Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Posted: **Wed 04 Jul 2012 7:31 pm**

Hav ing posted elsewhere that some of the points re voluntary work.charity work/work permits has been clarified (withmore clarification to come), does anyone have any comments which could be published in this week's Cyprus Star. I am happy to place any of them anonymously, but would like to hear if anyone has strong feelings, or suggestions . (no really rude comments, please).

I know some people have been in deep despair this last week and charity workers have stood back out of fear of recriminations, but atg least it is now clear that charity workers giv ing their time and energy and talents to RECOGNISED charities have little to fear, but entertainers come under a slightly different set of rules, and no helping out in shops please, you need a work permit.

any comments anyone? As I say, totally anonymous.

If I could I would telephone you all but I am afraid the budget and time won't run to that.

Posted: **Wed 04 Jul 2012 7:42 pm**

Hi Marion, no really strong feelings after all I am only a guest in their country but I cannot understand how a country reliant to a good deal on tourism can allow for one of the more pleasent acts of dining out and being entertained can so successfuly be stopped for what I would imagine is only small part of tax avoidance. I am sure that the performers, if asked, would contribute to the tax income on what they earned not on percieved earnings. they need to be treated fairly

best wishes
Mick

Posted: **Wed 04 Jul 2012 8:01 pm**

Thanks Mick. Your feelings are much the same as many others, namely that there should be a way of entertainers being allowed to work to bring in revenue for restaurants and taxes to the government. Unfortunatley there is no such thing here as 'self employed' so it gets complicated. Maybe a working Party could come up with some ideas which the government MIGHT wish to consider to simplify it so that everyone is happy. But thanks for your thoughts - will quote them (anonymously, of course).

anyone else?

Posted: **Thu 05 Jul 2012 6:16 am**

Why not introduce self employment as we have it in the UK, where a person can set up a 1 person business, have a set of accounts tc. and pay whatever tax is due at the end of the year. Most of the one person companies will be enterprising people that just need some extra noney to live here. Usng their skills either as singers, entertainers, craftspeople, market traders etc. Again, generally people that are not taking jobs away from Cypriots as they have come up with their own work, but wish to be legal, and would pay taxes on what is ACTUALLY earned, shown by their accounts, not what is guessed at by the government. Sorry, that was a bit rambling, but I know what I mean!

Posted: **Thu 05 Jul 2012 6:23 am**

its not even easy to get a normal work permit, the government say no there are to many cyps (locals) unemployed but then they dont to work and yet the ones willing to work have hell of job trying to be legal

Posted: **Thu 05 Jul 2012 6:45 am**

Stellastar,

Great idea but as andres4232 indicates, getting a normal work permit is a task in itself.

I wanted to find a part time job when I first came here and wanted to do it all legally but could not afford it.

Though I was going to work part time and therefore earning less than the state monthly minimum wage, I still had to pay full 'price' for my work permit and the deductions for social sigorta, provident funds and paye on the state monthly minimum wage and not on what I was earning.

You would have thought that all these standard deductions, which I would have been quite happy to pay to remain legal, would have been based on what I was actually earning - so I gave up!

Posted: **Thu 05 Jul 2012 11:17 am**

There is a loophole for entertainers. If someone could set up a company, that can employ all types of workers, and then employ all the entertainers under one umbrella, so to speak. This was done about 3 years ago by a restaurant owner. We paid our own work permit and insurance and tax, he organised the accountant. He also took commission on every booking we took, and then got greedy and started asking for more money every month.......thats when I pulled out !!!
But it can be done, just needs an honest employer (pref T.Cypriot).

Posted: **Thu 05 Jul 2012 1:03 pm**

I think Peter feels his 'Fiddlathon' is a non starter. Whilst he may be given permission to play what about all the other entertainers who hope to join him, line dancers, folk dancers, Scottish dancers, Tango dancers, singers, guitarists, etc. Will a work permit be needed for EACH one of these performers. And WHY would they need a permit in the first place if this event is all in the name of charity.

Personally, I feel the whole situation is a chaotic mess and now it seems that the Government is on a 3 month recess and nothing will be done.

If there is a written law in existence then why can't they publish it, both in English and Turkish and then there is a slight chance that everyone will understand what is required of them before they can offer their services either for free or payment.

Pigs and flying come to mind.

Posted: **Thu 05 Jul 2012 2:55 pm**

Hi,

We live on a complex and my husband does some gardening around the site to keep himself occupied. He does this voluntary and receives no payment but has now been told to stop doing this as he is working illegally and could be fined and deported. Can this be right, if he didn't do the watering in the evenings the plants would die.

Bobby Boy

Posted: **Thu 05 Jul 2012 6:44 pm**

Thanks for those thoughts. You will see in Cyprus Star tomorrow a few thoughts and an update from the Min of Labour to the office. It does not answer all the questions and there are more questions that are being posed.
You have all made many v alid point,s and Star Media group are trying to follow through on ev erything to try to find a better way through.

But as far as Doc Martin's Fiddlathon, it really is O.K as the Belediye should be taking charge of everything. Talk to Sue and Carole of tulips as they have been made a bit more aware of everything. But unfortunately nothing is simple, and maybe the idea of one of the organisations here on setting up a working party to come up with some ideas is a good one - but of course it might not change anything, but that is not a reason for trying.
I think the Government is trying to protect against any malpractice - there are people going aorund in the name of charity who are NOT registered charities and the government wants to clamp down on those. But in order to protect it does seem they have gone a little too far the other way. Let's hope the pendulum can settle in the middle.
the idea of self employment would help a lot, but of course it means more workers, but I had the idea that if they granted 4 year v isas (as in Australia) they could deploy staff to another section of the government to deal with other matters!
But that is just an idea

any more thoughts, anyone.

Posted: **Thu 05 Jul 2012 9:47 pm**

I am hopelessly confused - could some kind person please clarify for me:

Do the entertainers who now need a work permit (a) give their services for free : or(b) are they paid a fee and donate a portion to Charity and/or make a collection for charity at their performance.?

Ditto with Charity workers - are we talking about people(a) who give their services for nothing or(b) people who are employed by Charities but paid a wage??

Seems to be to be a considerable difference in both cases.

It also seems to me that there is confusion (perhaps also on the part of the Government) between

Work Permits which presumably are intended to ensure that citizens do not lose job opportunities because of the number of none citizens taking work, The criteria should surely be whether there are adequate citizens available and willing to do the workin question or whether the non citizen has skills that are not widely available among citizens and would be valuable to the country.
Charges should simply be to cover admin. costs and not to deter potentially useful workers.

Income Tax which is a legitimate (well should be just dont talk to me about HM Revenue and customs!) way for Governments to raise money and should be graded according to earnings.

Social services (National Insurance to Brits of my generation) which funds medical treatment and assistance to workers for illness, accident etc. as well as pensions. Do non citizens benefit from any of these anyway (apart from emergency accident hospital treatment which is not in any case work related)
The N. Cyprus Govt. may understandably (and with an eye on the EU) be concerned that non citizens could put an unacceptable burden on what is a very fragile and probably underfunded system.

Posted: **Thu 05 Jul 2012 9:59 pm**

good questions. Most of these will be answered in tomkorrow's Cyprus Star, and next week more details about taxes etc. there is osme concern that people who run market stalls should be made to pay tax. it is all grey area stuff.
your questions re charity/volunteers etc, should all be answered but if it is not clear, post again, and I will see what I can dig out of my files. it is still a minefield. One of the problems also as mentioned by someone else is that even iwth a work permit the monies deducted mean very little is left but that applies in lots of countries.
I do hope this can be sorted soon, because some charity fund raisers are giving up. yes, people may help raise money for charities with certtain rules with which they must comply. but you cannot volunteer to help a friend who has a business - no keeping the shop running while they pop out for lunch. You must have a work permit, which is crazy because you are not being paid. But i am sure some of these things will get ironed out, and if you are confused Rambling Rose, I can assur eyou that you are not alone.

Posted: **Fri 06 Jul 2012 9:12 pm**

Marion, congratulations on a very good article in Cyprus Star today.
I wonder if you could just clarify a number of scenarios.

1. If say, for example, a lady, let’s call her Serife, alighted from a ministerial car and collapsed having a heart attack. If an expat, a retired doctor just happened to be passing and gave assistance would he be fined 6,500tl and deported as he didn't have a work permit, or should he ignore the person’s plight?

2 Your article mentions entertainers performing 2 or 3 times a week, but how does the law impact a group who put on a play every 6 months or so? I am thinking of KADS who performed last week, of which you had connections some while back.

3 Karaoke is a form of entertainment. What is the legal position, should one wish to sing, unpaid and for others to listen to (or scoff at if it were me)?

4. Many of the Karaoke organisers/promoters, like for example Johnnie Lee, sing to the audience during the evening. Will they need a work permit?

5. If someone wants to invite a group of performers from abroad to perform with a local group, what is the legal position? I understand the non residents will be able to get permission to work quite easily, eg Tom Jones; however will each temporary resident expat individually have to apply for permission to perform, although they, the ex-pats, will be performing for nothing, whereas the non-resident performers may get paid for their work or at least have expenses re-imbursed?

6. Another scenario: A person decides to work for Charity, perhaps in a charity shop, an animal handler or an organiser of quizzes, and gets a permit to carry out this work through the Local district Office. Will they then have to cancel their residence permit, as they will have a work permit? If so what is the cost and any other impacts of this?

Looking forward to your comments.

Posted: **Fri 06 Jul 2012 9:51 pm**

Thanks for the nice things, but it was a bit of a joint effort with Sue - but a lot of work did go into that.
Your questions confirm what we already know, that further questions are raising their heads, and they DO need to be answered.
I am going to follow through on the questions you ask. I could comment now, as some are fairly easily answered, but, I personally feel that there is definite room for a working party so that we the public can know EXACTLY what is what. It is still a bit woolly, as is obvious from your questions (and other quesitons form others). will follow through on this and much appreciate your writing.
As they say 'Watch this space' or will it be the space in the Star? or both?
Hope all is well!

Posted: **Fri 06 Jul 2012 10:22 pm**

forgot to say, Joe Soap that I LERVED your first question! it would appear according to the law, yes, a 6,500lira fine, but I guess the lady would pay that herself out of kindness. Not sure about the deportation aspect though! It just shows how the law is 'a ass'.
it also got me to thinking about the story of The Good samaritan. I wonder if all the others passed by on the other side because of a law on volunteering in those ancient of days? One can';t help but wonder.

Posted: **Sat 07 Jul 2012 10:32 am**

thanks again Joe soap and these questions willbe added to the list of further queries on this (ridiculous) situation.

SO DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS THAT COULD BE ADDED in an effort to try to find some cut in stone answers, and who knows to maybe have the amended law further amended! Hope spring s eternal.

Posted: **Sun 08 Jul 2012 8:15 am**

Did Tom Jones have a permit?

This government should be thankful that there are so many people who are willing to give up their time and expertise to help the less fortunate.

I also believe that this island would be a much poorer place without these volunteers because the government certainly would not pay for the things the charities raise monies for. One example is little Ismail's prosthetic arm and his cancer treatment.

I am dismayed by the petty attitude of the government and yet, after 8 years not surprised by anything that they cook up.

Posted: **Sun 08 Jul 2012 12:24 pm**

I was wondering about Tom Jones too. ! And I agree with everything else you said. There are several who feel that way, ands I hope that these thoughts get put to the Government, so maybe (yes, I love in hope) they will reconsider some aspects of the latest bombshells. Thanks. I will [pass this thought on (anonymously, of course)

Posted: **Sun 08 Jul 2012 12:41 pm**

Re: Tom Jones ( and other 'International Artists) - I understood that the situation was rather different in that case, & that arrangements can be made in advance, and permission granted, for performers to visit the TRNC to 'work' on specified dates at specified Venues.

Resident ex-pats (or rather those with 'temporary visitors visas') know full well that they are not allowed to work 'for pay', and almost always trot out the excuse "I was doing it for no pay, for a friend"

Of course I think that the confusion/misunderstandings/obfuscation surrounding Charity work is appalling & needs to be sorted out ASAP, but it is undoubtedly a predictable result of the normal knee-jerk rulings that are rushed through in reaction to a specific case, without any thought whatsoever to the wider implications.

How many times have we seen such rules suddenly introduced without consultation, only to be as rapidly modified/withdrawn/forgotten about?

Posted: **Sun 08 Jul 2012 4:27 pm**

The retired doctor is Joe Soap's question 1 would have a lot more issues to face than just operating without a work permit. Even if in his own country he would be working illegally if he were retired and no longer registered as practising with the Medical Register. He would presumably not have a medical bag withhim and his techniques could well be out of date. Most important he would not be insured and he could face a large claim (and his patient lose the chance of compensation) if he misdiagnosed and caused damage (even death) rather than good.

This is one of the justifications for work permits and any Govt. has the right or rather the duty to ensure that any pofessional wishing to practice meets its criteria.

Of course there will be the rare occasion where the need for speed of treatment overrides
adherence to the rules and one can only hope common sence prevails and doctor and patient and lucky and nothing goes wrong.

There is a Nevil Shute book that explored the consequences when an immigrant - a highly skilled and qualified surgeon in his own country but without permission to practice in his host country- operated in an emergency wihout permission because a registered practitioner was not available. Marion, you may know of this - the host country in that case was Australia.

Posted: **Sun 08 Jul 2012 4:37 pm**

PS The Nevil Shute novel is "The Far Country" - still well worth reading.

Posted: **Sun 08 Jul 2012 5:21 pm**

Rambling Rose ............... I think you rather missed the point re the doctor. If I collapsed in the street I would hope someone would come to my assistance (even if the assistance was misguided) rather than say...... now what are the legal consequences of me helping. Oh, I had better not help/interfere until my lawyer gives me guidance.

As you refer to a novel, may I refer you to another book, this time the Bible.... the story of the Good Samaritan ...

Incidentally, if charity workers did take into consideration the legal consequences of some possible mishap as a result of their actions then I doubt whether there would be any charity work carried out.

Joe

Posted: **Sun 08 Jul 2012 5:46 pm**

Joe Soap wrote:...If I collapsed in the street I would hope someone would come to my assistance (even if the assistance was misguided) rather than say...... now what are the legal consequences of me helping. Oh, I had better not help/interfere until my lawyer gives me guidance...

I do agree with you.

Many people have some rudimentary knowledge of First Aid, often from HASAW training, and even the simplest procedures, such as putting a victim in the 'Recovery Position' can save a life by preventing someone choking on their own vomit. Other examples are the Heimlich Manoeuvre, CPR, using applied pressure and elevation to reduce blood loss.

None of these actions is likely to make a situation worse, and if it did (say, by exacerbating a spinal injury) then you would generally be protected by having acted reasonably, and in good faith.

People receiving this sort of training are warned of the risks involved in exceeding the limits of their knowledge and experience, and that they should never attempt to 'Prescribe' - even aspirin given following a heart attack carries its own risks...

So, I believe that it is totally nonsensical to suggest that that anyone able to render assistance in an emergency should be inhibited because of fear of possible action under Employment / Immigration Legislation.

Posted: **Sun 08 Jul 2012 7:13 pm**

Joe Soap: It is you who are missing my point. I did not say the Doctor should not help - I was simply trying to make the point your example was a somewhat emotive over-simplification and suggest that whether or not he had a Work Permit was an irrelevancy in view of the other factors to be considered - perhaps you and KC will have the courtesy to take the trouble to read my third paragraph in which I said in certain exceptional circumstances legal considerations should be overridden and common sense prevail.

But it is important that we should be aware of the laws and understand the reasons for them, and give serious thought to this before criticizing them let alone trying to override them. I suggested in an earlier post that more information was needed before comment could be made on the work permit issue. It now appears it was not about work permits at all but about venues that had paid for a music licence objecting to "unfair competition" from venues evading the licence by using performers who claimed to be unpaid. It also appears there is no threat to genuine unpaid voluntary workers for Charities. People - particularly those who genuinely care about charities have been caused concern and stress because of speculation on advance of facts.

AS far as your last para is concerned I agree that voluntary charity workers are exposed to some risks from which they would be protected if they were under a formal contract of employment. I suspect that is why in more "advanced" countries like the UK more and more charity work is being done by paid employees with the inevitable result that less of the publics contributions goes to the intended end recipient. In an ideal world Governments would provide protection for voluntary workers - but I dont know of one that does and would be very interested to hear if anyone else does. However this does not relieve voluntary workers of the responsibility to be aware of the legislation that covers their efforts and make informed decisions as to whether they are able and willing to work within that framework.

Posted: **Sun 08 Jul 2012 7:15 pm**

Joe Soap: It is you who are missing my point. I did not say the Doctor should not help - I was simply trying to make the point your example was a somewhat emotive over-simplification and suggest that whether or not he had a Work Permit was an irrelevancy in view of the other factors to be considered - perhaps you and KC will have the courtesy to take the trouble to read my third paragraph in which I said in certain exceptional circumstances legal considerations should be overridden and common sense prevail.

But it is important that we should be aware of the laws and understand the reasons for them, and give serious thought to this before criticizing them let alone trying to override them. I suggested in an earlier post that more information was needed before comment could be made on the work permit issue. It now appears it was not about work permits at all but about venues that had paid for a music licence objecting to "unfair competition" from venues evading the licence by using performers who claimed to be unpaid. It also appears there is no threat to genuine unpaid voluntary workers for Charities. People - particularly those who genuinely care about charities have been caused concern and stress because of speculation on advance of facts.

AS far as your last para is concerned I agree that voluntary charity workers are exposed to some risks from which they would be protected if they were under a formal contract of employment. I suspect that is why in more "advanced" countries like the UK more and more charity work is being done by paid employees with the inevitable result that less of the publics contributions goes to the intended end recipient. In an ideal world Governments would provide protection for voluntary workers - but I dont know of one that does and would be very interested to hear if anyone else does. However this does not relieve voluntary workers of the responsibility to be aware of the legislation that covers their efforts and make informed decisions as to whether they are able and willing to work within that framework.

Posted: **Sun 08 Jul 2012 9:05 pm**

Rambling Rose,

I wasn't actually responding to your post - I was tackling a specific point made by Joe Soap, you will see that I started my post with the quote from him that I was addressing.

Having said that, I did read the paragraph that you have drawn attention to, and I find nothing in it to disagree with, and I think that my post was generally in agreement with your views, even though I was not actually responding to your post. So I'm not at all sure why you specifically requested that I should take the trouble to read your third paragraph...

Have a nice day now

Posted: **Sun 08 Jul 2012 10:16 pm**

Keith C: To avoid further misunderstanding - this is the paragraph of your post which lead me to think you had not read what I said properly, and to object to the implication that I was suggesting people should not help others in difficulties for fear of legislation (and use the rather insulting term"totally nonsensical" ) when I was actually making a different point.

"So, I believe that it is totally nonsensical to suggest that that anyone able to render assistance in an emergency should be inhibited because of fear of possible action under Employment / Immigration Legislation."[/quote]

I suspect your (and indeed mine in a different context) concern is that the current "compensation culture" can deter people from helping when they should andit is well worthy of discussion on a different thread, but to tie it into the issue of Work Permits and Music Licence only serves imho to further confuse an issue which is already too clouded by irrelevancies and misinterpretations.

Posted: **Mon 09 Jul 2012 8:13 am**

Rambling Rose,

I wasn't actually responding to your post

I hadn't actually read any part of your post, and my comments were not directed at you.

You will know when I am talking to you, or commenting on something that you have posted, as I will commence my post 'Rambling Rose....', as indeed I have done with this post and my previous post.

The post that you appear to object to , and the particular phrase therein, was in fact a response to a small section of Joe Soap's post, and I actually quoted the section that I was commenting on, and included his name - 'to avoid any misunderstanding' as to what I was talking about.

You might care to note that I was talking about well intentioned members of the General Public, who might possess a little knowledge, rather than a 'lapsed' Doctor, and my intention was to re-assure potential Good Samaritans.

I certainly did not intend to insult you or anyone else, but I do not see how I could have made it any clearer who and what I was referring to.

We seem to have wandered off the point somewhat, it's getting reminiscent of that scene in 'Life of Brian' where they're having a heated discussion about the names of the different Resistance factions, instead of concentrating on defeating the Romans... - Pax?
.

Posted: **Mon 09 Jul 2012 9:49 am**

Ramblin' Rose

" It now appears it was not about work permits at all but about venues that had paid for a music licence objecting to "unfair competition" from venues evading the licence by using performers who claimed to be unpaid."

Where did that come from - it hasn't been mentioned in this thread?

Posted: **Mon 09 Jul 2012 10:38 am**

magalan,

I think that Rambling Rose was referring to to this article in Cyprus Today...

As I mentioned in an earlier post:

it is undoubtedly a predictable result of the normal knee-jerk rulings that are rushed through in reaction to a specific case, without any thought whatsoever to the wider implications.

How many times have we seen such rules suddenly introduced without consultation, only to be as rapidly modified/withdrawn/forgotten about?

Posted: **Mon 09 Jul 2012 11:49 am**

The law that has caused the uproar is to do with work permits, entertainers, charity workers, volunteers, in fact everything that is connected with work and ex pats in those sectors. It is not just about charity workers, and even within that, there are several categories. But slowly it will all unravel. But much of it, is a knee jerk reaction, but apparenty anothert restaurant was raided which had an etertainer, and that was nothing to do with charity work.
It's complex and confusing.

Posted: **Mon 09 Jul 2012 6:13 pm**

Keith: Message 31. Yes I was promted by that article, but, because I dont always believe everything I read in the papers, I would add that it confirmed what I had seen on another forum and heard in discussions with friends.

Posted: **Mon 09 Jul 2012 6:37 pm**

Keithcaley wrote:Rambling Rose,

I wasn't actually responding to your post

I hadn't actually read any part of your post, and my comments were not directed at you.

Oh! But when I read a post commenting on another (as Joe was on mine) I automatically read the originating post, and I had assumed others do likewise. I though this was a general discussion not a series of two person conversations

You might care to note that I was talking about well intentioned members of the General Public, who might possess a little knowledge, rather than a 'lapsed' Doctor, and my intention was to re-assure potential Good Samaritans.

Good intentions can sometimes be misguided and do more good than harm. I did, however, take you point about qualified first aiders , but if I may go ot for a moment, that is a different situation and as you yourself say they are taught the limits to which they can safely "interfere"

- Pax? By all means, I think debate is good but have no intention of getting involved in pointless arguments.

In fact I am not going to take any further part in this thread . Not becauseof you Keith, but because it is developing into the sort of thread which caused problems elsewhere. People want to bash the Government for reasons unrleated to the topic, and based on supposition and hearsay rather than solid facts. I dont say that our administration here is anything like perfect and somethimes like many other administrations with longer experience their legislation punishes the innocent for actions of the guilty (I could if there were time and space quote a number from the UK).. However I am sickened by those who come here without knowledge of the issues involved, fail to recognise the complexity of the problems that face the administration and particularly fail to acknowedge that quite often the problems are ascerbated by irresposibility of a section of the expat community, and that this needs to be faced and dealt with before we are too critical of the mote in our bothers' eye.

.

Posted: **Mon 09 Jul 2012 8:03 pm**

Rambling Rose,

We seem to agree on almost all points then

And I'm sorry that I skipped your post

I would just add that the UK can be almost as bad for rushing through legislation in response to specific incidents, but I think that TRNC has probably got the 'edge' in that speciality...

Posted: **Tue 10 Jul 2012 5:45 am**

With regard to entertainers I have always thought the simplest thing was to introduce a permit system, perhaps payable at the Beledeyer.
A bar/restaurant obtains an annual permit, say at a cost of 1-200 pounds. This could be variable depending on the size of the venue.

On each occasion music is performed, musicians, discos, karaoke etc a permit for that night is pre purchased at the beledeyer for say £20. This would equate to a reasonable amount of tax for an artist or band for entertainment in a bar restaurant.

Simple, easy to police everyone is a winner.

Generally the whole paranoia about foreign workers winds me up. The Cypriots are up in arms about anyone else working but they are still the biggest user of illegal and or foreign workers.

Posted: **Tue 10 Jul 2012 6:24 am**

Jonnie,

I don't disagree with you.

A 10 year old could devise a perfectly workable system for allowing people to work in various situations, but it requires the will to do it, and the viewpoint that says that it is necessary in the first place.

Realistically, the situation at the moment, from the official standpoint seems to be:

Immigration: Resident ex-pats are granted a Temporary visitor's Visa on the basis that they have adequate funds to support themselves and their dependants, without paid employment. The issue of allowing Businesses to attract customers / Tourists by providing appropriate entertainment is nothing to do with us - it's a different Department.

Employment: Foreigners will only be allowed to work if a prospective employer can show that the foreigner possesses skills to do a job that cannot be met by a TRNC Citizen. Arrangements for granting Work Permits have been in place for a considerable time, and are well known. These arrangements are perfectly satisfactory for traditional Employer / Employee relationships. There is no provision for 'Self Employment' or 'Casual Labour' or additional Voluntary / Occassional taxation on paid labour for Foreigners, nor is it needed, as all Foreigners are either employed conventionally, or are self supporting. The issue of allowing Businesses to attract customers / Tourists by providing appropriate entertainment is nothing to do with us - it's a different Department.

Tourism: The reason that Tourism is declining is because of the Embargoes. However, we have arranged for 10 Million additional visitors to come to the TRNC over the next 'xxx' years, starting in 'xxxx'. These Visitors will fly direct from Moldova, The Windward Isles, and Mars. The issue of allowing Businesses to attract customers / Tourists by providing appropriate entertainment is nothing to do with us - it's a different Department.

Interior Ministry: All Legislation that is currently in place is perfectly satisfactory. We see no point in creating work for ourselves, when we will get paid just the same, for sitting around drinking coffee. The issue of allowing Businesses to attract customers / Tourists by providing appropriate entertainment is nothing to do with us - it's the responsibility of the Immigration / Employment / Tourism Ministries.

You would laugh, if it didn't make you want to cry...

.

Posted: **Tue 10 Jul 2012 9:39 am**

I am confused about the charity worker part so maybe Marion can help out. In The Star it says (a shortened version) that as long as a charity volunteer is not receiving any remuneration no work permit is required but it is advisable to to give written notification to the Labour Dept. The local district councils are authorised to submit these kind of permits, which are free of charge if the charity is registered.

The article also states that even if an expat 'helps out' in a shop voluntarily, the law states that they are not allowed to work without any work permit.

Now moving onto what was written in Cyprus Today; Other unpaid charity workers, such as those who run stalls or shops, would not be required to notify the government unless there is free music which could be deemed as unfair competition.

Both papers have interviewed the same chap, Mr Onderol - which statement do I believe?

Posted: **Tue 10 Jul 2012 9:42 am**

'Unfair competition' between venues is the wording that Mr Onderol uses in the Cyprus Today article so I tend to agree with Magalan, it is coming down to a venue having a music licence, many venues do not have this and straight away this causes unfair competition to those who purchase their music licences.

It is too hot to do any fundraising at the moment so gives me a good excuse to sit with my feet up for a month or so while 'they' sort out this mess!

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Re: anyone got strong feelings about the employment laws?

Re: anyone got strong feelings about the employment laws?

Re: anyone got strong feelings about the employment laws?

Re: anyone got strong feelings about the employment laws?

Re: anyone got strong feelings about the employment laws?

Re: anyone got strong feelings about the employment laws?

Re: anyone got strong feelings about the employment laws?

Re: anyone got strong feelings about the employment laws?

Re: anyone got strong feelings about the employment laws?

Re: anyone got strong feelings about the employment laws?

Re: anyone got strong feelings about the employment laws?

Re: anyone got strong feelings about the employment laws?

Re: anyone got strong feelings about the employment laws?

Re: anyone got strong feelings about the employment laws?

Re: anyone got strong feelings about the employment laws?

Re: anyone got strong feelings about the employment laws?

Re: anyone got strong feelings about the employment laws?