave the EU. Hints at hard Brexit.

No one really knows how the future will pan out, however the massive collapse of the UK economy has not happened. We move forward with optimism.

[fatouche]

Let'shttp://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk%2Fpolitics%2Fbrexit-peoples-challenge-legal-high-court-block-article-50-referendum-a7335201.html&h=uAQHTfqRQ&enc=AZN0m6gEOvtjRpwt_lROYq3XC_vX0_rnzMtk01EVOpOIAyggr8CS0ou7lYf8dR2i9IbW6fWwtxZGTZn_0yzj0zczxC9K9H7j6H-QRLYlBq09JT5qoQ7bNYYhJ29ixuP2QDMVInSU-lQ_lHPUOVxMiNbCL4-cbV65YdlH63DN54Xex5SKuaCjgvtUus9qYenP6mSMu5idVDb0T4IegvWZZygjmWu-4RDQJCISrqMXoUpi4h1uzydRHo5S0t4vMO-TjYbkvBgkphRuplazqc5-SO5p&s=1 wait and see if we actually leave.

[fatouche]

Woops. Sorry about the above. Can't see how to edit it.

[fatouche]

http://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A% ... TjDApp&s=1

[Keithcaley]

...or click here

[waz-24-7]

Certainly the UK will survive outside of the EU. It is very noticeable however that the BREXIT camp including the many supporters on this FORUM have faded into the shadows possibly now experiencing the real cost (financial) of the vote.
Sterling will continue to weaken. This week as talk or Article 50 submission is on the agenda sterling falls again.
If you are a hedge gambler then take heed upon a possibly fall to 1.05 euro. 2.85tl 1.19 $. My D day for this is May 5th 2017.
The cost of BREXIT, in my view, was always going to be a massive hit. It was forecast.
The climb back has commenced but for many youngsters the future recently became much more of a challenge.
The story is far from over. The climb ahead is hard ,steep and long in duration.
I fear the end will provide no real benefit or gain just isolation and segregation for a misguided nation

[PoshinDevon]

Certainly the UK will survive outside of the EU. It is very noticeable however that the BREXIT camp including the many supporters on this FORUM have faded into the shadows possibly now experiencing the real cost (financial) of the vote.
Sterling will continue to weaken. This week as talk or Article 50 submission is on the agenda sterling falls again.
If you are a hedge gambler then take heed upon a possibly fall to 1.05 euro. 2.85tl 1.19 $. My D day for this is May 5th 2017.
The cost of BREXIT, in my view, was always going to be a massive hit. It was forecast.
The climb back has commenced but for many youngsters the future recently became much more of a challenge.
The story is far from over. The climb ahead is hard ,steep and long in duration.
I fear the end will provide no real benefit or gain just isolation and segregation for a misguided nation

Personally, I admire your attempts to continue to post a gloomy scenario for the future of the UK.

I cannot speak for others but I know that if I could be bothered I could find enough articles, discussions etc to counter all of the above claims made by yourself. As for the future pre and post Brexit - none of us really know how things will work out, however it does look like a hard Brexit....if the politicians are to be believed!

I am still happy that the majority voted to leave the EU and will watch, read and wait with interest, rather than keep posting doom and gloom scenarios based on what ifs. The slowing down of posts on this topic to my mind means that people on both sides of the discussion; whilst still taking and interest, have moved on and would rather wait for more substantial details before commenting further.

[Geoff1131]

Waz, just as a comparison. The lowest recent sterling levels I can find ( after a very quick check ) reveal that the £ against the $ was £1--- $1.03 in March 1985 and the £ against the Euro was £1---1.0219 euro in December 2008. The UK was firmly a part of the EU on both occasions so we can expect currency fluctuations to continue if the UK is either in or out of the EU. Just saying.

[David]

Looking on the exchange sites on internet it was TL 3.76 - £1 this morning

[kerry 6138]

Posh in Devon, you took the words right out of my mouth so to speak.

[Hedge-fund]

Certainly the UK will survive outside of the EU. It is very noticeable however that the BREXIT camp including the many supporters on this FORUM have faded into the shadows possibly now experiencing the real cost (financial) of the vote.
Sterling will continue to weaken. This week as talk or Article 50 submission is on the agenda sterling falls again.
If you are a hedge gambler then take heed upon a possibly fall to 1.05 euro. 2.85tl 1.19 $. My D day for this is May 5th 2017.
The cost of BREXIT, in my view, was always going to be a massive hit. It was forecast.
The climb back has commenced but for many youngsters the future recently became much more of a challenge.
The story is far from over. The climb ahead is hard ,steep and long in duration.
I fear the end will provide no real benefit or gain just isolation and segregation for a misguided nation

I think you'll find that people have stopped replying to you out of sympathy.

So we've dropped the immediate recession scare, emergency budget, raising interest rates, falling house prices & world war 3 arguments and all we are left with is a weak pound argument.

Since 2009 central banks have been waging currency wars with a view to devaluing their currencies. We've got this fantastic opportunity to kickstart our real economy now and should grab it.

The future is in our own hands instead of corrupt europhiles.

We will have problems and downturns but they will be our problems and downturns and we will get through them.

If you would just admit you made a bad call you may be able to rebuild some credibility but just hoping and waiting for somethind bad to happen and blame our independence is plain daft.

[waz-24-7]

Plain daft?? I think not.
Please do relate the positives that have emerged or are even due to emerge. I can think of none!!
The collapse of sterling is without doubt the result of BREXIT and follows all the forecasts, nothing to do with your currency wars. The road map is clear. We are in for a rough ride with absolutely no benefit from the loss. People, are feeling the pain now and we are only a few month in.
Sympathy belongs to those that are now feeling the damage and loss. Those that were grossly misled by people who have deserted the field to pride themselves on a hollow and damaging victory.
The strong will survive. Europe will most certainly survive and we must hope that an isolated UK can keep the single market access that is desperately needed.
The UK is lost and without clear direction. Uncertainty remains and inflation will very soon impact on our economy. Sterling will fall yet again when article 50 is submitted. Hedge your fund on that you too could survive.

[waz-24-7]

Waz, just as a comparison. The lowest recent sterling levels I can find ( after a very quick check ) reveal that the £ against the $ was £1--- $1.03 in March 1985 and the £ against the Euro was £1---1.0219 euro in December 2008. The UK was firmly a part of the EU on both occasions so we can expect currency fluctuations to continue if the UK is either in or out of the EU. Just saying.

You may well be correct.
The collapse of sterling by circa 20% in just 10 weeks is without doubt as a result of BREXIT.
Currency fluctuations are common and occur continually that is correct.
It is the clear downward trend that indicated an evaporation of confidence in the UK as BREXIT and uncertainty prevails.
USA interest rates are likely to rise post presidential elections. Sterling will then fall further as money moves across the pond where opportunity is clearly better.
If you read my other posts you may see my thoughts and predictions.

Sterling value is a critical factor for ex pats. The future of sterling is bleak and fluctuations will not bring strength back anytime soon.

[waz-24-7]

Certainly the UK will survive outside of the EU. It is very noticeable however that the BREXIT camp including the many supporters on this FORUM have faded into the shadows possibly now experiencing the real cost (financial) of the vote.
Sterling will continue to weaken. This week as talk or Article 50 submission is on the agenda sterling falls again.
If you are a hedge gambler then take heed upon a possibly fall to 1.05 euro. 2.85tl 1.19 $. My D day for this is May 5th 2017.
The cost of BREXIT, in my view, was always going to be a massive hit. It was forecast.
The climb back has commenced but for many youngsters the future recently became much more of a challenge.
The story is far from over. The climb ahead is hard ,steep and long in duration.
I fear the end will provide no real benefit or gain just isolation and segregation for a misguided nation

Personally, I admire your attempts to continue to post a gloomy scenario for the future of the UK.

I cannot speak for others but I know that if I could be bothered I could find enough articles, discussions etc to counter all of the above claims made by yourself. As for the future pre and post Brexit - none of us really know how things will work out, however it does look like a hard Brexit....if the politicians are to be believed!

I am still happy that the majority voted to leave the EU and will watch, read and wait with interest, rather than keep posting doom and gloom scenarios based on what ifs. The slowing down of posts on this topic to my mind means that people on both sides of the discussion; whilst still taking and interest, have moved on and would rather wait for more substantial details before commenting further.

Certainly the UK will survive outside of the EU. It is very noticeable however that the BREXIT camp including the many supporters on this FORUM have faded into the shadows possibly now experiencing the real cost (financial) of the vote.
Sterling will continue to weaken. This week as talk or Article 50 submission is on the agenda sterling falls again.
If you are a hedge gambler then take heed upon a possibly fall to 1.05 euro. 2.85tl 1.19 $. My D day for this is May 5th 2017.
The cost of BREXIT, in my view, was always going to be a massive hit. It was forecast.
The climb back has commenced but for many youngsters the future recently became much more of a challenge.
The story is far from over. The climb ahead is hard ,steep and long in duration.
I fear the end will provide no real benefit or gain just isolation and segregation for a misguided nation

Personally, I admire your attempts to continue to post a gloomy scenario for the future of the UK.

I cannot speak for others but I know that if I could be bothered I could find enough articles, discussions etc to counter all of the above claims made by yourself. As for the future pre and post Brexit - none of us really know how things will work out, however it does look like a hard Brexit....if the politicians are to be believed!

I am still happy that the majority voted to leave the EU and will watch, read and wait with interest, rather than keep posting doom and gloom scenarios based on what ifs. The slowing down of posts on this topic to my mind means that people on both sides of the discussion; whilst still taking and interest, have moved on and would rather wait for more substantial details before commenting further.

Posh
Please do relate some positives as a result of BREXIT.
The predictions made are just about entirely coming home.
The collapse of sterling being the most stark and clear as we start to pay for the result.
There is a clear difference now because predictions are becoming facts. The gloom is indeed fact. The monetary savings that we were promised have evaporated ....I never believed them .
I somehow feel that as the BREXIT camp are witnessing the truths of BREXIT and are suffering the pay back they feel more reluctant to post or comment.

I await comments that can sell me the positives of BREXIT or even list a few truths that have favoured our divorce from Europe. The financial cost to everyone post BREXIT is the concrete reason for the silence.

[PoshinDevon]

Waz

I have already said that if I could be bothered I am confident I could find, articles, news items, political comment etc etc to back up my more positive view on Brexit. However I would rather read, listen and wait to see how things develop and not sit and worry about what may or may not happen. Whatever anyone who wants to leave the EU posts, I am also confident you will pour cold water on their comment.

Given your recent triple postings on this topic your doing well at flogging a dead horse so to speak.