Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Anybody else having trouble watching FilmOn TV via Extend and the Arriva-supplied set top android box? Arriva have just inferred it's normal for it to buffer/freeze in the evening up to 30 times in a half-hour..............

Do they at least offer 100% refund on the unused portion of your subscription if you are not satisfied of the service so you can look for better alternatives?

I am not sure if you have an issue with your Internet or the box, but Multimax customers definitely do not get that many breakups. http://www.mmcyp.com

Kemal

Have you been in touch with Arriva, I find their support 1st class?

I get same watching it via IPAD and I'm with MUltiMax, BBCIPlayer freezes and buffers a lot too drives me mad......I would like to find a reliable source of watching tv, we use to download everything and watch it from a dongle maybe that's the way I should go again.....

Can someone tel me how to attach a VPN to a vestel smart TV.

Needs to be in layman's terms.

@silverfox1, there is no way to explain what you are asking in laymans terms. There are 3 relatively easy methods

1. if you have a computer and 2 ethernet interfaces, you can connect internet in one port, vestel to the second. Then you connect the vpn to the computer and share that connection to the second port
2. if your router supports it, you can configure vpn within it, and all devices connected to the router will be vpn'ned
3. you can purchase a wired router that supports the function, they usually has multiple ports where you can configure the vpn and share it to other ports, this is the most practical method.

There is also a very small chance your vestel tv may support vpn feature on its own, for that you need to contact them and ask.

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@Whatarotty, the only 100% reliable way to watch TV is to move back to UK and use satellite or cable reception. Other than that, the problems you explain are not normal occurrence with Multimax, you should contact support. Also, if downloading and watching with dongle works for you, why dont you do the same with Multimax, but cheaper.

Magalan, we have the same system and at first buffered a lot ! After much hard work by Arriva and Extend several problems arose which have been sorted ! Firstly, check your download speed either by independent speed check or on Extends own website. We have 4Mg which is just enough to stream TV. At peak times it is not unreasonable to expect a 25% reduction in speed due to increased traffic making streaming a borderline for freezing or buffering. There may be restrictions on streaming at the server end and even Filmon experience some server traffic problems at peak times. If your speed is constantly lower than 4Mg then it is best to speak to Extend to ask them to change your base station segment as certain stations are over crowded especially in the evenings and weekends ! Which area are you and do you know your base station. Regards Barry

kbasat wrote:@silverfox1, there is no way to explain what you are asking in laymans terms. There are 3 relatively easy methods

1. if you have a computer and 2 ethernet interfaces, you can connect internet in one port, vestel to the second. Then you connect the vpn to the computer and share that connection to the second port
2. if your router supports it, you can configure vpn within it, and all devices connected to the router will be vpn'ned
3. you can purchase a wired router that supports the function, they usually has multiple ports where you can configure the vpn and share it to other ports, this is the most practical method.

Just to add a 4th option to your list above - provided the TV allows you to manually set DNS settings , then you can use a third party 'dns' based service like smartstream from http://www.streamvia.com (there are several alternative providers of such services, like HMA and others). This will work for specific services only but streamvia.com cover the main UK based services, like bbc, itv, c4, c5 , Netflix, blinkbox. Just another alternative and actually one of the easier (ish) to set up.

Agree with Barry and Laptatony, when we have had problems Arriva have acted swiftly with Extend to do their best to sort them. kbsat, there is no subscription, the android box is an outright purchase.

Kemal I was not indicating MM was at fault just pointing out another provider MAY not be the answer? I have contacted support but they say all ok........

Whatarotty ! I have found out in my investigations that internet providers detect whether a computer or android machine is being used and they have filters to limit the amount of streaming an android can do ! It all seems unfair but have had both systems running and the android box buffers and the laptop is fine, so there is some substance in that theory !!! regards Barry

barrysnakes wrote:Whatarotty ! I have found out in my investigations that internet providers detect whether a computer or android machine is being used and they have filters to limit the amount of streaming an android can do ! It all seems unfair but have had both systems running and the android box buffers and the laptop is fine, so there is some substance in that theory !!! regards Barry

At the risk of sounding rude, your assumption is just not correct. No ISP would limit access based on the operating system of a device (android vs windows). The reason why you get different results when streaming via the android box and via the laptop are almost certainly down to each device needing a different form of encoding. Historically the dominant video encoding scheme for online video was adobe flash encoding. However adobe flash is no longer supported by android devices (but still is supported on windows platforms). So the chances are the laptop is taking an adobe flash encoded stream from filmon and the android device is taking a different encoded stream (of the same content). These different types of encoding will typically come from different filmon servers and it would seem that during your tests the filmon servers delivering the streams suitable for android devices was just not performing as well as those delivering the streams for windows devices.

There really is no logical reason why any ISP would seek to limit the speed of their connections for one type of device and not others.

Any off island system is effected by off island feeds. With Iplayer streaming the feed to the UK is unreliable, hell its unreliable i the UK! If you want to watch bbc use the desktop facility and download. If you are in a hurry to watch it you can download things really quickly with the high speeds from multimax which for me most of the time are between 10 and 20mps.

I get on pretty much fine with NTV to be honest, has a problem now and then but everything has but most of the time it is just normal TV.

barrysnakes wrote:Whatarotty ! I have found out in my investigations that internet providers detect whether a computer or android machine is being used and they have filters to limit the amount of streaming an android can do ! It all seems unfair but have had both systems running and the android box buffers and the laptop is fine, so there is some substance in that theory !!! regards Barry

your investigations or your deductions from your investigations are wrong. in order to do what you say, any provider would need to deeply inspect all packets coming from all customers at all times in order to just determine the content and make a decision. This would require hundreds of dollars worth of investment for small providers and possibly million dollar + in case of Multimax and that I think would defeat all purpose.

Kbasat we will have to politely disagree then ! regards Barry

Barry may I politely I suggest you stick to playing the guitar as Kemal does know what he is talking about with regard to this subjects and he does not give advice on Riffs!!

kbasat wrote: ....and that I think would defeat all purpose.

To be perfectly honest I am still trying to fathom what the possible purpose could be for an ISP to want to throttle video traffic from a given source when viewed on one type of device but NOT do so when the same content is viewed from the same provider but on a different device ? I can conceive of why an ISP might want to reduce ALL such traffic, which technically in my understanding would be considerably easier than seeking to do so when viewed by a device running android operating system whilst leaving said content unhindered when viewed on a device running windows operating system.

There is copious easily found documentary evidence of ISP around the world limiting traffic based on volumes. Same for limiting traffic based on type of traffic (torrents, video, VoiP etc). Same for limiting traffic from specific sources (Netflix, Filmon etc). But no where I am aware of is there any evidence anywhere in the world of an ISP seeking to limit traffic from a specific source but ONLY when viewed on a device running one operating system whilst leaving the same content from the same source unhindered when viewing it on a devices using a different operating system. It just makes no sense.

I am reminded of a book I read recently 'Voodoo Histories - The role of conspiracy theory in shaping modern history' where the author seeks to understand how and why when faced with a possibility like 'men really did land on the moon' so many seem to prefer to believe the infinitely less likely scenario that 'thousands of people were enlisted to fabricate a deception on such a vast scale and all of them have taken this secret to their graves or still hold it.

The most likely and simple explanation Barrysnakes as to why you see different performance when watching filmon on an android device to on a windows laptop is the one I have given. Yet seemingly you prefer your 'conspiracy theory' explanation, despite there being no logic to it or hard evidence for it ? Why is that I wonder ? Is it just the results of your testing alone or is the belief being helped along with some 'whispering in your ear' ?

As I understand it Erol that it is an issue with bandwidth which contributes to the cost of the service ! Thats not me thats the chief engineer at my provider !
This system would explain as to why when my android boxes buffered I was able to watch the same program without freezing or buffering on my laptop but as silverfox stated I am a musician (debatable) and not a internet boff just trying to help Magalan in the first instance who has a similar system to ours which is now working perfectly ! off to play now ! regards Barry

Thanks for all the replies - some useful, some not connected with my enquiry, but ho hum!

The problem now seems to be sorted with help directly from the Extend helpdesk - we cannot thank them enough!

barrysnakes wrote:As I understand it Erol that it is an issue with bandwidth which contributes to the cost of the service ! Thats not me thats the chief engineer at my provider !

I understand that but in terms on analogy it would be like setting up speed cameras on a road that sought to reduce people speeding but that only worked on cars powered by diesel but did not work on those running on petrol. Much harder to do than cameras that worked on both types and cars and to what end ? That is the bit that makes no sense to me. Slowing down all traffic from filmon, that makes some kind of sense. Slowing down some but not others, based on if its ending up on an android box or a windows machine, that does not.

I think the logic behind it is that people constantly streaming tv via an android box use more of the providers bandwidth than those who are surfing the net on a computer ! Therefore they attempt to restrict its use as a tv system which, according to my provider, it isnt ! They say TV should either be by satellite or terrestrial as it is much more efficient ! Also I presume less problematic for the provider ! I know which I would prefer if it were available but we are grateful for small mercies "as they say" regards barry

barrysnakes wrote:I think the logic behind it is that people constantly streaming tv via an android box use more of the providers bandwidth than those who are surfing the net on a computer !

Yes but those that are constantly streaming TV from filmon via an android box use the SAME amount of bandwidth as those streaming it via a laptop, and restricting usage of both when streaming TV from a specific site is vastly easier than restricting for one and not the other. An ISP can easily 'see' where traffic is coming from and thus potentially place restrictions on traffic from such sources. An ISP can not easily see if the traffic from that source has been requested from an android device or a laptop, so to restrict it based on if it has been requested by an android device and not if requested by a laptop is very difficult and would involve considerable cost and almost certainly more cost than the bandwidth they are seeking to save on in the first place. Sorry to keep going on but it just does not make sense at all.

Erol I agree this is going on a bit but I can only quote what I have been told as I am just a dumb musician ! Perhaps there may be another reason as to why my android boxes buffer when my laptop doesnt ! A more efficient processor in the laptop ! Perhaps Extend do have the ability to detect different devises streaming TV or the way in which their internet is being used but I suppose none of us will really know but the most important thing is that the person who originally posted with regards their problem is now sorted which is the whole useful reason of forums without idiots interfering with sarcastic childish immature remarks. Kind regards Barry

barrysnakes wrote: Perhaps there may be another reason as to why my android boxes buffer when my laptop doesnt

The most likely reason is the one I gave in post 12. Laptops use a 'adobe flash' encoded feed and android use a different kind of encoding. The machine that is sending the adobe flash feed was working better than the one that sends the android feed. Thus laptop works better than android box.

barrysnakes wrote:Erol I agree this is going on a bit but I can only quote what I have been told as I am just a dumb musician ! Perhaps there may be another reason as to why my android boxes buffer when my laptop doesnt ! ... Kind regards Barry

@Barry
I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Computer Science from Pennstate University which was in top 15 in USA in my field at the time I finished. I have been a computer wiz since I was 13. I have done extensive work in Wireless systems, Networking as well as other information technologies related subjects for the past 11 years in Cyprus.

Erol has been an Internet activist since the day there was no proper internet back in the UK. He has hands on experience in this subject that spans decades and he is one of the most, if not the most knowledgeable person you would meet in North Cyprus.

The reason why this has dragged on for so long is because (not trying to be rude) you are refusing to listen to expert opinion.

If someone has told you any provider in this country is doing anything to make android boxes buffer more, that person either does not know what he is talking about or he has lied to you. These is a very straightforward logic for us what what you are saying cannot be true, I am trying once more to explain some of the main points here:
1. More than 90% of people who does streaming do NOT use android boxes. Thus, specifically targetting android boxes does not make sense.
2. No matter if you can stream cleanly, or your video buffers 50 times in a minute, the actual data your box downloads for the video does not differ by much. If somehow android box usage were much much higher than the no1 point above (which it definitely is not) than not much difference in trafic would be achieved by just slowing android boxes slightly so they still work but only buffer more. Unless they are blocked completely, it makes very little difference.
3. It is much easier to just block few streaming servers instead of trying to play games with 1000s of clients and their different brand devices...
4. Even if it would be possible, it would be absurdly expensive to just slow down android boxes. Spending hundreds of thousands of dollars just to slow down some boxes that are in the minority and not doing it fully so they still consume all the bandwidth just does not make sense.

Now, my one line expert opinion is:
If you have an internet connection, and the same stream works on your laptop but not on android box, the fault lies with the android box, and there are many reasons why this can be the case, but this is something your vendor needs to work on instead coming up with illogical excuses.

Thanks.

Kbasat ! How very boastful of you and big deal ! I also have a degree in Electronic engineering but never tell anyone ! I think it best for us to call an end to this thread and you had better concentrate on your companies problems in future either internet or financial Regards barry

barrysnakes wrote:Kbasat ! How very boastful of you and big deal ! I also have a degree in Electronic engineering but never tell anyone !

So sad because in this case, I would assume you would respect expert opinion rather than try to present it as something to be ashamed of. And all the things I explained 'on-subject' you somehow ignore all and pull this out of context - for what purpose? There is nothing wrong with admitting that you have been mislead/misinformed/lied/got wrong impression/got wrong conclusion/simply wrong or all of the above...

barrysnakes wrote: I think it best for us to call an end to this thread and you had better concentrate on your companies problems in future either internet or financial Regards barry

I would obviously concentrate more on my company's internet or financial problems, if any such problems existed. The key success of Multimax comes in part from the fact that it does not rely on the efforts of one man but many young, talented and experienced people who all work in harmony towards a single goal. You obviously do not have any idea about what we do and how we do things if you believe Multimax would be in any kind of trouble when I spend 10 mins here responding to a post.

As somebody else earlier suggested, and as its obvious that you are not in any way interested in understanding the obvious, I suggest you stick to what you do best and stop making claims about things that you do not understand and stop making suggestions about things that is not in your area of expertise. There is no nicer way of putting it I apologize...

K.

barrysnakes wrote:.... I think it best for us to call an end to this thread and you had better concentrate on your companies problems in future either internet or financial Regards barry

Really Barrysnakes ? You want to call and end to this discussion that you started with an ending like that ?

Well I am not quite ready to call and end I am afraid, given your statement above.

Just to be absolutely clear - you are stating here that you were explicitly told by the 'chief engineer' at Extend that they actively throttle traffic from filmon at peak hours when it is going to an android box but not when going to any other sort of device ? If that is correct, then it would seem like the logical conclusion would be for people wanting to use an android box to watch filmon on, they would be best to avoid Extend internet and use a provider that does not discriminate against android boxes in such a way ? Would that not be a fair statement and germane to the general topic at discussion here ? Providers like say Multimax that I know 100% do not operate any such sort of discrimination against android devices or say Nethouse who I would happily bet large sums also do not discriminate against android boxes in this way. Would you agree that is fair comment if your statements here are correct ?

Erol and Kbasat alike ! This forum is for everyone to state their opinions not just you 2 to boast about your internet service ! I respect the owners of Extend as they do not condone the use of forums for their advertising and self gratifications as yourselves ! I have not ever said that Extend restrict Filmon but have the facility to recognise which form of usage is taking place ! either android box or laptop ! Neither of you have answered my question with regards to how my android boxes (which you once endorced and sold at extremely inflated prices ) buffer when my Laptop doesnt ? At the time of considering which system would be the best for our requirements I visited your offices in Karakum to have a demonstration of your android box and no one was able to show me therefore I discounted your system. No one called me despite requests ! Despite your massive qualifications I have seen nothing but very aggressive quotes (evident by this thread) by you on these forums at people who have problems with your systems almost to abusive levels ! As I stated before that this thread was purely to help Magalan sort out his/her TV problems which due to the expertise of the Extend team has now been sorted ! please do not "gang up on me" or even attempt forum bullying as this will not help your companies reputation at all which I am surprised your super dooper fantastic qualifications did not teach either of you !!
For your information I have NO music qualifications what so ever ! yet aint done too bad ! Kind regards Barry

barrysnakes wrote: I have not ever said that Extend restrict Filmon ...

From earlier in the thread you said

barrysnakes wrote:After much hard work by Arriva and Extend

barrysnakes wrote: As I understand it Erol that it is an issue with bandwidth which contributes to the cost of the service ! Thats not me thats the chief engineer at my provider !

So again to be clear you are now saying that the Chief Engineer at Extend told you this was possible to distinguish the types of device and throttle one but not the other but that they themselves do not throttle flimon streams going to android device ? Yet you stated as 'evidence' for this being what ISP do that when YOU watched via android you got buffering but via laptop you did not ? Very confusing ! If your provider, that you stated to be Extend, does not throttle filmon when viewed via an android box, how can you experiencing break up via an android box and not laptop be evidence that ISP do this ?

barrysnakes wrote: Neither of you have answered my question with regards to how my android boxes (which you once endorced and sold at extremely inflated prices ) buffer when my Laptop doesnt ?

Actually we both have. It is explained by the android box is faulty, or the android box uses a different encoding from filmon than a laptop and that therefore you are not comparing like to like and thus your assumptions are incorrect. As to why the above is proof ISP do this, yet you claim Extend does not, once again it makes no sense.

For info and in the interest of accuracy, the NTV set top box , that MM used to sell as agents for NTV and now no longer do so, is not an android device. It actually runs Linux, not android, nor does it take its content from filmon.

barrysnakes wrote: Despite your massive qualifications I have seen nothing but very aggressive quotes (evident by this thread) by you on these forums at people who have problems with your systems almost to abusive levels !

I have been aggressive / abusive (or almost abusive if you prefer) to Multimax customers on this forum who have reported having problems ? Really ?

barrysnakes wrote:As I stated before that this thread was purely to help Magalan sort out his/her TV problems

Yet you suggested to Whatarotty, a stated MM customer, that the problems he was experiencing may be explained by the fact that "I have found out in my investigations that internet providers detect whether a computer or android machine is being used and they have filters to limit the amount of streaming an android can do ! " So you were not just trying to help out Magalan were you ?

[cont]

barrysnakes wrote: please do not "gang up on me" or even attempt forum bullying as this will not help your companies reputation at all which I am surprised your super dooper fantastic qualifications did not teach either of you !!

Ganging up on you and bullying you ? Really ? You state something that is nonsense and makes no sense (and now makes even less sense) in regards to problems a MM customer reports as having and because two people, who know what they are talking about, try and patiently explain why you are mistaken, because such mistaken beliefs help no one at all, you think you are being ganged up on and bullied ? really ? If you genuinely feel bullied by me then I apologise but what am I to do when I see someone state something I KNOW to not be correct (especially in regards to a MM customer) that can only confuse and mislead others ? Nothing ? Originally I was actually defending Extend, at least as far as I understood it given that you used your own experience as 'evidence' of your theory and stated Extend was your ISP. Kind of ironic really.

1. We never sold or endorsed android TV boxes at any price
2. I already explained you all situations and answered your question where your problem lies, which is your android box and told you its your vendors responsibility to figure out what is wrong with it specifically. I dont understand how you can expect me to further troubleshoot your android box that you purchased from somewhere else and tell you exactly what the problem is.
3. You make a claim, I explain you its not possible, and not the case with Multimax, you keep coming back with the same things, I then try to explain and educate to the fact with further explanations... You cannot call milk 'black' and expect to win the argument.
4. You then resort to below belt tactics, by ignoring the subject completely and making silly arguments regarding the fact that I have revealed my education background. And that you start to make nonsense and clueless implications that my company is suffering somehow and also has financial difficulties.

I dont get how it is me bullying when I only spoke the truth, all my explanations were to the point and the truth.

All you have been doing were throwing senseless and groundless claims, all the while refusing to come to reason... who is bullying who?

K.

@ Barry snakes-I have been reading this thread with interest as I recently purchased an android box to use with NTV via my Mulitmax connection.
I have used a laptop for running xbmc for some time and it works great, very few problems at all.

So I bought an android box as that seemed the way to go for IPTV.

As yet I haven't been able to get the Android box to work properly at all-so like you I am puzzled as to why I can stream using windows but not with Android.

But here is where I disagree with your conclusion re ISPs throttling android connections-
Firstly I did a speed test from my Android box and the download speed was the same as with my laptop(I average 15mbs ),To be honest I am at a loss as to why you think an ISP would discriminate against certain Operating systems-unless the owner of the ISP has had personal issues with Google(who own Andriod),it would be about as logical as Ford making a car that only ran on Shell petrol!

You also mentioned that Multimax have been selling Android boxes-If you mean the Mag 250 box,from what I know about it ,it runs on Linux-not Android as far as I can work out(perhaps Erol or Kemal will put me right there).

Barry, the conclusion I have come to is that Android is not very good for streaming TV,and from the subsequent research I have done a Linux or OpenELEC based system(which is a version of Linux specifically designed for home media)is the way to go.

So the next box I buy will be linux based-and I will try to install Linus on my existing Android box.

Finally.I am surprised you have had a 'Kerfuffle' with the Multimax people(who seemed to be trying to help you as far as I could see),given that you get your internet from Extend,and your box came from Arriva,who have both been deafeningly silent in supporting you on this thread.

Barry- we both have had exactly the same problems,but the conclusions we have reached in terms of the cause and solution are somewhat different!

This thread and my participation here has gone on too long so I will make this post and leave it at that.

The following is my personal opinion, nothing more and nothing less. I do not know that it is the case but it is what I suspect to be the case.

Barrysnakes, I suspect you were fed some malicious BS about 'other' ISPs that is not true or that under analysis even stands up to scrutiny or makes sense. I can even make an educated guess as to who fed you this disinformation. I think you then passed on this false 'propganda', quite possibly in good faith, here in this thread and everything progressed from there.

Time all sides stopped the stirring!!!!

Philoz Thank you for your input on this over subscribed problem ! However although I will not make any more comments on this subject I would like to point out that you say we have similar problems ! I think that should read "Had" similar problems as my android "boxes" work very well now even on a much lower speed than yours of 4mps ! I only repeated what I had been told by a respected engineer at my providers eng dept and not what I knew as I clearly do not have the expertise knowledge of Erol and Kbasat !
I believed this engineer because as soon as he said he would sort this problem out my boxes worked well ! The owner of the company also followed up by telephoning me to make sure all was well ! We were also told that there would be massive speed differences in download from ISP website speed checks and the server that supplies the TV you wish to use ! Regards Barry