Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

We have lived in Catalkoy for 10 years and knew our previous Muhtar Raif Gurgun well, who sadly passed away 9 months ago. Now we have a new Muhtar by the name of Serdar who has taken up the post. We went to see him today and my wife said that she had spoken to him last Friday saying we would be in for our residency letters and that he seemed a nice chap.

We went in today and found that the Muhtar's residency letter cost had been raised from 2.50TL each to 10 TL each which i thought was a rather large increase. He said nothing about where we should have the letters witnessed and so we went to the normal place we used to go. We were told it was not done there anymore and that there were 4 different places now where witness' were authorised to sign it. We went back to Serdar and I said I wanted to know why we were charged a lot more. He said he had to pay for the building expenses. These we found out are paid by the district office and that he is also paid for his work by them, so where does the extra 7.50tl each come in? Has anybody experienced this increase too? According to the Beldiyesi staff in Catalkoy this seemed extortionate and eyes were raised but wouldn't comment.

In Ozankoy we have been paying 10 tl for our Muhtar's letters for a long while however they are given to you already witnessed & stamped which you should try to insist on.

There's one here in lapta who 2 years ago was charging 25 TL a letter! The one we use charges nothing, which is as it should be.

"Fatouche". Yes I believe that is right. I have seen the scale of charges from the district office. "Ozankoys" the letters have and were always been stamped and signed in our presence but now the 2 nominated witness' (now a choice of 4 and not including the Muhtar as it was without a problem) have to sign it. It seems how the post is written is, that the letters received in Ozankoy are prewitnessed? But then this is Catalkoy I suppose

Our new Muhtar charges 20tl per letter and doesn't have overheads i.e. he works in the Belediye offices. For the last 9 years we haven't paid anything and we were told that Muhtars shouldn't charge and if they did then they should be reported to the Head Muhtar (he's go some title or other). Don't know if this is true or not but it was the then Muhtar who told us.

If they charge for the letter then they should give you an official Makbuz (receipt) so ask for one.... sounds like people being taken for a ride to me.

Fatouche where is the Lapta mukhtar you use that charges nothing, we have to get our letters soon.

We are in Baspinar (Lapta) our's just is happy with some wine and ciggys, that suits me because when we lived in Bellapais 7 years ago we used to pay 15 TL per letter plus the stamps on top.

I think it's very reasonable.

Sound advice Groucho. I've been to Kyrenia District administraton offices today and I was told the official fee per letter is 5TL. But if they have additional expenses (such as a new computer in the office as ours has) then these can be added to the letter charge. A complaint can be made but I am told only a verbal warning is the usual outcome and there isn't a law to enforce the official charge.

Our Muhtar in Dipkarpaz is free and he told us it should be so!! He did not want anything, so I just gave the children some chocolate.

I too, went to the new Catalkoy Muhtar for two 'Residency Letters' for my wife and myself, last week. He did not ask for payment, but I gave him 10TL as I always do! I then asked about the witness signature and he sent me to the coffee shop next door, where our letters were signed.

Pleased you had a a good experience Patrick. We didn't and have made it known having no motive to write otherwise. Oh which coffee shop and where did the number 2 signature come from?

Lapta6, the muktar we use is up the hill opposite Taranci Market, second house on the right.

We just take him a bottle of white wine as it's his favourite tipple.

Hi Philip. It was the coffee shop almost next door to the Muhtar's office and on the same side of the road - I went in and waived my letters and was pointed in the direction of one of the men at one of the tables, who signed both letters; I presume he was the owner. Incidentally, sorry if I sounded smug about my success, that was not the intention; I simply wanted to pass on my own experience. Also, I am curious about how you know my name!!

We found Serdar was cheaper than the one who stood in for Rauf as we were charged 20tl for a vehicle change form where the Turkish couple before us were charged 5tl. We needed the form so instead of getting upset, just paid it thinking what mugs we are.

PapaBravo wrote: I am curious about how you know my name!!

If you click on someone's profile it shows their name if that's what they have put on their Kibkom registration....

There is no official charge for the Muhtar's letter.... it's a fiddle. Certainly charging expats for the Muhtar's computer is outrageous....

Then our new Alsancak is on a good thing. Works for Belediye, has his own water business and charges 20tl per letter. Quids in!!! I think questions are going to be asked in the house about that one in future,

If you could see the state of the computer systems in the Catalkoy municipality offices you would cringe and wring your hands in dispair that any of them work at all. I have spent hours working on these outdated systems only to have them fail time and time again following white/brown outs. None of them operate on anything above Win XP, the vast majority only have 512Kb of RAM and if you can find a hard drive above 40MB then you are lucky. Anything from dead chit chats to small dead snakes found in the fans and curled up (fried) around the CPU heat sinks, I could go on and on but the point is this:

I am more than happy to donate an extra 15TL a year to any department to bring them fighting and spitting into the 1990's as far as technology goes!!!

If you click on someone's profile it shows their name if that's what they have put on their Kibkom registration....

Thanks Groucho. I have learned something new today!

what a load of tight arses if people take time to do things dont they deserve a payment . did you work for nothing cant beleive the mentality of some of the people out here wake people that are willing to have a knock on the door and fill out a form 10tl you must be having a lark

gates wrote:what a load of tight arses if people take time to do things dont they deserve a payment . did you work for nothing cant beleive the mentality of some of the people out here wake people that are willing to have a knock on the door and fill out a form 10tl you must be having a lark

Wow Gates I see you've chosen to bestow upon us your usual ready wit.... not!

Do people deserve to be paid for their work....?

Mostly, yes they do, but are you sure Muhtars are not already paid for their work as some posters seem to think they get a stipend attached to their position... What also concerns many is that the charges being levied vary wildly from village to village. I would also add that there are lots of people here who perform civic-minded tasks out of the sheer goodness of their hearts and/or a sense of duty in serving the wider community - not seeing their position as a means to feather their own nests...

If all in the community were contributing I don't think there would be many, if any, detractors but if it's only expats who are being asked for payment can't you see that some folk won't find this acceptable as a principle?

Oh Groucho, what a star you are!! You have saved me cloning what I intended to say. Regardless of stipend or not, the Muhtars stand for office because of the clout and authority (historically) it gives them. The position of Muhtar (or Reeve) goes back centuries and they and their families love it. The 20tl (that we have paid this year) is irrelevent to them, it's a bonus pure and simple. Some are greedy, some are not, it's the equivalent to a Post Code lottery which one you are saddled with.

If you have lived here a few years your eyes should be open to few brown bags full of cash being bandied about here and there, if you think 10tl to the Muctar is steep try an afternoon at Customs, more noses in the trough than at the local cattle market, skin tax or racism as one would call it in the UK is an acceptable practice, just ask Kibtec about meter deposit prices for foreigners. 10tl to the Muctar to me is a small price to pay for what I've seen achieved in the village and surrounding areas in the last few years or would you rather see your annual property tax increase by 200tl.

Thank you Patrick, I am now aware of 4 officials who can sign it. Muhtar's are paid 850TL per month for what they do and as I said 5TL is the charge recommended but not enforceable by Girne District Admin Office. I am looking forward to next year when its gone up to 300tl per letter for reasons of hatred in speaking up!

We never paid our old Muhtar as he was a neighbour, the new one charged us 10tl for a double signed, stamped form, very reasonable in my opinion.

However, the problem as is usually the case here is nothing is defined, documented trained and understood, everything is made up as people go along.

It would be a very easy system for the Gov to define and control charges, as they do with medicines, make it mandatory to have them on display, and then everyone would understand the costs up front.

Muhtars give a lot of their time for free, and do a fair bit of running about. If anyone thinks 10tl is expensive, how about they give the job to the local Advocats and see what the cost is then?

Again correct me if I am wrong. I have been led to believe that once upon a time the position of Muhtar was an unpaid honour. Now I think they get something like half the minimum wage!!Most of them either work else where or have their own businesses.

Look at you all - Whining and moaning about about a couple of Quid!

You should be bloody ashamed of yourselves!

You will all of paid upwards of £1500 per year in the UK in council tax,and the OP is whining about how he has had to pay 10TL(less than £3) for a letter from the Muktah.

It's less than a pint of Efes,and doesn't deserve the number of posts.

Get a grip and if you don't like the system......

Philoz.......Having read thro the thread I do have to agree with you. The charges IMO are so reasonable as to not worth worrying about...yes some may do it for free, others may charge but at the end of the day...why worry!

I think the upset is why are the charges are so different, as I said earlier the Turkish couple only were asked one price and us another. Maybe it would be better system, workers, locals and OAPS!!!
Phil Oz would you be happy to pay double for your efes than the person sat next to you!!

Makum wrote:..... just ask Kibtec about meter deposit prices for foreigners.

Ahh this old urban myth chestnut again.

http://www.kibkomnorthcyprusforum.com/v ... 83&p=74515

PoshinDevon wrote:Philoz.......Having read thro the thread I do have to agree with you. The charges IMO are so reasonable as to not worth worrying about...yes some may do it for free, others may charge but at the end of the day...why worry!

Not to worry, is everyone's prerogative.... as it happens we are not charged at all so I don't actually have an axe to grind but I do feel for those applying who think some Muhtars are using the residency process as a means to make what must add up to quite large sums of money (which is going where?) out of what is for them the misery of this annual process....

I guess it's bad enough that the residency rules as applied here have changed into what are probably the most draconian in the western world, without feeling that you are being taken for a mug in your local community as part of the process....

In what other country do you reside for so long without gaining any rights of permanent abode? When we first moved here permanent residency and/or citizenship could be applied for after five years... then in 2008 that was whipped-away and the goal posts have moved inexorably away each year...

If it was clear that there is a fixed local charge used for local good works I don't think anyone would mind.

I don't think it's fair for those who are happy to pay these sums to belittle others for taking exception to them if they feel they are dis-proportionately high or they are being taken for mugs .... It is very rude and really quite annoying to be dismissed as 'cheap' for caring about such things.

At our first attempt for temporary residency we went along to our local Mutah for our letters.
He was the local butcher. Whilst he attended to our needs he continued to chat & serve his customers.
We handed over all our paperwork including all the stamps we'd bought.
When we got our papers back all the stamps had gone.
I had to smile as I imagined someone unwrapping their sausages & finding them stamped & ready to post!

Bonnie wrote:At our first attempt for temporary residency we went along to our local Mutah for our letters.
He was the local butcher. Whilst he attended to our needs he continued to chat & serve his customers.
We handed over all our paperwork including all the stamps we'd bought.
When we got our papers back all the stamps had gone.
I had to smile as I imagined someone unwrapping their sausages & finding them stamped & ready to post!

Yeah but philately will get you anywhere! Even Cyprus!

Off Topic but:

If you are interested in Stamps (Philately) then there is a really good book called "Foundation of Turkish Cypriot Postal Administration" currently available in only Turkish, but if I can get my finger out enough and complete the copy reading and correction of the English translation, it will soon be available in English as well.

I have never had an interest in stamps - since doing the corrections in this book from my friends I have learnt so much about the history of Cyprus from the late 50's onwards that I would recommend it to anyone. Remember that the book is not written for its "Journalistic" but for its proven, historical value. One thing I have learnt from it "Stamps do not lie".

Groucho is quite right. It's not the fact that we paid 20tl per letter per person a couple of months ago, it's the fact that some pay nothing, some pay 5tl and some pay 20tl which is annoying. If you add up the times you need a new original letter (no photocopies allowed) as I have twice this month, add to this buying a new car, applying for temporary residency and other reasons, it can add up during the course of a year. Sadly more and more departments are refusing to accept photocopies