Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

With on going discussions should Guzelyurt, famagusta, etc be given back?

I'm no, don't know. If you mean Maras/Varosha, then isn't there a question of whether it is actually Evkaf property that was usurped by the GCs during British rule. Because Britain annexed Cyprus, breaking their agreement with Turkey, I was told the GCs were favoured over the TCs in all positions of power. Does anyone else know the exact history (or close).

frontalman wrote:I'm no, don't know. If you mean Maras/Varosha, then isn't there a question of whether it is actually Evkaf property that was usurped by the GCs during British rule. Because Britain annexed Cyprus, breaking their agreement with Turkey, I was told the GCs were favoured over the TCs in all positions of power. Does anyone else know the exact history (or close).

That was certainly true when I was first there. The TCs were generally labourers.

But so what, are these places and others not all "Cypriot"?

Why?

If you think the answer is yes then: Should Girne be given back as well, along with Lapta and everywhere in the North?

Times change, history is continually re-written in favor of either the conquerors or the defeated, depending on which side gains the greatest publicity. The whole Island belongs to the Cypriots and it must be their decision on what they will do with it. There has been peace on the Island for the past 42 years - why change it now? If an agreement can not be reached between the two sides then leave it as it is, neither side will have lost anything more than they did in the past 60 years and both sides have learnt to live with the past.

Should the RoC return the land LCA and Paphos airports have been built on?

waddo wrote:Why?

If you think the answer is yes then: Should Girne be given back as well, along with Lapta and everywhere in the North?

Times change, history is continually re-written in favor of either the conquerors or the defeated, depending on which side gains the greatest publicity. The whole Island belongs to the Cypriots and it must be their decision on what they will do with it. There has been peace on the Island for the past 42 years - why change it now? If an agreement can not be reached between the two sides then leave it as it is, neither side will have lost anything more than they did in the past 60 years and both sides have learnt to live with the past.

Exactly Waddo.

GC believe history of Cyprus only started in 74 in the interest of a compromise I would return Maros/Varosha but not Guzelyurt.
It would be interesting to know what would happen if there was a no vote, especially has it appears after all this time they've agreed the important issues like the make up of the judiciary and left the less important issues of property, security and guarantees for the final few months if there is to be a referendum 2016 ?

I agree with Waddo. Things have worked reasonably well since the loosening of Border Controls some years ago. When the Cypriots themselves are ready for reconciliation they will do it without outside interference.

Did the Annan plan which was turned down by the Greeks not give them much of what they wanted?
The Greeks want no Turks on the island - full stop !
My experience in the late 60s was that the Turks were "tolerated" but very much regarded as non people.
You can't do business with the Greeks and they certainly cannot be trusted.

I believe you are spot on sandman with your post well said.

What is meant by "giving Guzelyurt back"?

I thought that the whole point of the peace process was to re-unify the island, not carve it up and give bits of it to different factions.

I agree that Varosha is different, as it is uninhabited, so could go back to its previous owners, but empty a village of its current inhabitants and invite a completely different people to come in? I think not.

I think what the south wants is for the border to be moved and leave Guzelyurt in the south! Not sure how they do that one. As has been said, Varosha is a different thing altogether. They want Guzlyurt/Morphou back because of the church which is a huge part of their history. But if there is to be free passage with no let or hindrance, then they can come back. Or is it that theywish to have the church for worship each Sunday. Then of course one could say that the northerners owuld like certain of their mosques to be available for worship on a regular basis.

Anyone else out there with a clearer picture as to why this demand of Guzelyurt/Morphou is part of the 'deal'?

My opinion, which is probably worth very little is that they are asking

a) Because they CAN, and

b) To demonstrate to their 'electorate' that they are driving a 'hard bargain' by not relinquishing any ground...

But, NOT because they think that there is any chance that their wish will be granted!

Isn't Guzelyurt a major fertile part of the TRNC rich soil and a main citrus growing region?

Of course.! The main area for oranges etc. But I am trying to be understanding of their need to have their churches!

There are more Greek Orthodox churches in the current RoC territory than can ever be justified for the size of the GC population. The assertion of the need to have another in Guzelyurt is a smokescreen.

Actually I totally agree Tom. But the church gets used to justify things, and don't forget, it is rumoured that the south was told to vote against the Annan plan, or god would strike them down with a thunderbolt!

Well Marion, if they believed that tosh then, what hope of any settlement in the near future?

Morphou Bay! The prime beach area of the North and therefore prime for development of even more hotels and income! The church is just a blind - it allows the poor GC to pull on the heart strings of the world as they have nowhere to pray and is part of their heritage. They never mention the TC heritage that has been destroyed because that is bad press and they don't have to because it no longer exists. Beware the black hatters!!!

This was in the Cyprus Today on 27th March - April 2nd 2004......

Ozkan Murat, the then Interior Minister in 2004, visited the villages of Zumrutkoy(Kadagopya), Serhadkoy(Filya) and Akcay(Argaca) telling the people that on 31st March a final document would emerge and be placed on the table at the talks in Switzerland to be put to referendum.

In answer to a question from a villager in Zumrutkoy, who asked would his village be given to the Greek Cypriots, he said it was always made clear that some territory would be given back and that a map, at the last minute, would be put on the table determining which village would be moving where. He said that if the final map was accepted as valid document then the village of Zumrutkoy would be given back to the Greek Cypriots.

According to Cyprus Today April 3rd - 9th 2004..........

As many of the citizens of Guzelyurt originally came from Limasol(Limassol) Baf(Paphos) and neighbouring villages a few of the properties belonged to Evkaf. The previous owners of most of the properties were Greek Cypriots.

Whether this will be the same villages to move if the talks are successful, the people will have to wait and see, which must be enormously stressful for them again.

Guzelyurt Current Inhabitants: This information direct from prio-cyprus-displacement

Currently the town is mainly inhabited by displaced Turkish Cypriots from the towns of Paphos(Ktima)/Gazi Baf(329), Limassol(269), Episkopi/Yalova(262), Polemidia/Binatlı(278) and Polis/Poli(332). There are also a number of families from the following villages in Paphos: Akoursos/Akarsu(288), Pitargou/Akkargı(331), Axylou/Aksu(297), Agios Ioannis/Aydın(285), Agia Merkur, Melandra/Beşiktepe(325), Lapithiou/Bozalan(316), Kidasi (Jiyas)/Ceyhan(310), Lempa/Çıralı(317), Vretsia/Dağaşan(342), Agios Nikolaos/Esentepe(287), Androlikou/Gündoğdu(292), Pelathousa/Karaağaç(330), Prodromi/Karşıyaka(334), Agios Georgios/Kavaklı(284), Timi/Ovalık(340), Polis(332), Souskiou/Susuz(337), Marona/Uluçam(323), Gialia/Yayla(307), Mandria/Yeşilova(322) and Galataria/Yoğurtçular(305). One can easily call Morphou/Güzelyurt a refugee town. In the 1996 census, 5,715 out of 10,845 Turkish Cypriot citizens living in Morphou showed their birthplace as south Cyprus.

So the question must also be asked: If Guzelyurt is given back to the GC, would the homes and lands of the displaced TC from the South also be given back to them? We all know that the answer will be a resounding NO but it should still be asked in public.

I heard Denktash many a time talk about exchange land etc with his friend Clerides. And it is all O.K. he said. So one must assume that the TC's from the south will be happy to return and take up a new life style in the south after 40 plus years, and equally applies to the GC's who went here and there in the south. It seems to me (and probably hundreds of others) that this wishing to reclaim Guz\elyurt/Morphou has nothing to do with people but everything to do with property.

You cannot really ask the question "Should Guzelyurt be given back?" in isolation can you?

It has been made clear for weeks that the territory issue has not yet been discussed in the negotiations between Presidents Akinci and Anastassiadis.
Any proposed territorial adjustment will be part of an overall settlement package, not done in isolation. So Guzelyurt and Varosha will feature if an agreement can be reached that can be put to the people of Cyprus in a referendum, but in deciding how to vote Cypriots will be looking at any deal as a whole, and I expect for a lot of people there may be things they like and do not like. Their decision will come down to whether they feel any proposed settlement is better or worse than more decades of stalemate.