Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

The shepherd who farms the land opposite Rafters tells me his brother has been offered £160.000 sterling for 1.5 donums of the olive grove and he has been asked to consider £400.000 sterling for his 4 donums of land further up.
It appears that construction companies are interested in building new houses. Both these plots are exchange land
The Grove has been demolished and it appears a new hotel is being built on this site. Building work continues unabated and seems if anything to have escalated.Does somebody know something. Perhaps it's a good time to,hang on to your property and see what happens

My impression is that 'post settlement' (if one ever materialises ) that any GC claims against Land or Dwellings will be assessed, amongst other criteria, partly on the basis of 'has the property been improved'? and 'is it currently in use'?

The answers to these questions may help to determine the strength of the current occupier's right to retain the property, vs the right of the GC to reclaim the property, and may lead to a decision as to whether to restore ownership, award financial compensation, or offer alternative property by way of compensation.

Don't ask me where financial compensation might come from - I've no idea!

Ask Erol

More new hotels, a great deal of money spent improving business', just to list a few in Alsancak:
Merit(s)
Sevener
Acmenya
Rose Gardens
New supermarket? almost opposite Starling
New big building opposite Sevener
The list goes on.
I am sure a few people know exactly what the outcome will be, and has probably always been.
By the end of the year is my guess.

I have to agree with you Brian.
What is the big building opposite Severner ?

It seems that the current building frenzy is similar to the one that took place twelve years ago before the Annan Plan referendum and very likely for reasons suggested by Keith. It would be interesting to know where is all the money coming from to fuel these new builds and what is the state of the rest of the property market.

turtle wrote:What is the big building opposite Severner ?

Don't know, but it appears to be one big building, not a collection of 'too small to make a business' shops.

Think of it a different way - exchange land - if there was such a thing would mean that some TC land had been exchanged for some GC land, yes? As far as I am aware very little land has been exchanged between the two governments so what is "exchange land"? However, if you talk about land that belongs - legally - to the GC then that is a different kettle of fish. That sort of land - used to be called "Air land" is simply land that the TRNC government gave to displaced TC's from the RoC so they could start a new life. IF there is a settlement then some form of "compromise" will have to be reached - I do understand that it will be a totally new word in the GC dictionary and will have to be explained to them - but everyone I speak to seems to have the idea that if you have bought land that belongs to a GC then you (or somebody) will have to pay to keep it - yes or no?

Lets say the answer is yes, compensation is required. So £160,000. for 1.5 donum of olive grove is a good price but once you have put two houses on it the purchase or compensation price could rise drastically as the land has been improved and is now worth lets say £500,000. Here comes the argument - GC says "You owe me £160,000 for the land you stole" - TC says "no problem but I don't want it anyway, just pay me £300,000 for the two house that are on it and you can have it back" - GC says "Push off, restore it to its original state and give it back or cough up the cash" - TC says "Take me to court then". Remember both sides are now full EU members - 30 years later the case will come to court............................................

The end of Sunday night mumble - sorry.

waddo wrote:Think of it a different way - exchange land - if there was such a thing would mean that some TC land had been exchanged for some GC land, yes?

Yes

and No

Post 74 TC with land left in the South could exchange, if they chose to, the freehold title to that land with the government (back then was the Turkish Federated State of Cyprus) for 'points'. They could then exchange these points with the government for freehold title to GC land / property that the government had taken effective control of post 74. However this was not the only means by which a post 74 TC could get 'points'. Points were awarded for other things as well as for signing over title to land in the South to the north's governments. So for example widows of TC killed in the troubles between 64-68 could gain points as compensation for the loss of their spouses.

Over all the amount of land, in square kilometres, that the TRNC 'gained' is greater than which was 'lost' as a result of 74. There is the detail of loss and gain of 'private owned land' and 'state owned land' which are not the same but over all whilst there is a large residual value of land in the south that was TC pre 74 and is currently owned by the TRNC, than can be used to offset claims against GC land that the TRNC gave freehold title to others too post 74, in square killometers there is a shortfall. In terms of monetary value , that is complicated by how you assess the value of such land. At 74 prices ? At 74 prices adjusted for inflation ? At today's prices ? Or to go to the furthest end of the spectrum of how you might asses vlaue at the price such land would be worth today if Cyprus had never been divided in 74 at all ?

Quite a minefield to sort out then. I assume it will take years.

Erol, understood all of that but was trying to keep it simple. Question then - TC had land in South, came North, handed land to TRNC Government in exchange for points! What did the TRNC Government do with the land in the South?

waddo wrote:Erol, understood all of that but was trying to keep it simple. Question then - TC had land in South, came North, handed land to TRNC Government in exchange for points! What did the TRNC Government do with the land in the South?

They are 'holding it' is my understanding though I do think some of it has been used to settle claims via the IPC where the claimant has agreed to take such as settlement or part settlement for their claim.. This in turn has led to the GC claimant then having to 'fight' the RoC to accept their ownership of this land, something the RoC has tried to resit but know ultimately they would be forced to do if such were to reach say the ECHR. To date in such cases my understanding is that the RoC has 'given in' under threats to GC individuals and agreed to recognise their ownership of land in the south granted to them via the IPC and made up of land that TC had previously signed over to the TRNC in exchange for points, but only on the basis that such is a non precedent setting exception. It does all gvet very messy.

Indeed it is messy, without total truth on both sides it will always be a real "challenge" to sort out, strangely enough I wish both sides well and despite the GC intransigence in all matters TC I do hope a successful plan can emerge and that both sides can then move forward, probably not together but at least side by side!

Greek PM has thrown dolly out of the pram and has cancelled next meeting. ELAM has won two seats in South Cyprus Govt. which is now very right wing. Had high hopes of a settlement but things look a bit rocky now. Boy they have some talking to do.

jackvern wrote:Greek PM

Have I missed the reference to Mr Tsipras ?

Whoops. South Cyprus PM. Can't spell his name. You got the drift I hope.