Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

You might think that it is, you might argue that it ought to be, but sadly, it isn't.

If you don't believe me, Google it

So, given whichever extreme right wing Conservative is going to be the new Prime Minister for the next 5 years or so, do you think that he or she will be inclined to actually implement a BREXIT?

...Or, if it is implemented, that the Conservatives will take the opportunity to repeal all of the 'pro-worker' EU legislation that has been forced on the UK in recent years?

You are just wicked Keith! Just when I thought that the Brexit people would now stop banging that damn drum about how Great Britain would be again - the days of the Raj returning? - and that they had forgotten all about how crafty politicians actually are, when they presumed them to be upright, honest citizens employed to work for the public, you go ahead and dig up some of the things that the politicians "neglected" to mention!

So here we will go again - good job, now let the "Discussion" commence - lol.

Keithcaley wrote:You might think that it is, you might argue that it ought to be, but sadly, it isn't.

If you don't believe me, Google it

So, given whichever extreme right wing Conservative is going to be the new Prime Minister for the next 5 years or so, do you think that he or she will be inclined to actually implement a BREXIT?

...Or, if it is implemented, that the Conservatives will take the opportunity to repeal all of the 'pro-worker' EU legislation that has been forced on the UK in recent years?

Keith,
I hardly think so.
However the new leader of our government will have some interesting talks and negotiations.
If article 50 is submitted by the UK ( it has done so yet) then as the EU leaders have said. OUT is OUT.

If there was a second upon say article 50 implementation I now feel the result would be very different indeed as the experts are being proven correct.
I do not think this will carry however as it has been very clear REMAIN or LEAVE.

waz-24-7 wrote:...I hardly think so...

Sorry, you 'hardly think so' - what?

I asked two questions.

The first question that I asked was whether anyone thought that 'the new Prime Minister' would be inclined to actually implement a BREXIT (given that the result of the referendum is not legally binding).

Is that the question that you are answering?

The rest of your post appeared to be not answering either that question, or the second one.

Keithcaley wrote:

waz-24-7 wrote:...I hardly think so...

Sorry, you 'hardly think so' - what?

I asked two questions.

The first question that I asked was whether anyone thought that 'the new Prime Minister' would be inclined to actually implement a BREXIT (given that the result of the referendum is not legally binding).

Is that the question that you are answering?

The rest of your post appeared to be not answering either that question, or the second one.

apologies, Keith

I think the BREXIT will be implemented as the referendum was clear REMAIN or LEAVE
Certainly EU legislation including workers rights will be ditched or at least amended to suit who is calling the shots in the UK government.
I am absolutely amazed that labour voters in particular failed to follow union leaders and party leadership advice.
The BREXIT propaganda certainly worked and the immigration frighteners worked well.

I have to ask why should workers rights be under threat? This is typical scaremongering from the remain campaign.
In the real,world this will never happen so please, credit those of us who went against the establishment with a bit more commensense.

If anything this referendum was a huge kick up the a*** for the establishment of all flavours, Tories will now regroup rather than risk another kick but eventually there has to be an election, will they really want to upset the very group that led this very British revolution.

WotNoDeeds ....

Many 'cries for help' kicking about at the moment, in fact makes the GC propaganda look both convincing and genuine.

If this was not implemented, they would run the risk of a 'UK Spring', plus as a general election will be likely very soon also, every MP would loose their seat, or worse. They're not likely to want that.

WotNoDeeds wrote:This plaque is above the doors of the E.U. visitor Centre basically the enforced abolition of individual nation states, without the consent of those nations’ populations, and this will lead to a massive explosion of trouble in Europe Hitler tried this and look what happened the Eurocrats have got it badly badly wrong. Thank god the U.K. voted out.

Have you yet assessed the cost of your vote? Have you not noted that 3 trillion dollars has disappeared from the Markets on BLACK FRIDAY. Sterling has collapsed to a 25 yr low.
Independence day....NO ...A very expensive attempt at establishing a right wing super state. One that already is under threat of break up as Scotland and N Ireland seek a departure from The UNITED KINGDOM. Sombre mood certainly here in Blighty.

The UK is leaving the European Union. Your continued attacks on Europe are absolutely pointless.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

David wrote:zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

David
Thank you.
Your comments are empty of any content as on another debate topic this morning.

If and when you are able to enter the debate then please do.
You are invited to debate and present content that is useful as are most posters.

If you cannot then please go back to bed and go to sleep zzzzzzzzzzzz

Sorry everybody for wasting time here.

Total irrelevance as to it being legally binding. The people have spoken in a democratic vote and the Goverment should repect that decision. As for anyone suggesting a second referendum I think it is Shameful. We live in a democracy, not North Korea, somthing we should all be proud of and cherish.

thornaby wrote:Total irrelevance as to it being legally binding. The people have spoken in a democratic vote and the Goverment should repect that decision. As for anyone suggesting a second referendum I think it is Shameful. We live in a democracy, not North Korea, somthing we should all be proud of and cherish.

Yes you are correct thornaby,

However the exclusion of 16 - 18 yr olds is not fair or proper or indeed democratic.
The youngsters are rather cross and I understand that.
There is a petition that has run since Friday for a second referendum.
The petition that at last count was over 3.5 million and securing 100,000 signatures an hour is a democratic and constitutional right.
I do not think there is the age restrictions that were present in the referendum.

Whilst I do not think a second vote will take place. I do feel the youngsters have been sold short.
If there was. Given the expertly predicted crash I would do odds on of a reversal of current.

Waz
I would forget about the online petition for a second referendum. Have a look at this:
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06 ... gnatories/

thornaby wrote:Total irrelevance as to it being legally binding...

Really?

It is NOT legally binding.

The Government can choose to: -

a) Do as the result suggests that the majority of Voters want them to do.

b) Do the exact opposite.

c) Just ignore the entire thing.

If you don't believe me, look it up.

As for saying that "The Goverment should respect that decision" - well, there's a lot of things that the Government should do, but don't do!

N.B. edited to correct mis-spelling of 'respect'

Like it SHOULD have repealed the law preventing all overseas British subjects who have not voted in the last 15 years from voting - bet they regret that little thing now!

Well said Waddo - but it is not "who have not voted in the last 15 years from voting" - it is "who have been domiciled overseas for more then 15 years" who are prevented from voting. I voted up to and including my 15th year (sometimes with great difficulty by proxy) but after that I was not allowed to vote. I am however still allowed to pay income tax on my pension!

Do you really think that enfranchasing long term expatriates would in fact have swayed the vote, however?

AJay wrote:Waz
I would forget about the online petition for a second referendum. Have a look at this:
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06 ... gnatories/

Thank you.
I do not expect a second vote. However given the clear activity by the excluded youngsters and indeed the reporting this morning on Radio 4.
Regret is the order of the day as experts are proven right.
In the very unlikely event. I have Odds on for a REMAIN.
The fact is that BREXIT is now on the table.

Mr Johnson has changed his tune. "No rush to leave the EU"
I can smell some behind closed doors discussion. BREXIT but not as we know it.
I do hope we can maintain common market membership. That would come at a cost and most likely labour market freedoms.
I am up for that as long as it happens quickly

The UK voted to leave, no government will go back on this decision.

We are leaving the EU after 40 plus years.....the EU has changed since we joined in 1973 and slowly our sovereignty has been eroded and the benefits of leaving outweigh staying.

The EU needed the UK more than we needed them and the UK leaving has sent a massive message to Brussels, they are in my opinion more shocked that we are leaving than we are. Brussels is running scared, they want us to move more quickly to exit, however and rightly so, the UK can take its time implementing article 50 and has 2 years to negotiate our exit. Brussels does not want this, they would rather we went quicker. The UK is in control of something which Brussels does not like.....

PoshinDevon wrote:The UK voted to leave, no government will go back on this decision.

We are leaving the EU after 40 plus years.....the EU has changed since we joined in 1973 and slowly our sovereignty has been eroded and the benefits of leaving outweigh staying.

The EU needed the UK more than we needed them and the UK leaving has sent a massive message to Brussels, they are in my opinion more shocked that we are leaving than we are. Brussels is running scared, they want us to move more quickly to exit, however and rightly so, the UK can take its time implementing article 50 and has 2 years to negotiate our exit. Brussels does not want this, they would rather we went quicker. The UK is in control of something which Brussels does not like.....

Posh Certainly.
Given article 50 may take some time as all the UK camps seem to be saying, even Boris. Mr Farage has gone almost silently into his independence pit of shame.
I think and infact hope that some negotiation will be undertaken to remain in the single market economy. This will entail some cost as it does to Norway for example. Certainly we will need to pay into the club and there will need to be free movement of labour. The EU will have demands and the UK is somewhat on the back foot now.
The UK press is alive with what a general election at the end of the year will bring. The lib dems are promising a second referendum. The conservatives may well put some partial remain offers in their manifesto. Parliament can indeed progress the matters.
I am a little upbeat about possibilities to find a solution that meets both BREXIT and REMAIN aspirations and compromise.. Given the developing and clear truths over our economy, plus the clear backlash from BREXIT. I think many from both sides will be interested to see what transpires.

waz-24-7 wrote:...The UK press is alive with what a general election at the end of the year will bring...

The Press will print anything that sells newspapers.

In general terms, the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act 2011 rules out the possibility of a 2016 general Election unless certain specific conditions are met.

Under this law, the House of Commons can trigger a general election only if it agrees to certain specific motions. Early elections can be held either:
• if a motion saying that there should be an early general election is agreed either (a) by at least two-thirds of the whole House in a formal vote or (b) without division (a formal vote); or
• if a motion of no confidence is passed and no alternative government is confirmed by the Commons within 14 days.
You can find out more about how this law works here.

So, although the Press may be 'alive with speculation', it doesn't mean anything.

Keithcaley wrote:

waz-24-7 wrote:...The UK press is alive with what a general election at the end of the year will bring...

The Press will print anything that sells newspapers.

In general terms, the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act 2011 rules out the possibility of a 2016 general Election unless certain specific conditions are met.

Under this law, the House of Commons can trigger a general election only if it agrees to certain specific motions. Early elections can be held either:
• if a motion saying that there should be an early general election is agreed either (a) by at least two-thirds of the whole House in a formal vote or (b) without division (a formal vote); or
• if a motion of no confidence is passed and no alternative government is confirmed by the Commons within 14 days.
You can find out more about how this law works here.

So, although the Press may be 'alive with speculation', it doesn't mean anything.

Good post backed up by facts and evidence......amazing!

The EU Parliament is holding an emergency meeting now and Jean-Claude Juncker is speaking about his regret that the UK is leaving and feels that Europe has had one of their wings cut off. He wants to speak to David Cameron today regarding the uncertainty the decision is causing and want's him to clarify it's position swiftly.. He says he respects British democracy. Juncker has already asked Nigel Farage "why are you here" when Nigel Farage clapped to one of Juncker's responses...saying also to him "that will be the last time you will clap here"

Jeanine -Hennis Plasschaert has said Article 50 can only be triggered by the UK and at present Europe is uncertain about the consequences, but will obey rules to deal with it in an orderly way and Union of 27 states will continue to keep it's citizens safe and they need unity to control huge flows of migrants.

Manfred Weber - German Centre Right has said to the young people in UK you can trust your friends in Europe we will not leave you on your own. He has accused Nigel Farage of lying to the people regarding the "350 million debacle" and should apologise to the British people and told hin "shame on you" to great applause. He has said that David Cameron has made his career on the back of UK and Europe and to stop bashing Europe(think he means in the past) He said there are no 2nd chances or a 2nd tier Europe. He has gone on about no leader, Boris Johnson, Farage and how Putin is happy with result saying "we all know what that means" in fact this guy has just completely slated the UK.

The are all have their turn to speak. Guy Verhofstadt - Belgian Liberal, continuing on about the lies on immigration, Turkey and the scaremongering. All aimed at Nigel Farage

Dalartokat wrote:The EU Parliament is holding an emergency meeting now and Jean-Claude Juncker is speaking about his regret that the UK is leaving and feels that Europe has had one of their wings cut off. He wants to speak to David Cameron today regarding the uncertainty the decision is causing and want's him to clarify it's position swiftly.. He says he respects British democracy. Juncker has already asked Nigel Farage "why are you here" when Nigel Farage clapped to one of Juncker's responses...saying also to him "that will be the last time you will clap here"

Jeanine -Hennis Plasschaert has said Article 50 can only be triggered by the UK and at present Europe is uncertain about the consequences, but will obey rules to deal with it in an orderly way and Union of 27 states will continue to keep it's citizens safe and they need unity to control huge flows of migrants.

Manfred Weber - German Centre Right has said to the young people in UK you can trust your friends in Europe we will not leave you on your own. He has accused Nigel Farage of lying to the people regarding the "350 million debacle" and should apologise to the British people and told hin "shame on you" to great applause. He has said that David Cameron has made his career on the back of UK and Europe and to stop bashing Europe(think he means in the past) He said there are no 2nd chances or a 2nd tier Europe. He has gone on about no leader, Boris Johnson, Farage and how Putin is happy with result saying "we all know what that means" in fact this guy has just completely slated the UK.

The are all have their turn to speak. Guy Verhofstadt - Belgian Liberal, continuing on about the lies on immigration, Turkey and the scaremongering. All aimed at Nigel Farage

Thank you,
Very informative,
Mr Farage has sunk in his own deep pit of independence.
I predict a delay in article 50 submission. Given that the UK government wanted REMAIN. I think some manoeuvring can be expected.
Bring on a general election and lets put it right!!

I don't really think that saying 'Bring on a General election!' has much chance of actually making it happen

See post 24

Keithcaley wrote:I don't really think that saying 'Bring on a General election!' has much chance of actually making it happen

See post 24

Possibly,
Democracy may demand it and certainly there is enough turmoil to call one.
I gather you are happy with current right wing government, A conservative voter? or possibly recently moved rather right of right wing?
I am a conservative voter but happy to go to the polls to revert the clear disastrous state of the nation right now.

waz-24-7 wrote: I am a conservative voter

Well we would never have guessed....

Groucho wrote:

waz-24-7 wrote: I am a conservative voter

Well we would never have guessed....

Groucho
Nothing to hide. Just amazed how right of right the BREXIT camp became.
Odds on that the BNP aligned firmly with BREXIT. What does that say?

This is why the experts and leaders were ignored. I guess you ignored all of them except the BNP and Mr Farage.
Has your politics changed? almost certainly I think.
Mine has definitely not.

Groucho. On a good note.
I said yesterday ...Buy gold...It has sored this morning.
Good news for some!!

waz-24-7 wrote:

Keithcaley wrote:I don't really think that saying 'Bring on a General election!' has much chance of actually making it happen

See post 24

...I gather you are happy with current right wing government, A conservative voter? or possibly recently moved rather right of right wing?...

Have I said that I was happy with any particular form of Government?

What have I written that would imply political leanings in any direction?

I was merely quoting some of the rules governing General Elections - facts gleaned from a UK Government website, and commenting that saying 'Bring on a General election!' doesn't stand much chance of actually making it happen.

It would not matter whether I wanted a Government composed of little green men from Mars - it would not alter the accuracy of my observation.

If you are resorting to slogans (for which you castigated some of those arguing against you) rather than using logic, then I suspect that you feel that you are either losing the arguement, or that you are running out of ideas.

Keith,
Not sure what the "argument" is.
The debate has moved to what happens now.

My point is that many, possibly yourself (but you will surely pass comment), supported a campaign that was very clearly right of right in terms of its agenda particularly upon immigrants.
Your points on the protocol for a general election is acknowledged and appreciated.

I do think that the Country may well go to a general election ( adhering to the said protocol) sooner rather than later.
The government and opposition both continue to want us to REMAIN in some form or another. Given that agenda. I think and hope that BREXIT will to an extent succeed on one hand but fail on another. Behind closed doors? We will see in the coming few weeks on that.
I think it hinges on a delayed article 50 submission or we are kicked out as soon as possible.

What is certain whatever. The pain and decline will persist and possibly deepen. A recession is def. on the horizon.
Already the institute of directors predict a - 2 % growth in this quarter. Please don't say scaremongering after what has transpired this week. Please!

no, the brexit is not legally binding and that was clear from the beginning.

also, it was never mentioned when and how (eg, in a written form?) the application reg article 50 will be done by the uk and from whom.

now, cameron does not want to do the application, but want to remain in office till october.
also boris says no hurry. and others as well.
UK say prelimary brexit negotiations should start before an application will be done.
farage says, UK wants a common market with no duties and no restrictions.

several EU leaders said that there will be no prelimary negotiations, instead: "until a final brexit, the uk remains a member of the eu with all rights and duties" and the UK should apply for article 50 asap.

it seems that EU wants a brexit more as the britsh ... or, in other words, the brexit supporters can be happy that the EU respects their will more as the UK government and its possible successors, (?)

waz-24-7 wrote:

Groucho wrote:

waz-24-7 wrote: I am a conservative voter

Well we would never have guessed....

Groucho
Nothing to hide. Just amazed how right of right the BREXIT camp became.
Odds on that the BNP aligned firmly with BREXIT. What does that say?

This is why the experts and leaders were ignored. I guess you ignored all of them except the BNP and Mr Farage.
Has your politics changed? almost certainly I think.
Mine has definitely not.

Groucho. On a good note.
I said yesterday ...Buy gold...It has sored this morning.
Good news for some!!

You do know the Conservative's are on the right wing of UK politics, so you have more in common with Farage and by extension the Neo Nazi's, than Left wing Labour and again by extension the socialist workers party (communists )?

waz-24-7 wrote:Keith,
Not sure what the "argument" is....

Well if you don't know the point that you are arguing with all those people in the other camp, then I give up!

...The debate has moved to what happens now.

No it hasn't! - well this part hasn't!

The point which I am currently debating with you is that spouting slogans on a TRNC forum will not make a General election happen, given current legislation. Nor will the Press being 'Alive with speculation' achieve anything, - except, possibly, sell more Newspapers

waz, I really think you need to get better information. You know that the FT is trading 2.4% up today but totally ignore that FACT as it does not fit in with your rhetoric. But you have just claimed that you told everybody to get into gold and this morning it has ' sored ' ( I think you meant soared) But I have just checked todays gold trading figures and you might be alarmed that it is actually down today!!!!!!! oh well as they say!!!!!. I hope you only bought one ounce, if so you have only lost 40$ in 4 hours trading.

Geoff1131 wrote:waz, I really think you need to get better information. You know that the FT is trading 2.4% up today but totally ignore that FACT as it does not fit in with your rhetoric. But you have just claimed that you told everybody to get into gold and this morning it has ' sored ' ( I think you meant soared) But I have just checked todays gold trading figures and you might be alarmed that it is actually down today!!!!!!! oh well as they say!!!!!. I hope you only bought one ounce, if so you have only lost 40$ in 4 hours trading.

Geoff,
I do think you are trying to gloss over things somewhat.

Ok given my position last Wednesday OR indeed your own.
Are we better off financially, less concerned about the UK as a United Kingdom, its economy and its prosperity?

I think we are less better off and worsening .
It is PAY back time as many warned. Please don't disbelieve that fact too

Sorry about spelling but thank you for the correction. All a bit in haste as at work.

waz, you think I am glossing over things???????????

That's a bit rich. I deal in FACTS not 'expert advice' According to you and your ' experts' if the UK took the step of leaving the EU then there would be financial meltdown. The Stock market would implode and the strength of Sterling would sink like a holed ship.
When in fact stability has returned to the markets and they are now trading higher than they were a week before the referendum.

Sterling did indeed take a bit of a hit, not unusual in the circumstances, but is now staging a rally you will be happy to hear, so no real panic there either.

In answer to your question, I do not feel any better off or any worse off this week having seen the country leave the EU. But then again, I never thought that it would be an instant gain, good lord man it has only been 5 days, give it time. I will come back to you in six months, as you yourself have stated, this is when we will see if it was the right thing to do for the country.

Until then I will offer some advice to you for free. Don't do anything in haste, like buying gold, you have to watch the market for your opportunity, buy low sell high is the way to go.

Geoff1131 wrote:waz, you think I am glossing over things???????????

That's a bit rich. I deal in FACTS not 'expert advice' According to you and your ' experts' if the UK took the step of leaving the EU then there would be financial meltdown. The Stock market would implode and the strength of Sterling would sink like a holed ship.
When in fact stability has returned to the markets and they are now trading higher than they were a week before the referendum.

Sterling did indeed take a bit of a hit, not unusual in the circumstances, but is now staging a rally you will be happy to hear, so no real panic there either.

In answer to your question, I do not feel any better off or any worse off this week having seen the country leave the EU. But then again, I never thought that it would be an instant gain, good lord man it has only been 5 days, give it time. I will come back to you in six months, as you yourself have stated, this is when we will see if it was the right thing to do for the country.

Until then I will offer some advice to you for free. Don't do anything in haste, like buying gold, you have to watch the market for your opportunity, buy low sell high is the way to go.

Geoff
I am sorry . You are grossly mistaken.
Sterling was $1.46 last Tuesday just 2 seconds ago on business exchange it was $1.32 That is a total collapse. In real terms it accounts to about $ 20 billion off UK GDP.
The markets have imploded not just in the UK but in Europe and the world to a lesser extent. Just like 2008 but worse!!

I do wish you were right and I was wrong really I would because it would be plain sailing now on in
Please, please get your facts right and I invite you to google: UK stocks, UK currency, UK credit rating, UK growth forecast,
Then please do come back into the debate.

waz you just carry on living in your world and I will occupy mine.

Geoff1131 wrote:waz you just carry on living in your world and I will occupy mine.

Of course
But please do not make mistakes upon your "facts"