Russia/Turkey issue

brian24001 · Post by **brian24001** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 4:11 pm

This might put a bit of a dampener on the numbers of Russian property purchaser for a while:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34933608

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 4:45 pm

Hey Ho, pop goes the Lira!!!!!!

Makum · Post by **Makum** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 4:48 pm

Could also see a major decline in Russian tourists in both Turkey and the TRNC, seems Putin is well aware of the Turkish governments double dealing, we have yet to see his reaction to the shooting down of the Russian aircraft but can't see him pussyfooting about like western governments he will go straight for Turkey's throat, as ole Nigel Farage said, don't poke a stick at the Russian bear you will get more than you bargained for

johnny1 · Post by **johnny1** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 5:00 pm

what are everybodys thoughts about this incident?whos in the right and wrong do you think?
answers here not a postcard
im with the russians on this one

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 5:24 pm

Six of one and half a dozen of the other; however, as to "don't poke a stick at the Russian bear...", they have been doing their fair share of poking around the world - consider, Georgia, the Crimea and Ukraine; just note how many times recently their aircraft have been pushing the UK boundaries...
Putin has been polishing his macho image for quite while now.

Owl Lady · Post by **Owl Lady** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 5:47 pm

Sorry to disagree Johnny 1, but shouldn't the Russians have headed the warning. How can they say they never got it??

johnny1 · Post by **johnny1** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 5:52 pm

owl lady...even if they did...we all make mistakes..the planes carried no missiles and ok...the blew up the plane...
did they have to shoot and kill the pilot that parachuted from the plane?

Fesenjan123 · Post by **Fesenjan123** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 6:09 pm

Never thought I would say this but I'm with the Russian on this one. I bet the Greeks have lost count of the times Turkey has violated their airspace. Erdogan himself was enraged in 2012 when a Turkish jet was shot down for violating Syrian airspace. His stated " "A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," He's obviously got a very short memory.
At least the Russians are the only ones who are intent on wiping Isis off the face of the earth. The U.S. Has been pretending to do it for the past four years but they just want them " contained" so they can carrying on fighting against Assad. The Turks are also pretending to target Isis when in reality they are just after the Kurds, and are quite happy for Isis to carry on as it suits their agenda.

Interesting note: when I went to type Erdogan my predictive text wrote ' egocentric'.

Anyway, if the Russians pull of out TRNC all is not lost. All those newly built empty shops in Catalkoy can be made into kennels for the stray dogs.

cjtill · Post by **cjtill** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 7:06 pm

While everyone is squabling about who was\was not to blame, IS are laughing their socks off (assuming they wear them).
Reminds me of The Judean Peoples Front from the film" Life of Brian" where instead of fighting their enemy (The Romans) they consider The Peoples Front of Judea as their real enemy.
Michael.

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 7:08 pm

johnny1 wrote:..the planes carried no missiles....
the Russian Su-24, an all-weather attack aircraft.....President Putin ... said the jet had been carrying out "preventative attacks" against IS in Latakia - without missiles?

...did they (?) have to shoot and kill the pilot that parachuted from the plane?.....
Rebels from Syria's ethnic Turkmen community, whose villages Turkey said had been bombed by Russian aircraft in recent weeks, opened fire at the crew as they tried to parachute into government-held territory.

mikelapta · Post by **mikelapta** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 7:42 pm

The Turks have submitted voice recordings of the warnings,and radar of where the event took place.The Russians have submitted no proof.
If it got on a war footing,the Russians have only 1 port which they can use all year round(and winter is here) in the Crimea,Ukraine...another not healthy place to be.....and to move ships from there,through the Black Sea.....and the Bosphorus at Istanbul.
I think Mr.Putin will have to play down his pilot's errors.....Inshallah

Makum · Post by **Makum** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 9:22 pm

Next step I can see Putin arming the Kurds with ground to air missiles if he hasn't already, Turkey has to many fingers in the mixing pot, not to come out of this with a bloody nose, if Russia increases the heat, and Turkey expects NATO to jump in I think they will be in for a shock, NATO IS A TOOTHLESS TIGER.
it will be the covert ops that will turn the knife into the stomach of the Turks, just hope the "ooops" doesn't hit the fan here.

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 9:30 pm

He has constantly violated airspace all over Europe over the last few years and needs to be stopped http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 51309.html

He only bullies week opponents and might get a bloody nose if he picks a fight with Turkey as they are no mugs and wont stand for Putins shenanigans.

I say well done Turkey for standing up to an out of control bully.

mrsgee · Post by **mrsgee** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 10:42 pm

Spot on Turtle....Putin is an aggressive 'leader' and always has been. Of course, the rescued pilot is going to say he had no warnings and did not violate airspace...what else is he going to say....oh yes, hands up, I popped over, and they told me to back off and I didn't.....at the end of the day, the fact is Russia and Turkey back two opposing sides in Syria, so, it was always an incident waiting to happen,....for whatever reason. There is a lot of 'posturing' at the moment..which will unfortunately only be detrimental to normal folks....just my opinion of course.

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Thu 26 Nov 2015 11:43 pm

turtle wrote:He has constantly violated airspace all over Europe over the last few years and needs to be stopped http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 51309.html....

- as I referred to in my earlier post, but to support my 6/half-dozen comment -

mikelapta wrote:The Turks have submitted voice recordings of the warnings,and radar of where the event took place...

- with today's technology, any and all "evidence" can be concocted and created...
As Mandy Rice Davis was famously misquoted, "He would say that, wouldn't he?...."
The "official" Russian newspaper was named Pravda (Truth) - "Truth" was, is, and always will be a very flexible concept - imperatively so amongst politicians and governments....

SpongeDiver · Post by **SpongeDiver** » Fri 27 Nov 2015 6:12 am

Anyone who has been closely following political events in Turkey should know where to apportion blame for this SU 24 incident!

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Fri 27 Nov 2015 6:51 am

Truth!!! The first casualty of war!

I am with the Turks - no wishy washy "Peace in our time" bit of paper waving, no forming a committee to decide if they would upset anyone if they sent a "strongly worded" complaint to the Russian Ambassador.
The Turks are the only ones who have provided any evidence - regardless of how true it may be - the Russians have done what they always do, threaten, attempt to bully, complain to the world that they have been misjudged. Turkey protects its borders and if they are to keep their borders then they will continue to protect them. Good for them.

sophie · Post by **sophie** » Fri 27 Nov 2015 8:39 am

Oh well, its starting to hit home. Largest travel agent in Russia has stopped selling holidays in Turkey (over 3.5million last year) other smaller companies bound to follow very soon I guess. Surely that will affect here, lets face it, just the word Turkey in our name will have the same meaning to Russians. Seems laughable when they also announced that NO further tomatoes will be imported from Turkey (apparently Turkeys largest customer) and as to oil and gas, it looks if Putin might shut those down as well if they go via Turkey.

jacob · Post by **jacob** » Fri 27 Nov 2015 9:00 am

Russia is right to be furious with Turkey, the Russians are the only ones seriously trying to sort Syria out. Erdogan has been waiting to take a Russian jet out, he is livid that the Russians aren't bombing the Kurdish Women who are fighting while the young fit and healthy men of Syria are fleeing, cowardly people.

Why do the West try to force democracy in the Middle East, they are not ready for civilised living. We destroyed Iraq and Libya and now we want to do the same in Syria, these countries need Dictators to keep the warring factions under control, when will we learn to butt out of the Middle East.

Erdogan is a dictator, just remember that.

frontalman · Post by **frontalman** » Fri 27 Nov 2015 9:40 am

This is another step in the weakening of Russian prowess and their economy following on from the International sanctions. Any economic measures they hit Turkey with will affect the Russian economy also. They are rattled because like any bully they are not used to being stood up to. I think there is desperation on the Russian side, they are running out of friends in the West and they must strive to maintain their superpower status. The Americans will be secretly delighted with Turkey's response, they will also have been informed that it was likely to happen if they continued to test out Turkey's resolve.

petronemma · Post by **petronemma** » Fri 27 Nov 2015 2:38 pm

I am also with Turkey on this one, Russians have been invading their airspace on numerous occasions and look at the other week when they (russians) locked on target onto the turkish jet? they were warned and still have been carrying on stirring things up. good on the turks for not giving in, that jet issued a warning and surely evidence can prove this. IMO and others may not agree i feel that Putin isn't to be trusted. if he genuinely is on side with other countries trying to take sown ISIS then WHY is he violating everyone else airspace? he done the same in the UK. like i say not everyone will agree and this is just my opinion and i respect any ones opinions.

David · Post by **David** » Fri 27 Nov 2015 2:51 pm

Surely there must be evidence to back things up one way or another regarding wether air space was intruded on albeit for only 17 seconds, how come no evidence has been forthcoming so far ?

jamboree · Post by **jamboree** » Fri 27 Nov 2015 4:19 pm

Mr Putin seems to forget about Malaysian airlines mh17 shot down in eastern Ukraine. Western nations have long accused Russia-backed rebels fighting in the area of shooting down the plane. The Kremlin continues to deny the claims, placing the blame on the Ukrainian military instead. He is a war monger and bully wants to show his strength to the world. He is in Syria for his own gain and profit. The west and nato should have gone in and taken control of Syria situation long ago. Syria will be flattened and many more innocent dead and lots more refugees flooding in to Europe.

PapaBravo · Post by **PapaBravo** » Fri 27 Nov 2015 6:05 pm

Surely there must be evidence to back things up one way or another regarding whether air space was intruded on albeit for only 17 seconds, how come no evidence has been forthcoming so far ?

You can be sure that a US AWACS aircraft would have been 'on station' and would have recorded the exact flight path of the Russian aircraft. Already released, is the tape of the Turkish controller telling the Russian jet that he was headed for Turkish airspace and ordering him to turn south immediately. There can be no doubt that the Russian pilot heard the message, as it was broadcast on 'Guard Frequency', which all aviators monitor, regardless of what frequency they have selected on their radios.

David · Post by **David** » Fri 27 Nov 2015 7:12 pm

Lets hope that diplomacy wins the day otherwise all hell could break loose.

jacob · Post by **jacob** » Fri 27 Nov 2015 8:48 pm

Just a little convenient that film crews were right in position to film the jet being shot down, oh and the rebel with the surface to air missile just happened to have his weapon on the tripod ready to shoot the pilot parachuting down. Jeez some of you are so gullible.

This was a put up job, who buys the oil off of ISIL, Turkey, what have the Russians just bombed, the oil trucks,hmmmmmmm

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Fri 27 Nov 2015 10:03 pm

jacob wrote:J.......Jeez some of you are so gullible.....

karmels · Post by **karmels** » Fri 27 Nov 2015 10:35 pm

jacob.
Read the news, the Russian plane was shot down by a Turkish F16. Who had followed this plane and given the warnings.
This is free to listen to on the internet.

terry2366 · Post by **terry2366** » Sat 28 Nov 2015 1:39 pm

You make me laugh sometimes Jakob Erdogan a dictator what about the Assad family they have been tyrants for decades and killing their own people. Remember the chemical weapons inspectors not allowed in till he had moved it ,the barrel bombs on the markets?. Putin the great and the rebels not shooting down a warplane but a bloody airliner. Wake up mate it's Saturday.

jacob · Post by **jacob** » Sat 28 Nov 2015 3:57 pm

terry, my name is JaCob. Btw, comma's can be a useful tool when replying, it makes reading posts a lot easier.

mikelapta · Post by **mikelapta** » Sat 28 Nov 2015 5:23 pm

Don't panic,Bey Erdoğan has sort of apologised.Best Putin will get.......this time anyway.

A little personal revelant story,in 1960's ; was flying an aircraft in the Fleet Air Arm from Malta.(a horrible 2 engıne propellor Sea Prince) on a navigation course.But also checkıng any ships were not discharging oil..A tanker was spotted doing this,so fly low to get name....it was Russian !!!As we flew past bridge,sailor spotted firing rifle at my aircraft.....Anyway got to base and reported.A few days later,Russian paper 'Pravda'reported that their tanker had been buzzed by French bombers !!!
Maybe Russian Forces think if Red,White,Blue.....same country ?

David · Post by **David** » Mon 30 Nov 2015 8:00 pm

Now that the Russians have banned charter flights to turkey how will they get to their holiday homes over here ?

SpongeDiver · Post by **SpongeDiver** » Tue 01 Dec 2015 5:54 am

Won't they just be able to fly to Bucharest/Larnaca? Might be cheaper than Ercan!

sophie · Post by **sophie** » Tue 01 Dec 2015 8:40 am

Speaking to a Russian who works for the main Travel agency dealing with Russian tourists here, said that not touching down in Turkey should not deter them, so perhaps she meant your suggestion SpongeDiver. Quite how it will affect package holidays I don't know.

tomsteel · Post by **tomsteel** » Tue 01 Dec 2015 2:29 pm

A few years ago, I agree. However, did the Russians not shoot out of the sky a South Korean civilian aircraft overflying its territory near Vladivostok? Then a Malaysian Airlines civilian jet overflying Ukraine was downed by a Russian-made missile quite recently. Hundreds of innocents killed by the 'Great Bear'.

jamboree · Post by **jamboree** » Tue 01 Dec 2015 4:17 pm

Tom steel yes mh11 Malaysia airlines. But it is ok when the Bears kills innocents. It seems to have been all swept under the carpet for now. The present situation seems like a big game of words at what point will it all end? And at what cost?

Makum · Post by **Makum** » Tue 01 Dec 2015 4:27 pm

Bottom line, we are now seeing the results of Bush and Blairs monumental blunder in getting involved in the Middle East, these people need ruthless dictators to rule over them, the west has for it's own reasons removed the only controlling influence they had in the region ., gadaffi, Sadam, Mubarak, all toppled in west supported rebellions. The Syrian affair did not follow the plan so the Yanks had to build an Army to do their dirty work, chickens are now coming home to roost.
Russia is now actively arming the Kurds, so we can expect Turkey to up its game, can only see the situation getting worse, and the fallout is more terrorist attacks aimed at Europe and the west. Teflon Tony has got a lot to answer for.

Dalartokat · Post by **Dalartokat** » Wed 02 Dec 2015 5:02 pm

President Erdogan and his family have been accused by Russian Defence Ministry of being involved in Isil oil smuggling over the border. Erdogan has said he would resign if the Russians can prove he is involved in oil coming from Isil into Turkey. Russian Defence Ministry says Turkey is the main destination for oil stolen by Isis in Iraq and Syria. Russian Defence Ministry can provide satelite images showing Isil oil smuggled to Turkey.

This is being broadcast as breaking news by RT(Russia Today) news.

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Wed 02 Dec 2015 6:32 pm

Dalartokat wrote:.....Russian Defence Ministry can provide satelite images showing Isil oil smuggled to Turkey.....

I wonder whether they've been Photoshopped....?

waddo · Post by **waddo** » Wed 02 Dec 2015 6:47 pm

Fantastic what they can do with satellites these days but NOT apparently able to capture pictures of Russian planes over flying Turkey!!

Dalartokat · Post by **Dalartokat** » Wed 02 Dec 2015 7:20 pm

Russia provided the satellite images after Erdogan accused Russia of slandering Turkey

https://www.rt.com/news/324303-isis-oil-routes-turkey/.

Makum · Post by **Makum** » Wed 02 Dec 2015 9:20 pm

Well known Erdogan is double dealing for the benifit of his family, unfortunately even though the west are well aware of it, no one dare say sod all.
I'd prefer to give a hand to Putin than a double dealing corrupt dog.

Makum · Post by **Makum** » Thu 03 Dec 2015 7:58 am

Breaking news, Turkey blocking Russian ship movements from Black Sea to Med via Bosphous, not yet out on western media , this can only ratchet up tension between the Turks n Russians. Could be time to shake the dust off the tin hats.

SpongeDiver · Post by **SpongeDiver** » Thu 03 Dec 2015 8:21 am

The Yanks, on Wednesday, flatly rejected Russian allegations that the Turkish government was in league with ISIL [DAESH] militants to smuggle oil from Syria. State Department Mark Toner told a news briefing that US information was that ISIL was selling oil at wellheads to middlemen, who in turn were involved in smuggling oil across the frontier into Turkey. 'We reject outright the premise that the Turkish government is in league with ISIL to smuggle oil across its borders. We frankly see no evidence, none to support such an accusation.'

Allegedly, it's not only oil 'importation' involved, but also 'oil for arms' dealings. Why did Erdogan order the arrest and imprisonment of Can Dundar - editor-in-chief of Cumhurriyet newspaper and another journalist, Erdem Gul, who was also detained? Several months ago, the newspaper had claimed that about 2000 trucks, operated by the Turkish government's secret service, MIT, transported weaponry to 'rebel groups in Syria'. The newspaper showed still photos from a video clip that clearly showed the type of weapons one truck was carrying when the Gendarmarie stopped and searched the truck and discovered its contents. When the AKP government found out that they had been exposed, they firstly denied that the truck contained any weapons. They claimed it was 'humanitarian aid for the Turkmen in Syria' - but, according to the news, the head of the Turkmen categorically denied receiving any aid. AKP then stated it was a 'state secret' and had all involved, the prosecutor who ordered the search, and the Gendarmarie officers and soldiers arrested and flung in jail on the charge of 'treason'. Erdogan said: 'So what if it was weapons!'

When you read this - http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151 ... h-oil.html - you'll wonder how the Yanks can be so naïve - or is their denial part of some complicated game that nobody is aware of?

Makum · Post by **Makum** » Thu 03 Dec 2015 3:53 pm

Good factual post SpongeDiver, as for western goverments, there are non so blind as those who do not wish to see.

SpongeDiver · Post by **SpongeDiver** » Thu 03 Dec 2015 4:03 pm

Cheers Makum!!!

This is more like the truth - 'The Truth Lies' - Check THIS out everyone, chortle & enjoy!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyVZ69b ... s_digest-g

brianc · Post by **brianc** » Sun 06 Dec 2015 11:08 am

The Yanks have never been naive, it is a part of their policy

Dalartokat · Post by **Dalartokat** » Sun 13 Dec 2015 7:28 pm

A Russian destroyer has fired warning shots at a Turkish ship in the Aegean sea to avoid collision. Ankara's Military attaché has been summoned over the incident.

http://news.sky.com/story/1605073/russi ... rkish-ship

turtle · Post by **turtle** » Sun 13 Dec 2015 8:17 pm

Narrowlly avoided a collision ?... It was nearly 600mtrs away ? that's the best part of a third of a mile away ?

jofra · Post by **jofra** » Sun 13 Dec 2015 8:51 pm

You need to realise that this was an extremely lethal and massively destructive......fishing vessel....

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