Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Just to let everyone know because we had not reported to the police when we rescued the dog from the streets, we could have been in serious trouble and have charges made against us.
In our opinion, if this is fact, they would have to have a separate unit to cope with the numbers we, soft-hearted Brits! save and try and help!
In future if this happens again, we will do as we were ordered!!!
Perhaps someone from KAR can confirm if this is right. Do they have to do this?

Stealing by finding?

bigbadbob - can you call the KAR to discuss what was said/by whom and in what circumstances as we will need a bit more detail/background info. I wonder if they are referring to the "registration/microchipping" requirements if you own a dog - who knows ??? !!!!
0533 8694098. Thanks

Theft by Finding is an offence, but as long as you try all possible means available to trace the owner you would have complied with the act. Theft is defined as follows. Where a person dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intentions of permanently depriving that person/s of their property. So by carrying out whatever enquiries are available to you, your intentions are honourable, and you have no intention of permanently depriving the true owner of his dog. If the owner is untraceable then keeping the dog should not be a problem, but we are in Northern Cyprus not England. Hope this helps. Bevron.

Why do people jump to the conclusion that every law and regulation here it automatically aimed at Brits?

There have been instances of pet dogs being kidnapped, either for sale , ransom or because they are hunting breeds. The Brits are the first to complain if the Police do nothing. There was also the case of the Vietmanese taking dogs for food.

Maybe this is just intended to give the Police powers in such cases?

If you do want to adopt a stray it is wise anyway to do as Bevron says as advertise (posters locally and a website) for a possible owner. Also (perhaps Hamish will confirm) I believe KAR has a list of missing dogs that could be checked.

RR

"Why do people jump to the conclusion that every law and regulation here it automatically aimed at Brits?"

I have reread the posts and can't see what you are referring to. I think Hamish is probably right about the micro-chipping law though.

Ragged Robin wrote: Also (perhaps Hamish will confirm) I believe KAR has a list of missing dogs that could be checked.

Yeah but how long is 'missing' and just off on a jaunt? If you find what appears to be a stray it would be wise to have it checked by a vet to see if it's chipped... bottom line if it has a collar and is not red-tagged for KAR's neuter and release plan then it's possibly not a real feral stray but a straying dog much-loved by a family wondering where it's gone.... So don't assume you can have it just because it's looking a bit lost.

i think if anyone looses a much loved pet, they would advertise the loss and word would be out there that a certain pet is missing. in fact, i would imagine most people would report to KAR and so most people who find a pet can confirm with KAR. maybe KAR can have a 'lost and found' department (if they don't already)...a system whereby one person (and i volunteer to do this) can collect pictures and information regarding all missing pets, and anyone who finds a pet can contact that person to confirm if such a pet has been found...it can be done from home, and all that is required is a phone number and an email...if KAR is interested someone is free to PM me and I would be happy to set everything up myself. i think a central lost and found for pets might be helpful.

moreover, all pets should be microchiped or wear a collar. if you cannot bother to put either a microchip or a collar with your info on your pet, then you are probably not the best pet owner. the collar is really a very easy solution.

lastly, this is one issue that i struggle to understand. i see all these "pet owners" and i use the term very generously, who chain their dogs as puppies and leave them loose on the streets once they are grown up. they claim ownership when someone wants to give them a good home, but at all other times they just leave them to roam the streets, filthy, unspayed/neutered, without the proper shots, worm medication or flea medication. this simply contributes to the stray population. it is frustrating to watch and be unable to do anything. it's like, there is a real problem with a VERY simple solution, but nothing is done about it. it's the lack of thought and pure selfishness that hurts these animals and breaks my heart. there are a few of us who truly love these animals and we try to do everything within our power to help as many as we can, but there are too few of us, and too many strays and bad owners for us to be effective. i have re-homed as many cats/dogs as i could, and it seems many of you are doing the same thing. i hope we can also raise awareness and education about this because it would benefit this society as a whole.

The dog was collarless, covered in ticks and fleas. not microchipped and in a really poor condition, when we rescued him 3weeks as of today.We asked the police if they could ask the family for the yearly registration, inoculation cards or even pictures of family members with him, response 'We do not need to ask them for anything' .
On the day of the rescue, we went on this forum, plus North Cyprus 4 pets site, plus putting posters up, p[lus asking all vet's, plus local shop's, in the area and in town = NOTHING!
I have just been into the local bakers where a poster of the dog was in prominent position on the entrance door. One of the family use the bakery most days, no response to the poster at all, no questions to the proprietor's= NOTHING!
The story of whose dog it is, changed from being one female member, to her mother in law, to her sister in law and then to the sister in laws daughter !!!
Obviously we are both very upset, angry, hurt just wished we had been believed. {the family even accused us of bribing the vet}.

what i don't understand is that if they want a dog so bad, why not adopt one from KAR? or if they wanted Monty, why not just offer him a home? why go about it the way they did?

instead of praising you and thanking you for providing a dog with a loving home and medical attention they resort to force and threats and intimidation. some people are truly sick in the head.

Obviously Bob has had a nasty and unfair experience, but I dont understand the posts: if he asked for registration cards etc., surely he realised someone laid claim to the dog, however badly it was kept. I am afraid this is an instance where the expatriates cannot impose their own views and culture on the one they are living in. Its hard to see dogs neglected, but sometimes appearances are deceptive.

There are plenty of genuine strays needing homes, and surely KAR would bite his hand off if he offered to adopt one of theirs.

I know a Cypriot who thinks I am cruel because my dogs are neutered and mostly confined to house and enclosed garden and rarely even walked. He says I am keeping them in prison. Unfortunately my own physical infirmities prevent me walking far - particularly with three dogs of differing sizes and ages on a lead , with nowhere left where they can run free. I am also increasingly afraid of them picking up poison.

I think he is irresponsible because HIS dogs are allowed to roam at danger to and from the traffic which races down a narrow village street,, are not neutered and I suspect not wormed etc. HE says this is because he cant afford Vets fees - and I can believe it because I am doing without holidays and other things because of the cost of keeping dogs and the cost of microchipping was a real hardship.

Neither situation is ideal, but both sets of dogs appear happy and healthy with constantly wagging tails, and have food, water , shelter and a degree of human and canine company available and are surely better off than strays.

Yes, more education is needed about dog care - also more support for those who are prepared to take in these poor strays.

Just couldn't make it up!

Lost for words Bob.

Ragged Robin you are obviously not aware the Bob and Wendy do already have 4 dogs, they also were looking after Monty. So no need for them to look to KAR for more ,They manage to "find" ones that have been abandoned and abused and have homed 2 already recently!!! As for advertising and posters, have you not been reading this forum for the past month, and seen the posters every where?

An interesting point is surely when to 'interfere and when not. Down the mountain road from my home there is a dog with four pups, purportedly belonging to the shepherd who has some sheep just off the road. But the mum and pups are constantly on the road, and several of us are terrified that they will get run over. But it seems they have an owner. A local hersman. So, we just hope and pray that lal will be well. And then today as I pulled into my garage - suddenly form nowhere five pups (about 2 months old maybe) appeared on the road, . They played and then moved on. Never seen them before. No idea who owns them, and is it my place to findout! These are 'country' folk and live by their own understandings.

Soi..........do I stand by and do nothing and hope that none of them get run over, or should I poke my nose in. But I don't speak Turkish. Or should I ask KAR, but it is equally not their brief to interfere with dogs that are owned.#

Dilemma.

i say give the pups to me, and i will gladly care for them while i re-home them. i am in favour of interference when it comes to the welfare of animals....

owl lady

I notice 'ragged robin' only joined Kibkom 3 days ago,.. maybe he/she could be forgiven for not reading lots of previous posts.

No I havent seen the posters - I cant get out much and anyway I suspect I live in a different area. I deliberately dont read doggie appeals and have to sit on my hands when I see apparently stray dogs because I already have more than I cope with. I only read this thread because the heading and the op lead me to believe that the Police had issued an official warning about picking up stray dogs and I am sorry now I did! but I still think the op is misleading.

I still think it is unwise to interfere unless there is deliberate cruelty in which case it should be reported to the Police and Muhtar as there are laws against cruelty. Neglect is usually due to ignorance and/ or poverty and should be approached by education and assistance by someone who speaks the language of the alleged owners.

With regard to Chrissie's point about caring owners looking for lost dogs - sometimes they cant. There have been cases of people being taken ill, even dying. and their dogs running wild. Surely there was a recent case in the papers of two people who had to return to the UK for urgent medical care, only to find the people they had trusted to care for their dogs had stolen their belonging and the dogs as far as I know still missing. Surely with so many calls on our sympathies (incuding human) these should have first call.

ragged robin - just to clarify, i was not criticizing the extraneous circumstances that sometimes life throws at us, and can truly sympathize with how difficult some of these cases may be. just trying to promote higher sense of responsibility where possible. i made it in light of the fact that it seems we are all animal lovers and each of us does what we can within our means. and sometimes some of us can do a little more.....it was this little more that i am trying to push for.

also, while i agree that we have to respect people's customs and practices, it does not mean that we cannot improve any society in which we choose to live. as much as this country gives to us, we can give back. in light of this, i cannot imagine that having a dog neutered, for example, is a matter of opinion when there is clear medical evidence that it benefits dogs that are not used for breading - as well as help reduce the stray population. rational tells me it is a much better solution than poisoning...tell me i am wrong. similarly, not having an animal de-wormed or de-fleaed due to financial concerns is not one that i will accept, when i have personally met at least two vets who will provide these services at a substantially reduced price or free of charge. similarly, letting pets roam the streets where they can get hit by vehicles is not really freedom. it is carelessness. please understand that again, i am not referring to exceptional circumstances, but to what seems to be the norm.

on a positive note, i also see many neighbourhoods that feed the strays and leave water for them, and care for the strays in their own capacities. much as anyone else, i guess i would like to see improvements that benefit the two legged and four legged inhabitants of this island, alike plus...i think all animals should be loved and spoiled the way mine... and many of yours...are

Sorry Bob, I just didn't realise the thread was about Monty and I think it's a bit rich for the police to say the putative 'owners' don't need to prove ownership in any way, shape or form... because - in that case any Cypriot can simply turn up and take any ex-pat's dog - no questions asked.

Chrissy: I agree entirely , I frequently tell my dogs they are lucky spoiled brats, and should be more grateful.

I particularly agree about neutering: all my dogs are neutered and I agree they are happier for it,particularly te bitches ; and since I enjoy their company and cuddles I treat them for worms and parasites for my sake as well as theirs! This is part of my background, but it does not mean I can impose it on others of different culture: except by example help and education, the latter being difficult due to my lack of fluency in Turkish- and money! There is improvement - I have recently met several locals walking dogs on leads. But it takes time, and it is not for us to force it.

I dont think the poisoning is intended to reduce the stray population. It is partly to protect the crops and livestock of people who depend on them for their livelihood: the answer is for our so called advanced civilization to find alternative affordable ways of reducing vermin. The other is people (including expats I must point out) who dislike the noise!

Vets used to reduce fees for treating strays, but now they assume all Brits can afford it.. There seem to be a lot of well off Brits here and they are consistantly pushing the cost of living - including keeping animals - up. I am not one of them, and I am struggling - I can well understand the poorer Cypriots(and there are still some) just not being able to afford the increased cost of food, let alone treatment.


As for on roads - the problem is even ten years ago these roads were safe not just for animals, but for children to play and there were open areas that are now covered in houses and shops where pet dogs could safely run. If one was used to that the current size and speed of traffic on roads totally unsuitable takes some getting used to, The answer is for people to drive more carefully and not take short cuts through narrow village streets. Fortunately for me and my dogs I had my garden fenced, and double gated (and a large dog run constructed for when there were workmen or non doggie visitors) in happier days so they have a space to run and play without too much risk of them getting out onto a busy road, where even I cant get out of my front door without risk of being run over! But it would cost a fortune now and it is difficult for people to keep dogs safe and allow them a degree of excercise.

As for neighbourhoods feeding strays: maybe it is a step in the right direction. But my dogs tell me (and I expect so do yours) that what they really love is having their very own human being at their beck and call! We need to make life easier for those who take in strays, and help and information about how to care for them more accessible.

Just to right some of the comments of Ragged Robin but not having a go!
1. Monty was just about to be run over in Supreme carpark, when we luckily where there to help him.
2. He had no collar, no microchip and was in a very poor condition.
3. We immediately contacted KAR, speaking to Julie first and then the office. They were full at the time but put him on their waiting list.
When they were coming for him maybe 4 days later, we thought we had a good chance of finding him a home so agreed with them to k foster him. We are sure the family concerned know of KAR and what they do for the lost/dumped/stray dogs.
4. When the family claimed Monty to be their 2plus aged dog that they had lost 2 months previous and we, two vets and other people who know dogs were in agreement that Monty could not be any more than 1years old, would you not have asked for a family photo with him or any other form of proof?
We are not saying the family did not lose a dog but that this dog Monty, is not the one!!!
All we can hope for is that Monty will be looked after, kept safe, cared for and loved - He is one gentle loving dog.
P.S. The family could not be bothered to p;ick Monty up from the police station, sending a man who actually ignored Monty and id n ot know this was the dog in question. The police even noticed this. Monty did not want to go with him, it was heartbreaking!!!

It makes your blood boil doesn't it. We have very rich Cypriot (near) neighbours who brought a dog with them to their holiday home last Summer, tied it up 24/7 at the front of their house (in direct earshot of ours) and ignored it completely apart from feeding and watering it. It pooed where it stood, poor thing! So it was left to me to de-flea and tick it and take it for walks and give it playtime in our garden with two of our dogs for the Summer. As it howled all night in a primeval way the cheeky so-and-sos took to unchaining it at 5.30 in the morning whereupon it would go for a quick tour of Karsiyaka before turning up smiling at our gate. I had to keep our male dog in the house while he played with our two bitches, but at least he had a bit of a holiday too. The father of the family used to wave at me walking his dog early in the morning on a lead. I would point the dog's head at him and say "Look, believe it or not that is your Daddy." Guess I'm just soppy, eh?

We pass a dog every day chained up 24/7 every day of the year, the worst of it is the occupants don't even stay at the property! Yes they leave it water and biscuits but it never gets off the chain, actually it does, I have let it off a couple of times much to its delight but its back on the next day.

BBB: I am sorry I misunderstood the situation, but you must admit your first post was misleading: I hope Monty gets some care and love, even if not the way we would have done it. I also hope you can take comfort from the fact you have given other dogs happy lives they would not otherwise have done. I lost a dog to poison (and there is no hope after that) and the other dogs were a great comfort.

I still dont understand why someone would want to claim a dog that wasnt theirs, perhaps something got lost in the translation. I dont think Cyriots understand the functions of KAR, and they would be unlikely to phone them if they didnt speak much English!

Even if it doesnt apply in this case, I still think it is arrogant to interfere with others dogs unless there is deliberate cruelty. There are so many total strays, and people struggling to cope with too many dogs who would welcome help. We dont always know all the facts. In the days I could walk and before the area was covered houses and shops, I often used to meet Cypriots excercising dogs (which I had presumably assumed were always chained) in out of the way places, where the Brits rarely went. I have also seen such dogs being walked at night - presumably the only time working owners had free - although now that is dangerous because of the traffic

owl wrote:owl lady

I notice 'ragged robin' only joined Kibkom 3 days ago,.. maybe he/she could be forgiven for not reading lots of previous posts.

A rose by any other name but still rambling