Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

I think the author of that piece went on to work for the Daily Mail! Same old - it was the Turks who stole everything and the poor Greeks lost everything.

I always find it strange that when the figures are thrown around there are very few Turks on the Island yet the Motherland of Cyprus is Greece. Good job that there was no major railway project at the time or the Chineese would have outnumbered both and the Motherland would probably have been China!!!!!

There is no need of a solution, there already is one! All it needs is for Greece and the UK to get there respective fingers out of wherever it is they have put them and along with Turkey and Recognise a state that has been in place for the past 40 years without any major problems.

I thought that it was a fairly unbiased attempt to explain the circumstances that led to the situation we have now.

Aitchie wrote:I thought that it was a fairly unbiased attempt to explain the circumstances that led to the situation we have now.

I thought it was the least biased report I've read in a long time.

I feel it was written by somebody who lives in the South, but sympathises with the North. The things said about the GC's and TC's where true, maybe too carefully expressed, but I am sure a GC would think the writer is quite unacceptable. I don't think a clear thinkingTC will disagree with this.

Whaddo, what part offended you particularly, what was not true????

I don't see too much wrong with it, factually there are errors but on the whole it seems to tell it how it is (was).

Dippersgirl, The document is well written but it is written for the South and not the North, I did not say any of it was not true it is the way it is produced that leads any reader to see that Turkey Invaded and all troubles stemmed from there. In whole I am not offended by the document but essential information has been "left out" so that the whole picture is never given from both sides.

My first reply is a solid sheet of A4 which I consider to long to post on here but if you want a copy I will email it to you. I have tried to point out the failings in the document and not to be argumentative in my writing.

waddo wrote:Dippersgirl, The document is well written but it is written for the South and not the North, I did not say any of it was not true it is the way it is produced that leads any reader to see that Turkey Invaded and all troubles stemmed from there.
In whole I am not offended by the document but essential information has been "left out" so that the whole picture is never given from both sides.
My first reply is a solid sheet of A4 which I consider to long to post on here but if you want a copy I will email it to you. I have tried to point out the failings in the document and not to be argumentative in my writing.

Post it Waddo. If it does exceed the limit for one posting, then just copy and paste into two sections and post into two messages - I, for one, would be interested.

Frontalman wrote:Factually there are errors.

Enlighten us Frontalman, as to the errors you see.

Well - part 1!

Para 1 – I have no problems with this and find it to be true.
Para 2 – Another true statement, however, Enosis is not about “reunification” it is about Greek communities that live outside of Greece attempting to incorporate the regions they inhabit, to the Greek state. Or, in other words, an attempt to take the whole of Cyprus, regardless of which other nationalities lived there under the direct control of Greece.
Para 3 – Cyprus was granted independence from the UK and not because the Turkish Cypriots were against Enosis but because it was too much trouble for the UK to handle. Missing completely from the Para is that the UK was one of the THREE guarantor powers!
Para 4, 5 and 6 – These discuss the constitution of Cyprus post the granting of Independence in 1959. Missing is why the constitution failed due to the Greeks wish to make changes to the constitution that would have removed the safeguards to the Turks, provided for in the original constitution. By 1965 the constitution had collapsed and the Turks were no longer allowed in government positions by the Greeks, who always held the majority. Both sides agreed that they did not trust each other and so separation of the two ethnic groups continued.
Para 7 – The Turkish Government did everything in its power – as a guarantor power – to highlight the fact that the Greek – mainland Greece – military wanted to take Cyprus as part of Greece, it received no help! Due to lack of support by the UN, UK and Greece, Turkey then intervened in the on-Island dispute between the Greek military, Para military Greek Cypriot forces and Turkish Cypriot forces! So far it was all legal, sadly Turkey then pushed forward again in the August of 1974 in what can rightly be called an invasion! Neither side came out of this smelling sweet!!!
Para 8 – Following August 74 the population was split between North and South on a largely Turkish North and Greek South basis. The UK, in the guise of the military, assisted the Greeks in every way whilst at the same time minimal assistance was given to the Turks. At this time both sides of the population lost everything they left behind!
Para’s 9, 10 and 11 – Please note that the Greeks rejected peace initiatives in 1976, right up till 1983 and then beyond that all peace initiatives have been turned down by the Greek government, this despite the fact that in 1965 Makarios welcomed a complete integration of the two populations – strange how the tables turned once the Greek side realised how well off they would be with refugee status and help from all countries!

Well - Part 2

Now come to the issues – How strange there is no mention at all of Greek expropriation of Turkish land – was the whole of the Island owned solely by Greeks and is this why the Turks have tried so little to gain their land and property back? Bizonality – The only way to ensure that both sides can live in peace and security – not wanted by the Greeks! Settlers – I left the Island in 1972 just as the hordes of Russians started to show up on door steps with suit cases full of money – I kid you not! Since 1972 there must have been an equivalent number of “Eastern Europeans” settled in the South as there have been Turkish settle in the North – why always make this part of an argument? Plain and simple, the RoC will not be happy until it has the whole Island! Would they accept that any Greek born on Greece or any Greek Cypriot born in another country is also a settler in the South and must therefore be sent back to their country of birth before any settlement could be reached????
Finnaly, where is the poverty in the South and where is it in the North? I have never met a poor thief so if the TCs stole all the land and property via expropriation then why are they not rich as well? It is what is NOT said that gets my goat!!!

Good points Waddo - thank you
I still think though that the article was an admirable attempt at a concise evaluation of the "problem" ... something I would give to friends and relatives visiting from the UK ... many of whom don't have the time or inclination to read something more lengthy.
In any case, thanks again Waddo.

During conversation with an old Turkish gentleman in the back streets of Nicosia I mentioned that I was stationed in Akrotiri in the late 60s. We went on to discuss the British involvement in the Cyprus situation and his comments were ' you have nothing to be proud of". A sentiment with which I am in total agreement !!!

iancrumpy wrote:Good points Waddo - thank you
I still think though that the article was an admirable attempt at a concise evaluation of the "problem" ... something I would give to friends and relatives visiting from the UK ... many of whom don't have the time or inclination to read something more lengthy.
In any case, thanks again Waddo.

Ian I think the article in the link below is also a good account of events leading up to and explains why the worlds stance over the TC community is somewhat unfair...
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 13we45.htm

PS Reunification is definitely the wrong term to use for Enosis as Cyprus never ever has been part of Greece... has it?

Lots of interesting stuff to read, some I know, some new.
I didn't really grow up with the Cyprus issue, having grown up in East Germany and didn't arrive in England until '65 and then was not interested in politics. I'm catching up!!

I like it that the house of commons article leads you to other links, i.e. Ernst Forsthoff... and others.

I have not read any points of view from a Greek historian, right or wrong it would be interesting, any suggestions??

I do agree with you Waddo, (and its good you posted the full version!!) but Ian definitely also has a point, not everybody is so keen to know every detail, but they might be persuaded to find out more if one approaches the subject gently.