Hope4Pets - bank account for donations.

[sally4670]

One of my family made a donation through the Facebook page and thought it was going into a bank account held by Hope4Pets. Now they have been told (by more than person) that it is an individual persons account - not an account in the name of Hope4Pets. Not saying that there is anything untoward but we are always being told to be careful of scams and so many people here had suffered with builders etc. They want to be sure of the status and security of where their donations are going.
Please can someone confirm the legality of this method of donating into a private bank account.
Also are there proper accounts being kept as to what any donations come in and are being spent on.
Is Hope4Pets a charity or not ? Not a lot of direct info on FaceBook (i am told but don't know as don't use it). It is a great thing that they are doing but i have a feeling they need to be more clear about their status.
Also why do they concentrate their requests for help in Kyrenia and surrounding areas where there are lots of exisitng Charities. Woudn't it make more sense to tap new fresh areas - eg the areas where they are trying to help the animals. That would also stop any concerns the existing Charities have about their own potential to raise funds in their own area due to over demands for help.
I know i know - no good sitting thinking i should be doing - but it is all a bit muddy and i do want to help but due t personal circumstances cannot yet.

[Mozgor]

Hi

If you are referring to the GoFundMe account, you will notice that there is absolutely no reference to any group on the page!

I chose to start collecting as an individual to help pay for the food, vet costs etc for the many strays we, as a group of friends, are currently trying to help.

Hope 4 Pets is not a registered charity, therefore, cannot collect donations. We will apply for charity status, but until that is approved, our hands are tied.

I can assure you, that absolutely every penny of this will be spent on the strays of North Cyprus.

If you had access to Facebook, you would see what our group of friends are doing and contrary to what you believe, we are not focussing on Kyrenia area. In fact most of our current effort is going to rescue 30-40 dogs/pups which were living in a compound at the tip in Famagusta with little or not care. Things have improved a lot since we became involved and we have had wonderful veterinary support, surely this can only be a good thing?

To conclude, Hope 4 Pets North Cyprus not Hope 4 Pets Kyrenia has not at any time as a group collected money here. Yes as individuals some members of the group have got together to buy items, provide vet care and food etc. Any money collected has been by me and in the UK.

Hope this clarifies the situation and puts yours and others minds at rest?

However, if anyone has any questions please feel free to make contact. As you are probably aware, posts like this can be very damaging to a group of people who are only trying to help the animals, it saddens to to think that anyone might deliberately be trying to put a spanner in the works before we even get started. The only ones that will suffer will be the strays!

Moyra

[spider]

grrrr, I have just posted a reply and yet again it has vanished,

Thank you Moyra I think maybe we posted at the same time, lol.

I hope this explains all to the new member, I would also like to add, That if you look in the Pets section you will see many postings from the group and the work it is doing,
If your relative is happy to be a member of the group and help,maybe they will be able to explain to you also,

Please email me at mariavic@live.com or phone 0533 839 5561, we could all meet for coffee and you are always welcome to one of the meetings,

I think that all the questions are now given and perhaps the Thread can now be closed, Thanks,

Spider, X

[carrierbag]

Getting charity status in North Cyprus is not only a very long process but a total minefield so I for one applaud anyone who takes the initiative to try and raise money for whatever cause and then have to take the flak that will inevitably come with it. Well done Hope 4 Pets North Cyprus...anything that helps these poor animals gets my vote.

[sally4670]

Whoow - talk about being on the defensive. Am i not allowed to ask questions ! Why is that seen as " putting a spanner in the works " ?

Yes it was through that Gofundme - but they got to that on the Hope4Pets FaceBook page so assumed it was being paid into their account.
Moyra i think you misunderstand/misread when you replied
" contrary to what you believe, we are not focussing on Kyrenia area. In fact most of our current effort is going to rescue 30-40 dogs/pups which were living in a compound at the tip in Famagusta with little or not care " I simply asked WHY the fund raising was being done in the Kyrenia area when it is already saturated with exisiting charities. Surely fund raising should be going on in the area where you are currently putting "most of your effort to rescue ..... in Famagusta" if there are fewer existing Charities there then there may well be extra money available.
You say
"Yes as individuals some members of the group have got together to buy items, provide vet care and food etc. Any money collected has been by me and in the UK."

I was also led to believe (maybe wrongly but that is the impression given) that fund raising was being done in Kyrenia (ice bucket challenge, bucket rattling (money), requests for donations of items to be given and/or sold - it is all fund raising) for the benefit of Hope4Pets.

Spider - i think they were already "joined" in UK but on the old page they said - as i said i do not do the Face Book. They are not members on here and because there is so many threads about it i said i would ask. I had intended coming to meetings once i am settled but i do find the defensive attitude of "Moyra" daunting - if i have any questions then i would hesitate to ask - and i do not think that will be a positive thing. As i said it is a good thing what you are all hoping to do but it does appear a bit muddled - to ask questions is the way sometimes to clarify things it is NOT putting a "spanner in the works".

[spider]

So sorry but I just have to laugh,

The old group has not got the donation posted that Moyra has mentioned , So it seems that maybe they have not donated at all,

Maybe try not to be lead to believe, This seems nothing but a wind up haha, and no I will not be posting the little nam banging his head against a wall, lol

If people are wanting to donate to the street dogs and people are willing to feed them , what is your point, these dogs are starving, !

And as for the bucket challenge you must have read the thread on here ? Oh no sorry you have only just joined,

As I have posted on the Facebook group page, there are many many sad people that seem to bet even more sad and even upset when others want to help others or come to that dogs and cats, lol

Have a good day, XX

Spider, X

[sally4670]

Ha ha maybe you should slow down and read what is actually written !

I didn't say they got to the GoFundMe from the old face Book page - what i said was
" Spider - i think they were already "joined" in UK but on the old page..." - they had "joined" your group when it was on the OLD page.
They have NOT joined the NEW group on the NEW page but "..... it was through that Gofundme - but they got to that on the Hope4Pets FaceBook page " - they saw it on the NEW page. Apparently anyone can see it - you do not have to be a member.

JUST in case it is still not clear for you - they did not donate, and i did not say they donated, via the OLD Face Book page.

Also anyone can read KibKom - the article about the ice bucket challenge has been in various places so i am not sure what you are "banging" on about there either.

All of this for asking questions !

[bigbadbob]

BBB's Other Half Here. - very tired one after helping all morning at the NCCTC's Coffee morning, yes another charity. I also help every Thursday and Friday in their Heartbeat Shop, it is very hard work but I love it !!! I am also a friend and member of Hope4PetsNorthCyprus and am amazed and very proud of what such a small group of us has managed to achieve in such a small space of time.
I also support KAR in various ways and infact used to help in their Glad Rags shop and Julie and the ladies who work up at the shelter, all deserve medals for the job they have to do up there.
To the original poster, I disagree with the comment of the saturation of Kyrenia and taking from other charities.
People have freedom of choice, just as they should have freedom of speech! Some people have more of an empathy with Tulips over NCCCT, some people do not agree with the policies followed by KAR and some no doubt will think that Hope4PetsNorthCyprus are p------ in the wind (excuse my French).
No one can force anyone to do something they don't want to do !!!
There are enough big-hearted people living here of every nationality to support everyone who is trying to help others in some way, whether it is the two legged species or four. There is room for us all !!!
Wendy

[lally]

Well said Bigbadbob. Live and let live. We all gave freedom of choice, aren't we lucky!

[spider]

Dear newcomer,,,

Please read you first posting again,, the first line, So sad that you are not able to leave your family to do as they wish, or do the not understand what GoFund is set up for, ? Why or why would anyone pay any money online and not understand what it is for ? Oh but maybe they did and maybe you the one asking the questions so not ? But as the group is open and you can see, why not take a look for yourself, and if you still do. to understand, I am so very sorry,,and can only put it down to the fact that you are a newcomer, lol

Give me a call and I will explain everything to you, now you cannot get a better offer than that can you

Why not Google it as my daughter would say,, look up how to set up a Go Fund, anyone can do it,, and please why can it not be done here on the internet,,? Maybe you could explain why, And when you do phone and have coffee I tell you what I am very happy to give you a donation of money to give to the charity of your choice, I trust that you would give it to the charity of your choice and not go to a bar,

As I have posted my number I will take it that you will at least phone it, , thank you,

Spider,

[Mozgor]

Sally

I don't want to get into a slanging match with you, but feel compelled to answer a couple of points you have subsequently made.

1. We're not fundraising in Kyrenia, nor anywhere else in North Cyprus as we are not a charity, therefore, are not allowed to. However, if an individual chooses to organise an event in aid of the strays of North Cyprus, with the full support of the Belediyesi, then great. At no time was Hope4Pets mentioned, just a group of like minded people willing to get wet for the strays!
2. The reason I started the GoFundMe is on that page, but will reiterate, it's because we can't raise funds here just now, but these animals need help now! Individuals donating blankets, food etc is their perogative surely?

I'm sure you can understand my defensive stance as your post was rather accusing and challenging. I would have been more than happy to answer any question you may have had or still may have, but would appreciate it not being done on such an open forum. You could have easily contacted me privately via GoFundMe page.

Moyra

[elizabeth]

One of my family made a donation through the Facebook page and thought it was going into a bank account held by Hope4Pets. Now they have been told (by more than person) that it is an individual persons account - not an account in the name of Hope4Pets. Not saying that there is anything untoward but we are always being told to be careful of scams and so many people here had suffered with builders etc. They want to be sure of the status and security of where their donations are going.
Please can someone confirm the legality of this method of donating into a private bank account.
Also are there proper accounts being kept as to what any donations come in and are being spent on.
Is Hope4Pets a charity or not ? Not a lot of direct info on FaceBook (i am told but don't know as don't use it). It is a great thing that they are doing but i have a feeling they need to be more clear about their status.
Also why do they concentrate their requests for help in Kyrenia and surrounding areas where there are lots of exisitng Charities. Woudn't it make more sense to tap new fresh areas - eg the areas where they are trying to help the animals. That would also stop any concerns the existing Charities have about their own potential to raise funds in their own area due to over demands for help.
I know i know - no good sitting thinking i should be doing - but it is all a bit muddy and i do want to help but due t personal circumstances cannot yet.

I think that the points you've raised are valid ones, isn't that what this forum is about. The attitude of some who have answered the post do seem a little over the top, even bordering on the aggressive side, surely others are allowed to question what they're not sure about without being attacked.

[bigbadbob]

Reference my previous post - I know the other charities and would like to know from the original poster who it is that may be concerned that gifting whatever to the street dogs via our group would be a negative for them! Surely the positive here, is the street animals of Northern Cyprus are being helped ! Does it really matter whose hands are trying so hard to give them a better quality of life?
Wendy.
Elizabeth, you quoted from the original poster maybe you know who is concerned.?

[Steph]

Being the organizer of the Ice Bucket Challenge on 30th August 2014 @ 11.30 am in Girne I would like to clarify for anyone and everyone that my idea was intended to raise awareness of all the mistreated and neglected animals in the TRNC, and was broadly advertised as such with the full backing of the Girne Belidiye. If those animals are in Girne, Famagusta, Esentepe, Lefkosa or wherever if they need help then they need help, monetary or otherwise, simple. If people wanted to donate to help them then they were free to do so.

I see many animals on a daily basis, in Girne, that are homeless, starving and afraid. I have rescued and helped dog's cats, birds and even fish continually over a ten year period hoping to make a difference in a cruel world and I will continue to do so.

There were many liked minded people who came together for the event to show our concern and I do not know how helping, in any way at all, might offend some.


Negativity is not an option in my life ~ Love and Peace in your heart to you all xXx

[spider]

Elizabeth,, Liz from the line dance team, KLD,

Please you also have my number too,

And as I have said so so,many times in the past and again on this Thread, the point of posting my number is to mKe it so easy for all to call, ! All questions will be answered ,

Spider, x

[bigbadbob]

Steph - You are amazing! If there are negative comments after reading your post - Whatever !!!

Wendy.

[ifonly]

Well i for one feel sorry for the original poster. All she has done is ask some questions on a public forum that relate directly to an "organisation" or group of individuals who use this forum ( and other media) to promote their cause. And what has she had in return ???? !!!!
I note that Marions has not had the same type and numbers of negative responses (on Famagusta SOS in Pets) in comparison to the ones that Sally (as a newcomer) has had. So maybe it is ok for some people to ask questions but not others.
It smacks of the old Cyprus44 attitude which is such a shame.
Welcome to Kibkom Sally .

[topten]

Elizabeth,, Liz from the line dance team, KLD,

Please you also have my number too,

And as I have said so so,many times in the past and again on this Thread, the point of posting my number is to mKe it so easy for all to call, ! All questions will be answered ,

Spider, x

Ken has brought this post to my notice as I do not belong to any forums. The Elizabeth you mention is NOT me and you should not assume that because of a name it is me and then have the cheek to put your accusation on a public forum. I want you to put this right on this or any other forum you have put my name on. Liz KLDS

[elizabeth]

Elizabeth,, Liz from the line dance team, KLD,

Please you also have my number too,

And as I have said so so,many times in the past and again on this Thread, the point of posting my number is to mKe it so easy for all to call, ! All questions will be answered ,

Spider, x

Ken has brought this post to my notice as I do not belong to any forums. The Elizabeth you mention is NOT me and you should not assume that because of a name it is me and then have the cheek to put your accusation on a public forum. I want you to put this right on this or any other forum you have put my name on. Liz KLDS

I can confirm that I am not Liz KLD nor do I know either that person or the original poster. Somebody is a little paranoid I think

[sally4670]

Wendy - i agree they all need help and so too do the existing charities - i didn't infer that any one of them would be concerned about the money coming to you - i wouldn't know.
My point is that if there are fewer charities in other areas then there is less competition for the "total donation pot" so more may be available by way of donation, in any one area, to Hope4Pets who are trying to help in that particular area. I just haven't heard of any fund raising etc being done in other areas eg Famagusta where the pound dogs are being helped.

I am at a loss as to why my questions have caused such responses.

[bigbadbob]

Sally 4670 the girls and their friends in Famagusta are giving to the animals, as we are here. It won't be long now till the compounds are very close to us all. One is going to be in Lapta, that is the reason KAR are no longer helping in that area. They have published this on here maybe 2 weeks ago.
In your original post you said ''that would stop any concerns the existing charities have about their own potential to raise funds'' i.e. we should not be giving in the same area as them.
My point is, we can all help! The animals are the main concern and are the main issue. Not individuals or charities.
We have to start somewhere and hopefully given time and support things should fall into place.
I give you my word that we are not a scam, we are all just ordinary men and women living new lives here, upset by the treatment and conditions of the street animals and therefore trying to make a difference.
Come and join us, have a listen and put your input in! Anyone who can help in anyway is more than welcome!
Hopefully this will be an end to this matter but if there are any more queries or questions, I will truthfully answer them.
I am going to have my supper now and a big cool drink - Thank you to everyone who supported us this morning at the NCCCT. Not a huge turnout but we still raised a good amount.

[bigbadbob]

Sorrry the last post was from me again - BBB's other Half Wendy. Must get my own whatever on here!

[ailletoo]

<---- Post removed - Please read forum rules---->

[geroff]

jeepers creepers, strange stuff to fight with someone for asking question, bitchy stuff, not very nice now is it.

[topten]

No response from Spider [Maria] still waiting Maria

[Marions]

There seem to be some raised temperatures here. The original poster of the thread seemed to be asking a genuine question, and probably due to the fact that as we all know, scams are a global thing. Not many people realize that thing sin TRNC are more like the good old day s of honesty and trust. But the question was understandable. What is not so understandable is just HOW different things can be out here, and one problem is that the written word canbe misunderstood where there is no inflexion of voice or body language to go with it. Plus of course, people are not sure who they are dealing with.

Ihope that Sally feels she has had her question answered, and I don't think that ~Spider needs to answer anymore on this thread, but she has offered to answer questions privately. Therefore, I think if there is any more to be questioned or said, it is better through the private message or e mail facility.

One thing I have learne d out here is that there are a lot of people with big hearts and deep concern, but because many of us are strangers in a strange land, much generosity can be misunderstood and sometimes can backfire.

None of us is obliged to give to any concern or cause unless we want to. And we can all help in whatever ways we may feel drawn.

Knowing the people inv9ovle din this, I know that they are 100% genuine and honest, but can understand that someone else who does NOT kow them may well question and is quite entitled to do so. So no need for high temperatures in answering genuine questions.

I am sure that Soner will comment - he is very sane and sensible, but for now, I do hope that no one is hurt by this genuine question .

Maybe we should all just carry on loving!

[topten]

There seem to be some raised temperatures here. The original poster of the thread seemed to be asking a genuine question, and probably due to the fact that as we all know, scams are a global thing. Not many people realize that thing sin TRNC are more like the good old day s of honesty and trust. But the question was understandable. What is not so understandable is just HOW different things can be out here, and one problem is that the written word canbe misunderstood where there is no inflexion of voice or body language to go with it. Plus of course, people are not sure who they are dealing with.

Ihope that Sally feels she has had her question answered, and I don't think that ~Spider needs to answer anymore on this thread, but she has offered to answer questions privately. Therefore, I think if there is any more to be questioned or said, it is better through the private message or e mail facility.

One thing I have learne d out here is that there are a lot of people with big hearts and deep concern, but because many of us are strangers in a strange land, much generosity can be misunderstood and sometimes can backfire.

None of us is obliged to give to any concern or cause unless we want to. And we can all help in whatever ways we may feel drawn.

Knowing the people inv9ovle din this, I know that they are 100% genuine and honest, but can understand that someone else who does NOT kow them may well question and is quite entitled to do so. So no need for high temperatures in answering genuine questions.

I am sure that Soner will comment - he is very sane and sensible, but for now, I do hope that no one is hurt by this genuine question .

Maybe we should all just carry on loving!

This is totally unacceptable if some one publicly accuses some one else wrongly [ my wife] she should have a public apology ie on this post.

[Soner]

Original poster has every right to question and find out more - do not attack poster for simply looking for answers.
As for Hope4Pets, working with other established charities until you get registered status, may be the answer to your problem.

[Owl Lady]

Good suggestion Soner, but will we not have KAR supporters saying Hope4Pets is muscling in on their Charity? I am sure their is enough for everyone in maybe smaller doses. Not looking for any medals, but I can honestly name 7 charities I either donate to or try to help in some small way. Tin hat at the ready!

[geroff]

Good call soner,

What next a call for public apology and then maybe hanging for asking about a private bank to put money in for a charity, its laughable.

Can you put some money in my account it will go to a good cause. promise .

[Marions]

Sorry Geroff. I know that people put their money where they feel it is needed most, but I am truly sorry that no one subscribes to the Marion Holiday Fund. Therefore, I am sorry, but as far as Soner is concerned, I am likely to get the money before you do! Sorry!

[frontalman]

Why not work with KAR which is a recognised charity on the understanding that the money you raise can be ring-fenced and used to fund the good work you are doing? As long as all the money is properly accounted for and goes through KAR's books I'm sure this wouldn't be a problem for Margaret. Why set up a separate group if your purpose is to rescue or help stray dogs? This would avoid any suspicions and/or bad feeling.

[bigbadbob]

BBB's Other half here.
Frontalman, your suggestions of the group being incorporated within the KAR structure was initially discussed but it was decided that if we could help the street animals in any way or form off our own backs, we could maybe get on board the people who live here and for personal reasons do not agree with the policies of KAR and do not support them.
In other words we are not taking away from KAR but hopefully creating a different avenue of support - if that makes sense.
To start with we were just a few, now I think we have 580plus members of the group that in one way or other want to help the street animals.
How can this be wrong?
We are giving our own time,money and what ever else and if others want to do the same, so be it.
I really do not like how this debate has ended up and have tried my best to diffuse it at times.
The problem is that where the elderly, children and animals are concerned - passion runs high!!!
If anyone has any questions on the group feel free to contact me. I will answer all honestly and truthfully.
Cannot say anymore really!
Wendy.

[Owl Lady]

Hi Wendy, I know there has just been a meeting at Pia Bella which I unfortunately couldn't make. Is there a date planned yet for another one?

[bigbadbob]

Hello Oh! Wise Owl Lady.
As yet there is no set date but I will let you know as soon as! Promise !!!
Wendy.

[frontalman]

Thanks for that Wendy and Bob. Good luck too. I just thought that going through KAR would bypass the need to set up your own charity, which I believe is a lot of work and hassle. You don't have to agree with KAR's methods if you are doing your own thing, but if you had their blessing and support it would make things a lot easier. They are known and encouraged by the authorities here, and working under their banner would avoid some of the pitfalls you are likely to experience (e.g. the one this thread is about!).

[carrierbag]

As far as I am aware KAR, which is a good organisation as far as I can see (we have two dogs from them), can only help so many animals and will only take animals in from no further out than The Acapulco. That leaves one heck of a lot of North Cyprus not covered so anyone who wants to start helping from the Famagusta end is surely doing a good thing or am I missing something here?

[Lor51]

Hope has a different mission from Kar. Hope and Margaret have already met and had talks. Hope is applying for Charity status. Yes the poster has a right to ask questions as we all do, but Hope has been an idea of two remarkable women for only the past 2/3 months. It is still a baby, wait till its 2 years old and/if it has the charity status by then you will see a huge difference in the TRNC. Hope just dosent want to work in just Kyrenia but in all of the TRNC, they are approaching vets, council members not just in Kyrenia but in all of the major towns. Great great work has been accomplished in Famagusta, its gone from a local dumping ground into a compound with sheltered accommodation, the dogs and puppies are being fed and watered each day, the local vet is calling on the compound once a week to check on the animals and give worming tablets and injections, the mess is being cleaned up, puppies are being rehomed, and all of this has happened because another 2 Ladies and the daughter of one of the girls who live in Famagusta attend each day, they have been helped by donations of shovels, chicken wire, tin baths, plastic bowls, old blankets, rugs, old dogs toys, food, water, and on and on. They still need help, and I think I read somewhere on here, why are hope targeting Kyrenia, they are not, this forum thankfully reaches all of the TRNC, so hopefully, through it, more kind people will want to help at this compound. People want to donate to this fantastic new idea, so why not. FREE NEUTERING for all, is as far as I am concerned is a great vision which I Hope is achieved.

[Owl Lady]

Lovely explanatory posting, as you already know, I am willing to help in a small way, as I am unable to drive. HOPE to meet you at the next meeting!!

[spider]

Thank you all supporters for you kind words and hard work, very well said,

There has always been doubters and many negative posting with regards to KAR and many other charities working here and trying hard to make a difference, Alway will be people wanting a pop and ageing what is in it for the organisers too,

Thanks to for all who,have attended both of the meetings so far and given support, we have now formed a committee and members of the public will not be involved in the meetings, but we will have committee supporters who will attend,
We will also have regular open to the public meetings that you all will hear about,, anyone who is has any questions may bring them to these meetings and all will be answered,

The group is getting larger each day with many more members ready and happy to donated what is needed and in what area too, we have helped many dogs and cats the past few weeks and have also given support to KAR when we have had phone referrals from them,

What more can I say, I do feel all has been said ,and again I thanks everyone for all their hard work and kindness,

Hope,4 Pets will make a difference and this is our pledge,

Spider, X

[Marions]

Take a look at the current KibKom Times, and read a bit more of the story! Plus of ocursepeople can take a look at their Facebook page. It saves people like Spider having to write it all out again!!!!

[Owl Lady]

Yes Marion, but not every is, or wants to be on Face book, so what then??

[Marions]

Just one option. Read KibKom Time,s read Facebook, some people use e mail, and of ocurse the Forum is a great place to discuss. I was merely trying to save a bit of typing energy for the couple of people who seem to having to write a thesis to answer questions.

Must admit I know people don't like Facebook. I don't Twitter and some people tlel me I am losing out. Options. You are quite correct, we don't have to read Facebook but for those who do, all the info is there is they look for the correct page.

Love yer really!

[spider]

Marion, good morning,,

I love your posting on another thread re, the phone number and how easy it is to make contact to get questions answered,, lol

Anyway thought I would,change the subject a little,, many by now must have read about the Manchester fire and all the dogs killed there,, poor things,, there is a just giving page been set up to help, for anyone interested,, I think the link might go me up here below if it works,

Grrrr,,
I give up with links and an iPad,, lol. Maybe someone can post it for me,, thanks,,my new laptop is set up but the ruter will not allow both to work at once for some unknown reason, just off to buy a new one,,

Please someone post the link if you see it, thanks,

Spider, X

[Maisiemoo]

This is so sad, 60 dogs died last night and a 15 year old boy has been arrested. How could he have done such a cruel thing? On the positive side over £200k has been raised for the Dogs Trust.

[spider]

https://m.facebook.com/FriendsoftheAnim ... 28/?type=1

Hope this works,,,

[Marions]

Just an idea. Why not start another thread for this appeal. Technically wha tyou have written is 'off topic' but more importantly people may wlel not read it. So please start another topic to appeal for help for this dreadful situation inU.K. You will probably find more people will read it than at the bottom of this thread.

[DieHard]

I have just read that over 200k has been raised and Wicks will donate all the timber to re build, so they will have no problems re building.