Brit expats leaving Spain 'in droves'

[waz-24-7]

Waz that is a fantastic article. well worth a read especially the comments section which goes a long way to uphold what some of the people on this thread have been saying, ie, the Brits who seem to be ' leaving in droves ' are the same Brits who have been living in Spain under the radar and they are leaving now due to being found out. The Brits who live there by the rules seem to be having no problems at all.

Geoff - was too much uncontrolled immigration in to the UK by EU citizens a valid reason why the UK needed to leave the EU ? Does Brexit allow the UK to now reduce these numbers by making the rules harder or was the problem simply that too many EU citizens came and lived in the UK without following the old rules properly ? Would you be happy to have the old pre Brexit rules for who can come and live in the UK from the EU as long as everyone followed those old rules properly ? Or was being able to make new different and harder rules essential ?

Brexit has made it harder for EU citizens that want to live in the UK and low and behold less are now doing so as a result. Brexit has also made it harder for UK citizens to live in EU countries and low and behold less are doing so.

When the rules changed here there were some who had been living here for years, following the rules, who found they were then unable to follow the new rules when they changed, like demonstrable income levels changing. These people exist in the Spanish example post Brexit too. No I do not know exact numbers but such people do exist. Have to exist for if they do not then it really does mean there was no point in leaving the EU at all as far as immigration went. Maybe that is your argument and point and I have misunderstood you ? Somehow I suspect not.

Indeed.
It was and always will be a two way street. The UK cannot possibly expect or believe ( but many did I think) that it was all single way traffic of take take take. Cake and eat it again springs to mind.

As the UK voted to limit immigration via Brexit; voters, possibly unwittingly, made it more difficult for UK citizens to live, work and travel within the EU.
By the same token. As the promised trade deals slowly ...and very very slowly emerge; such as the Australia deal for example. The UK has opened the doors to cheap Australian lamb and mutton and the consequence is that UK producers of same cannot compete with the cheaper import of same. Hence the complaints from UK sheep farming sector.

Current fisheries issues are not simply restricting EU fishermen in UK coastal waters as many expected and wanted. The Brexit deal is also restricting UK fishermen from landing and selling their catch to their biggest customers in the EU. Both France and the UK are at a loss with little possibility of returning to the smoother, easier and workable pre Brexit arrangement.

The Spanish exodus, therefore , If it is indeed believed by the few as well as the many. Is just another example of the nature of divorce.
There are no real winners. Only loss, strife and misery. And whilst all this is going on in and around the UK. The EU and our global competitors are out there securing the most and extremely valuable trade deals with the likes of the USA.

[PoshinDevon]

Erol,

If you read my posts you will note that I have already said the reasons for those British expats leaving Spain are varied. I even listed a few examples as to why this might be.

“Leaving in droves” is a headline grabber. We are leaving because it’s “to difficult” in no way explains why. That’s the detail I am after. I really cannot understand those who hang their hat on the argument that people are leaving because it’s to difficult. I realised a long time ago that trying to pin Waz down to debate a topic was like wrestling a crocodile, questions or challenges would be ignored and his posts would go off on a different tangent. You are right to ignore them. I will attempt to do the same.

I will finish by saying; yes I support the decision for the U.K. to leave the EU, but I fully appreciate it will not be all plain sailing. I still believe long term the decision was correct. My position on Brexit I hope is a balanced one, I don’t believe the position taken by Waz on the opposite side of the argument is the same and to be blunt it seems to be all about the inconvenience to him.

If my position puts me in the category of a “Brexit zealot” then so be it.

[Geoff1131]

It seems to me that both erol and waz will never accept the reality that Brexit exists and was the choice made by the UK population. They both go on and on and on and on about the unfairness inflicted on UK citizens who now find it more difficult to go and live in any EU country ( not impossible just more difficult ) But there are other issues that spring to mind that they both totally ignore. If staying inside the EU was utopia and everyone is able to live in or work in the country of their choice. Should not the old age pension rights of European citizens not also have been ruled to be equal across the area? British pensioners are getting far less than pensioners who are citizens of say France and Germany. Is this acceptable to erol and waz??? or is this also a case of having ones cake and eating it? Also the refugee crisis that is currently ongoing in Europe. Can erol or waz please explain to me, why these people leave their respective countries, travel through many EU states and leave the EU behind them to risk their lives to cross a waterway in the hope of reaching the UK if they would be better off staying in the EU utopia? This again makes no sense to me. Answers on the back of a postage stamp please.

[tutor4u]

Can erol or waz please explain to me, why these people leave their respective countries, travel through many EU states and leave the EU behind them to risk their lives to cross a waterway in the hope of reaching the UK if they would be better off staying in the EU utopia? This again makes no sense to me. Answers on the back of a postage stamp please.

The benefit system is better, free NHS, free housing etc

[EnjoyingTheSun]

I rarely comment on anything waz posts because I actually stopped reading his posts a long time ago. I am not waz.

Of course not, he does his job I guess?

You will read the replies to Waz in depth though won't you? When Waz say's millions and someone says it was only 27,000 you'll leap on that reply and say it was over 30,000 and demand the person stops trying to push false facts.
It's subtle but pretty transparent once the penny drops.

That is the smoke and mirrors, cake and eat it argument.

No people are simply asking how many are droves? One of those details that you always profess to be interested in.

I'm sure no-one who voted leave imagined for one second that every single person in the UK would be better off if we left the EU. I voted leave because I didn't like how the EU was developing and believed economically we would be better out of it long term.
Obviously I had I have known Edward and Cynthia would only be able to spend 3 months a year in their holiday home or their daughter Tabatha couldn't have a subsidised 6th form year in Tuscany doing media studies I would have thought again.

'

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Thank goodness we left the EU because we now apparently wont get any more terrorist attacks from EU passport holders at least. Did Mr Farage tell you that too.

If borders are less open then it follows they will be more secure.
I didn't realise it was Farage who searched your luggage, how awful for you?

[waz-24-7]

Can erol or waz please explain to me, why these people leave their respective countries, travel through many EU states and leave the EU behind them to risk their lives to cross a waterway in the hope of reaching the UK if they would be better off staying in the EU utopia? This again makes no sense to me. Answers on the back of a postage stamp please.

The benefit system is better, free NHS, free housing etc

Many millions of people across the globe are less fortunate than most in the UK and indeed the western world. War, famine and climate change present untold challenges to millions of families.
I consider myself born into the privilege of being a UK citizen. I try not to take this for granted tho it is difficult.

It is not shameful to seek a better life in other countries. Migration is not going to go away and those that think closing their doors to the "undesirables" will protect their precious utopia is foolish indeed.
Geoff, Perhaps you live in Cyprus for a better life than in UK . You may have that choice and you should be thankful . I think it unlikely that you were forced to flee the UK or were forced into asylum or desperation drove you to some drastic actions that threatened your life.

It is pure fallacy to think that migrants want to come to the UK for just the FREE benefits you highlight. This is pure xenophobia and it is shameful to take that position.
UK is certainly not the only recipient of migrating people tho some consider it is. The EU is a desirable area to secure betterment. The fact remains that the UK is also a desirable place to live and work and prosper. So is the EU and USA. The UK by enlarge consider it better to become selective and disregard the rest of the world in dealing with the issues. I hope that clarifies for you why the UK is a popular destination.

I do hope that climate change can be dealt with by the UK government and by many UK citizens in a more pro active thoughtful manner than its xenophobic attitude towards immigration. A global union of nations is needed to address the many and various global issues and any country that thinks they can go it alone and be prosperous both financially and with social responsibility is doomed to failure.

[waz-24-7]

Thank goodness we left the EU because we now apparently wont get any more terrorist attacks from EU passport holders at least. Did Mr Farage tell you that too.

If borders are less open then it follows they will be more secure.
I didn't realise it was Farage who searched your luggage, how awful for you?

Great!!
lets close all the worlds borders and at least we are safe. Then its only the "undesirables " that we have locked within our sanctuary that we need to deal with.
Perhaps Mr Farage has given up his wealth improvement business campaign for the wealthy to assist the EU in repelling the undesirables that he has managed to exclude from UK shores. Such a noble cause ?? He may even come north and assist the Cypriots in excluding Turkish mainlanders tfrom moving to the TRNC. After all they were all going to come to the UK.

[erol]

“Leaving in droves” is a headline grabber. We are leaving because it’s “to difficult” in no way explains why.

I just do not know what it is that you want Posh or why you want it. What you think having such information will reveal to you that you did not already know ? Do you want some list of all the specific changes resulting from Brexit re living in in Spain as UK citizen plus all the other reasons why someone may decide to leave that are not to do with Brexit and then some estimate as too how much each of these factors individually contributed to each person that is leaving decision to do so ? Even if such information was compliable, which it is not, what do you think such information would make clear to you ? Sorry I just do not get it. Do not understand what it is you actually want or why.

[erol]

It seems to me that both erol and waz will never accept the reality that Brexit exists and was the choice made by the UK population.

What does that even mean Geoff ? You think I go up to EU borders with my UK passport and demand entry as an EU citizen because I do not accept Brexit exists ? That I go to exchange bureaus and demand they give 1.32 euro for each pound because that is the rate when Brexit does not exist ?

They both go on and on and on and on about the unfairness inflicted on UK citizens who now find it more difficult to go and live in any EU country ( not impossible just more difficult )

No I do not go on and on about the unfairness inflicted on UK citizens by Brexit that want to live in EU countries. Your claim is just not true as far as I am concerned. What I am saying is that Brexit means it is harder for EU citizens to live in the UK and it is harder for UK citizens to live in EU countries and that has resulted in numbers each way reducing. That this was one of the points of Brexit. That if it did not result in this it would be the equivalent of water running uphill. I do this in response to a thread full of people arguing that actually Brexit has not made it harder for any UK citizen that wants to live in the EU other than those who do not want to follow the rules.

[waz-24-7]

Can erol or waz please explain to me, why these people leave their respective countries, travel through many EU states and leave the EU behind them to risk their lives to cross a waterway in the hope of reaching the UK if they would be better off staying in the EU utopia? This again makes no sense to me. Answers on the back of a postage stamp please.

The benefit system is better, free NHS, free housing etc

Oh dear!!
Yes of course the UK will be flooded with scroungers!!
So outdated , wrong and totally misinformed.
Without doubt immigrants have massively benefited the UK economy, health service and support structure since the days of the commonwealth.
Why did British colonial historical conquests seek out labour, prosperity and opportunity across the globe?
Now the UK has lost the majority of the past conquests; is it time to lock out immigrants as undesirables? It would appear so.

You should spend more time in the UK and reality check both presently and historically back to the days when the UK traded in real cheap labour referred to as slavery.

[ginge]

Thank goodness we left the EU because we now apparently wont get any more terrorist attacks from EU passport holders at least. Did Mr Farage tell you that too.

If borders are less open then it follows they will be more secure.
I didn't realise it was Farage who searched your luggage, how awful for you?

Great!!
lets close all the worlds borders and at least we are safe. Then its only the "undesirables " that we have locked within our sanctuary that we need to deal with.
Perhaps Mr Farage has given up his wealth improvement business campaign for the wealthy to assist the EU in repelling the undesirables that he has managed to exclude from UK shores. Such a noble cause ?? He may even come north and assist the Cypriots in excluding Turkish mainlanders tfrom moving to the TRNC. After all they were all going to come to the UK.

Haven't you got any mates you can chat to about brexit instead of driving everyone mad about it on this forum?

[erol]

I rarely comment on anything waz posts because I actually stopped reading his posts a long time ago. I am not waz.

Of course not, he does his job I guess?

You will read the replies to Waz in depth though won't you? When Waz say's millions and someone says it was only 27,000 you'll leap on that reply and say it was over 30,000 and demand the person stops trying to push false facts.
It's subtle but pretty transparent once the penny drops.

That is the smoke and mirrors, cake and eat it argument.

No people are simply asking how many are droves? One of those details that you always profess to be interested in.

I'm sure no-one who voted leave imagined for one second that every single person in the UK would be better off if we left the EU. I voted leave because I didn't like how the EU was developing and believed economically we would be better out of it long term.
Obviously I had I have known Edward and Cynthia would only be able to spend 3 months a year in their holiday home or their daughter Tabatha couldn't have a subsidised 6th form year in Tuscany doing media studies I would have thought again.

'

I am tired. This is tiring.

ETS what do you think of people that are willing to imply or insinuate or suggest or say you want the same thing as or are racist on a forum like this from behind their keyboard and anonymous IDs, who when challenged to say the same thing to your face decline such an offer ? What kind of regard do you hold such people in ? What would be your views be on the 'persona' they project on the forum vs the reality of who they are ? What kind and degree of contempt do you hold such people in ? Would 'someone willing to say things about another person online and with anonymity but who will not say the same things to that persons face' be a fair definition of a 'keyboard warrior' ?

Having called you out in private and been blanked I am going to call you out here in public. Come and tell me to my face that you really believe that the views expressed here by me about taking the knee are not my real views but just a cover I use because my real objective is to covertly push and promote and achieve by any means the subversion of the current status quo by extreme Marxist doctrine. Come and tell me to my face you believe the real reason I have posted what I have in this thread is not to be taken at face value because my real goal is bring down all boarders and destroy all nation states. Come and tell me to my face that you believe anything I post here is insincere and has a secret hidden agenda motivating it.

Or dont, but do understand I can see no reason if that is your choice why I should not just regard you as a typical keyboard warrior and respond to you here as such.

Or the short version, grow up or do not be surprised if you get treated like a child.

[PoshinDevon]

Erol,

Ok you win, I give up trying to debate this topic based on real facts and evidence. I will just say again that I thought you of all people would base your argument on facts and detail. Its impossible to debate with Waz, but I really thought you; who is well known for posting a lot of evidence, facts, figures and detail would have contributed as such. I have tried but sadly it seems that you are tired and cannot be bothered.

I am not and never will be a Brexit zealot as you say so thats it I am out.

[waz-24-7]

Erol,

Ok you win, I give up trying to debate this topic based on real facts and evidence. I will just say again that I thought you of all people would base your argument on facts and detail. Its impossible to debate with Waz, but I really thought you; who is well known for posting a lot of evidence, facts, figures and detail would have contributed as such. I have tried but sadly it seems that you are tired and cannot be bothered.

I am not and never will be a Brexit zealot as you say so thats it I am out.

Posh,
I think a case has been presented from not only myself that your insistence on factual evidence is rather flawed and without substance.
I am more than happy to debate subjects and topics that interest me.
I'm afraid that your own debating skills ;I find somewhat lacking based on your poorly structured requests for irrelevant information particularly evidence that has no real bearing on topics of interest.
Your own posts lack exactly the evidence that you appear to crave for.
My posts most usually are comments based on same from other contributors.
You will note that I do not follow your own policy of seeking factual evidence but am content to accept that the majority do indeed post in good faith.
I think that if you released yourself from an insistence to provide evidence then you might get more out of this and other debates.

I would not say you are a Brexit zealot at all but your denial of the clear issues from Brexit based on continual demands for fact based evidence do not justify that same denial.

[Brazen]

We seem to have difficulty putting a number to “droves”, but I would suggest that it is an irrelevance In the main scheme of things when the population of the Uk approaches 70m. Does anyone really believe that the electorate, other than those it affects, give a flying fig about the so-called droves? The only ones that seem to care, but really don’t, are the remain voters who are so gullible that they think that printing “droves “ in large headlines will somehow make us rejoin the Eu. The numbers living abroad are a very small percentage of the Uk population, in fact most of the latter have never been overseas. Have droves left the TRNC? I believe that a large number have because I knew some of them and they left for varying reasons including health, home sickness, not settling and the problems that successive governments put in our way.
I suggest that those who purport to be businessmen get on and try to make things work better rather that continually wasting time on this forum whinging about something that has occurred and won’t change unless the Eu project changes course.

[Kanonier]

Hear, hear. The only common sense that I have read on this (and similar) threads.

[erol]

Does anyone really believe that the electorate, other than those it affects, give a flying fig about the so-called droves? The only ones that seem to care, but really don’t, are the remain voters who are so gullible that they think that printing “droves “ in large headlines will somehow make us rejoin the Eu.

This thread is four pages long and the majority of those contributing to it voted to leave.

[Brazen]

Does anyone really believe that the electorate, other than those it affects, give a flying fig about the so-called droves? The only ones that seem to care, but really don’t, are the remain voters who are so gullible that they think that printing “droves “ in large headlines will somehow make us rejoin the Eu.

This thread is four pages long and the majority of those contributing to it voted to leave.

Yes that’s true enough, there are only a few whingers to whom they are replying.

[waz-24-7]

We seem to have difficulty putting a number to “droves”, but I would suggest that it is an irrelevance In the main scheme of things when the population of the Uk approaches 70m. Does anyone really believe that the electorate, other than those it affects, give a flying fig about the so-called droves? The only ones that seem to care, but really don’t, are the remain voters who are so gullible that they think that printing “droves “ in large headlines will somehow make us rejoin the Eu. The numbers living abroad are a very small percentage of the Uk population, in fact most of the latter have never been overseas. Have droves left the TRNC? I believe that a large number have because I knew some of them and they left for varying reasons including health, home sickness, not settling and the problems that successive governments put in our way.
I suggest that those who purport to be businessmen get on and try to make things work better rather that continually wasting time on this forum whinging about something that has occurred and won’t change unless the Eu project changes course.

I see no importance in securing a number the "droves" reflects. The term was employed by the UK tabloid press and some seem intent on analysing to the nth degree. Not myself.
The population of the UK has no relevance also in the debate bar possibly as you indicate the small % that are effected directly.

I doubt very much that this discussion or the print of "droves" will change the EU position. It is however clear that the UK now finds itself hurled into various issues that directly effect travellers, Ex pats, Buisness and trade and of course prosperity.
It is without doubt that all are "getting on with it". Discussion upon the issues and solutions to facilitate the "get on" is useful and not at all wasteful in my opinion. As to whinging.

Is your post not indeed Whinge in itself ??

[Brazen]

We seem to have difficulty putting a number to “droves”, but I would suggest that it is an irrelevance In the main scheme of things when the population of the Uk approaches 70m. Does anyone really believe that the electorate, other than those it affects, give a flying fig about the so-called droves? The only ones that seem to care, but really don’t, are the remain voters who are so gullible that they think that printing “droves “ in large headlines will somehow make us rejoin the Eu. The numbers living abroad are a very small percentage of the Uk population, in fact most of the latter have never been overseas. Have droves left the TRNC? I believe that a large number have because I knew some of them and they left for varying reasons including health, home sickness, not settling and the problems that successive governments put in our way.
I suggest that those who purport to be businessmen get on and try to make things work better rather that continually wasting time on this forum whinging about something that has occurred and won’t change unless the Eu project changes course.

I see no importance in securing a number the "droves" reflects. The term was employed by the UK tabloid press and some seem intent on analysing to the nth degree. Not myself.
The population of the UK has no relevance also in the debate bar possibly as you indicate the small % that are effected directly.

I doubt very much that this discussion or the print of "droves" will change the EU position. It is however clear that the UK now finds itself hurled into various issues that directly effect travellers, Ex pats, Buisness and trade and of course prosperity.
It is without doubt that all are "getting on with it". Discussion upon the issues and solutions to facilitate the "get on" is useful and not at all wasteful in my opinion. As to whinging.

Is your post not indeed Whinge in itself ??

Yes, it’s a whinge about the constant whingeing of which you appear to be the main culprit.

[waz-24-7]

We seem to have difficulty putting a number to “droves”, but I would suggest that it is an irrelevance In the main scheme of things when the population of the Uk approaches 70m. Does anyone really believe that the electorate, other than those it affects, give a flying fig about the so-called droves? The only ones that seem to care, but really don’t, are the remain voters who are so gullible that they think that printing “droves “ in large headlines will somehow make us rejoin the Eu. The numbers living abroad are a very small percentage of the Uk population, in fact most of the latter have never been overseas. Have droves left the TRNC? I believe that a large number have because I knew some of them and they left for varying reasons including health, home sickness, not settling and the problems that successive governments put in our way.
I suggest that those who purport to be businessmen get on and try to make things work better rather that continually wasting time on this forum whinging about something that has occurred and won’t change unless the Eu project changes course.

I see no importance in securing a number the "droves" reflects. The term was employed by the UK tabloid press and some seem intent on analysing to the nth degree. Not myself.
The population of the UK has no relevance also in the debate bar possibly as you indicate the small % that are effected directly.

I doubt very much that this discussion or the print of "droves" will change the EU position. It is however clear that the UK now finds itself hurled into various issues that directly effect travellers, Ex pats, Buisness and trade and of course prosperity.
It is without doubt that all are "getting on with it". Discussion upon the issues and solutions to facilitate the "get on" is useful and not at all wasteful in my opinion. As to whinging.

Is your post not indeed Whinge in itself ??

Yes, it’s a whinge about the constant whingeing of which you appear to be the main culprit.

I cannot identify any whinge against your posts or indeed others bar the few that take joy from insult. Your contribution most recently appears rather devoid of anything useful.
You may meaningfully contribute if you so wish OR simply go away.

[Brazen]

I see no importance in securing a number the "droves" reflects. The term was employed by the UK tabloid press and some seem intent on analysing to the nth degree. Not myself.
The population of the UK has no relevance also in the debate bar possibly as you indicate the small % that are effected directly.

I doubt very much that this discussion or the print of "droves" will change the EU position. It is however clear that the UK now finds itself hurled into various issues that directly effect travellers, Ex pats, Buisness and trade and of course prosperity.
It is without doubt that all are "getting on with it". Discussion upon the issues and solutions to facilitate the "get on" is useful and not at all wasteful in my opinion. As to whinging.

Is your post not indeed Whinge in itself ??

Yes, it’s a whinge about the constant whingeing of which you appear to be the main culprit.

I cannot identify any whinge against your posts or indeed others bar the few that take joy from insult. Your contribution most recently appears rather devoid of anything useful.
You may meaningfully contribute if you so wish OR simply go away.

Well of course we all understand that those that voted leave are all knuckle dragging Neanderthals and those that voted remain are the intelligentsia but you appear to be under the delusion that you are always right and any that disagree are wrong. As for going away perhaps you ought to take your own advice and get out more away from your PC and give us all a rest?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

ETS what do you think of people that are willing to imply or insinuate or suggest or say you want the same thing as or are racist on a forum like this from behind their keyboard and anonymous IDs, who when challenged to say the same thing to your face decline such an offer ? What kind of regard do you hold such people in ? What would be your views be on the 'persona' they project on the forum vs the reality of who they are ? What kind and degree of contempt do you hold such people in ?

I despise racists because they are bullies and for me it is one of the worst character flaws you can have. However I do not think anyone expressing concerns about the level of immigration and questioning why someone who has no family ties in the UK, doesn’t speak English and who has not come from a country where they are in any danger would cross several safe countries to get to the UK.
My hatred of racism is why it sickens me when the word is bandied about freely so it diminishes it’s meaning about anyone who’s views are not to the far lefts. So you are going to have to show me some examples of these rascists posts.
I despise Marxists and Facists because they are the same thing to me. Both of them destroy people’s freedoms, subjugate their population and inevitably murder millions. The only difference to them I can see is the Marxists are more subtle and have better PR

Having called you out in private and been blanked I am going to call you out here in public. Come and tell me to my face that you really believe that the views expressed here by me about taking the knee are not my real views but just a cover I use because my real objective is to covertly push and promote and achieve by any means the subversion of the current status quo by extreme Marxist doctrine. Come and tell me to my face you believe the real reason I have posted what I have in this thread is not to be taken at face value because my real goal is bring down all boarders and destroy all nation states. Come and tell me to my face that you believe anything I post here is insincere and has a secret hidden agenda motivating it.

I don’t know where you are going with this but if it makes you happier then I’ll say I am terrified of you because you are a true freedom fighter and I fear I might be attacked by your thesaurus if that makes you happy?

No-one was against a show against racism, they were against THAT show against racism because many saw it as a Trojan horse. But for you and others it has to be THAT show of racism because you support the BLM far more than you are concerned about any racism black people face.

Re borders you will obviously say I am not against unlimited immigration but will never give a ball park number of how many per year you think would be fair. You will rightly point out how many immigrants have made a valuable contribution to the UK but fight bitterly against any system that ensures we bring in more of those immigrants who will make a contribution.

Because you realise your party has lost the working class and needs to import voters.
You and the left also want to remove nation states because you want everyone to live only in the state of kumbaya where the state will provide and think for them.

That’s fine that’s your view and you are entitled to it but be honest about it. I’m honest enough to say I disagree fundamentally with that view.

You’ve been rumbled old son. You’ve had a good run but you can only fool all of the people some of the time.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

your insistence on factual evidence is rather flawed and without substance.

So to be clear not only do your vote to be worth more than other people's, you want your opinions and feelings to outweigh facts which might be inconvenient to the point you are making?

Brilliant!

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Great!!
lets close all the worlds borders and at least we are safe. Then its only the "undesirables " that we have locked within our sanctuary that we need to deal with.

Who has said close the borders? You were allowed through Larnaca, correct? Or do you want to add some more to your anecdote? If so by all means. you won't be the first.
Not sure where you are going with undesirables? Let's assume you mean terrorists. Yes I am fully in favour of not importing fresh potential terrorists and concentrating on any potential terrorists we have

Perhaps Mr Farage has given up his wealth improvement business campaign for the wealthy to assist the EU in repelling the undesirables that he has managed to exclude from UK shores. Such a noble cause ?? He may even come north and assist the Cypriots in excluding Turkish mainlanders tfrom moving to the TRNC. After all they were all going to come to the UK.

You seem very upset that Farage has made a few quid and seem to insist on raising it in any post about him. I can only assume that is a case that you have trouble attacking his arguments so play the man not the ball.
Many years ago there was a tennis player called Bill Tilden who 'enjoyed' the company of underage boys and was arrested for it. It didn't mean that he wasn't one hell of a tennis player though.

[erol]

I don’t know where you are going with this but if it makes you happier then I’ll say I am terrified of you because you are a true freedom fighter and I fear I might be attacked by your thesaurus if that makes you happy?

There is a reason why you are willing to say things about me here anonymously that you have never said and will not say openly to my face and no it is not because your are frightened of me. Think on that and while you are at it you can toss in 'forum personas' and 'being rumbled' if you like.

No-one was against a show against racism, they were against THAT show against racism because many saw it as a Trojan horse. But for you and others it has to be THAT show of racism because you support the BLM far more than you are concerned about any racism black people face.

Lets get this out of the way first. You are not racist. Whoop de flipping do. Congratulations. Have a medal or something.

What you say above is bollocks. There are people that are against any and all forms of 'anti racism' gesture. They are called racists. They exist. They are against any gestures but taking the knee and BLM is the one they really want to target more than any because it mobilised more people globally than anything those racist had ever seen before in their lives.

You are not racist but you do support exactly the same things actual racist would support on this issue. But no one is allowed to say that without you getting on your holier than thou high horse. Yet you can say to me (but never to my face) that my views are because I want to further the cause of extreme Marxism. Not only are you allowed to do that it is pretty much all you ever do to anything I say here. Just go back and check. I know you are not a racist just as you know I am not a radical marxist. I have never called you a racist , not here or to your face. You have never called me a radical marxist to my face but you do so here. You could and so often do start any reply to anything I say on anything with some variant of 'the problem with marxists is'. It is all you do. Have ever done here. No on can reply to anything you say with 'the problem with racists is' even when your opinions ARE exactly in line with what racists would be. No that is beyond the pale. You do not play fair. Here. In your keyboard warrior persona. Never have.

So if all that is on offer is this forum persona of your ETS then I decline to play because you do not play fair here, have never played fair, and probably do not even realise you do not play fair. You not doing it in real life was the only thing that kept me engaging here. Without it you are what you for me, just a keyboard warrior.

Because you realise your party has lost the working class and needs to import voters.

That is the problem with engaging with a keyboard warrior online. It is like talking to a brick wall because they have no interest what so ever in what you say. Ever. Labour is no more 'my party' than being pissed on is my thing because I chose being pissed on over being shat on. I do not vote. Never vote. Have never been member of any political party ever anywhere. Never campaigned for one. Never knocked on doors. You know all this. You do not behave like this in the real world only here in your keyboard warrior persona. It was your saving grace.

Because I am not a child I am still open to meeting in real life. I quite like you there. Here we are done.

[PoshinDevon]

Erol wrote ….”That is the problem with engaging with a keyboard warrior online. It is like talking to a brick wall because they have no interest what so ever in what you say. Ever.”

I know someone who posts on this forum who fits this description.

[waz-24-7]

Yes, it’s a whinge about the constant whingeing of which you appear to be the main culprit.

I cannot identify any whinge against your posts or indeed others bar the few that take joy from insult. Your contribution most recently appears rather devoid of anything useful.
You may meaningfully contribute if you so wish OR simply go away.

Well of course we all understand that those that voted leave are all knuckle dragging Neanderthals and those that voted remain are the intelligentsia but you appear to be under the delusion that you are always right and any that disagree are wrong. As for going away perhaps you ought to take your own advice and get out more away from your PC and give us all a rest?

Not words or descriptions that I have used. All yours and apparently your view.
As to your advice upon PC usage. Reading or contribution upon the forum is not compulsory.
Perhaps you should pick up a good book and leave the forum.

[erol]

Erol wrote ….”That is the problem with engaging with a keyboard warrior online. It is like talking to a brick wall because they have no interest what so ever in what you say. Ever.”

I know someone who posts on this forum who fits this description.

To know someone is on this spectrum is to know exactly nothing because we are all on the spectrum. There is only information in degree. Relative , absolute or both to degrees as per any given context.

In any case to qualify as a keyboard warrior I would have to only be willing to say what I say here, here but not to a persons face. Lets have a beer some time Posh

[PoshinDevon]

Trust me Erol… your description fits perfectly.

A beer… of course.

[kibsolar1999]

It seems to me that both erol and waz will never accept the reality that Brexit exists and was the choice made by the UK population.

British pensioners are getting far less than pensioners who are citizens of say France and Germany.

1. pls, do not forget. it was an unbinding referendum with a 48% remain and 52% leave vote.
the "real existing Brexit" was the decision of the UK gov, giving a s*** about the 48%.

2. how much the british contribute to their (state) pension? the germans nearly 19% and the french 28%.

[waz-24-7]

Great!!
lets close all the worlds borders and at least we are safe. Then its only the "undesirables " that we have locked within our sanctuary that we need to deal with.

Who has said close the borders? You were allowed through Larnaca, correct? Or do you want to add some more to your anecdote? If so by all means. you won't be the first.
Not sure where you are going with undesirables? Let's assume you mean terrorists. Yes I am fully in favour of not importing fresh potential terrorists and concentrating on any potential terrorists we have

Perhaps Mr Farage has given up his wealth improvement business campaign for the wealthy to assist the EU in repelling the undesirables that he has managed to exclude from UK shores. Such a noble cause ?? He may even come north and assist the Cypriots in excluding Turkish mainlanders tfrom moving to the TRNC. After all they were all going to come to the UK.

You seem very upset that Farage has made a few quid and seem to insist on raising it in any post about him. I can only assume that is a case that you have trouble attacking his arguments so play the man not the ball.
Many years ago there was a tennis player called Bill Tilden who 'enjoyed' the company of underage boys and was arrested for it. It didn't mean that he wasn't one hell of a tennis player though.

I believe that it was your own your comment referred to closed borders in order to hold back the undesirable and keep same in foreign countries where they are not a UK problem.

I am not upset over Mr Farage and his new job. I am dismayed that this pied piper of a man led the charge to entice the Brexit voter to jump on his red bus and help secure his goal. I have never had any problem in rejecting his Brexit ideology or arguments. For example. Did 3 million Turks really threaten to invade UK shores?? Has the NHS benefited from the £20 million a week new money?? Has there been a flood of the new trade deals ?? So we have limited freedom of movement and now we have no lorry drivers , health works, agricultural workers and many more. Have we apparently taken back control? I don't think so as the issues that continue to emerge are very much out of our control.
The man , after Brexit , disappears into the mist without even a wave goodbye releasing him to entice the wealthy to part with money that he can turn into more. Good rear move for him. Not for the red bus supporters or the experts that were ignored. I wonder how he would deal with the current Brexit issues that many continue to discuss and deal with.
I don't think Brexit is as simple as a tennis match do you?? If it was, it would be rather more easy to get on with it. Perhaps the next game will be the UK breakup referendum.

[PoshinDevon]

As tempting as it is, please keep to the topic. It is beginning to drift away.

Discussion is Brit expats leaving Spain in droves.

[waz-24-7]

As tempting as it is, please keep to the topic. It is beginning to drift away.

Discussion is Brit expats leaving Spain in droves.

Agreed on that certainly.

So is the Tabloid press right or wrong to report this news??
I think yes...in good faith of the report.
Brexit is certainly the main factor leading to the decisions, supported possibly by other factors but my experience is that the new regime of being non European has led to the departures.

That is my view.
Other views welcomed but without the worthless jibes and mud slinging.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

I believe that it was your own your comment referred to closed borders in order to hold back the undesirable and keep same in foreign countries where they are not a UK problem.

Where did I say that?
You might have wanted me to say that and when I used the word borders you filled in the blanks to suit but you’ll have to link me to where I said that.

You do know the difference between closed and secure don’t you? Because I do.

If it helps think of a turnstile at a stadium.

It will have someone manning it who will check your ticket to see if you are allowed entry.
He will do this for fairness, that you have bought a ticket like others have and also for safety.
If 100,000 go into a stadium that only holds 50,000 then people are going to get hurt and possibly die.

However if the turnstiles to the stadiums were closed then no-one could see the event whether they had bought a ticket or not and the probabilities are that eventually the stadium wouldn’t hold events anymore?

The man , after Brexit , disappears into the mist without even a wave goodbye

Farage was a one issue politician who achieved that one issue.
Unlike many, maybe he wasn’t a professional activist and didn’t want to search around for the next cause?
What were you expecting him to hold an open [red] bus parade the day after?

I’ll ignore the rest as it’s the usual nonsense which has been answered countless times.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

So is the Tabloid press right or wrong to report this news??
I think yes...in good faith of the report.

Yes they should report it accurately and in context. By context I mean is the headline droves in any way accurate? If the journalist believes it is accurate then he needs to supply numbers. How many Brits were in Spain and how many leave on average.
The problem with the press now is many have long abandoned any pretence at unbiased reporting of the facts and are activists who are given a column to push their views.
So yes they reported it because it might be news but whether it was in good faith I have serious doubts

[waz-24-7]

So is the Tabloid press right or wrong to report this news??
I think yes...in good faith of the report.

Yes they should report it accurately and in context. By context I mean is the headline droves in any way accurate? If the journalist believes it is accurate then he needs to supply numbers. How many Brits were in Spain and how many leave on average.
The problem with the press now is many have long abandoned any pretence at unbiased reporting of the facts and are activists who are given a column to push their views.
So yes they reported it because it might be news but whether it was in good faith I have serious doubts

Okay
so your view is that the tabloid report is incorrect OR possibly without substance.
In earlier posts it was illustrated that if you make something more difficult people will likely do less of it and OR stop doing it.
I think this applies to ex pats within the European union.
On this basis I believe the tabloid report to be correct. On actual Spanish numbers we can only speculate. The same difficulties and results can be applied to other EU countries.
Non EU destinations such as Thailand, turkey are more popular. Northern Cyprus less so because of the new difficulties of access.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

1. pls, do not forget. it was an unbinding referendum with a 48% remain and 52% leave vote.
the "real existing Brexit" was the decision of the UK gov, giving a s*** about the 48%.

Not the unbinding referendum nonsense again.

The government and the politicians serve the people.

It was pretty obvious to Cameron, a staunch remainer that the people wanted a say on Europe.
This was evidenced by the support that UKIP was attracting which was making it look unlikely that Cameron could form a majority government.
So Cameron offered a referendum and won. He thought that he would be able to convince the people to vote to remain.

He failed, people voted to leave in a huge turnout in the expectation that their wishes would be obeyed.
They did not take part in a survey they took part in a referendum that they believed would decide our future in the EU.

Next we had May.
May was also a remainer and fudged around the issue trying for us to leave in name only.
Her support died in the 2017 election. Corbyn did not won over the voters. None of the voters knew where he stood on Brexit tbh but they did know that was the most important issue for them.
Or if it wasn't the fact that they should expect their government to carry out their wishes was,
For all the revisionism here, Corbyn stood in front of an open goal and hit the post.

Then we had Johnson a clear Brexiteer who confirmed that we would leave and the peoples wishes would be carried out.
In the next election he routed Corbyn. Seats that had previously voted for a wheely bin if it wore a red rosette voted Conservative or for the party that would deliver Brexit. The fact that they wrren't keen on voting for a bunch of Marxists who had infiltrated the Labour Party was of course a factor too.

As for the 52% being narrow, it was 52% of a huge turnout.
No government since the second world war has got even 50% of the popular vote but we have allowed them to nationalise industries. form the NHS. take us into Europe and take us into several wars.

[EnjoyingTheSun]

so your view is that the tabloid report is incorrect OR possibly without substance.

I don't know and nor do you because of the lack of facts. figures or context.
I do know with absolute certainty which way the 'jounalist' who wrote the article voted on 23 June 2016 though.
It isn't as much a mystery as to what party Erol supports of course.
Maybe Erol could knock up one of his surveys do you think I favour the SWP, Labour. Conservative, Liberal or the BNP?
I'm happy to have a bet on the result and will let people choose 3 out of the 5 categories as long as I can pick my 2 first.

Non EU destinations such as Thailand, turkey are more popular. Northern Cyprus less so because of the new difficulties of access.

I'm confused. I thought people could only live in Spain because it was in the EU and the UK was in the EU?
Have we joined another organisation that includes Thailand and Turkey because according to your logic it would be impossible for people to move there because they aren't in the same 'club'?

[waz-24-7]

so your view is that the tabloid report is incorrect OR possibly without substance.

I don't know and nor do you because of the lack of facts. figures or context.
I do know with absolute certainty which way the 'jounalist' who wrote the article voted on 23 June 2016 though.
It isn't as much a mystery as to what party Erol supports of course.
Maybe Erol could knock up one of his surveys do you think I favour the SWP, Labour. Conservative, Liberal or the BNP?
I'm happy to have a bet on the result and will let people choose 3 out of the 5 categories as long as I can pick my 2 first.

Non EU destinations such as Thailand, turkey are more popular. Northern Cyprus less so because of the new difficulties of access.

I'm confused. I thought people could only live in Spain because it was in the EU and the UK was in the EU?
Have we joined another organisation that includes Thailand and Turkey because according to your logic it would be impossible for people to move there because they aren't in the same 'club'?

I take the media report in good faith. How the author voted or the bias of the paper is hardly that important.

Turkey is most certainly a destination of choice for many UK citizens, not only because of the exchange rate but possibly they feel slightly more welcome in non EU countries.
Certainly there is an influx within Turkey of UK owned and registered yachts migrating from the EU because of the severe duration of stay restrictions and VAT penalties within for example Greece. Others are transporting their UK yachts and boats back to the UK under the returning goods relief from tax protocol that our government have kindly issued.
My opinion is that a UK exodus from EU countries is underway on the back of negatives created by the forfeit of EU passports. The numbers are not clear but without doubt it cannot be taken as a Brexit positive.

[Geoff1131]

and still waz goes on and on and on and on and on!!!!!!!

[Brazen]

Kibsolar wrote:

1. pls, do not forget. it was an unbinding referendum with a 48% remain and 52% leave vote.
the "real existing Brexit" was the decision of the UK gov, giving a s*** about the 48




The “unbinding ” referendum became binding when Dopey Dave promised that the result would be implemented. Is it your view that the government should not have given a s*** about the 52%?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

I take the media report in good faith. How the author voted or the bias of the paper is hardly that important.

Of course you do because it is saying something you want to believe. If it was a paper that run pro brexit stories you wouldn’t read it.
Obviously journalists will have a political bias, they are as entitled to vote as anyone else. But we do expect them to be professional and report the facts and to be balanced.
Using emotive language like droves with no figures or context to justify it isn’t right.
But as I said before papers are hiring activists not journalists now.

But then as you said in a previous post you don’t actually care about facts do you?

your insistence on factual evidence is rather flawed

[EnjoyingTheSun]

My opinion is that a UK exodus from EU countries is underway on the back of negatives created by the forfeit of EU passports. The numbers are not clear but without doubt it cannot be taken as a Brexit positive.

As you say the numbers aren’t clear so your opinion is really a total guess you hope will come true to spread a little more misery on the EU a unbelievers.

So some British people will either return to the U.K. or move to a country where they feel more comfortable?

So what?

Will that effect the UK greatly?
If people were living in Spain and their money was adding to the Spanish economy then I can see if being a negative if they leave in droves.
If they return it will help the U.K. economy and if they move to Turkey it will help the Turkish economy.

When I voted I was voting for the U.K.’s future and the future of my children and grandchildren not just what would make my life easier. I might have been right or wrong, time will tell, but that was why I voted to leave.

[erol]

Obviously journalists will have a political bias, they are as entitled to vote as anyone else. But we do expect them to be professional and report the facts and to be balanced. Using emotive language like droves with no figures or context to justify it isn’t right. But as I said before papers are hiring activists not journalists now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson

In late 1987, through family connections, he began work as a graduate trainee at The Times.[81] Scandal erupted when Johnson wrote an article on the archaeological discovery of King Edward II's palace for the newspaper, having invented a quote for the article which he falsely attributed to the historian Colin Lucas, his godfather. After the editor Charles Wilson learnt of the matter, he dismissed Johnson.[82]

Johnson secured employment on the leader-writing desk of The Daily Telegraph, having met its editor, Max Hastings, during his Oxford University Union presidency.... In early 1989, Johnson was appointed to the newspaper's Brussels bureau to report on the European Commission,[86] remaining in the post until 1994... He wrote articles about euromyths such as the EU wanting to ban prawn cocktail crisps and British sausages and standardise condom sizes because Italians had smaller penises.[89] Many of his fellow journalists there were critical of his articles, opining they often contained lies designed to discredit the Commission.[90] The Europhile Conservative politician Chris Patten later stated at that time Johnson was "one of the greatest exponents of fake journalism"

[EnjoyingTheSun]

Thank you Erol I didn’t say both sides aren’t guilty of it.

Purely random that you picked out a Tory I expect as you have no bias and don’t favour one side over the other?

I have to say I was really on tenterhooks which example you’d put up, given;

Labour is no more 'my party' than being pissed on is my thing because I chose being pissed on over being shat on. I do not vote. Never vote. Have never been member of any political party ever anywhere.

Unless of course you are going to put up a Labour activist for balance? You won’t have to look far in The Guardian, Owen Jones, Seamus Milne & Ash Sarkar leap to mind unless you feel they are balanced & don’t qualify of course?

[erol]

Thank you Erol I didn’t say both sides aren’t guilty of it.

Another thing you did not say is that you yourself are not guilty of the very thing you accuse another poster of to a degree far in excess of them in the example you use in their case vs the example I gave. Not saying it does not make it any less true.

So do you expect journalists to be professional and report the facts and to be balanced or not ? You did say that is what 'we' expect. Or did you mean you, singular, only expect that when the journalist disagrees with you but everyone else should expect it of all journalist regardless?

[EnjoyingTheSun]

But Erol

Labour is no more 'my party' than being pissed on is my thing because I chose being pissed on over being shat on. I do not vote. Never vote. Have never been member of any political party ever anywhere. Never campaigned for one.

You aren’t biased are you?
You are on the fence, only interested in facts?
No axe to grind?
Given all that I wonder what the probabilities of your random examples favouring one side. Always, every time, without exception.

Like I said you’ve been rumbled old son or if you aren’t sure I can help you realise what side of the fence you are unequivocally on.

That’s fine just be honest about it because no -one is fooled by the “I’m going to look at all sides of this, weigh it up and then make up my mind because my integrity is the most important thing”

Don’t take my word for it, do one of your famous surveys. Do the people on here think I am biased to the
SWP
Labour
The Liberals
The Conservatives
BNP

I’m sure people will help.
Like I say I’m happy to have a bet.
I’ll let the others pick 60% of the categories as long as I get the first two choices.

[d1cxx]

I started life as a young man in the pub trade with Fuller, Smith, and Turner. One of the first bits of advise I was given by an old retiring publican, was to avoid at all cost 2 subjects. "Religion, and Politics" That advise served me well over the years. I'm beginning to understand why.