Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

I read in Cyprus Today recently that the government has earmarked cash for a splurge on promoting North Cyprus tourism particularly in the UK and Turkey. I rather think it is too little too late, and is something they should have decided upon 6 months ago. To get a decent advertising campaign together will take time, and by March, for the most part, they will have missed the boat.

From my own experience enquiries are well down on this time last year when now is the Peak Booking Season. This is not helped one bit by the changes at Owners Direct who completely changed their website in May 2015, to be so user unfriendly it is effecting the majority of property owners as can be seen on the Trustpilot portal. Once a very successful site for property owners all over, it is no longer. And before anybody rants at anyone renting out property as holiday rentals here, do not forget that those guests (many are first timers here), are more likely to go out, hire cars, use the restaurants and bars, and some even decide to buy property here, or as one of my 2015 guest has done, is now helping to rehome Cyprus strays in the UK, with her second dog already earmarked.

Of course this is unlikely the only reason for the huge drop in visitor enquiries. Potential visitors are bombarded with images of Cyprus on their TV screens and being so close to Syria, their perception is that of a war zone. The South too is not helping, as some project an image of the North being a Muslim country in a negative way, and right now with a plane being brought down in Egypt last October, bombs going off in Turkey again, and last summer tourists being shot randomly on a beach in Tunisia, I think that Cyprus will be off the menu for many, and particularly newcomers.

So I think it is up to us now as individuals to promote North Cyprus wherever we can. Whether on Facebook or just to our friends. Tourism was noticeably down in 2015 and digging up all the roads during peak season was hardly the best thing to do either to bring those people back, but for 2016 as things currently stand, I think local businesses need to brace themselves. It would be good to hear when and if this advertising campaign gets underway in the UK too!

Would help if they built some promenades to walk down in the evenings rather than a bit of concrete that goes nowhere and maybe a few town squares that one could sit out it on a nice evening.

I agree with David. See how they cater for tourists in Spain, for example.

It would help their cause if the copious litter strewn in every tourist site was collected daily and disposed of.

It certainly won't help Turkey or North Cyprus due to the bomb going off today in Istanbul near the Blue Mosque killing 8 Germans and one Peruvian as well as others injured.


http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/12/europ ... index.html


The other thing also, there are a lot of deals in the North of UK. When I was in NC last September at the Altinkaya Hotel there was a lot of Brits on 3 week holidays buy 2 and get an extra week free. Plus a lot of mainland Turks. Whilst I would not return to Altinkaya there were a lot of tourists who returned year on year and they were spending all day by the pool, eating in and drinking at the bar at night. So they are doing something right despite his expensive bar prices and notices telling people not to bring in their own food and drink.

So people with their own villas to rent may have stiff competition.

What is needed is to concentrate on natural resources rather than destroy them. N. Cyprus used to be known as the last remaining area of unspoilt beaches and natural beauty in th e Med. area,together with unique flora and fauna. Now most of it is under concrete and the views are spoilt and more threatened by large buidings. Forget the litter and even the Hoardings for the moment - they can be removed - multi storey buidings are more difficult.

What is needed is a strict Town and Country Planning laws, strictly enforced, together with stricter traffic controls, particularly size of vehicles on narrow roads.

Then we would need more traffic warnings: "Beware airborne porcine animals"

The last poster is right. As well as the latest horror , the political situation is a stumbling block. Forget the quick buck from the "only here for the beer" crowd - if not put off now they will move on in a year or two for the next country to sell its heritage for a mass of pottage.

Revert to the Policy of the 90s of sustainable tourism with return visitors and an extended season and concentrate on specialist groups - mountain lovers and climbers, walkers, history lovers, botanists etc. and do more work on nature trails : and holidays catering for the elderly and disabled - though the latter would need a lot of improvements to transport and infrastructure. They way the season could extend from March or April to December with more income for and therefore from existing hotels restaurants and shops and less need for capital for new ones.

And try to foster an interest in local cuisine - at the moment at is like the little girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead , when its good it is very, very good, but what its bad its...................... Well lets just say if you like it you have to live here and know where to go and the number of good local restaurants seems to decline each year.

Turkish Cypriots have a fear of their racial identity being swamped by others : mainlanders, Brits etc., but in dealing with their culture themselves they seem to be perversely trying to kill the goose that laid the golden egg

Do they have a minister for tourism here ?

Oh Oh , rose tinted glasses have again come out of the drawer.
We've lived here for nearly nine years, and as you can imagine, have had a fair few visitors to this lovely Island from as far as
Zambia.
Each and every one of them have returned, some, many times.
I know an elderly couple who have been visiting the same hotel twice a year for the past 20 odd years.

I just wanted to add a bit of positivity to this post, it isn't all that bad, and I for one do not want it to be like Spain !!!!

Hi we have been coming alsancak for six years and find north Cyprus and it's people just amazing we have booked our flights and accommodation for a six week stay as we always do
We have met and made friends with some fabulous people in bars restaurants and shops the owner of our place couldn't be more helpful .
We eat or drink our every day and use the Cypriot places as a preference and nearly always a good experience
Regarding the littering we except it for what it is as a local once told us it's not on my property so it's somebody else's problem.If the government don't insist that the local council keep their aeras litter free the locals will always have that attitude
We find once people come they invariably return to and travel all around this beautiful island as we have and still do

Ragged Robin, message 7 so right.
Tourists will "overlook" the Regional unstable climate,(up to a point) in search of a "special" Holiday experience. I have for many years done the beaches, done the Bars & Restaurants and done the Historical sites. The TRNC is really about a " feeling " of inner peace, of Time that has stood still, and of uniqueness in the corner of a planet which seems to be racing towards a frightening future. Enjoy the simple things that NC has to offer and hope that, the powers that be, can see that what they have, is quite precious and does not need to change so much at all for future prosperity.

I love it all. I love the chaos, bad driving, dodgy building, litter, scruffy parts intermingled with fantastically wonderful parts, the people (locals and ex-pats) are by-en-large great.

Much more refreshing/interesting than PC UK

We are very selective in who we promote N Cyprus to and some our friends would hate the place.

For us both it is a special place and despite the continued slow growth in tourism we feel we know the island very well and always manage to escape the masses. North Cyprus is not like a sanitised Spanish, Greek or Turkish resort and at times can appear a little scruffy round the edges….this has not been helped by the fact that it is only a recognised state byTurkey. Investment is low and things take a long time to come to fruition! However if you look beyond this and explore the north you will find the people friendly and helpful, many lovely and unspoilt beaches, great food at reasonable prices and above all beautiful scenery.

Needless to say any visitors who come out to see us always go home happy, smiling and wanting to return.

Flowerfairy
Surely wearing rose tinted glasses would make you see things in a much better light than they really are ?

David wrote:Do they have a minister for tourism here ?

Yes, they do. And at any moment now you may read about a pronouncement that tourism is booming, and nearly all the hotel beds have already been booked.

munchy wrote:Ragged Robin, message 7 so right.
Tourists will "overlook" the Regional unstable climate,(up to a point) in search of a "special" Holiday experience. I have for many years done the beaches, done the Bars & Restaurants and done the Historical sites. The TRNC is really about a " feeling " of inner peace, of Time that has stood still, and of uniqueness in the corner of a planet which seems to be racing towards a frightening future. Enjoy the simple things that NC has to offer and hope that, the powers that be, can see that what they have, is quite precious and does not need to change so much at all for future prosperity.

Well put, muchy. The TRNC has something special that so many other parts of the World has already lost. They really need to think about preserving what will last - if it is not interfered with - for future generations , not what will decay and/or go out of fashion in a year or two.

When I first came on holiday I found my "holiday snaps" were often spoiled because I had got a load of rubbish, a damaged building , a rusty car or frig in shot, or worse a pathetic stray animal. The last holiday I deliberately took pics of the"downside" to remind me and hellp the decision whether to come permanently. I found I had got a wonderful view in the background , some beautiful flowers growing out of the rubbish or happy smiling people. That was Cyprus, you took the bad with the good. Recently I tried for some new pictures to remind me if I have to leave. Admittedly I can walk far these days, but alll I could get was buildings, modern estates , cars and hoardings. The roads I used to drive with a view of the sea on one side and mountains on the other - I can no longer see the sea and only the tops of the mountains. The paths I used to walk arent even there any more.

Ragged Robin Message 16 That's so sad.
I am sure that if "The Locals" had a chance, they too would wish to " turn the clock back". Your message No 7 is so pertinent. Instead of these Grand Casinos, Palaces and, now, Skyscrapers, the Authorities could well get away with spending a fraction of their cash on THE BASICS and, without question, the previously loyal Tourists will return especially if things are honed for the over 50s.

CatalkoyChris wrote:I love it all. I love the chaos, bad driving, dodgy building, litter, scruffy parts intermingled with fantastically wonderful parts, the people (locals and ex-pats) are by-en-large great.

Much more refreshing/interesting than PC UK

How odd??

How lovely to read so much possitivity on this thread, I'm so pleased that others, like me find this Island a lovely place to live, or visit.

David, I have often been accused of wearing ''rose tinted glasses'', not because I see things better than they are, but more because I
make the best of what I have, and try to see the good in life. I feel that I am a very lucky lady.

Flowerfairy
My apologies, i thought you were suggesting that others were wearing them !!

munchy : message 17

Sadly I think that is the problem. The Authorities are not spending money on these monstrosities - they are making it or think they are going to !
I dont think (though I am open to correction on this) that the capital even originates in Cyprus or even mainland Turkey mostly.

The problem is that the infrastructure etc. will have to be upgraded to satisfy their demands , and the cost of electricity for example will become beyond the ordinary resident - local or expat. The buidlings will be all embracing so the occupiers will rarely leave them so there is no need to "tidy up" the rest of the country and as was suggested in a different context above, the local businesses which depend on tourism will loose out.

Its not a matter of "turning the clock back" - some changes are inevitable and there is room for improvement, but a matter of judgement of what is good and conserving it rather than (to use yet another metaphor) throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

As a simple example I live in a very old house, and as I get older myself sometimes wish for something newer or more convenient. But when I look at the average modern estate of "villas" and hear the problems they raise I recoil with horror. With a little more thought and less pretension they could have been designed to be more in keeping with the landscape and allow for changing seasonal weather and temperatures, but with more modern materials and interior design to increase insulation and take advantage of solar power.They could also have retained more trees, rather than bulldozing whole sites to minimise visual pollution as well as provide shade and wind breaks.

I believe that peoples opinions and feelings are forced upon them depending on how they have been dealt with during the time they have lived here - 11th year. In our case we fell amongst thieves from day one (but didn't discover this for about 18 months) both builders and "solicitors". We were coping until medical necessities raised its ugly head. As we cannot do anything about the builders (completely untouchable in this country - don't ask, even solicitors don't want to know). We are in our 11th year here and still struggling on an almost daily basis with Belediye and Government problems because of house structure, consequently it colours our feelings towards TRNC and unlike those who can close their eyes to all that is wrong here, we are finding it more and more difficult to do so. We don't want to classed as whingeing Brits, its just reality for us on a daily basis.

Sophie: I understand how you feel: although my experiences have been the opposite of yours. In the main (there are always exceptions) I have had good treatment, and sometimes extreme kindness from TCs , whereas I have been dropped very thoroughly in the ykw by fellow Brits and most of my problems have arisen in the UK - with estate agents and solicitors etc. And like you it was medical expenses combined with ill advised investment of funds for just such emergencies that was the last straw. Even the rosiest specs get a bit murky when you are struggling with what problem the next day will bring.

It demonstrates my point about building: TCs tend to be reactive rather than proactive and they jumped on the building bandwagon post 04 without thinking through that they did not have the infrastruture physical and legal in place first, let alone the building expertise. I wish they would learn by that experience and go yavaş yavaş with the larger buildings.

For those of us who were here in the 90s and earlier it really was different - difficult sometimes but much more pleasant.


PS Sophie there is an email waiting for you on other subject.

I am so sorry to read about the ongoing problems of some Ex-pats. We too had our difficulties and 1989 was our "year zero" when we returned to the UK Penniless together with our newborn Son.
We could not expect much sympathy on our return and it took us many years to get on our feet again.
I hope the Network of kind ex-pats still exists for those of you who have ongoing problems. There is a HUGE difference between those of you who have invested their Life Savings in Property to those others, who have the freedom to come and go at will. Sometimes it is more important to receive moral support than financial. I am sorry I,ve gone off thread, but I feel it is important to say

Half finished buildings dotted with builders rubbish. Poor transport system. Areas totally unsuitable for prams with poor street lighting need to be addressed before tourist will find the TRNC attractive. Expensive flights in comparison with other Med resorts and the only thing being thought about is more casinos? Trouble relying on repeat visitors is that there just isn't enough of them.

Re msg 26

QUOTE: "...and the only thing being thought about is more casinos? Trouble relying on repeat visitors is that there just isn't enough of them." UNQUOTE

Except, of course, the returning gamblers, of which there are many thousands. Every weekend, whatever the season.

In a little support of the TRNC - for a country of this size with a tax paying population of the size it has and given that the only support they receive is from Turkey, I think the TRNC has done well in the 41 years it has had to work with. Remember that they started with nothing and have played "catch up" for all the years past! As for tourists, there is no pleasing everyone, tourists will come and tourists will leave, some will come back, some new ones will come, some will never return. It is all about how they feel and what they want - I have a good friend out here who loves Benidorm, living proof that there is no accounting for taste!!

Change is coming to the land thick and fast and a lot of people do not want change but they do want what it brings - again you can't please all of the people all of the time. Love it or hate it, TRNC has grown and will continue to grow and change just like everywhere else - we all may have seen the best of it but in another 41 years another group of people will be still complaining about the change and how it used to be so much better. It is the same the world over and the best you can do is enjoy what you have whilst you have it.

well said Waddo,

With a tax paying population this size ....... might be smaller than you think.

I agree with Waddo that this country, warts and all, has come an amazing way in a short time considering its disadvantages. I however strongly disagree that change should be acccepted for changes's sake. Some things are worth conserving.

A Cypriot friend has just told me that half the population of N. Cyprus is now suffering from a type of gastric flu, He blames it on lack of natural resistance caused by eating genetically engineered food, particularly vegetables and bread made for modified wheat. Off topic, but I had recently noticed a decline in the quality of bread recently though I had not twigged that is was due to the flour used and there was a recent thread inwhich there was general agreement about declining standards in veg and fruit,so there might be something in it.

Back to tourists and the OP N. Cyprus tends to arose strong feeling - people either love of hate it. Posh is right in an earlier post, one needs be careful whom one encourages to come here and particularly about promoting it on something like Facebook otherwise the result might be the reverse of intended with nasty two page spreads in the UK tabloids.

Lambousa Market wrote:Re msg 26

QUOTE: "...and the only thing being thought about is more casinos? Trouble relying on repeat visitors is that there just isn't enough of them." UNQUOTE

Except, of course, the returning gamblers, of which there are many thousands. Every weekend, whatever the season.

But what do the gamblers contribute to the economy of the country, apart from swelling the coffers of the already obscenely rich who are not even Cypriots? Or , for that matter, its reputation and support for the right to compete globally on equal terms in other areas of commerce?

I've heard this too too much so I'm going to bite.

What do they contribute? In short: Plenty.

Most of the gamblers are from abroad: what they lose therefore comes from abroad.

Aside from these operations' massive investment costs (which obviously all stay here), and the marketing and promotions there are also:

Payroll, social insurance and pension contributions. Comestibles, consumables, parts & plant, utilities and the vat payable thereupon. Licence fees, municipal fees and taxes (which are myriad) and other taxes payable to other Government departments.

A mid-size casino hotel will have costs of not less than $2,000,000.- per month all of which stay right here. The bigger ones (Merit, Cratos etc) will be much much higher. The overwhelming proportion of their revenue will come from abroad - that is, it's a surplus in the whole balance-of-payments equation.

So, frankly, they contribute massively.

mmm I dont really know enough facts and figures to sustain an argument but my feeling is that what they take overweights the purelyu financial benefits. Think what they cost the infrastructure by way of electricity, water and road building for instance. Not to mention the losses and customers and resources to smaller local businesses.

Let alone the culture and lifestyle. Do we really want to live in an ill maintained and served desert consisting of large self contained skycrapers linked by motorways?

Lambousa Market. Obviously I was wrongly informed when I was told that, as the large Casinos are mostly owned by conglomerates registered outside of the TRNC, their profits and some taxes were filtered back to their own countries. Likewise most if not all of the equipment in the casinos, plus furniture and fittings in the hotels were sourced outside of the TRNC and a large majority of the employees were from countries other than the TRNC. Maybe I was wrongly advised. I have to say that I can't remember the last time I spoke to anyone in the Merit Hotels, who was not from abroad, doesn't matter what position they held in the hotels. (I have to admit I have not spoken to any of the cleaners but what I have seen appear to be other than TRNC nationals) As to paying utilities, if what we read in the papers is correct, most of the large casino hotels owe squillions to Kibtek and outsource the majority of their consumables. I have no idea what proportion of their income is paid in taxes to the TYNC government, but I do know the guests rarely leave the environs of any of the Merit Hotels, other than the occasional taxi. You have been in the business, so I'm assuming you are better informed? I don't suppose the full facts will ever see the light of day!!

With casinos maybe I have been wrongly informed as well, however, is there a restriction on the amount of money anyone can bring into the TRNC? If the answer to that is yes then maybe the information I was given is correct after all.

It went this way - Mr X from Y wants to gamble but there is nowhere in his country to do this - on a large scale - so Mr X comes to the TRNC. Downside, Mr X finds out that he is only allowed to bring Z in currency and he is RICH!!! Z to him is just pocket change so he finds a way around the problem. As the large casinos in the TRNC have bank accounts based in his country he simply deposits his large amount that he wants to gamble with into an account in the same bank as the casino. Then he comes here and either wins or loses. If he wins then the bank in his country transfers funds from the casino account into his account. If he loses then it is the other way around. Good scheme that as neither one of them has to pay any taxes either. Mr X comes, has his fun, spends his pocket change on things to brighten his life and then goes back home again - richer or poorer but having had a good time and giving nothing to the TRNC but his landing fees!

True or False????

RR, the sad part is that you can not stop change - it will happen no matter what you do. But you can assist conservation if you are willing to shout loud enough over the top of the politicians! On the bread scene we have changed to buying bread baked in Sah as it is made from imported good flour, veg is still good just go search for it everywhere if you can or if able plant your own. We never buy the pre-packed junk and always seek out the fresh - the Wednesday market is a good place but pick your stall carefully!! This bout of gastric flu seems to have hit my Cypriot friends hard but why, given that we all eat the same stuff, has it not decimated the ex-pat population who have not run back to the UK for the winter? Strange, maybe its a change in basic diet rather than a change in the veg??

I have had Gastric problems for many years and I have been treated for IBS. Recently I decided to exclude Wheat Products from my Diet . I now eat Gluten Free Bread etc and my condition is much improved after some weeks.
Whenever I visit the TRNC I never have any noticable problems, I eat anything and everything and I love my Efes. I think the Importation of Wheat Products/Gm etc may now start to have a negative impact in NC. Here in the UK we were previously warned about excessive sugar, salt, fat intake but the real culprit in my case is adulterated WHEAT.

waddo: actually the gastric flu has decimated some of the UK population - me! Still recovering from it! Unfortunately I cant get about much normally so cant pick and chose where I buy or get to the Wed. market but I do grow some veg, herbs and lemons myself more or less organically and I can taste the difference. I think the introduction of modified foods to the TRNC must have been comparatively recent - or perhaps it is just that there are more imports. As for the bread I was mystified by the change since most is made locally till I realised it was the flour. I bought celery (from Sah!) today and looking at it - it is just too fat and crisp to be naturally produced in this climate -it tastes good though, but proves that looks arent everything.

I think messages 35 and 36 have the right of it re casinos.

You live and work in the UK on an average wage, have a partner & 2 kids. You want your annual 2 week holiday that you've saved hard for and looked forward to, in the sun at a reasonable price, you'd prefer all inclusive to save costs, you want decent food that's not going to give you or your family 'the runs' and the kids will want to eat, you'd like as short a flight as possible to keep the family happy, you want to know the hotel/resort is clean, safe, as described with a decent pool and bar (you've heard about and seen all the horror stories on TV), you'd like entertainment for the kids so at least you may get some peace. You'd also like the area around your hotel/resort to be clean, tidy and safe with reasonably priced, family friendly restaurants & bars. You'd also like to be reassured that if the worst was to happen that there are good medical & hospital facilities.

You would also want someone to recommend the hotel/resort/country because you don't want to be caught out.

So how many of those boxes can be ticked by hotels in the TRNC?

Err .... is the answer none ?

Hector,why would anyone choose TRNC if a short flight was required? Quite a few hotels do all inclusive,think children need to be 14+. Couple of these we stayed in before we lived here,excellent food,facilities & cleanliness! Lots of restaurants have pools which are free providing drink or food are purchased. Food & drinks in general are very reasonable as long as,for example Girne Harbour avoided where food/ drinks are always more expensive. We have quite a few children come visit us during the year, mostly all most of them need is a pool & beach with maybe tv & a film in the evening is fine. Mixed opinions on medical care, some say it's good,some bad.

If i still had the kids , young, keen and eager for some sunshine, swimming and safety, I would certainly bring them to North Cyprus. Lots of places offering great facilities. Lots to see - an introductory to history, geography of the Med and all outside of Euroland. Having travelled to far flung places, I don't feel the flight to North Cyprus is unduly long at all. Guess it is like everything else - personal choice.

But for me, the place would tick the boxes far more than Ibiza, Agia Napa and many other places.

The problem this year is the proximity to war zones! And people don't realise it is all miles and miles away.

Up the TRNC

Forget the beaches, the food, the dirt and the rest of the opinions above, what I feel most sad is when my Sister asked me a couple of years back "what is most money spent on where you live", she was taken somewhat aback when I told her that in my opinion in was Gambling and Prostitution.

Some years ago, when I first mentioned that I was coming here on holiday, a chap that I worked with - who'd spent time here in the RAF - said, "Oh, it's OK if you're into Money Laundering and Ladies of the Night".

Keith that was the south and I thought this was about the north. When my son in law came to limassol the one runt be wanted to do was roam around Heroes square wirh his daughter in a pram,
Surely every country had its sin city. North cyprus is far from the worst tourist resort . I found Rio the most frightening in that I could not even walk the beach in safety.
Times change places change and sin prevails. Maybe that is why one of the most popular places took see at pompei is the 'naughty 'house!

My point really is, what is the TRNC doing, bearing in mind all of the competition to attract the average family to come here on holiday?

How well known is North Cyprus? How well advertised it it? What is the Minister of Tourism doing to sell a holiday here?

How do the costs of a package holiday here stack up against Spain, Portugal, Turkey or the South for example? What is the USP of the TRNC?

The place needs a serious clean up

How can you get the place to clean up when the following true scenario occurred not far from us. 4 houses in a small group, 1st house completed and garden landscaped, all the rubbish chucked on to house No.2 area. So on it went. Come to house No.4 so what do you do with all the rubbish? You chuck on to a pristine area of land close by all 4 houses. So it will sit until someone decides to buy the once pristine land and the cycle will start all over again. Likewise a house very close to ours has been bought, so we are given to understand, by a Government Minister. He has built extensions and gone up a floor causing masses of rubbish, all of which had gone over the ravine side, but it can't be actually seen from his house, so that doesn't matter!! Its a cultural thing.... if you can't actually see it, then it isn't there.

How can you get the place to clean up when the following true scenario occurred not far from us. 4 houses in a small group, 1st house completed and garden landscaped, all the rubbish chucked on to house No.2 area. So on it went. Come to house No.4 so what do you do with all the rubbish? You chuck on to a pristine area of land close by all 4 houses. So it will sit until someone decides to buy the once pristine land and the cycle will start all over again. Likewise a house very close to ours has been bought, so we are given to understand, by a Government Minister. He has built extensions and gone up a floor causing masses of rubbish, all of which had gone over the ravine side, but it can't be actually seen from his house, so that doesn't matter!! Its a cultural thing.... if you can't actually see it, then it isn't there.