Selling propery

[kiplet]

Can you use a notary ( not sure if spelling ) to sell property or is it a must to use a advocate ?

[Keithcaley]

You can use a Notary (actually - 'Certifying Officer') just as all the locals do, but you will still need to work your way through all the legal requirements.

If you are selling to a TRNC citizen, then the transfer of Koçan can be done on the same day, but if the buyer has to apply for 'Permission to Purchase' (PTP) then you will need a Sales Contract, registered at the Land Registry Office.

In that case, the buyer may insist on 'Power of Attorney' and that you leave them sufficient funds so that they can complete the transfer themselves when they do receive PTP without relying on your 'Goodwill'.

It is a complicated process, and you would probably need someone to guide you through the ins and outs, and assist language-wise at the various offices if your Turkish isn't up to scratch...

[kiplet]

Thanks Keith much appreciated.
Has anyone sold property through a notary ?

[ozankoys]

As Keith has said you do not actually need any legal representation to sell property if you are selling to a Cypriot. You just have to get the forms filled in, apply for a valuation from the Land Office then on the transfer day you go first to the Tax Office to pay the Stoppaj (Sales Tax) then to the Land Office where all the forms are signed by both parties & the Purchase Tax is paid, then the cash or bank draft is handed to you this is the most important bit - job done.
If selling to someone who needs to apply for PTP so is not transferring straight away it is normally their choice whether they use a notary or lawyer to prepare the contract to the agreement of both parties. The service would be the same but not the fee, which the purchaser would normally pay anyway.

[Keithcaley]

...the fee, which the purchaser would normally pay anyway.

Good point - I forgot to mention that!

It is really the buyer's choice, as is making sure that the terms are to their liking, because as long as the cash is handed over, the rest is of no concern to the vendor...

[sophie]

Take the money and run is usually the advice given to the vendor if its a local buying your property. However, make sure that you have someone sitting in your local bank (if money is being transferred to a UK bank) so they can confirm on the phone that money has gone into your account. Don't be like some people I knew about 4 years ago, who believed the purchases Advocate and the TC bank that the money has been transferred when it hadn't. They very nearly "sold" their property to an out and out crooks (aided and abetted by their Advocate)

[jofra]

......In that case, the buyer may insist on 'Power of Attorney' and that you leave them sufficient funds so that they can complete the transfer themselves when they do receive PTP without relying on your 'Goodwill'.....

Keith - if you could help me, please -
I am just starting the process of buying; I'm in the UK and have engaged a notary, giving her power of attorney (to minimise the number of trips I have to make!). I realise I will have to come over to sign etc (when PTP is granted) to effect the transfer of the Kocan, but "sufficient funds"? I assumed that as the buyer, I would have to pay the fees for the transfer anyway - or is this not the case? I had read that purchase tax (6%), stamp duty (0.5%) and Municipality Tax (1% of Purchase Tax) were part of the 'buyer's burden' is this correct, or are there more - or less?
Thanks in advance for any advice you can give....

[Keithcaley]

If the Vendor is not classed as a private person, selling his sole residence then there may KDV (VAT) and Stopaj Tax to pay.

As there is no legal obligation on the part of the Vendor to actually complete the transaction at some unspecified date in the futeure (If, and when you receive PTP - which is far from being guaranteed) then you need to have the facility to complete the transaction yourself, in case the Vendor is no longer around, or is simply 'not interested' in completing the transfer, and spending money in the process.

To that end, you (or your notary / Avokat / or friend ) would need Power of Attorney to act on the Vendor's behalf, and the funds to pay their dues, because if their affairs are not in order (including all their business affairs, if the Vendor is a Company) then the transfer cannot go ahead.

My advice would be to pay only a nominal deposit now, and to pay the balance on the day that the Vendor completes the transfer, and hands over the Koçan in your name - as is the practice in the UK.

Any other way leaves you wide open to fraud, coercion, etc. You should insist that the Sales Contract is worded accordingly. If the Vendor refuses those conditions, then walk away.

Incidentally, your 'Notary', with a suitable POA, can act on your behalf - there is actually no need for you to get on a 'plane, simply to 'sign' anything at all.

My previous post was directed at Vendors, whose only worry is actually getting their hands on the cash - after that, it's the buyer's problem. I'm not saying that that is right and proper, or that it is the way that things 'should be' - but it is the way that things are...

How can you force someone lying on a beach in Thailand to complete your transfer? - Answer: You can't!

[jofra]

Thanks for that; the vendor is (as far as I know) a private person - he and his wife bought about five years ago, but have now moved to Italy, and an estate agent (in Cyprus) are now handling the sale.
As you advise, only a nominal deposit has so far changed hands, with the receipt stating "...Should clean transfer into the Purchasers name not be possible, this deposit will be refunded. Should the Vendor cancel the sale for any reason, then the Deposit will be returned to the Purchaser."
I'll ensure that similar conditions are included in a sales contract! I'll also check whether my notary and/or the estate agents have POA for the vendor.
Thanks again!

[Keithcaley]

The fact that there is an Estate Agent handling the sale is reassuring, as they will have ensured that they , at least, will get paid - not that you are their responsibility, far from it, and you can't assume that all Agents are 'whiter than white' either...

However, it does tend to indicate that the Vendor simply wants the transaction done and dusted, and has left instructions and authority behind to enable it to be done.

How I wish that I had been around to give me advice years ago

I would be interested to know which Estate Agent is handling the transaction for the Vendor, and also how things turn out. Don't expect it to be problem-free - nothing ever is here!

If you don't want to post the Agent's name on here, you could PM me, or email me if you prefer: keithcaley@yahoo.com

Good luck!

[jofra]

Thanks again; the remark about estate agents is reassuring to me , although I've heard tales of some dubious(?) ones - not perhaps so much "bad apples" as "bad onions"....
However, this property (apartment) was advertised with three agencies (that I found, maybe more?); Boyra Estates, Henry Charles, and Stringers - as I said, the vendor bought it nearly six years ago, has never used it, and put it up for sale at least a year ago. Fortunately, neighbours and a good maintainance company have kept it in good nick - we've holidayed in adjacent apartments and been in this one, so we know it's sound. Having been shown round but not subjected to "hard-sell" by Stringers, they're the firm that we're now dealing with. So it's now just a matter of fingers crossed that everything goes as smoothly as can be expected in Cyprus......

[jofra]

Well, to resurrect an antique - started purchase proceedings May 2015, now finally and absolutely completed by the receipt of the kocan!
Fortunately, it was not an "off-plan", but as already mentioned, a previously owned (but unused) property. However, despite everything being done at a distance (us in UK, notary - not advocat! - in TRNC), it all went surprisingly smoothly and quickly - sales contract was quickly registered with the Tapu and PTP was obtained within five months, and kocan in our hands a couple of days ago!
Our adjoining neighbour on the same site (also a preowned property) bought over twelve months earlier, and was still waiting for the kocan last month....
A TC friend who recommended her family notary to us as she (the notary) has done the family's legal business for many years, said "it's not only what she knows, it's who she knows" - during a visit in April, we saw her in action in a couple of offices, and too right, she brooked no opposition!
My greatest regret is that her english is extremely poor, and my turkish is non-existant, so I could not personally thank her enough for her help and patience with us, but had to rely on my friend to pass it on.
This was the first time she had ever handled a property purchase for a foreigner (me), so it also involved a bit of learning for her, but nevertheless, she did (IMO) an incredible job!

[ozankoys]

Congratulations on receiving your Kocan! It just shows that it can be done providing you do your research & carefully choose who you deal with hope you have many happy times in your new home.

[kerry 6138]

Congratulations, just check your kocan is a full individual Kocan not a shared or Land Kocan, both of which are no problem until you come to resell.

[cyprusishome]

Kerry 6138
Sorry you are wrong about shared kocan. I would imagine most folk selling have a shared kocan.

How do I know - just done it!!!

[PapaBravo]

If someone sells his property (assuming he had a PTP for that property), will he need another PTP to buy his next property?

[kaiserphil]

Yes, it is permission to buy a particular property, or at least it was when I was there.

Hence the problems with Turkish Title.

[kerry 6138]

Kerry 6138
Sorry you are wrong about shared kocan. I would imagine most folk selling have a shared kocan.

How do I know - just done it!!!

Sorry should have clarified, if selling to a TC who wants to borrow the money to buy, there are a lot of people including me who left the solicitors with a kocan only to find later it didn't include the house

[cyprusishome]

Kerry,
Yes got fed up of TC's turning up, even though they had been fully briefed by estate agents as to what our circumstances were. They just wanted a nosey around!!

As for PTP question, every purchase by a "foreigner" must have a PTP.

[kaiserphil]

Kerry,
Yes got fed up of TC's turning up, even though they had been fully briefed by estate agents as to what our circumstances were. They just wanted a nosey around!!

As for PTP question, every purchase by a "foreigner" must have a PTP.

Yes, I could write a book about the TC viewers we had round.