Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

How about this then



Turkish Republic of Cyprus News – well, they finally went and done it; they changed the name from the Turkish Republic of North Cyprus to the Turkish Republic of Cyprus. The decision was taken by the Cabinet of Ministers on May 23. This means that “the Cypriot Turk” will be written in the column “origin” of citizens’ identity cards.

No explanation has been given as to why this expensive change was needed at a time when the government is finding it difficult to pay wages; over 70 days late in some instance

A senior official, " The Greek Cypriots July 1 along with being the Presidency of the EU, Turkey-EU relations, and it refers to be cut," After this process in Cyprus is expected to continue in the negotiations.

So, plan B will be commissioned after that date.



Source ► http://goo.gl/YV8Ux

As you can guess, this has been translated from Turkish. The original article can be found here :
http://www.habermonitor.com/haber/detay ... rnc/177521

With regards to the second decision to write "Kıbrıslı Türk" (literal translation : Cypriot Turk) for nationality on passports and ID cards, there would appear to be a shift from TCs being more Cypriot to more Turkish.

However, Turkish Cypriots (and I have just checked with some here in the office) have always translated "Kıbrıslı Türk" as Turkish Cypriot, eventhough the adjective and noun have changed places. We would think of a Turkish Cypriot as first and foremost a Cypriot, but with Turkish ancestry ... and that is still how TCs, at least for the time being, see themselves.

"The only real Cypriot is the Cypriot donkey"

Paul.

Where you coming from Paul....your comment is totally beyond me. ????

iancrumpy so what are you saying it is not going to be called Turkish Republic Of Cyprus ??

as an adopted cypriot i find dodgers remark offensive.

"iancrumpy ... is it not going to be called Turkish Republic Of Cyprus ??"

RCofT, it will indeed be called the "Turkish Republic Of Cyprus". I was commenting on the second decision, whereby "Kıbrıslı Türk" (and not "KKTC") will be written for nationality in passports here.

Well you're correct for once RCT man.

Plan B it is....

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... RAC8QiIbOQ

I believe it was a quote from Rauf Denktas.Not meant too offend anyone.

Paul.

dodger wrote:http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... RAC8QiIbOQ

I believe it was a quote from Rauf Denktas.Not meant too offend anyone.

Paul.

Indeed it is a quote attributed to Rauf Denktash, and in fact it was designed to 'offend' Greek Cypriots. I have seen it translated before as the only indigenous (true) Cypriots on the Island today are the donkeys, which is kind of ironic as actually even donkeys are not indigenous to Cyprus but are in fact an introduced species. Anyway the point Denktash was making is that Turkish Cypriots may not be 'indigenous' to Cyprus (true Cypriots) but then neither are Greek Cypriots either. They are both 'introduced' peoples / cultures to Cyprus - something many Greek Cypriots would dispute in fact.

http://www.hri.org/news/cyprus/tcpr/201 ... pr.html#05

The quote is actually mentioned here.

Paul.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... 5IUTTJbfIw

More on the name change.

Paul.

Why Greek or Turkish, why not just Cypriot since that's what they are, or is this too simplistic......

Apart from the semanics, what effect will it have on the ground?

Paul, talk about cliff-hangers, thanks for completing your statement, lol.

No problem Soner.

If only it were that simple Tutor for u.

Paul.

Tutor4u, the only time I hear someone say they are Cypriot is when 2 Cypriots strike conversation and don't know at first which is Greek and which one is Turkish. Been in that situation many a time in London.

Will the Nationalist movement view this as a directive from mainland Turkey? Droping the Northern for Turkish Republic of Cyprus. Having an extremely active Nationalist neighbour, we are friends and he knows I find his logic an alien concept.

Will be interesting the local feedback.

Mel, my TC in-laws just see it as an unnecessary, but rather costly name change ... made by a few TCs with their heads in the clouds. However you clearly feel there is more to it than that. Can you elaborate?

Iancrumpy -

Will talk to my neighbours for feedback. I dont know if it still exists , there used to be a movement known as "Cyprus is Ours" and I attended a demonstration at Ledra Palace about 8 yrs ago. Membership was available only to TCs. They wanted Turkey out and Cyprus for the Cypriots. They supported the Annan Plan. This was a very well organised movement . Printed T shirts , banners, motorcade etc.
there was a film shown outside Ledra palace and a letter handed in to the UN. The only people there that I knew personally were all Doctors and businessmen, seemed to be a good cross section of 200-300 people.

Mel, some TCs, that I spoke with this morning, felt, on the contrary, the name-change was in some way related to Ankara's intentions of eventually making northern Cyprus the 82nd "il" of Turkey. Either way though, I can't see how dropping the "Northern" improves matters for either camp

According to "Cyprus Today" the change in name was to comly with proposed e-passports in line with standards of the International Civil Aviation Organisation. So there could be no more sinister significance than a wish to avoid friction with bureaucratic EU regulations . If other EU Regs are anything to go by, imho there is probably no logic to it and it could be something as simple as "TRNC" having too many letters . I doubt that will be accepted "onthe other side" however.

CT also says "Turkish Cypriot" (as opposed to Cypriot Turk quoted above) will be used in passports. Does anyone know what the term was in Turkish - the noun adjective balance is the same in both languages, I believe.

Incidentally, I think there was an incident a few years ago when a bi-communal group tried to bring a donkey across the border to demonstrate that neither Greeks nor Turks were indiginous to Cyprus - but nor , as Erol says are donkeys! Anyway the plan fell foul of some imprortation of livestock rule.

There was no such place as "Greece" or term "Greek" when people of Hellenic racial origin - among many , many others - first settled in Cyprus, just a collection of City states usually at war with each other.
Mind you neither was there "Turkey" as we know it, nor Turks ,when Cyprus came under Ottoman rule , but the Ottoman empire was a cohesive entity and the concept of "Turkishness" was coming into being

"CT also says "Turkish Cypriot" (as opposed to Cypriot Turk quoted above) will be used in passports. Does anyone know what the term was in Turkish"

TC bilingual speakers would translate Turkish Cypriot to "Kıbrıslı Türk" ... they don't say "Türk Kıbrıslı", eventhough grammatically it is possible, because both words are both a noun and an adjective. However it would seem that, if given the choice, native speakers of Turkish would prefer to use "Türk" as a noun rather than an adjective.

When any TC is asked as to why they say "Turkish Cypriot" or "Kıbrıslı Türk" they all say, without hesitation, "I am first and foremost a Cypriot ... with Turkish ancestry."

Iancrumpy. Could not agree more. We foreigners who do not have citizenship can only observe events as they unfold. As far as I know the government has not been accepting citizenship applications since 2007(mine at least) .

Ian: Exactly most Turkish Cypriot I know insist they are Cypriots first and then Turks (as an ethnic identity). Therefore in English this would be reflected by the noun Cypriot predominating and the adjective Turkish describing or defining the noun.

Maybe the Turkish "li" suffix (with, having the property of, containing , eg. "şekerli = with sugar) does not have quite the same implications as the English adjective and the emphasis is not so strong. Google translate just ignores the suffix and give "Türk Kıbrıs" for Turkish Cypriot and "Kıbrıs Türk" for "Cypriot Turk". Not that Google is necessarily a good guide, but its simpler!

Surely "Cypriot Turk" would more properly describe ex citizens of the Republic of Turkey who emigrated to Cyprus post '74 and acquired TRNC (oops, sorry, CTR) nationality.

RamblingRose,
It would seem that our TC friends are not fully aware of why they say "Kıbrıslı Türk" - the TC Head of English at my school, for example, knows only too well that the adjective merely describes the noun and also insists TCs are first and foremost Cypriot, but then says it has to be "Kıbrıslı Türk"
My TC wife has suggested that the Turks who settled here ın the 16th and 17th century were called "Kıbrıslı Türkler" and the name has stuck ever since.

mmm Very interesting Ian. I would be the last to lay claim to being an expert on Turkish grammar and I am not at all sure that English noun-adjective rules apply the same way with Turkish suffixes.

Your wife may well be right. I have been (re) reading John Humphry's "Lost for Words" and (while deploring poor standards of English syntax) he does make the case for any language to develop and evolve . Maybe this is a case where Turkish evolved in the 16th Century but hasn't caught up!!!

I wonder if Greek Cypriots have the same confusion - I believe that Turks tend to refer to Greek Cypriots as "Rum" rather "Yunanlı"- perhaps reflecting my contention that Greeks have less pure descent from the "mother race". Anyone know what it is in Greek?

Re : "Greeks have less pure descent from the 'mother race'." Probably true RamblingRose, but my feeling is that on the whole GCs are far more willing to call themselves Greek (than TCs would be to call themselves Turkish).

One more thing RamblingRose - As one expect "Kıbrıslı Türkler" is often translated as "Cypriot Turks" ... and this upsets the Greek Cypriots ... but then again many things upset the GCs