Pronunciation

[topten]

How do people pronounce Catalkoy, is it the Mrs Bookay way that is Chat-al-koy or the Mrs Browns way which is Chattlekoy. I bet the people that live there choose the Bookay way of saying it.

[karmels]

Your first go was correct, Catal is a fork, koy is the village.
There is a story behind this name but I don't know how true it is.

[Keithcaley]

I was just wondering if it could also refer to a fork in a road - say, where the old road over the mountain splits off from the coast road...

What's the story then, karmels?

[karmels]

I don't know how many years ago maybe when the Moores were here but it is said they attacked the village and cut off the heads of the villagers and put them on spikes along the roads.
This was told to me buy a Cypriot friend.

[karmels]

Sorry Keith, but forgot to mention Ozankoy.
This village was named after the TRNC poet Ozan who only died about 15 years ago in London.

[Spud50]

Çatalköy does mean fork village but köy ıs village, koy is inlet.
The ö is pronounced differently to the o.

Have been learning Turkish for a long tıme and still find it very difficult.

[Deniz1]

Chatalkur is the correct way

[Keithcaley]

...The ö is pronounced differently...

Try to imagine Cilla Black saying the word 'Air'

[karmels]

The why do they call it KOY EKMEK ??? or KOY HELIM ??

[rfs52a]

Sorry Mel, but Ozankoy is - village of the poet - which is named after the late poet Osman Turkay. We live on the street named after him in Ozankoy.

[karmels]

rfs52a
Sorry you are quite right, I have got my wires crossed. I used to live in Ozankoy and remember his death but forgot the correct name.

[Navek]

Something you may not have known...

Çatalköy/Agios Epiktitos is twinned with:

Altınova, Turkey

&

Zabrat, Azerbaijan (since 2005)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agios_Epiktitos

Navek

[terry2366]

Shatalcoo is correct.

[Ragged Robin]

Surely ç is pronounced ch? ş is pronounced sh: Thus the cedilla replaces the letter h in English.

I heard that Karmel's story of the martyrs relates to the Tekke of Hazaret Ömer which stands on the rocks on the promontory next to the old airfield, I am not sure of the story, but I think the Martyrs buried there were the ones who were beheaded. Worth a visit anyway.

Osman Türkay wrote in English, and very complicated English at that, and won several international prizes for his poetry. I have two of his books if anyone wants to see them, I must admit I dont understand it: he was fascinated by astronomy .

I find the pronunciation of the ö in köy, one of the biggest problems in speaking Turkish. Sometimes I hear it as "u" but sometimes , more like oyu. Is thıs the famous dıfference between Turkish and Cypriot? Either way my Yorkshire vowels get in the way!

I have wondered about koy (without the accent). Could it be some sort of contraction of koyu (thick or dense)?

[Deniz1]

I live there and have never heard it pronounced shatalcoo by anyone.

[karmels]

Deniz1.
After reading your last post I had tears running down my face. As R.R. states his Yorkshire vowels get in the way, mine are from Lancashire but still get in the way.

[dippersgirl]

Pronunciation is not so difficult for Germans, especially the Umlauts ü ä ö, it's the grammar..... aaagghhh!!!

[Keithcaley]

Pronunciation is not so difficult for Germans, especially the Umlauts ü ä ö, it's the grammar..... aaagghhh!!!

At least Germans have the advantage of being used to the verb being at the end of the sentence.

- and having some really long words!

[Groucho]

Chat-Al-Kur-E is as close as I can get with phonetic pronunciation using ordinary English syllables....

Köy which has an Ö with dots where the Ö should be pronounced as an 'ur' sound not O or Oi or OY... so all villages with koy should sound like kur-E with the slight E sound from the Y tagged on the end... Just saying koy as in coy has become so common it's almost impossible to hear anyone pronouncing it properly now.

[kaiserphil]

Pronunciation is not so difficult for Germans, especially the Umlauts ü ä ö, it's the grammar..... aaagghhh!!!

dippersgirl - have to agree. I have lived in Germany since 2008, but I think my Turkish is still better than my German.

This is a good read, by Mark Twain:

http://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/texts ... erman.html

[kaiserphil]

Having said that, Turkish can be quite useful here!

[mikelapta]

Just to add my two penny worth....Havıng been learnıng Turkısh for 5 years,ıf a name has 3 syllables,the emphasıs ıs on the second syllable,so.....Istanbul,ıs pronouced IsTANbul,lıkewıse Çatalköy ıs pronounced ÇaTALköy...... Hope my teacher gıves me a DonDURma for thıs...

[sophie]

Try living in Karaoglanoglu and you'll hear about 10 versions of this (remember the silent g) Even the locals can't altogether can't agree on how it should be pronounced. As to the umlaut, then I do agree it helps hugely if you have a smattering of German. I'm quite good at picking up the absolutely basics of a language, but Turkish (after 10 years) has got me beat!! I can say all the polite hellos and goodbyes, I can order a meal and how much items are in shops etc., my colours, count after a fashion, order fruit and veg but have a proper conversation, then forget it. Most European languages have a hook that you can hang on to, that hook being latin, but sadly not Turkish.

[Deniz1]

Thats why lots of them say Ayogi instead.

[Ragged Robin]

The trouble is English is a Romance language - ie based on Latin (though it has a lot of latter additions, including Norman French) as are for instance, French and Italian , so there is a lot of vocabulary in common, whereas Turkish and German come from another "family" entirely.

The advantage of having learned any other language is one does not automatically assume an English sentence structure.

The problem with having French at school is that having survived in one's youth the culture shock of a language where everything has a sex*, in maturity one is struggling with one where nothing has

* Or course I should have said "gender"

[Deniz1]

Karmels. Tuna says I speak Cypriot turkish.

[Ragged Robin]

Try splitting into component parts:

Kara : black

Oğlan: boy (or son)

Oğlu: possessive of oğlan =

Son of a black boy.

Though ıt usually seems to be slurred KarOlanlu

Its a Turkish surname, and the village was named for the Commander of the Turkish troops landing at the beach in 1974

That's another thing about Turkish - the ****** double possesssive!

[sophie]

RR. I know about the origination of K., and I'm told by most of the locals that I have it more or less correct, however younger locals who have grown up listening to foreigners getting it wrong, are actually starting to accept the wrong pronunciation which seems a shame.

[Ragged Robin]

Yes, Sophie I have noticed that too and it does seem a shame. I have heard several locals pronouncing Gazimağusa wıth the Englısh g ınstead of ğ. Presumably a case of "if you can't beat 'em join 'em" and the only way to make themselves understood to tourists. I do not think its only the English to blame - bear in mind that English (or sadly American English!) is the lingua franca of the modern world and a lot more other nationalities speak English than Turkish - they must get confused if they are already speaking in a second language and have then to remember a different pronunciation of proper names.

[karmels]

R.R how many London Turkish Cypriots have moved back to live in the North, this is one reason things are changing.
You remember Ozankoy as it used to be, a quite village with lots of tourist staying in rented villas, but now these people have bought and live here, some on & off some are now returning to their own country but nothing will change.

[Ragged Robin]

You have a good point there, Karmels, maybe Londralı have more influence on speech patterns , as well as culture and materialistic values than ethnic Brits!

Just dont get me started on the changes in Ozanköy

I used to be able to get glimpses of the sea from my garden, walk the dogs safely in five minutes to fields and olive groves,(now all covered in concrete) go to the nearest Supermarket without taking my life in my hands crossing the road, and park there under the shade of trees. I could even open my front door in wintry weather without being soaked by spray from a speeding 4 x 4s

[Keithcaley]

R.R - Isn't it past your bed-time?

[topten]

Try living in Karaoglanoglu and you'll hear about 10 versions of this (remember the silent g) Even the locals can't altogether can't agree on how it should be pronounced. As to the umlaut, then I do agree it helps hugely if you have a smattering of German. I'm quite good at picking up the absolutely basics of a language, but Turkish (after 10 years) has got me beat!! I can say all the polite hellos and goodbyes, I can order a meal and how much items are in shops etc., my colours, count after a fashion, order fruit and veg but have a proper conversation, then forget it. Most European languages have a hook that you can hang on to, that hook being latin, but sadly not Turkish.

Pardon me boy is that the K................. choo choo

[karmels]

Best way to say it Kara - olan - olu, for get the g's.

[Deniz1]

Easy enough to say a friend of mine used to say kajagoogoo but then he wouldnt pronounce anything correctly no matter how easy.

[Owl Lady]

I think my first pronunciation was best Karangalangaloo my late husband used to say there are too many langs in it!! I think I can say it now after 10 years living here!

[karmels]

Deniz1.
This was the brandy speaking.