Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Good morning all,

This made me smile .. hope they don't do it here, I'll the first one out .. ha ha ..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ation.html

In order to get citizenship (as opposed to residence) of the UK people have to pass not only a stringent test of English language but also one of customs and traditions that few native Brits. could pass. It includes among other things historical dates that I forgot the moment I left school and I doubt few under 50 have even heard of! To be fair to the UK system they do (or rather they did) provide free English language classes - I taught as a volunteer in one for a year in the UK, but maybe it has been scrapped since. And the BBC provide English lanaguage classes. Of course you have to be able to get to the classes and/or have a computer.

As for David CAmeron someone should stick him in a foreign country (Siberia?) where he does not speak the language and tell him to get on with it!

Memo to self - must remember to look again at the site that does Turkish language.

Today David Cameron has pledged 20 million pounds to teach the 22% of Muslim women who can't speak the English language.

Would be better spent teaching the kids to speak English, I haven't got a clue what my Grandson is on about half the time. Wicked, innit.

woodspeckie wrote:Today David Cameron has pledged 20 million pounds to teach the 22% of Muslim women who can't speak the English language.

It would be better spent on the families of the steelworkers whose jobs have disappeared with steel industry closures, or the people who have lost their home, businesses through flood damage. It is the responsibility of the individual to fund his or her language course if they don't have the funds they should not be in our country, because without a decent income or bank balance you would not be welcome in the TRNC.

Just talking about your comment top ten as I am in Ebbw Vale at moment which is dead town as they closed steel works down few years ago. Does Cameron realise the women he is targeting will never get permission from their husbands to go to these classes, they want to keep them from mixing with westerners, they may get some "ideas" that there is a life out there. Waste of money.

topten wrote:

woodspeckie wrote:
It is the responsibility of the individual to fund his or her language course if they don't have the funds they should not be in our country, because without a decent income or bank balance you would not be welcome in the TRNC.

That is hardly fair - we had a choice, genuine refugees do not.

But it is true there would be problems. I taught in a mainly Asian area but few of the students were Asian and still less women. Probably because the classes were held in the evening as the teachers had day jobs, when most of the women would have been making their children's tea! Also for many Asian women they would have to be single sex. Most of the female students were European au pairs, though they did pay fees but probably a lot less than private. Most of the teachers were volunteers and the classes were held in schools - which was contrary to the Council's own standards of not teaching in demeaning surroundings. I begin to see where the£20m would go!

We actually had more demand for literacy and numeracy classes for native English speakers who had missed out on schooling. I agree that the money would be better spent on educating children of ALL ethnic origin (including Brtish) and particularly in the English language.

[quote="Ragged Robin"][quote="topten"][quote="woodspeckie"]

It is the responsibility of the individual to fund his or her language course if they don't have the funds they should not be in our country, because without a decent income or bank balance you would not be welcome in the TRNC

RR your post looks like I posted this, I didn't.

"....to teach the 22% of Muslim women who can't speak the English language." - or who are not permitted to learn...
The following statement highlights the uselessness and stupidity of throwing money at a problem you do not understand - Mrs Gohir apparently does understand, while Cameron does not....
(edited from BBC News)
'Shaista Gohir is chair of the Birmingham-based Muslim Women's Network UK, which works to improve equality for Muslim women and girls.
She says the government's pledge on English lessons is a good thing, but should not be linked to radicalisation and should be for women of all backgrounds, not just Muslims."We do get calls from women who say their husbands or in-laws don't want them learning English, because that will empower them and it will disrupt the status quo in their homes and communities."
"Learning English means women can engage with their children and schools, access local services, know their rights and engage with their neighbours," she says.
But Mrs Gohir says the really pressing issues to be tackled are patriarchy and misogyny among Muslim men in authority.
"It's not just among a few spouses stopping their wives learning English, it's among those running institutions like mosques and local councillors. Women cannot be involved in decision making at most mosques, tackling issues like drugs, rape and domestic abuse.
"Party politics is mostly controlled by male Muslim councillors, and their frequent patriarchal attitudes are exacerbated in our communities.
"These out-of-touch men are making decisions about women's lives, and these are the sorts of barriers that women face. That's the real problem for women, regardless of how good their English is." '
The culture of male domination/female subordination is the stumbling block - just think back to pre-Pankhurst days...

woodspeckie: I sincerely apologise : I was trying to quote top ten, who in turn was quoting something else from an earlier post from you.! I thought I had deleted the reference to your post but it seems to have jumbled it. Perhaps Mr. Cameron would think about spending a tiny fraction of that £20m on teaching me how to use a computer!

Ragged Robin wrote:woodspeckie: I sincerely apologise : I was trying to quote top ten, who in turn was quoting something else from an earlier post from you.! I thought I had deleted the reference to your post but it seems to have jumbled it. Perhaps Mr. Cameron would think about spending a tiny fraction of that £20m on teaching me how to use a computer!

That's ok.
see you in a couple of weeks time.

Jofra's post and quotation is very useful and relevant. Thankyou Jofra. But for Cameron to tackle "male domination" in our own (British) society , let alone Muslim, would be to quote Sir Humphrey "a very brave decision, Prime Minister"!!!!! To teach the women English would be the easy option and would to some extent empower them, and at least perhaps enable them to influence the attitudes of their sons and daughters.

Sadly I think it is easier said than done. Many of these women have been brain washed into believing that a domestic role is all they can expect, others (rather like "battered wife syndrome) maybe prepared to accept it in return for a guaranteed home and food for themselvs and their children.

And are they well educated to start with - some may even by illiterate in their own language. The role of education is to learn how to learn, and they have probably only ever been taught domestic skills. Most of us have experience of how difficult it is to learn a foreign language once we have left the age of education and forgotten our learning skills.

It would need a lot of very skilled and committed teachers, and I dont know if they are to be found. At best they would be taken from main stream education, which it seems could ill afford the loss.

Do these women even have computer skills? It is all very well learning a language, and logic, how to construct a sentence and present and argument, but being able to use a computer seems an essential to modern life and if you then muck it up by fumbling dragging a mouse, clicking the wrong icon or pressing the wrong key (as I demonstrated above ) And so often these days if you want to register a complaint or make a representation you dont have to write it ,just select one of two or three options none of which really represent your views

Far better surely to spend taxpayers hard earned money on giving children of all ethnic origins a good all round education that teaches them to think for themselves as well as express their thoughts.