Positives for Britains Future

[lee666]

Over the past four weeks there have been more discussions in & around the the Referendum.

I have watched lots of programmes since the result and as we have a result is it now time for everyone to pull together. Let's try and talk our country up instead of down, surely no one wants us to end up in a recession or am I wrong ??

Noticed this today and thought it worth posting;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rance.html

There you go, let's see where we go from here or am I just fooling myself this thread won't get highjacked as well.

[turtle]

Can't really see the point Lee,......this will only get closed like the rest.

[lee666]

Perhaps 'turtle' but surely we can have 'The Phoenix rises from the Ashes', we have to look & move forward as one now not two separate teams.

The time for boasting about winning, moaning about losing has to come to an end. Will we be truly happy if we end up in a recession, I don't think so.

[PoshinDevon]

Can't really see the point Lee,......this will only get closed like the rest.

Topics are not closed for no reason. The topic "The pound slides" had been going for a long time, however recent posts clearly showed that the topic had reached its peak.....rather than let things deteriorate and end up with personal insults the topic was closed. Not sure what you mean by "this will only get closed like the rest" as I am struggling to find many topics closed for no reason.

This topic has been started so lets see how things develop.

[waz-24-7]

Interesting meeting and most surely discussions today when the two female leaders of UK and Germany met for the first time.
Both ladies appeared to be upbeat and positive tho not giving anything away upon a time scale or terms of BREXIT.
I am confident in Mrs May to negotiate hard and secure the best possible deal. Certainly she has gone straight to the most influential and powerful leader. Tomorrow she does the same in France. Paving the way for a deal I suspect and hope.
I just wonder how many people expected or envisaged that our PM would take this important step . Certainly the hard core anti Europeans will be disgusted at the notion of talking with the "European dinosaurs"

[jofra]

I would not like to be a moderator on any forum related to any hobby, pastime, interest, belief - or anything!
The thorny dilemma of whether a thread is intended to "stimulate debate" or "provoke arguments" is and will be (IMO) one that can very rarely be resolved - each side of a viewpoint is almost certain to disagree on the above as well, so when any moderator makes a decision, I'm sure someone will disagree and contest that decision!
I'm just grateful that there are some masochists who are willing to take on this onerous duty - thanks!

[Dalartokat]

Interesting meeting and most surely discussions today when the two female leaders of UK and Germany met for the first time.
Both ladies appeared to be upbeat and positive tho not giving anything away upon a time scale or terms of BREXIT.
I am confident in Mrs May to negotiate hard and secure the best possible deal. Certainly she has gone straight to the most influential and powerful leader. Tomorrow she does the same in France. Paving the way for a deal I suspect and hope.
I just wonder how many people expected or envisaged that our PM would take this important step . Certainly the hard core anti Europeans will be disgusted at the notion of talking with the "European dinosaurs"

I certainly would have expected our PM to visit European leaders and I am not disgusted regarding her doing this. I am very happy that Theresa May is acting on our behalf considering David Cameron made no effort to leave a Plan B for a leave vote.. You are taking a very shallow view of the type of people that voted BREXIT. It will take time to get the talks started, meanwhile everyone needs to be upbeat, positive and understanding of any decisions made for the end result to leave the EU.

Meanwhile announcement from Sheffield Council that £220 miliion (first payment and many more over a long period)) investment in Sheffield on various projects to be made. Credit to George Osbourne in talks with Chinese Companies before Brexit vote. Investment is investment, money is money. Scotch Whisky will still be sold(strict regulations regarding sales)as normal to it's customers, maybe with the exception of Korea where a different Trade deal may have to be met. So everyone should be happy

Crucial elements are financial planning for EU and we have enough experts in UK to deal with this, if we don't they will be recruited. All my opinions.

[PapaBravo]

For what it is worth, I fully agree with the Mods decision to close the topic, "The Pound slides". It had run its course and had become very personal.

[Brazen]

And, of course, the pound has stopped sliding!

[PapaBravo]

And the FTSE 100 Index is still climbing!!

[kibsolar1999]

dalorcat:
considering David Cameron made no effort to leave a Plan B for a leave vote

how he can leave a plan B? he had a team to research what will may happen. some of these leaked and have been used in the remain campaign.
(eg, pound slides, FTS will go up (because its cheaper to buy now) and so on.

and iam sure that the gov administrators have started a plan B since a year or longer.... but those things are always in danger to be leaked.. so maybe not much have been done. but here, 4th of juli...
"UK Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne is planning to cut Britain's corporation tax to less than 15 per cent in an attempt to offset the shock to investors of the country's decision to leave the European Union, the Financial Times reported on Sunday. He told the newspaper he wanted to build a "super competitive economy" with low business taxes and a global focus.."

haha, so he supports companies, and reduces income for the public.

further: " Other elements of his plan to steer the economy through the upheaval caused by the Brexit vote included ensuring support for bank lending, intensifying efforts to direct investment to northern England and maintaining Britain's fiscal credibility, the FT quoted him as saying.
Last week, Osborne said he would no longer target a budget surplus in 2020 because of the expected hit to the economy from the referendum result, but he stressed he would continue to be tough on the deficit"

well, meaning, cut spendings. where? pensions? NHS? and what can May do different?

Merkel is not the person who is "offensive" (this may change today in france, but i do not believe this)
May said: we need time (till brexit application in 2017)
Merkel said: ok, take your time, but take not too much time. everything else can be solved later (after brexit application) .
nothing new. i expect that to be the first and last visit to Merkel.

and what did Osborne in china last year in september?
" A deal for China to finance the delayed Hinkley Point nuclear power station in Somerset paves the way for possible majority Chinese ownership of another nuclear plant at Bradwell in Essex".
fantastic. your nuclear power stations in the hand of chinese, the produced energy is double as expensive as renewable power + all safety + money problems, eg, about the rubbish, which the tax payer has to pay.
alternative would have been to erect eg, wind farms in... scotland, installed by european companies like siemens or nordex. nonono, we want the investment in ENGLAND.. and no EU any more...

there ARE some postives things about brexit, but nothing which be be possible with T. May.

"....and we have enough experts in UK to deal with this... "
really? this is absolutely new territory.
you can call back the 2 or 3000 people employed with the EU.

that surely is something positive....

[PoshinDevon]

Headline in Daily Telegraph dated 21 Jul 2016

ECONOMY DEFIES BREXIT DOUBTERS

Evidence contradicts project fear warnings from run up to EU vote says Bank of England.

The economy is showing no signs of a severe post brexit slowdown the Bank of England said yesterday. A survey by the bank has found no clear evidence of a sharp slowdown in the economy despite the severe warnings given about the risks of leaving the EU. Markets have stabilised after initial panic. Official figures also show record number of people in work and the FTSE 100 closed at its highest level for a year. The new chancellor Philip Hammond said the figures prove that as the economy adjusts to the effect of the decision to leave the EU, it is doing it from a position of economic strength. Sterling yesterday pushed higher in value against the dollar and the euro. FTSE yesterday at 6729.....highest close since Aug 2015.

Long way to go yet but the above is a long way from the doom and gloom predicted by those who voted to remain.

[waz-24-7]

Headline in Daily Telegraph dated 21 Jul 2016

ECONOMY DEFIES BREXIT DOUBTERS

Evidence contradicts project fear warnings from run up to EU vote says Bank of England.

The economy is showing no signs of a severe post brexit slowdown the Bank of England said yesterday. A survey by the bank has found no clear evidence of a sharp slowdown in the economy despite the severe warnings given about the risks of leaving the EU. Markets have stabilised after initial panic. Official figures also show record number of people in work and the FTSE 100 closed at its highest level for a year. The new chancellor Philip Hammond said the figures prove that as the economy adjusts to the effect of the decision to leave the EU, it is doing it from a position of economic strength. Sterling yesterday pushed higher in value against the dollar and the euro. FTSE yesterday at 6729.....highest close since Aug 2015.

Long way to go yet but the above is a long way from the doom and gloom predicted by those who voted to remain.

Way Way too early for this type of report.

Construction and automotive are currently indicating start of a slow down.
Characteristically it is construction that is the first bench mark of economic slow down as consumers become reluctant to commit to house move. Automotive is the close second follower as new cars move down the scale of importance.
These two important sectors indicate confidence within our internal economy that is driven.
Whilst I acknowledge the change in sterling and markets. We remain much worse off than we were 3 weeks ago.

Why no applause for the 350 £ million we now allegedly have to spend on the NHS. How about the reduction in immigration promised?
It all seems to be about propping up the view that leaving the EU is right. Long way from what BREXIT promised us !!

I am encouraged by our governments forward thinking and strategy to get over to see our European partners and get talking and negotiating ourselves out of the mess.

[elizabeth]

So now the Bank of England don't know what they're talking about !!
Nobody said it would all be roses overnight but for Gods sake Waz, try to at least recognise the positives that are there, I cannot believe that you are still going on with your gloom and doom, anyone would think you want the country to fail to prove you right .

[waz-24-7]

So now the Bank of England don't know what they're talking about !!
Nobody said it would all be roses overnight but for Gods sake Waz, try to at least recognise the positives that are there, I cannot believe that you are still going on with your gloom and doom, anyone would think you want the country to fail to prove you right .

Sorry Elizabeth but absolutely not.
I absolutely want the UK to succeed. The task ahead is tough , arduous and not without casualties.
It is disappointing that some are talking of positives within the UK economy that are just not reflective or possibly understood correctly.

I have said time and time again that it is far too early to quantify the damage of BREXIT.
BREXIT indeed painted a rosy picture of taking back control with Britain being great again.
Thanks!! Please someone show me the positives rather propping up their clear failure to read the predictions.
Anyone who thinks they will be better off generally is rather silly and has swallowed the lies and mistruths peddled by the BREXIT camp.

The way forward now and the positive action is for our government to negotiate hard with Europe and keep as many links as is possible under their mandate.
Small talk upon currency movements and markets now are somewhat irrelevant.
The Bank of England have made no statement to my knowledge that reflects the initial comment.
Their actions to prop up our currency and economy have cost us all very dear in the past weeks so I am very weary of the comment.

[PoshinDevon]

Personally I prefer to listen to the words of the governor of the Bank of England with regards to how the economy is performing. Backed up of course by fact that the FTSE 100 closed at its highest level yesterday since Aug 2015 and the pound has steadied and risen against the dollar and euro.

As I said a long way to go, but the economy has far from collapsed, there was no emergency budget and despite some predictions pre referendum the UK economy remains in a strong position.

[waz-24-7]

Personally I prefer to listen to the words of the governor of the Bank of England with regards to how the economy is performing. Backed up of course by fact that the FTSE 100 closed at its highest level yesterday since Aug 2015 and the pound has steadied and risen against the dollar and euro.

As I said a long way to go, but the economy has far from collapsed, there was no emergency budget and despite some predictions pre referendum the UK economy remains in a strong position.

Posh,
Clearly a change of heart as you failed to take their recommendation to REMAIN.
What is done is done and I agree we must now carry the consequences and start the campaign of recovery.
At least article 50 is not being submitted until at least next year. That is a positive and allows time to progress the essential and critical European trade deals that were so brashly dismissed by most.

" A long way to go" is agreed and certainly a long long way from the GREAT BRITAIN and EXCESS MONEY for the NHS that BREXIT promised.

[lee666]

Christ, another thread highjacked by Waz. I really wanted this thread to stay away from remains or leavers and start going forward as a team but the whinging is back.

I'm done !!

[PoshinDevon]

Personally I prefer to listen to the words of the governor of the Bank of England with regards to how the economy is performing. Backed up of course by fact that the FTSE 100 closed at its highest level yesterday since Aug 2015 and the pound has steadied and risen against the dollar and euro.

As I said a long way to go, but the economy has far from collapsed, there was no emergency budget and despite some predictions pre referendum the UK economy remains in a strong position.

Posh,
Clearly a change of heart as you failed to take their recommendation to REMAIN.
What is done is done and I agree we must now carry the consequences and start the campaign of recovery.
At least article 50 is not being submitted until at least next year. That is a positive and allows time to progress the essential and critical European trade deals that were so brashly dismissed by most.

" A long way to go" is agreed and certainly a long long way from the GREAT BRITAIN and EXCESS MONEY for the NHS that BREXIT promised.

Change of heart? Where did that come from?

I never had any change of heart. I posted 4 weeks ago that it was very difficult to decide whether to remain or leave and I never decided until a day or two before the vote. So no change of heart.

I do believe that the governor of the Bank of England knows what he is talking about, so I am happy that he has said project fear is not happening.

On that positive note I dont think I need say anything further.

[waz-24-7]

Posh.
Rather hypocritical. Mr Carney recommended REMAIN. You voted OUT but now you want to listen to him and indeed believe him. Something has clearly changed in your thinking.

Upon the BOE statement. The attached is most recent. I too can concur regarding businesses' moving back into the EU free trade zone.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fi ... ke-8460321

Positive. Is that my and your resolve to overcome the harm inflicted is strong and focused.

[Groucho]

Posh.
Rather hypocritical. Mr Carney recommended REMAIN. You voted OUT but now you want to listen to him and indeed believe him. Something has clearly changed in your thinking.

I think you'll find that it's Mark Carney's thinking which has changed - but then before the vote his strings were quite obviously being pulled by the Remain camp and now they are defunct he rightly sees no reason to continue with the scary rhetoric of the past.... Unlike you who is on a mission

[waz-24-7]

Posh.
Rather hypocritical. Mr Carney recommended REMAIN. You voted OUT but now you want to listen to him and indeed believe him. Something has clearly changed in your thinking.

I think you'll find that it's Mark Carney's thinking which has changed - but then before the vote his strings were quite obviously being pulled by the Remain camp and now they are defunct he rightly sees no reason to continue with the scary rhetoric of the past.... Unlike you who is on a mission

To be clear.
Mr Carney has not changed his basic view upon the damage to the UK economy. The BOE has reserved £billions to prop up our failing currency.
This is being paid for my you and I and all UK tax payers, working people and businesses.
You may have noticed the very recent sales of UK businesses to new offshore owners. The UK business landscape is currently like a fire sale as UK £ sterling based businesses have even in the last weeks become massively devalued, cheaper and open to takeover by hunters with strong currencies in their wallets. This is NOT good as profits and intellectual property migrates offshore. Some job opportunities will emerge but the price of losing control is certainly not good news.

I welcome you own views upon the apparent success of BREXIT. It appears to me that you and many others are struggling to provide any positives that have emerged. Plenty of "it will be OK eventually" " the remain camp were wrong" " sterling and markets are rising "
I see a lack of understanding and rationale on these statements. Clutching at straws springs to mind.
Can no one have the guts to stand up and say. I just may have got it wrong.

[Groucho]

Can no one have the guts to stand up and say. I just may have got it wrong.

Can you?

[waz-24-7]

Can no one have the guts to stand up and say. I just may have got it wrong.

Can you?

Yes,
On many occasions in my life, I have got things wrong, made mistakes and had regrets.
With regard to my stance upon remaining within the European Union. I have no regret or inclination that I have got things wrong. Why should I, given the truths that have become apparent in the last few weeks and also given the, to date failure of BREXIT to deliver.

However, I feel more positive that our exit from Europe will not be the absolute isolation that many have wanted and voted for. Europe has over past weeks on this forum been painted as an enemy that should be cast to the wolves and left to rot, Fortunately our new government is being rather more pragmatic and sitting down with European counterparts to resolve a difficult situation.

The crucial matter is access to the European single Market and freedom of movement of labour.

How would that vote go now within the UK and on this forum.

A new thread is invited.

[Soner]

Read title of this thread and try and stick to it.
Going off topic and having slagging matches will result in thread being closed.
If you are in the REMAIN group, then suggest you create a thread "Negatives".
If you want to see how people would vote now, then why not create a poll on the forum.

[lee666]

Soner, there us no point in starting another thread and no matter what you call it because 'waz' will just highjack it with his negativeness.

Every single thread that has been started is ruined by him.

[woodspeckie]

Just don't get involved with Waz he might go away if he doesn't get a response.

[kibsolar1999]

Soner, you are right.
The beginning of the tread was an article from dailymail, which tried to sell an immediate 0,2% slow down and another 1% in 2017 as a “positive” to their readers, although you need every penny.
(in 2017, EU down 0,2%, world down 0,1% )
The second attempt came from dalorkat, mentioning the investment of Sheffield, which surely was planned since a long time before brexit and surely is a necessity. Nothing “extra”, but at least not cancelled.
More positives? yes: FTSE is up (good?? And for whom?) and “all” became not as bad as predicted from remainers (GBP down 5- 10% only ) and waz is happy with T. May. That was it.
There is no announcement that the money saved for the EU WILL be spend for the NHS (actually, as I understood, all governments want to cut expenses…) , no announcement of how many will be accepted to Britain, no rise of the minimum wage, no tax cuts for middle and low wages.. no nothing.
The truth is, the “treatment pressure” for the government will grow and grow and the government has no clue what to do (nothing new) …..
„positives for britains future“ (in terms of economy) can not be seen (yet), but the negatives very well.
so, any positives would be more on the “social “ side. Eg, people go to the streets and urge the government to do “this and that” or, communities in XX came together to “take their country back”.. .. whatever. Before the referendum, T.Mays approval value was as low as F. Hollandes, now she is PM and the tories “better in power as ever”. No call for new elections from anywhere to get rid of… the formally traitors….
Nobody “ fights “ for the “new Britain”. All silent, instead morale-boosting slogans only
at the moment it seems, both remainers and brexiteers are sitting in front of the snake, unable to do anything. And trust their government, something completely new.
Was THAT the real reason for a referendum? To leave you no choice as trusting (them)?

[waz-24-7]

Soner, you are right.
The beginning of the tread was an article from dailymail, which tried to sell an immediate 0,2% slow down and another 1% in 2017 as a “positive” to their readers, although you need every penny.
(in 2017, EU down 0,2%, world down 0,1% )
The second attempt came from dalorkat, mentioning the investment of Sheffield, which surely was planned since a long time before brexit and surely is a necessity. Nothing “extra”, but at least not cancelled.
More positives? yes: FTSE is up (good?? And for whom?) and “all” became not as bad as predicted from remainers (GBP down 5- 10% only ) and waz is happy with T. May. That was it.
There is no announcement that the money saved for the EU WILL be spend for the NHS (actually, as I understood, all governments want to cut expenses…) , no announcement of how many will be accepted to Britain, no rise of the minimum wage, no tax cuts for middle and low wages.. no nothing.
The truth is, the “treatment pressure” for the government will grow and grow and the government has no clue what to do (nothing new) …..
„positives for britains future“ (in terms of economy) can not be seen (yet), but the negatives very well.
so, any positives would be more on the “social “ side. Eg, people go to the streets and urge the government to do “this and that” or, communities in XX came together to “take their country back”.. .. whatever. Before the referendum, T.Mays approval value was as low as F. Hollandes, now she is PM and the tories “better in power as ever”. No call for new elections from anywhere to get rid of… the formally traitors….
Nobody “ fights “ for the “new Britain”. All silent, instead morale-boosting slogans only
at the moment it seems, both remainers and brexiteers are sitting in front of the snake, unable to do anything. And trust their government, something completely new.
Was THAT the real reason for a referendum? To leave you no choice as trusting (them)?

Very valid points
Thank you
The positives that I see are indeed the fact that our PM is being proactive in meeting with major European Leaders to commence discussions on the UK future in Europe.
The fact that we now have a new government gives me and clearly the markets an increased level of confidence upon the future.
With a predominantly pro European government in power in the UK the negotiations upon brexit will reflect that. Critical will be the access to the Single market and the free movement of labour which appears to be on the entrance ticket.

Yes certainly we are all now absolutely in the hands of our government and indeed in the hands of the European leaders that many so desperately want to break away from.

[kibsolar1999]

waz, please...

your PM is not "proactive". your new PM did what all new presidents, PMs.... do: they go for a first official visit.
in germany always the questions comes up: first visit to poland or first visit to france?

in germany it woud be unthinkable to have such a referendum (80 % are pro EU anyway, 5-10% say "i do not know") , but in such a case it would be also unthinkable that we would not have new elections.
NOBODY would talk to the (usually coalition) government any more, and our second parliament, the bundesrat, would refuse any further cooperation.
and... the UK needs a proper representation of all of your society... you need a new election system.

[terry2366]

Kibsolar I thought you were not allowed to have national referendums in Germany only state one. My partner is from east Germany and disagrees strongly with the 80% pro eu statement there is a large movement away from the idea of being governed by Brussels and the migrant crisis and the cost to Germany especially since brexit of keeping the med states afloat. Do you really think Merkel will be reelected in 2017? . Sorry off topic.

[kibsolar1999]

yes, no permission for national referendums... as i said, unthinkable...

haha, he east germans... due to history, they show some sort of a "delayed allergic reaction".
like poland and hungary... which got strongly right governments..

beeing against Merkel and her politics in general, does not mean that someone is against her "war migrants politics".
that is widely supported over the party barriers and also supported from the public.
eg, greens and lefts only say that "not enough is done" for them.

12-15% are AfD ( = Alternative for Germany, some sort of UKIP and seriously quarreling all the time ) supporters.
80% of them are anti EU , comes to apporox 10-12% anti EU.
90% of the other ones know excactly about the advantages of the EU and are, at the end, pro EU.
that the germans feel "governed by Brussels" is a myth, but many think that the EU has no sufficent power to make changes and are therefore sceptical, but not anti EU.
they also know that the "med crisis" can only be solved in an "european effort" = a Dexit (D= Deutschland = germany) would not help a lot = in a couple of years we have the same s*** in germany..
dont you think we have not problems already also in the "north countries" as well? deutsche bank announced a quarterly profit of 20 million euro, down from a couple of billions some years ago!
is that good or bad?
we are in the middle of a crisis (NOT caused by med countries and migrants and "the EU construction", it is caused by banks and the financial system... incl tax havens and so on.. ) and the "only answer" of the british is the brexit, which could be a positive thing (come back to topic) , but it is not.
because, you are not governed from "visionairs" , you are ruled from people which are "part of the system for centuries".
so, nothing really will change. exept that you may go bancrupt (sooner) and the rich become even richer.
the rich may also lose some money.. but in a couple of years you will that the richest 1% do not own 25% of the country, it went up to 40%. so they gained power instead. also very valuable.
brexit = the revanche of the aristocrats. haha.

come back to your question:
as long a "red-red- green" coalition (social democrats say, at the moment 22-24 % , lefts, 10% and greens 12%) can not be formed, i think Merkel will remain in power. ( at the moment 31% christian democrats + 23 social democrats = 54%)