Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Bearing in mind the legal penalties and the American penchant for litigation, do you think that Volkswagen can stay in business?

Can they afford to buy Red Bull Racing? More to the point....

Just arrogant believe that they are above the law and will get away with it
Well its now caught up with them and what else have they done?

It makes you wonder which other big companies have the same potential to implant spying software in their products?

13roman58 wrote:It makes you wonder which other big companies have the same potential to implant spying software in their products?

I think that all manufacturers - not just car manufacturers - have the potential to do whatever they think that they can get away with.

Whether they are inclined to do so because they are immoral, and think that they can get away with it, is an entirely different question.

As I understand it, the issue was not 'spying' software, they simply made the car capable of modifying its emissions profile if it determined that it was undergoing an emissions test. It did this by detecting various parameters, such as:

Engine speed
Are the drive wheels rotating, while the un-driven wheels are not?
Airflow past the vehicle / air intake

- and no doubt others as well.

However, your post does raise the question of what an un-ethical manufacturer might want to include in their vehicles' software...

But that is going well off the topic - what I am interested in is whether Volkswagen will survive - either as a Company, or as a Brand name, and remember that their brands include Bugatti, Bentley, Lamborghini, Seat & Skoda.

Keith, at a potential fine of 37.500 dollars per car in USA alone = 18,000 billon dollars, I think they could be on a very sticky financial wicket. What beats me is how they thought they could get away with it. They can't be the only ones playing around under the bonnet, as it were, can they? Maybe next year I can buy a Bentley with sufficient Indirim to suit my pocket!!

sophie wrote:Keith, at a potential fine of 37.500 dollars per car in USA alone = 18,000 billon dollars, I think they could be on a very sticky financial wicket...

...And that's only the fines! - I can see individuals who have bought cars suing the pants off 'em, plus, all the cars will have to be withdrawn / recalled. Dealers may go bust because they either haven't any stock, or no one wants to buy the stock that they have - they'll be suing as well...

It doesn't take much to dent consumer confidence, let alone finding out that the manufacturer deliberately set out to cheat you and fool the emissions testers, thereby breaking the law - the mind boggles!

Of course, it could all be a Chinese 'hacking' set up

Just watched The Armstrong Lie about him cheating to win 7 tour de frances did he break the rules yes were all the other teams cheating with epo transfusions growth hormone etc yes .so it was a fair race for cheats
For the uk co2 / mpg tests the cars are "stripped down" so that they perform better and the actual test cannot be recreated on the road
All they give you is a comparison of the manufacturers pulling the same tricks especially on the hybrid vehicles where the battery does not perform on the open road as it does on a rolling road

The answer probably is 'Does America wish them to survive???'
If the Gulf oil spill is anything to go by where everyone knew that Joe Public's claims were bogus/fraudulent they will be in for a rough ride.
The Grupen Fuhrer, Mrs M, will no doubt get involved.
I suspect VW can survive but they may have to sell off some marques. No F1 I wouldn't think?

Is it actually against US law? If the measures VW have taken to ensure passing low emission tests are not specifically mentioned in law then the US Gov can change the laws to make it illegal - but that would not be retrospective.

VW just said could be up to 11 million car, with this problem, would you like shares in VW at the moment don't think so.

Rules are rules and business is business!!!
VW have been caught cheating and will pay the price. However they will come to some agreement with the US government!

Just look back to the problem Toyota had with the braking issue a few years back. They are still trading??

VW has broken a law, not caused the death ( at least directly as yet )
The computer software ( ECU ) can be rewritten, just like remapping quickly to resolve the issue.

Think I'll pop into my local VW garage this weekend and see if they have any bargains.....

gid58 wrote:...The computer software ( ECU ) can be rewritten, just like remapping quickly to resolve the issue.

The problem would then be that when the vehicles are tested, the emissions would be seen to be too high - that's what the software was concealing. The vehicles were nowhere near as 'clean' as VW claimed in their advertising blurb... - as I understand it, it was partly because the test bureau performed additional tests while the vehicles were actually being driven on the road that the 'cheat' became apparent.

A few points:-

The 11 million is worldwide not US - in US about 500,000

Only diesel cars are affected and only 3% of all American cars are diesel .. but including some Audis made by VW

Some of the affected cars are actually emitting 40 times the legal US level of nitogen oxide despite passing the emissions tests

VW were in the middle of a big sales drive for diesels and extolling the low emissions levels

Keithcaley wrote:

gid58 wrote:...The computer software ( ECU ) can be rewritten, just like remapping quickly to resolve the issue.

The problem would then be that when the vehicles are tested, the emissions would be seen to be too high - that's what the software was concealing. The vehicles were nowhere near as 'clean' as VW claimed in their advertising blub..

I had a chip box on my VW scirocco TDi Bluemotion back in the UK. The programming ment there was better performance, better fuel efficiency, which in turn means lower emissions.

Check this ulr http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk

gid58, yes I hear what you're saying, if that is the case, then it makes you wonder why they took such a risk (of being caught) instead of refining the engineering and the software to achieve the same result...

Breaking news: #Volkswagen "needs a fresh start" says company as CEO Martin Winterkorn quits over emissions scandal
4:14 PM - 23 Sep 2015

Re post 17 by Keithcaley might be something to do with saving cost / profit for shareholders ??

Switzerland has now banned the sale of VW diesel cars and many other countries are investigating VW diesels.

wanderer wrote:Breaking news: #Volkswagen "needs a fresh start" says company as CEO Martin Winterkorn quits over emissions scandal
4:14 PM - 23 Sep 2015

Don't worry too much about him, he will need a VW van to cart off his golden goodbye.

well it appears that a lot of car manufactures have been doing the same!

happy feet wrote:well it appears that a lot of car manufactures have been doing the same!

That's interesting, what is the source of your information? - Could you post a 'link' please?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... iency.html

Specially prepared cars for the test over inflated tyres taped doors and joint etc

wanderer wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... iency.html

Specially prepared cars for the test over inflated tyres taped doors and joint etc

I see, the same, only different...

There's obviously more than one way to skin a cat...

Groucho wrote:Is it actually against US law? If the measures VW have taken to ensure passing low emission tests are not specifically mentioned in law then the US Gov can change the laws to make it illegal - but that would not be retrospective.

I think that this answers that question

The EPA has issued Volkswagen a Notice of Violation, saying that the software functions as a defeat device, as prohibited by the US Clean Air Act. The company has apologized for the action and is facing legal proceedings, regulatory investigations, and class action lawsuits in multiple countries

http://www.epw.senate.gov/envlaws/cleanair.pdf

This is the law.... I foresee lots of shennaigans over loopholes

Groucho wrote:http://www.epw.senate.gov/envlaws/cleanair.pdf

This is the law.... I foresee lots of shennaigans over loopholes

Lots of what?

Keithcaley wrote:

Groucho wrote:http://www.epw.senate.gov/envlaws/cleanair.pdf

This is the law.... I foresee lots of shennaigans over loopholes

Lots of what?

you heard..... a new word meaning Keith's caught me again....