Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Source: http://www.haber7.com/partiler/haber/95 ... -yapilacak

This follows on from a thread I started a few months ago (original posting can still be seen under the dotted line below) telling of a giant mosque being built on the Asian side overlooking the first bridge.
And now, well yesterday to be precise, Erdoğan is reported to have said there will be a mosque in Taksim Square.
To get an idea of the feelings on this, I advise you to read http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/mosque ... sCatID=341
I agree with JRC's comments (below the article)
"How long would it be before there is a demand for bars and clubs in the area to stop their music during prayer times and possibly even stop serving alcohol? Once built it will be used as an excuse to shut down or curb one of Istanbul's most lively areas."

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According to http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/id/25353628/ yesterday Erdoğan announced the building of a "dev cami" (giant mosque) at the top of Çamlıca,
the hill on the Asian side about a mile from the first Bosphorus Bridge, alongside the television mast. He also announced the go-ahead for 4 or 5 more mosques in the Istanbul area, but it was the Çamlıca one he considered the most important, for it will be seen from all areas of Istanbul.

Quoting myself from this thread
http://www.kibkom.com/forum/en/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1140
"Municipalities no longer allowing bars to have their tables outside, increasingly-higher percentage of tax on alcohol, (single-sex summer camps) and now this - Some Turkish friends of mine would says these are all signs of the AKP's bigger plan ..."

Any thoughts?

i lived in turkey for 5 yrs and the AK party with erdogan have always had these ideas, when he was mayor of istanbul he closed down lots of bars and they have been sneaking little things through the law books for years

Please read the edited message in post 1.

Without wanting to be flippant about it, where on earth would they build it in Taksim square, it's actually nothing like as big as people imagine it to be. Short of knocking down a couple of hotels, at least 6 restaurants and a monument or so, surely there just wouldn't be room? Also not wanting to be flippant again, I haven't seen them packing out the mosques to the rafters with the ones they have. But then the mosques here are virtually empty and yet still they are supposed to be building (is it 10) - can't remember.

sophie wrote:Without wanting to be flippant about it, where on earth would they build it in Taksim square.

Probably in that small little-used park between MacDonalds and the Atatürk Kültür Merkezi, alongside the bus station.

sophie wrote: Also not wanting to be flippant again, I haven't seen them packing out the mosques to the rafters with the ones they have.

Blue Dotterel, in a comment below the Daily News article, made the same point Sophie :
"There are a number of small Mosques within a 2 to 7 minute walk of Taksim: Kazanc Ali Aga Cami (just down the hill by the Marmara Hotel, 2''), Selime Hatun Cami (by the German Consulate, 4-5''), Huseyin Aga Cami (on Istiklal, 7-10''), I have never noticed any of them to be overfilled at prayer times"


It would seem to me that Erdoğan just wants to stamp his party's Islamic mark in an area often associated with what AKP supporters consider to be practices of the "decadent west". Another reason is to make a statement to those who demonstrate in Taksim Square (eg. on May Day) of the growing Islamic presence in Turkey.

I can see where you are coming from ian (I think),
but er... didn't the a.k. get elected in? or was the vote somehow unfair?
are we saying that because "we" don't care for an islamic type of regime?
or is it instead that the turkish people made some kind of terrible mistake?

recent experience with the arab spring as it used to be called, suggests
that many of these countries are very badly split between secularists and
islamisists, with neither group particularly co-operative with the other

yes, because of the background of many expats it would difficult for most
to feel much enthusiasm about any non-cypriot or non-christian influence
here, and this is sometimes expressed as worries over our traditional cyprus
staging a disappearing act

unlike many contributors I can offer no easy solutions, only suggest some
relevant questions on the issues: whatever they really are!

Power has gone to Erdoğan's head! His initial economic policies and stand against the control freaks of EU earned a lot of public respect and support last decade. However, as a result he seems to have become a bit of a megalomaniac and the secret agenda of an islamic rule and their hate for the founder of Turkey Kemal Ataturk has been surfacing more and more over the past 2 years - a subject that will definitely cost votes during next election.

He has even tried to ban some national day ceremonies as well as the use of the Turkish flag during such events - many demonstrated strongly against this during the, 29th of October Republic day. He is even interfering in the education system in Cyprus, where his party is actively forcing the current government (successfully) establishing religious schools in preference to normal schools - something almost all high school TC teachers have been demonstrating actively against, over the past one year.

I think Erdoğan has gone too far, and AKP has come to the end of its popularity. Top that up with the increased terrorist activities in Eastern Turkey due to his earlier "softly, softly" approach to please EU (fast turning into a "Vietnam" of Turkey) - ıt looks very much like they will not be winning the next elections so easily.

The only other problem is of course the presence of an idiot by the name of Kılıçdaroğlu at the head of the main opposition party CHP! A sensible opposition leader would win very easily during the next election.

bigOz,

there are many very many assertions in your posting,
laced with a large dollop of wishful thinking

as regards how the turkish people will vote next time:
without seeing any opinion polls on this, you can only assume
if the last election was really free and fair they could in theory
ask for "the same again" (perhaps an inappropriate metaphor!)

especially if the islamisisation of modern turkey is going ahead
as fast as many contributors fear

the experts concluded that the earlier governments were quite
corrupt and ineffectual, the a.k. is riding an economic wave at
present but should they suffer a wipeout the secularists could
rally, since they have a large and experienced constituency

not sure if the a.k. "hates" attaturk, but both his memory and
teachings could well be a major inconvenience

all the evidence suggests that the real european leadership
(the franco-german bloc, not assorted nameless bureaucrats),
will not accept turkey for membership under any imaginable
circumstances ...I have explained why, many times previously

but we can make an educated guess that the desperate assad
regime is encouraging kurdish separatist attacks in order to get
turkey off their backs, syrian intelligence has a long history of
all sorts of monkey business

"andre514" - I talk facts and not "assertions"! If you can read & understand Turkish, I shall supply you with the URLs of video recordings of Erdoğan's past and present public speeches where he persistently makes statements demeaning Ataturk's character, (in one he actually calls him a liar)

During Ataturk's rule actions were taken to distance the republic from the corrupt religious influence. These included a modern legal system that gave up the religious judges "Kadı"s applying an earlier version of the "Şeria Law" Ottoman-style. Since then, it is no secret that the more religious sections and their leaders hated Atatürk. This diminished as democratic rule took its course, but the relations with other "Sheria law" abiding muslim countries went very sour! As a result, they never supported Turkey in any international political arena including the UN. Even during the events of 1963-64 when Greek Orthodox malicia were carrying out atrocities against Turkish Cypriot muslims. They strongly supported the Greek Cypriot Government to this day, both financially and economically.

As for joining the EU, Turkish people would not care less! Many public opinion polls over the past few years in Turkey have shown that most do not wish to join an ecenomically collapsing EU. But Erdoğan is persistent as ever of gaining acceptance(!) to what benefit? Could this be because he has some secet holy agenda dictated by his masters?

AKP is backed heavily by Saudi Arabia, who believe a successful secular democratic Muslim country such as Turkey would set a bad example and pose a serious threat to their own rule. In this day and age, money is the biggest shareholder of any political party's success during an election.

AKP is building huge mosques all over Istanbul, including those in the middle of the famous Taksim Square and a forested high spot overlooking Istanbul. There are 3 mosques within 3-4 minutes walk of Taksim square - all of which are famed to be 3/4 empty during prayer times - so why does he need to build another one in the middle of a famous tourist attraction spot? Its like building a huge church in the middle of Trafalgar Square! There is hardly anyone living around the hill where the biggest mosque is now planned - who will fill up a 1000 capacity mosque during prayer times? Can you see that these constructions are nothing more than pleasing his masters who are supplying the money and their support?

ADDENDUM;
Political corruption also happens in Europe and in America. AKP does not need small time corruption because they are wealthy enough due to corruption at a far bigger scale (huge funds from Arabs). By the way, if one looks into major shares in businesses acquired by Erdoğans wife during his rule, they include half a dozen private hospitals as well as few other investments!

Your "assertion" that Syria might be helping the Kurdish terrorists is wrong. They "were" doing so together with Greece until APO was caught in Africa and brought back to Turkey. Turkey threatened both countries with war unless they stop all such help - it stopped. Relations with Syria were at an all time high prior to the recent political unrest! It is ironic that Turkey is supporting the revolutionaries in Syria, most of whom are Kurds talking about another independent state! Recent arrests of senior Kurdish terrorists have provided evidence that Iran is providing weapons and ammo as well as training to PKK. So why does Turkey bomb Northern Iraq at every opportunity but cannot warn Iran against such help to terrorist, when backed by USA and Europe? One can only assume that Erdoğan has no intentions of offending his Muslim financers who have good relations with the Mollas of Iran

thanks for your very informative reply BigOz

you may well be right about saudi funds but how would anyone know for sure?

still do not quite understand though how the akp got elected if they are so bad,
although they are said to represent a powerful lobby of provincial businessman,
and you yourself point out the inadequacy of the opposition leadership

admittedly the situation for part or full time british residents is far less pressing,
apart from the alcohol issue it probably doesn't make very much difference to them

what I think I meant to say about ataturk, is his memory would represent a quite
dangerous alternative way of thinking, for the akp that is, call it hatred if you will

as regards cyprus, whoever is in power in ankara will still keep north cyprus as a
sort of protectorate, surely?

and about the eu,
the turks are perhaps far too proud to admit the reality of the situation:
but I am not saying that with any smugness, britain may well be moving towards an
eventual exit and then have to grovel to be allowed to keep its free trade status