Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Kibkom moderators do their best to keep control of situations that occur on threads. They try to be fair and if threads start to turn into slanging matches then they lock or even delete - end of story.

Now, as many may already know several posts had been deleted then reinstated after being PM'd by members that wanted their right to respond. I believe we had been fair in giving these members the opportunity to state their case in a respectable manner.

On closing "Freedom of speech" thread by one of my moderators, who rightly did so as it was getting out of hand again, another thread was opened called "THE RIGHT TO REPLY - FREEDOM OF SPEECH" by ATT in which he states: "The targeted and vile campaign against us via an online forum is disgusting and the forum operators should be ashamed that it was allowed to happen." - What a Cheek number one!
To which Barrysnakes responds to and I move both posts to the locked "Freedom of Speech" thread, whereby one of my moderators deletes his posting as it only served to pour more fuel to fire.

Then Barrysnakes starts up another thread called "Freedom of Speech On Kibkom you avin a laugh !" of which I did not get to read as Marion had edited it and left a message.

I receive a PM from Barrysnakes: "If you do not re instate my answers to this "person" I will be speaking with Anne at Cyprus Today who is waiting to publish this whole awful story about a personal assault that your forum seems to support !" - What a cheek number two!

In my honest opinion, no sides had been taken, posts have been reinstated when requested to allow "Freedom of Speech", seems like we should not have listened to the requests and removed threads from start, but then again both parties would have continually complained.

Well, threads have now been removed, any new thread on the matter will be deleted and member will be banned. As for ATT and Barrysnakes, I have now banned them simply because they were ungrateful as to how we moderated their posts.

Enjoy the rest of the Bayram.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't Soner.

Well done Soner we were all getting a bit sick of it all.

Well thank you Soner,

Certain people think they can do what they want and when they want.

I for one will stick up for the forum and the moderators for you are in the right.

Kind regards.

Peter.

Its all a bit 1984 ish, I on a personal do not care about the issues being discussed, BUT I do believe that everyone has a right to voice an opinion, Banning people from a public forum is counterproductive. Either it is a public forum, warts and all, or it is not, just my opinion.

You get my vote Soner.
As said before, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Soner, you did us all a favour, thank you very much

I tend to agree and surely the moderators must have realised from the very first posting that this was going to be a very contentious subject.There had been a lot of previous history leading up the alleged assault which I'm sure the moderators must of been aware of so why allow it to be posted in the first place knowing it was quite likely to end in tears.?

Just my thought.

When someone has the nerve to threaten me with any form of action or run kibkom down to other media after doing our best to satisfy them by allowing them to post in their defence under "Freedom of Speech", in my books is well out of order. 1984? Maybe... The forum is for the public to use freely by abiding by forum rules. Again this year the forum has been under attack by hackers, this is what is happening behind the scenes and with which I have to deal with, so being threatened by members as well, does not go down well.

Well done Soner



I think enough is enough. Kibkom gave people the chance to air their views, voice their opinions but ATT, Barry Snakes & Gavin Simmons just take things too far. You done the right thing

Art, yes and it had been dealt with, but when closing a thread when members wish to state their case causes just as much headache with being bombarded with PM's or new threads. They wanted and had the opportunity to state their case in an appropriate manner - no need for all to jump in and start throwing fuel to fire. Opinions between moderators were mixed, but I took the decision to leave thread going as long as we kept an eye on it so it would not get out of hand - on the instance it did then we would lock / remove; this is what has eventually happened. There is no right or wrong.

Mutlu Bayram Boss,and moderators

mikelapta, it's one to remember. Entertained by the Entertainers - not.

Soner, out of interest is this a permanent ban for both parties or time limited?

Art wrote:I tend to agree and surely the moderators must have realised from the very first posting that this was going to be a very contentious subject.There had been a lot of previous history leading up the alleged assault which I'm sure the moderators must of been aware of so why allow it to be posted in the first place knowing it was quite likely to end in tears.?

Just my thought.

Hi Art,

As Soner has said there was a lot of discussion between moderators about this thread and views were mixed as to what action or not should be taken.....in the best interests of the forum and its members. The decision was to let the thread run, keeping a close watch and on the odd occasion post a comment to explain a moderators action or try and keep things within the rules. A difficult task in trying to get the balance right.

As for the previous history, yes there probably was but from my perspective I have never seen these
entertainers performing, have no interest in doing so and had no information to make me think that they would act in the way they did. It now seems this disagreement between entertainers has been ongoing for some time and has come to a head over the last few weeks and in particular the last couple of days.

There have been lessons learnt and now we move on.

All the best and enjoy the holidays.

Moderators have a thankless task and they cant do right for wrong at times. Well done for getting rid of these unpleasant threads.

It was left for as long as possible for the parties involved to have their say, but it deteriorated as such it needed to be removed. To me this has left a very unpleasant taste in the mouth and I feel it has done all those 'entertainers' reputations no good at all, they should feel ashamed by their behavior.

Keep up the good work mods.

Have a peaceful weekend all.
LL

It appeared the comments were from the entertainers themselves and in my personal opinion it was bad publicity for them all and you did them a favour by stopping the posts. Don't get me wrong, it was an interesting read and I now see more into the personalities of the people who "entertain us" which is a shame! Even more of a shame is this outburst has physically hurt someone, caused stress and upset to many people and now caused our moderators to look at their actions...disgusting guys, the moderators are here to help us all not just a small group of people who have a gripe with each other and bad mouthing people who are trying to get on. If your legal you should be sitting back biding your time with a smug grin on your face. It works for us expats too, every year I renewal my residency but do I shout and advertise about the people who don't? No and wouldn't dream of it either.......
Well done moderators don't question yourselves or give into threats from bullies...

It's interesting isn't it that some people want some threads closing down because they don't like what they read.
Why do people read the post in the first place.It can usually be spotted that a post is not for them in either the title of the thread or within reading a few post.At that point they should stop reading and move onto something else.
If no one is interested in what is being said the post will soon die and disappear.
Of all the post in this thread # 5 by tutor4u seems to be the most apt.

Coming soon to TRNC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nebe1zuEtbc

I do not feel that entertainers will suffer by bad publicity whether its Barry Snakes, Andrew Tait and Glen King, George Michael or Robbie Williams! All of them have taken a thrashing at some point during their career. Entertainers, how ever big or small, will always have their loyal fans and a turn over of weekly holiday makers who just want a bit of music and entertainment during their stays in North Cyprus. In most cases, bad publicity enhances their profile!
We must remember that most of our ex pat entertainers, especially the ones that have been in these recent threads, legal or not legal, have done a tremendous amount of charity work here using their 'entertainers' profile giving up their free time. Without them, these charity events would of not been so successful.

Elizabeth,Can you explain your point.

Some of the people some of the time springs to mind!!! Moderation, the definition of which is: "The avoidance of excess or extremes, especially in one's behavior or political opinions." makes the task of a moderator extremely difficult to fulfill.

This is a very well run forum that provides essential information for both visitors and all people who live here. It will never be perfect - no forum will ever achieve that accolade. The existing Forum Rules are elastic enough to allow for a considerable amount of leeway on peoples posts and that is good for the majority.

Although we, as Forum Users, are guests of this Forum, it must be remembered by all that we are simply that - "Guests" - and that ultimately we have no say in how the Forum is produced and managed, that is in the sole domain of the Forum Owner and his/her appointed Moderators. The Forum Owner has the absolute right to refuse entry to guests and "evict" guests who cause disturbance to the majority/minority - in the same manner that any person hosting a gathering of people at their own establishment or home has right of eviction, surely nobody can refute this?

On a personal note, I became concerned with the content of many of the posts contained in the threads that have since been removed. As I have no moderator powers - probably a good thing as I am a harsh moderator in my own right - I elected to refrain from discussion or comment on any of the threads.

Why? At the very start of one thread there was a posting made by someone who made comment that "Legal" measures would be taken!!!

Had I been a moderator at that point I would have locked the thread and any other new threads that attempted to comment on the original thread or its reasons. I have no doubt that following discussion with the Forum Owner that the entire thread and its follow up threads would have then been deleted and a reason give for this.

Therefore, may I, with great respect to all moderators and owners, propose an addition to the existing Forum Rules?

"Should any thread contain allegations which show intent to pursue or may result in legal action, they will be removed upon discovery. The thread will be locked and replaced with the explanation: This thread is locked and the content is under examination"

This may go some way to halting the thoughtless "written" comments that, because they are written, fail to convey the "Tone" of voice in which they are made. The thing that most of us forget when we write is that the person reading the comment can not hear it and therefore tends to see it as a black and white statement. Writing, like speaking, is an art form and if we fail to understand that we can produce vast problems for ourselves and others.

There, I have rattled on long enough. Many, many thanks to the Forum Owner/s and his/her band of hard pressed moderators for all their efforts in providing us all with a fully informative and most useful Forum. Long may it last.

What a cheek indeed !

I just put a post up about a newsletter about NC with no malice or bad publicity in it and it was removed immediately ?

It looks like people sat in the big chairs are flexing their authority somewhat ?

Lottidotti wrote:Elizabeth,Can you explain your point.

Humour !!! A bunch of Goons to replace the others.

Elizabeth,Will you be a bit more specific,is your comment 'a bunch of goons to replace the others' aimed at anyone in particular. It's just with such a generalised comment some people who may be over sensitive may think it is aimed at them.
As it followed my post it would suggest it was aimed at me,If so thank you.I will not be offended because that's exactly what I believe in that no one should be prevented from saying what they think.

Elizabeth....calling people goons is not nice, it's disrespectful!

Angel girl,But they are just words.Its wonderful that people are allowed to air their views.

Lottidotti wrote:Elizabeth,Will you be a bit more specific,is your comment 'a bunch of goons to replace the others' aimed at anyone in particular. It's just with such a generalised comment some people who may be over sensitive may think it is aimed at them.
As it followed my post it would suggest it was aimed at me,If so thank you.I will not be offended because that's exactly what I believe in that no one should be prevented from saying what they think.

It was a bit of fun, nothing more, nothing less, in my opinion the people concerned in this have acted like a bunch of goons.
I think I've lost the will to live.

If you mean the Goon Show folk - I loved them and the word 'goon' wa s not offensive. But language changes I guess over the years. Once3 upon a time I would have been delighted to be called 'gay' but not in the way it is used today!

But thanks to all who are defending Soner. The telephone companies did well over what was not exactly a 'Sweet' Bayram day and due to commitments it was difficult for us all to get to speak over this.

But certain clichés came to my mind, such as 'hoisted by their own petard' , 'digging their own graves' , and we moderators with Soner had to decide how much of that came under the 'right to reply' and 'freedom of speech' all of which is allowsed on the Forumk, but which also started to reveal an insight into the characters of the writers.

It did also provide a contrast for those who had been complaining that the Forum had got boring recently. So where does one go with it?

We also learned a lot of history of a few people that slotted the matter into perspective and having learned that the entertainers in question had fled the country , the matter was most certainly closed.

But I got to thinking 'what is a forum'. Obviously it as different to people as people are different in themselves,s But I thought it was a bit like a local pub. You may have several in your area, and you might even refer to any one of them as 'my bar' although you go maybe only once a year. Or maybe you go frequently, because you like to hear what people are talking about, and every so often join in the conversation yourself. There is a wide choice of drinks at the bar, and you can even abstain from the alcoholic ones and sup coffee or water, whilst other beer drinkers think you are mighty odd. At the end of the day, if your being in that pub causes any offense, the landlord (and staff) have to decide whether your presence is of value to his pub or the regulars/customers who attend. And sometimes has to ban people form attending in the interests of the common good.

And of course if any rioting breaks out, then higher authorities have to be called in!
So, is a pub/bar a Forum. I think it is very similar.
We need to respect our right to read, write, contribute, on many subjects and many levels and to respect all other users. As humans we can get a bit out of control, just like any drunk at a bar who is angry or has had a few too many, but it gets dealt with.

Perhaps someone has a better compariso9n, but for me, that helps me slot in an understanding, and let's remember at this Seker/Sweet Bayram that it is love that makes the world go round. And I am off to a wedding, where some kilt wearers wil be hoping for a knees breeze, and where love will be in the air.

And I hope all of you experience sweetness for the rest of Bayram - especially Soner. I know the HUGE HUGE HUGE problem he has had with an evil minded hacker, so I reckon he needs all the love and support he can get.

Have a good day

Elizabeth,great carry on.But if you have lost the will to live by reading these post read my other post # 18 above.

Well done Soner but I think you should have added Johnny Lee to the list for the malicious intent and subsequent slanderous statements.

Pleased explain for us, Terry. Cos I did not find any. Maybe I was not reading with the same eyes as you. However, we have to remember that nothing is libelous or slanderous if it is true! Not in law, anyway.

Terry2366, I have banned members for personally attacking me or my forum, which has happened before - I do not like it and am sure others would feel the same if it happened to them, especially when we went out our way to allow postings to get their side of the story across. As for other members and so called malicious intent, there is no proof of any of this, and I am not a court judge to decide who instigated it, whether it was planned, or whether it was a hack/hoax picked up on and all gone wrong.

Do not know what you posted, so have ask moderator to fill me in. May be late evening before I get a reply. I have set up new procedures with regards to deleting posts, so that they are not actually deleted but removed temporarily for all moderators to review before deciding what should be best action. It may take a short while for all moderators to adapt to my new instructions.

turtle wrote:What a cheek indeed !

I just put a post up about a newsletter about NC with no malice or bad publicity in it and it was removed immediately ?

It looks like people sat in the big chairs are flexing their authority somewhat ?

Accusing a member of offering massages from a private site and posting it on here which by then had accused them of and I quote " running a knocking shop" both slanderous and libellous.

terry2366 wrote:Accusing a member ....

Hi Terry. May I suggest (with all due respect etc etc) that we 'cut Soner some slack' here ? At the end of the day the threads where JL appears to have posted with 'malicious intent and in a defamatory manner' HAVE been removed. It seems to me Soner has neither the will or desire to be 'judge and jury' on such matters and I can appreciate from his perspective why that is. My personal view would seem to be very similar to yours (in terms of what JL's postings in the now removed threads represented) but it is at the end of the day just that, a personal view. Ultimately no one is qualified to determine as 'fact' what is or is not 'defamatory' in a legal sense other than a judge and jury in a court of law. Not me , not you and not Soner. We can believe such is and I think we can and should have an ability to say we think it and why, which essentially we were allowed to do here. For me at least (and not speaking for anyone else) it is time to 'move on' now.

Soner started this thread with a very clear statement of the situation that all further posts relating to the inital thread topic that started so much discussion will now be finished with posts being removed. No room for any misinterpretation from Soner's statement.
Unfortunately, Terry in particular seems intent on raising the inital thread again, pointing fingers and calling for further action upon individuals. Why not just accept Sonner's statement end of!

Please can someone lock this thread?

A statement has been made by Soner so I am sure there are alot of people reading all this that would wish for people to move on!

I had not realised they had been removed thanks Erol for pointing it and my apologise.

Erol "For me at least (and not speaking for anyone else) it is time to 'move on' now."

Too hot, time for COLD beer and 'move on'. But it has been entertaining ...

squashmad wrote:Please can someone lock this thread?

A statement has been made by Soner so I am sure there are alot of people reading all this that would wish for people to move on!

Agree totally lets get back to where we can find the cheapest Heinz beans or if its raining in Lapta........................................Please don't attack its only said in trying bring levity to the post.

Soner,

Your decision to ban those members attacking the forum was in my opinion 100% correct.

Closing this thread now.

Will open new one called: Cheapest Heinz Baked Beans in TRNC