Cyprus talks negotiations. Out come. effects to non tcs

[jamboree]

I believe that there must be a referendum so both sides north and south have a say in the matter discussed. Already looking at the replies on this thread there is so many different views and we are on the same side. We was told from the beginning of the talks there would be a referendum. If any one out there knows different please let us know. Thank you.

[Lurucinali]

Lurucinali what would you consider to be a successful outcome to the Cyprus Solution?

A BBF agreement with slightly more favourable to GCs regarding territory and compensation compared to 2004 agreement.
In 2004 the compensation levels were set at 1974. They have to be upto date.
If GCs wish to live in the north, they should be allowed to do so with similar conditions as in 2004 agreement regarding percentages. I have no doubt that there will not be people rushing back not even to Girne. In Girne in 1974 there were 5000 GCs. How many of those would wish to return. How many of them are even in Cyprus. We have to show compassion towards people who are attached to the place they were born in and may wish to die there to be burried with their relatives. Ifpeople have invested then a formula wil be found to resolve the situation. Most people should be happy with the choices given and nobody will be thrown out into the street. Just wait and see what the formula will be.
A fair exchange is possible as the difference in property prices are in the TCs favour. Of course most TCs have already exchanged their properties so they will not benefit from this but they have had the use of GC properties for decades. TRNC will benfit from this as they have most fo the TC deeds for the properties in the south.
we cannot please everybody but we can please most people from both communities

[Lurucinali]

I believe that there must be a referendum so both sides north and south have a say in the matter discussed. Already looking at the replies on this thread there is so many different views and we are on the same side. We was told from the beginning of the talks there would be a referendum. If any one out there knows different please let us know. Thank you.

we can all believe what we like but the fact is it was not the two leaders who decided to have a referendum, it was the UN against the wishes of both Dengtash and Tasos Papadopoullos. And it will be the UN who will do it again.

[JBA]

Try to understand Lurucinali. The UN Annan Plan 0f 2004, and the referendum attached to it, are history. It was a UN plan tabled by Kofi Annan after long negotiations with both sides and, after having apparently reached agreement with both sides, it was put to the promised referendum. Unfortunately the EU then held out the promise of membership to Cyprus and Papadopoulos decided that the South alone, with EU membership, would be in a much stronger position to negotiate. So, having negotiated the terms therein, he then changed his mind and campaigned for a 'no' vote resulting in rejection by the GCs. But it's gone now - let the historians worry about it.

Instead let's look at the current situation. We have a new plan being formed by the leaders themselves - NOT by the UN. The UN has absolutely no authority anywhere in the world. It simply recommends (and is frequently ignored by many countries) and certainly has no authority to decide if there will be a referendum in Cyprus - that is purely an internal matter. Both the current leaders and their immediate predecessors have promised that the electorate can trust them to negotiate because in the end the electorate will have the opportunity to accept or reject the plan in a referendum. They could never change that and survive as politicians - it is doubtful even their parties could survive.

[frontalman]

The 2004 Annan plan (of which I have a copy somewhere) ceded an awful lot of land back to the Greek side, including Camlibel, which is just North of the Gecitkoy reservoir which houses the vital water supply for the TRNC. There is no way a more favorable plan will be offered, and I doubt that Guzelyurt is in the frame either, given that a new hospital is about to be built there. I think we all know where these talks are heading, most TCs would vote against the Annan plan if it was put to the vote again today, The new TC government will not hand back Morphou (Guzelyurt). Turkey still insists on Guarantor powers. Anastasiades has loaded his team with rejectionists, and has no intention of any kind of settlement the TCs would accept, so you might as well wind this thread up now. If the present talks don't end in failure I'll eat Paddy Ashdown's hat!

[waddo]

frontalman, just so we get it right before we send for the hat - lol. Are you saying that the talks will end in failure or that the result of the talks will end in nothing happening to change the current world status of the KKTC? Big difference there and one that may allow you to have mayonnaise with your next hat meal - lol.

[DenizIsmail]

I hope you are right Frontalman. I would like the Island to remain divided however TRNC to be recognized and to be able to trade!

[waz-24-7]

I agree that any form of a reformed Annan plan is hardly likely. The hand that the TRNC and indeed Turkey is now far stronger given for example the collapse of the ROC banks and economy in 2008. The ROC is in a weak position and their opportunity to capitalise whilst they held the reins of the EU has been lost because of the preoccupation with saving its banks and economy in 2009 - 20013.
However the ROC persists with its resolve to seek retribution and a reclaim upon the North. This is primarily led by the voting populous of the ROC. This resolve will slowly and surely dwindle with time as the TRNC remains under the wing of Turkey and its resolve to survive increases.
Certainly a reunited island in the form of two unified but separate states is the way forward. The major players who enjoy the prevailing peace will support this notion if only the property issues can be overcome.
I do not think for a moment that any sort of tax, penalty or other demand will be forced upon Kocan holders or TRNC residents. It would do very little to secure a solution. The solution must be political and the ROC must and will eventually be forced into accepting a loss. The case is clear. The ROC continues to lose influence, credibility and support after their mistake in declining the 2004 Annan plan solution. I do not think a referendum is on the cards given the current level of failure in negotiations. There is no longer any driving force on either side for a settlement. The TRNC enjoys Turkish and EU subsidies and the gravy train is firmly running down the Turkish railway tracks. Why would they want to get off? The ROC is now recovering from depression and strife and its populous are more concerned about their savings, prosperity and future. It is a minority in that country that continue to stimulate and promote hatred of the TRNC and Turks. Their aspirations are weak and struggle to have real effect on the TRNC in real terms.
So what will realistically happen. Nothing!! Peace, stability and life as we know it on a divided island continues to a degree that is now absolutely normal.

[Lurucinali]

To say i would like things to remain and get trnc recognised is like wishing pigs will fly. worst still not understanding that there is probaply less than 80,000 TCs left in Cyprus and the number is going down. There is only one way we can have peace and that is through BBF. The Annan plan is not dead, the talks that are going on are on the same as that Annan plan with some variations. What territory is given back is up for negotiation. Karpaz region was offered before and as Papadpoullos did not want the agreement to be acceptable, he refused it. It can be offered again. Some more villages can be offered back south of the Lefkosa Magusa highway too.

Wanting to split Cyprus to me is a fate worse than death. Not only is it bad for TCs but it is just as bad for GCs. Cyprus is not about to divide, if anything the talks are close and a formula will be found one way or another. It is such a shame decades were lost with leaders of both communities playing games to delay the agreement so it cannot be solved.

[jofra]

Refresh my memory - what is "BBF"....?
...And "split Cyprus"...? Ireland; yes, there has been strife, violence, "the Troubles", all of this for many, many years - but finally (hopefully) it has come to an end with two seperate ("split") parts - Northern Ireland and Eire - and an (in general) acceptance of this..... Why not Cyprus? And let all the vicious, spiteful, pointless past hatreds finally wither and fade away...?

[waz-24-7]

To say i would like things to remain and get trnc recognised is like wishing pigs will fly. worst still not understanding that there is probaply less than 80,000 TCs left in Cyprus and the number is going down. There is only one way we can have peace and that is through BBF. The Annan plan is not dead, the talks that are going on are on the same as that Annan plan with some variations. What territory is given back is up for negotiation. Karpaz region was offered before and as Papadpoullos did not want the agreement to be acceptable, he refused it. It can be offered again. Some more villages can be offered back south of the Lefkosa Magusa highway too.

Wanting to split Cyprus to me is a fate worse than death. Not only is it bad for TCs but it is just as bad for GCs. Cyprus is not about to divide, if anything the talks are close and a formula will be found one way or another. It is such a shame decades were lost with leaders of both communities playing games to delay the agreement so it cannot be solved.

There must be an end goal in any settlement. I believe that an end goal is just not there. It is far too easy for all parties to hold onto the status quo.
Unlike Gazza. There is no loss of life, no violence and peace prevails. Both sides live a life of normality and the Cyprus problem does not present problems that are big enough to cause real distress.
The cause is without real drive and focus and the continual political upheaval on both sides who vie for power on the basis of new negotiations simply complicate the process to the extent that talks stall, re start, fail and start again. The cycle continues and in my opinion no progress or intent to settle is therefore on the horizon.

[frontalman]

frontalman, just so we get it right before we send for the hat - lol. Are you saying that the talks will end in failure or that the result of the talks will end in nothing happening to change the current world status of the KKTC? Big difference there and one that may allow you to have mayonnaise with your next hat meal - lol.

Even the UN's representative, Espen Barth Eide has said he will be the last of his kind to step on Cypriot soil, read into that what you will. I believe that the rest of the world including the EU is fed up to the teeth with the so-called Cyprus problem. You can hold the mayonnaise (I'd prefer ketchup), when these talks break down and the leaders agree that they can't agree, a process will begin which in time will lead to the acceptance of the TRNC as a republic in its own right. It will not happen overnight, the South will fight tooth and nail at every concession given, but in time the North will be able to thrive. How much influence Turkey will continue to have remains to be seen, the North will still be dependent financially until all trade and other embargoes are lifted.

The Cyprus problem was solved in 1974.

[DenizIsmail]

Yasasin Frontalman!

[waddo]

Yep, I think you are dead right but I also think it will happen faster than you think - the GC will fight but if one country says "That is the TRNC there and we are going to trade with them", then that will be the end of the game for the GC and the barriers will tumble. What that would mean for the UN and the GC refugee payments is another matter for the GC to fight out on their own but they are too small to ever stop a stone rolling down hill!

[frontalman]

And don't forget - West Ham won the world cup in 1966!

[waddo]

I thought that was Coventry??? Oh sorry, Coventry have never won the world cup! Then again, the Titanic was the "Unsinkable" ship - lol.

[Lurucinali]

this is very similar to brexit situation. We voted to brexit without really understanding the full consequences of brexit. We fell for a romantic idea of taking control and it will all be fine.

1. To take any control we have to stop trading with the whole of the EU.
2. To think that the rest of EU will make a decision on Interest rates and we will be able make a decision totally opoasite to them for long is very naive.

so what control are taking exactly. none what so ever.

going back to dividing Cyprus into two and somehopw it will all be ok is in the same brackets. the idea that TRNC will be recognised is a pie in the sky to start with but to believe that even if TRNC is recognised somehow will be able to block Tuirkey from taking complete control and making TRNC 88th province could could only have come from a marsian.

what is worse is which way is Turkey heading. Judging by the politics of today in 10 years Turkey will be like Afghanistan. And TRNC will be like living in Afghanistan. If you wish to live in Afghanistan I will pay for your one wat ticket there. Cyprus is remaining in the EU and part of new RoC with full political equality with all the Turkish controls removed.

Given the choices I know which way I am voting and as a TRNC passport holder I will vote.

As to can we have an agreement, I believe there will be one, one way or another. The Americans want the resources and without peace they will not be able to extract. Hence the Americans today want peace and we shall have it. For once the Cypriots are on the same side as the Americans

[terry2366]

Luruchinall
Why do you talk about then we can have peace what have we had for the last decades then??

[jamboree]

Lurigicinali we all like to dream. And you can keep believing what you like. Did you not hear what mr akinci said yesterday at EREN koy, he said that turkey will be the guarantor power over here in the north. Do you think the south will agree to this. No way in a million years. Frontalman got it spot on. People should wake up there will never be a settlement as the south wants.

[waddo]

I think for the majority of posters on this forum it is all guess work and hopes anyway - the majority of posters will never have a say in what will happen in any referendum (quite right too as this is not the EU) so we will just have to take what happens and get on with life. But like all those who will be able to vote - we can still dream!!

[Lurucinali]

Luruchinall
Why do you talk about then we can have peace what have we had for the last decades then??

We have had a ceasfire. thats all it is. Is that peace?

We had 25,000 TCs leave Cyprus between 1963 and 1974 and we have had more than 50,000 people leave Cyprus since 1974? Is that really a good thing?

[Lurucinali]

Lurigicinali we all like to dream. And you can keep believing what you like. Did you not hear what mr akinci said yesterday at EREN koy, he said that turkey will be the guarantor power over here in the north. Do you think the south will agree to this. No way in a million years. Frontalman got it spot on. People should wake up there will never be a settlement as the south wants.

jamboree political leaders play to the crowd. do you understand what eren koy is and why akinci may say something there.

secondly perhaps anastasidaes has given the nod that he would accept such a compromise. after all Turkey will not be able to attack the south only defend the north if the situation arrises.

There is a lot more being discussed. Cyprus may well be disarmed totally by the end of this process. Who knows what will be in the agreement. I do know one thing, the more my fanatic friends begin to froth in the mouth about peace. nearer we must be.

[Lurucinali]

Just in case some people are thinking whats this fellow talking about, just a reminder of what some of these religous nuts are capable of here is a picture of Afghanistan before and after Taliban took power. Turkey is heading that way and a divided Cyprus, the TCs will be part of the whole shebang.

[jamboree]

So how will safety and security be guaranteed for the Turkish Cypriots. I don't see any real how we can be safe. Even now last week a tc lady and her daughter was attacked by a large group of gcs football holigans Etc is what the south like to call them. The incident has been reported and nothing happens. The culprits will never be brought to court and they are seen as heroes attacking tcs in there cars so many times this has happened and not one has any one been brought before the courts. The south police do not want to even take statements when there is an attack against a tc happens. No one person has been prosicuted. So with all the love the south have for us. You believe there can be an agreement and the Turkish Cypriots will be safe. Mr akinci so demand that these attackers be brought to face the law and until then get his ass off that table of negotiation and not return until something positive happens. Attacks on Turkish Cypriots are getting more regular and frequent show willing mr akinci and demand this from them.

[DenizIsmail]

Totally agree with jamboree. Erol I would like to hear your views?