Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Well, I've heard it all now !!!!!
I read on facebook that a man who was in hospital,in RAF uniform, was asked to move in case he offended other
patients.
I replied that it must be a scam, as surely he would be in his jammies.
The answer came back that this did actually happen in Margate.

My flabber is well and truly gasted, what the ............. is happening to our world, and more specific, the UK ?

There are too many people who say that to do this or wear that will offend, but it does not matter that they are offending us and neglecting our heritage and our way of life.

Surely the time as come where we should stand up and be firm about the British persons rights and beliefs and to say if this offends then we are sorry but you are welcome to leave.

This is my local hospital and more publicity over the way it's run is not what is needed and certainly not for the soldier who found himself in the middle of it, when all he wanted was treatment.



http://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news ... ult-43820/

Frankly, I am sick to death of people who are just dying to "take offence".

Equally bad are those who, as in this example, wanted to prevent someone taking offence.

I would have told them to go to hell if I had been there when it happened!

I think he was a RAF SNCO, so hardly a 'soldier.' I would agree with the poster who stated he should have stood up to official who asked him to move and both refused to do so and complained there and then to the hospital management. I wonder if the person telling him to move wore any uniform.

When I first read the threat I assumed the man was in (to one of my generation and background) instantly recognizable and respected RAF blue,

However the picture shows a very fit young man in camouflage combat fatigues, and unless one picks up on the shoulder flash, no indication of membership of official armed forces, let alone which county or service. In the current climate of phobia and suspicion I think I can understand that some people, particularly if ill and already shocked and frightened , might find it a little scary. I think the problem hinges on the word "offensive" and that the situation was not handled tactfully.

Anyway I hope the young man received good treatment and is now on the road to full recovery - no one seems to have reported on that aspect.

I do hope that all the doctors and nurses were in civilian clothing and not wearing those offensive white coats - the same as the wear in the butchers!!! Horror, shock, offensive it would have been. Remember when the Great British Government made the decision that no member of the armed forces was allowed to wear uniform of the base they were on? Nobody moaned then so why now?

what has the fact that he is a senior non commissioned officer got to do with the treatment he received. He was wearing the Queens' uniform whilst working?, and ''hardly a soldier!!!!'' I no of no one who, whilst injured, would go home and change before going to hospital for treatment.

Dolarkat, I'm not sure if I've understood your post re. the hospital not needing this publicity. Surely this type of incident should be
publicised and shamed.
God help us if we if there was ever another world war, where would they be able to take 'our boys'' for hospital treatment without offending anyone?

Msg 8. If he is in the RAF, he is an airman - ergo, not a soldier, which is a term defining a member of the Army. Whatever service he was/is a member of, his management by this hospital is deplorable. He required clinical treatment, not a lesson in failed political correctness. The Hospital may wish this to go away, but Joe public should name, shame and demand remedial action to prevent further incidents such as this.

Flowerfairy, the reason I said that it is the last thing now this hospital needs is that we are/could be about to lose this hospital, especially the A&E department to other areas that most of the locals will not be able to get to. So this incident is now another nail in the coffin to give excuses to anyone or everyone that wants to see this hospital closed or moved. I have 2 appointments at this hospital on the next 2 weeks and I would like this hospital to remain open.

Of course it should be in the public domain of what has happened here but what I am saying from our(locals) point of view is could not have come at a worse time and I hope that those involved are reprimanded about it and even more those that are running this hospital at the present time are chucked out for the reasons I have given.

That's a pretty racist comment, Jacob. Not all Muslims come from Pakistan! Britain is now populated by many nationalities.
We are foreigners here in North Cyprus and we and our beliefs are accepted and tolerated, even if some of our habits are offensive to the locals.
Having said that, it is offensive for a British airman, in his own country, wearing DPM combats as his work attire, to be victimised by the PC brigade in a hospital or any other public place. It will breed resentment and lead to further acts of racism as locals themselves become offended that their culture is being diluted.
In previous years servicemen couldn't wear their uniforms off base but for their own safety. Remember the shooting by the IRA of three young squaddies, in uniform on Lichfield station?

Good grief Jacob, are you Alf Garnett ???????

Yes, I remember the IRA shootings - I also remember how low the moral of the forces fell when they were told they could not wear their uniforms off base. We did not join so we could hide, we were/are proud of our uniforms, we expect to be treated as targets by the IRA and such, yet we still want to wear the uniform that we proudly wear. They were not banned for the safety of the servicemen, they were banned so that the Government could say they took action! Health and Safety can only go so far - otherwise in WW1 the troop would have all had to have a brief about the nasty and dangerous bullets that might hit them if they did not be careful - stupidity.

Sorry, rant over, I remember those times well and it still stings, I also remember that we were allowed to wear uniforms during the fireman's strike and that was just as dangerous!!!

Service personnel wore their uniforms during the strikes organised by fire fighters, petrol tanker drivers, waste disposal operatives et al. How many civilians were upset by the sight of uniformed Service personnel taking on these tasks during these times and usually for far less pay than those on strike.

My poor deceased father must be turning in his grave he was an RAF officer and proudly wore his uniform albeit rather tattered on the day he was released from a prisoner of war camp in Poland where he had been kept by the germans for three years. He went to hell and back so that these do gooders could get a life of freedom.

Panochat, it may be a bit racist but sadly it is true.

I wonder what would have been the response if a lady came into the hospital wearing a Burqa? My bet NOTHING.

Sorry slightly off topic, but here, I believe the squaddies ,etc off duty cannot wear their uniforms, so they don't upset the tourists!!!!!

I hardly know what to say about this incident.
Apparently some of the dialogue went ''we have different cultures here....'' which is why the RAF guy had to move to a separate room. Frankly this whole multi cultural thing has gone far to far. Whose bloody country is it?
The UK is still a predominantly christian, white country with lots of odd coloured people who have arrived from various parts of the globe for a better life. They should be told in no uncertain terms that we have our own culture and that if they want to live in the UK they must and will observe our cultural mores. By all means pray to whatever dodgy gods they subscribe to but they must not be able to change the essential culture of the UK.
If they don't like it, then the answer is simple, bugger off to somewhere else. We don't need these people, they need us and our wonderful benefit system/health service/ etc
No wonder I don't ever want to return to the UK. It's notthe one I left many years ago.
Thanks to governments over the last fifty years for ruining my country.
The next person who tells me that all this immigration has enriched the UK will find himself in need of serious medical insurance.

Well, I can only speak for my self and my family. I wore my uniform with pride, even outside the camp. I wasn't even aware that
it was forbidden to wear it whilst off duty,in the latter years. I was probably too busy working in civvie street providing for my family.
What I do know, is that my , then, 21 year old nephew, whom I'd told to join up, to endure a service to which he'd be proud of, actually lost a leg in Afghanistan.
I can tell you now, if they'd have moved him to a place where he wouldn't have offended someone,in his uniform, I would probably be doing time now.
I hasten to add, in a place where I would get everything that I could desire. Sports facilities to die for, tv all day long, the facilities to do a degree. Not like an oap's home, where they sit in piddly knickers all day long.!!!!!

Richard Littlejohn in the Daily Mail today sums it up nicely I feel. How many of these immigrants have joined the British Armed services and would be willing to make the ultimate sacrifice.

I remember seeing a huge advertising hoarding on the Blackfriars railway bridge in the City about 20 years ago.
It showed about 15 children, of every hue, even including one white one. The slogan ''Together We Are Making Britain Great' Excuse me, I really think we have a truly Great Britain long before the advent of mass immigration from the West Indies, Africa and Asia. Damn cheek!

I fear it's all too late to do much about the rot.

just to put this in perspective: -

The hospital has apologised.

The request to move was not in line with hospital policy.

No immigrant or person from an 'ethnic' group said that they objected to seeing the serviceman in uniform.

The action appears to have been instigated by a misguided member of staff. (who, I sincerely hope, was given a 'rocket )

It seems to me that there is a section of the 'Politically Correct' brigade who sit around, imagining scenarios in which immigrants or others just 'might' be offended - only, they never seem to bother actually asking them if they would be offended!

Years ago, when I lived near Birmingham, the Council expressed fears that Asian shopkeepers might be offended by having to sell 'Instant Win Lottery scratchcards' which had a little 'piggy' logo on them.

I asked the owner of the local corner shop if he would be offended.

He pointed to the chiller cabinet, full of pork pies, bacon, and sausage rolls, and said "Just because I don't eat them, doesn't mean that I'm offended by selling them".

'Nuff said

jackvern wrote:How many of these immigrants have joined the British Armed services and would be willing to make the ultimate sacrifice.

As of 2010 ethnic minorities made up 9.4% of the British Army vs about 8% in total UK population or 12% of the working population. The figures are worse for the Air Force and the Navy but that it seems to me is more down to those institutions than ethnic minorities. These figures do not include entire 'ethnic' regiments like the Gurkhas.

In world war 2 approximately 500,000 Africans, more than 7,000 Caribbean people, and a total of 2.5 million Indians fought for Britain during the Second World War, approx 500,000 of which were muslim (this was an India that includes what is today Pakistan and Bangladesh).

I remember in Birmingham a few years back where the decided not to call it Christmas but "Winterval" so as not to upset certain members of the community, we became the laughing stock of the country .......sorry if I have gone off topic

Keithcaley wrote:just to put this in perspective: -

The hospital has apologised.

The request to move was not in line with hospital policy.

No immigrant or person from an 'ethnic' group said that they objected to seeing the serviceman in uniform.

The action appears to have been instigated by a misguided member of staff. (who, I sincerely hope, was given a 'rocket )

It seems to me that there is a section of the 'Politically Correct' brigade who sit around, imagining scenarios in which immigrants or others just 'might' be offended - only, they never seem to bother actually asking them if they would be offended!

Years ago, when I lived near Birmingham, the Council expressed fears that Asian shopkeepers might be offended by having to sell 'Instant Win Lottery scratchcards' which had a little 'piggy' logo on them.

I asked the owner of the local corner shop if he would be offended.

He pointed to the chiller cabinet, full of pork pies, bacon, and sausage rolls, and said "Just because I don't eat them, doesn't mean that I'm offended by selling them".

'Nuff said

Keith, sometimes an apology is just not enough. We can all tell of personal experiences with individuals, the collective is rather different.

rosiesmidge wrote:I remember in Birmingham a few years back where the decided not to call it Christmas but "Winterval" so as not to upset certain members of the community, we became the laughing stock of the country .......sorry if I have gone off topic

You remember the myth. Here is the truth.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/media/42231/my ... mits-error

A more general article about the 'phoney war on christmas' here

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/d ... ommunities

I lived in Brum all my life I remember it well also the council coming on the local news station ( ITV Central Tonight) trying to explain it..... everyone you spoke to was laughing about

rosiesmidge wrote:I lived in Brum all my life I remember it well also the council coming on the local news station ( ITV Central Tonight) trying to explain it..... everyone you spoke to was laughing about

They never changed or tried to change the name of Christmas to Winterval - that is just not true. They (over 15 years ago now) set up a series of events that covered a range of different festivals INCLUDING christmas in order to try and promote Birmingham and put all those festivals and other events under a name of winteval. To claim that they tried to rename Christmas to Winterval is just a gross distortion of the truth. Still it is a distortion that suits a narrative that 'foreigners' or those pandering to 'foreigners' are destroying British traditions.

Erol
not forthe first time you are talking nonsense.
you with a foot in several camps have no idea what native British people think

Spend your energy and ideas on the Cyprob which you have some knowledge of. As for how the Brits see the immigration crisis, You have no idea.

I just wish you wouldn't post your stuff on here as if it is somehow God's Truth. You are just another person with his/her perjudices trying to convince the rest of us that you are right. You quote all sorts of stats which most people don't query. All I know is that the UK wouldbe a better place without the millions of immigrants from all over the globe who don't make any effort to integrate but end up living in ghettos that native whites are not welcome. Simple answer to that. Get rid of them.

My father 35 years RAF,me 5years RN,my son servıng ın Brıtısh Army......me so appalled at hospıtal treatment of that servıng RAF man.Are we not at war wıth Mıddle East countrıes?He should have prıorıty treatment,not treated lıke a second class cıtızen

trooper wrote:Erol

As for how the Brits see the immigration crisis, You have no idea.

I was born in Britain to an English mother and TC father, and lived my entire life there until I came to live in Cyprus 12 years ago. I am as British as anyone and as entitled to my opinions as anyone as well as entitled to quote facts. If that upsets you well then I am sorry.

trooper wrote:I just wish you wouldn't post your stuff on here as if it is somehow God's Truth. You are just another person with his/her perjudices trying to convince the rest of us that you are right. You quote all sorts of stats which most people don't query.

I post facts. If you want the sources of the figures used above you only have to ask for them - I will happily provide them. But let's be honest here, actual factual figures are not going to change your prejudices are they ?

trooper wrote: All I know is that the UK wouldbe a better place without the millions of immigrants from all over the globe who don't make any effort to integrate but end up living in ghettos that native whites are not welcome. Simple answer to that. Get rid of them.

Would North Cyprus be better without the thousands of immigrants that have come here to live ? What effort have you made to integrate HERE - have you learnt Turkish yet ? My father was an immigrant to the UK. This was the 'ghetto' we lived in http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for ... enden.html. Anyone with enough money was welcome there believe me.

Going off topic but the original winter festival in Britain was called "Yule" and was a pagan festival originating in Germany and Scandanavia to celebrate the winter solstice.. When Christianity was introduced to Britain - when it was part of the Roman Empire -to celebrate the Birth of Christ in the Middle East (no know exactly what time of year but doubtful if it was snowing!) the pagan festival and its dates were taken over. Traditions such as holly and mistletoe go back to the pagan Druids and the Christmas Tree was introduced by the German consort of Queen Victoria. Eating and drinking too much is also a throw back to the pagan festival.

It is not other cultures , nor political correctness, that have devalued the true meaning of Christmas, or ruined other "British "traditions, it is commercialisation,

Erol,

Excellent response at Msg 33. In my opinion, you were spot on.

PB

I fully agree with the above post.
On many occasions I have found Erol's to be the sole voice of reason, which prevents me from despairing of some of the responses on such threads as these.
I, too, was irritated by the treatment of this person, but it was seemingly caused by the foolishness of one individual, and is not hospital or state policy.
I feel some of the reaction here and elsewhere has been disproportionate and racist.

I too agree with post 33 and 35 and 36. The trouble is the Press blows issues such as this up for their own political ends, or just to sell more papers, and those who do not in any case let anything as simple as the facts stand in the way of their prejudices start a witch hunt. With regard to some of the comments - To quote (allegedly) a great British hero from an earlier conflict "I dont know what effect these men have on the enemy, but By God they terrify me"

But I still do not see that the man was recognisably a member of the British forces let alone wearing the "Queen's uniform". He was in camouflage which is worn by lots of people including most of the World's armies and big game hunters and could well cause alarm.

I wonder if the hospital have a policy regarding patients in uniform - what about Police and Traffic Wardens for instance?

msge 37 RaggedRobin
I can scarcely believe what I am reading. Why on earth in a civilised country like the UK should a man in an Armed Forces uniform cause alarm. The UK isn't some sort of third world country where uniform equates to repression......How many other countries soldiers wonder around the UK in their 'combats', not many I guess.

Our armed forces have been a force for good within the UK for as long as I remember. Hiding them in some sort of private room in hospitals because 'other cultures' do not like to see them is a sure sign that things have gone far too far in the wrong direction.If people from other cultures don't want to see our soldiiers/sailors/airmen in uniform then the answer is obvious.

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You do not believe what you are reading, because you are reading what you want to , not what is actually said. I am not condoning the action of the Hospital employee as reported - far from it and I do agree that sometimes "political correctness goes too far and does more damage than it is supposed to prevent - but I do feel that the very limited information we have about the incident leaves a lot of questions, and one of them is how many people would actually recognise what this man was wearing as the uniform of a member of the BRITISH forces.

Cant you understand that anyone who has been in a combat area might be traumatised by ANY military - or para military uniform. and not stop to think what country it represented,, particularly if it was not clearly identified. Admittedly it was a long time since I was inthe UK but even when I was living near Airforce bases I dont recall seeing anyone in camouflage fatigues and very few in full RAF Blue uniform walking around so that even the native British population was not necessarily familiar with it.

What constitutes a "civilised" country is a matter of opinion, but surely no one can argue that the UK is hardly a totally safe one.

Two wrongs do not make a right, and you last paragraph is as insulting as the alleged action about which you are complaining.