Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Has anyone had the new smart water meters installed for mains water, if so what was the cost of the meter.

We had ours installed over a year ago to replace an existing meter. The cost was 360TL, the actual cost would have been higher if we hadn't had a meter. This was the cost in Esentepe but different Belediye have different charges, best thing to do is go to your Belediye and ask them direct.

come_on_aylin,

I wish I had spoken to the same guy as you did to get your meter. I live in Bahceli and we are being told by Esentepe Belediye that we will have to pay 2000tl for a card meter and we also have to pay for the water line to be laid to our site which is going to be a total cost of 97680tl spread between 29 owners of property on the road up to our site, and the 45 owners on our site, so 1320tl each. Might have to come out of retirement or rob a bank to get this water!!!!

Geoff.

Geoff, I went to Esentepe Belediye yesterday to enquire about the new water costs. I was told: Tranche 2 of the new meter supply will be 2000 TL even if you have an old meter. Then 650 TL for infrastructure costs if you live in Esentepe village and 1200 TL for infrastructure costs for elsewhere, even though we have already laid piping to each house on our small estate of 33 dwellings. Then KDA, making the total cost of 3271 TL before a drop enters the meter. Cost per tonne outside of Esentepe village will be 9 TL per tonne as opposed to the cost in the village of 5.5 TL per tonne. Whether there will be a minimum quantity per month (ie - 10 tonne minimum whether you use it or not) was not answered).

I guess our support for the schools, village facilities and local businesses will dry up (sic). Expat cash cows being ripped of again.

Tom this is getting more and more ridicules. How can water in the village be one price and water further down the road be twice as much? it's the same cost to the Belediye from the water company. I know there is a lot of anger about this situation, it seems that Esentepe is not following other councils in their charging structure. The government should have stipulated costs for this water before now. It is common knowledge that not all property is connected to the municipal supply and i'm sure the water company and Turkey in general want as many people to benefit from this water as possible but there has to be a fair system. Where I live, there are 4 sites off the access road from the main coast road and the total cost for all properties for the infrastructure is being quoted at 97680tl!!!!!!!!!! between 74 properties. Approx 500meters of 50mm pipe costs around £400. Someone is havin a larffffff.

Geoff, I was advised by a Cypriot neighbour, incensed at this exploitation of non Cypriot and Turkish Mainlanders, to take this case to the Minister for the Interior in Lefkosa. But how do I get access to him, my Turkish is pants and I do not have any written facts from Esentepe Belediye to present, its only words from office staff with limited English.

I was also told the water cost in the Turtle Bay complex was 9 TL and we would pay the same when it comes on line. Everywhere outside of the village boundary would pay this cost. I wait to see if locals pay the same price for meters, infrastructure and actual water per tonne as expats!!! If so, then we have limited ammunition to fire. However, if there are different costs according to race/status, then the gloves are off.

Geoff,

We had to pay for about 1 km of road to be laid to our houses in 2007, as part of the deal the Belediye agreed to lay the water mains. If I recall correctly the cost was £45,000 between 3 separate developments, about 24 houses so £1875 per house. As far as I'm aware everyone who got the 1st tranche of meters paid the same, 360TL. Since we've had the meter it has shut off at least 4 times and when it's been reported to Belediye it takes at least a week to be fixed. I reported our neighbour's on 28th June and have been to the office 3 times since and it still hasn't been fixed. So there has been no water to the house in over a month. All things considered, it may be cheaper and less hassle to remain on tanker delivery than pay out for the infrastructure and cost of water, based on the figures you've quoted.

tomsteel wrote:Geoff, I was advised by a Cypriot neighbour, incensed at this exploitation of non Cypriot and Turkish Mainlanders, to take this case to the Minister for the Interior in Lefkosa. But how do I get access to him, my Turkish is pants and I do not have any written facts from Esentepe Belediye to present, its only words from office staff with limited English.

I was also told the water cost in the Turtle Bay complex was 9 TL and we would pay the same when it comes on line. Everywhere outside of the village boundary would pay this cost. I wait to see if locals pay the same price for meters, infrastructure and actual water per tonne as expats!!! If so, then we have limited ammunition to fire. However, if there are different costs according to race/status, then the gloves are off.

You are a man of many words Tom.

i remember only to well the reaction to a very high rate Brit who was outraged at the price of the water meter being fitted last year.After 15 minutes of listening to the Brit ranting on-the guy in the office put down his pen and said"No payment No Water".

Suffice to say the Brit paid up.

Sums up the situation quite nicely.

We were told by Carrington that the cost per tonne in Sunset Valley will be 5.5 Tl per tonne. As we are currently paying 15 Tl it makes the Turkish water a reasonable deal, despite the super profit being made on the smart meter. As cost of 9 Tl is being quoted; could anybody confirm which price is correct please?
What concerns me is that once we have paid our £800 + we will be in the hands of a monopoly who could easily increase the price per tonne. To be competitive they would have to charge marginally less that the cost of tanker water but on this basis owners would probably never recover the capital cost of connection.

Fine Art, but what was the final price you paid for the new meter, installation and price per tonne as opposed to what we are expected to pay? Why is there a two-tiered pricing system? Is it not the same water from the same source using the same filtration and supply system?

BrightonJim, the only way you will get a definite answer is to go and personally enquire, as I did. Once you have the answer, please publish it.

I'm on your side Tom and yes living in the village I only paid 370 TL for the meter and 240 TL for the connection.

The point I'm making is this - what choice will you have and what can you do about it?.

I'm with you on this one- assuming your information is correct- it's absolutely outrageous.

Art, forgive me if I appeared to be sniping, I did not intend to! I guess our choices are:

Pay up.
Complain to a higher authority about the unfairness and discrimination. (? to whom though).
Do not accept mains and continue with tankers - which we are likely to do.

The Mayor's utter failure to inform is appalling! I guess his mind is on his new Merc, the beach and his folly at the entrance off the main road.

Dear all,

I have read the threads and the comments and reached a conclusion.

Expats feel they've been "hard done" or taken granted as rich retired millionaires, they can afford any price thrown at them in relation "say" to water, electricity, and gas " three essential services everyone must have". The council say pay, and we all pay, some of course pay more than others?!!!! very illogical !!!!!!!

People living within Esentepe Boundaries,
why don't you gather in mass outside the Beledyia "Council offices" and show your disapproval of the discrimination. Let the officials hear your voices and concerns as ONE Voice.
Let them finally accept that your are not "pockets", you are part of the society and want to be treated equally as the locals. You are contributing to the economy, tourism, etc., etc.,, and you deserve to have the services same as the guy living next door to you, or and the furthest away from you. Enough is enough....

Don't be intimidated if the officials showed no interest, as there are many methods to bring the issue of inequality via media, internet, word of mouth, leaflets and organising other gathering.... Its time to stand up and deal with it face to face.
No one likes confrontation, yet it is important to let them see you are a large population and your demands are basic requirement for living in this part of the island.
Why some people on meters, and piped water, while others are forced to pay 20tl a ton from outsiders??? why some people able to get a water tanker from the council delivered to them, while others "expats" are told to go and purchase waters from outsiders???. This is the how the council loosing, money instead goes into the council "coffers" lost to the outsiders, and the employees were left unpaid for months.

perhaps you suggest
pay for meter installation and water same as the locals, and remind them " a bottle of gas, and petrol" cost same for everyone" in any outlets. What makes water and electricity supply be different????

As for the cost of laying the pipes should be done as follow,
1. Costs can be added to the local taxes and can be paid in instalments. Not everyone can afford lump sum near 3000tl..
2. Take the total cost of the project and divide it / spread it "equally" to the population of Esentepe boundaries "all to pay equal amount" regardless. Its simple maths and applied everywhere in the world. Now its the time, as the local authorities are preparing for relying / upgrading All the pipes and reorganising the local infrastructure. Don't let the opportunity slip away from you , it comes only once...
We all pay equally for streetlight "whether we have it or not"... same must be applied to water supply regardless of distance and location.

People, and I am NOT talking about the locals and expats, all must be given the option of either pay in instalments or a lump sum. No preferential treatment any more. You live on this island, breath the same air as everyone else, therefor you are entitled to be treated with dignity.

one final word. Gather in mass in front of the council building and let them accept they are doing you wrong. put the petition forward. if you get nowhere, keep going back until they accept that "you are vital part of the economy". Call for other expats, locals and Turks support from other areas.
Force them to look into this matter with "logic & fairness" in mind.

One ant with the help of other ants made the elephant to "GET OUT OF THE WAY".
fatsam

fatsam, a very +ve post. However, in the TRNC it is illegal for expats to gather for mass protests action as was discovered in Lefkosa in the K5 action two years ago when many were threatened with arrest by the police. The Mayor is aware of this law and his unfair decision. Maybe, if Cypriots ARE also affected, they will gather to protest, which we can bystand, but not get involved in.

Nothing in this earth stops a person from calling for what is rightfully his.
Like you and others I raised an opinion with One intention in mind:
1. identify the problem,
2. suggest a possible solution and resolution
3. achieve positive outcome.

you may not like it, but then it doesn't mean it can not be done. This is TRNC, and the local authorities are put for the benefit of the community. Engaging them into a dialogue is first step towards solution.


Want to change a situation one must act if not alone, at least with the support of others who know that change may effect them.
There are many Expats who have influence on local authorities,
There are expats who know the ins and outs of the local authorities, they might not tell everyone, but for sure they know how to get their and who to talk to, to achieve what they need. Those people can kick start a petition and arrange a gathering within the frame of Law.
Raising a petition and handing it collectively to the local mayor is not an act of crime, its a positive move towards "equality", and community spirit.

Belly aching and dancing round the issue does not resolve any matter, in fact it creates negative feelings, hate and resentment towards the authority.

I wish you read and understand the context of my suggestions, rather than concentrating on "K5, mass protest act". such example does not provide a solution nor help that person " tripled charged for water "Shameful act"

Explore the grey area, you never know you might find the perfect solution hidden within it.
fatsam

You may actually find the solution written into the TRNC constitution as well, never forget that the TRNC is big on equality for all - they just don't like to admit it openly!

OK guys, give me the 'in' and believe me; I'll exploit it.

"IN"??? Research, research, research - it beats moaning every time: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitu ... ern_Cyprus

No-one is moaning waddo just debating to find a solution.

As for the Constitution:
Article 13: The Status of Aliens[edit]
The rights and liberties referred to in this Constitution may be restricted by law in respect of aliens, in accordance with international law.

I just knew that Waddo was an Alien

So the next job is to find a law that says that they can overcharge you, by any amount they like...for anything they like...whenever they like...

Thanks for that waddo, a useful link. However, where does it state we are all, irrespective of race, distance from the Belediye etc, to be treated as equals please?

Cyprus Today may be able to attract more support from those who do not use this forum

gripon, thanks. I'm still collection 'fact' before approaching the media. Regrettably, investigative journalism is in scant supply here in the TRNC and reporters will be even less inclined to pry into 'the system' after the round up of their colleagues in Turkey. Thanks anyway for a +ve contribution to an injustice being committed by those in power.

If we know the make/manufacturers name we may be able to get some idea of cost

Trying to find out what meter and the contracted price for fitting etc as opposed to belidiye added charges.

Apparently the meters being used on the west side of Girne are manufactured in Turkey by a company called Euromet. I have found their website but it is in Turkish with no English translations so cannot find the cost of the meters. The website is euromet.com.tr if anyone can understand Turkish.

Geoff

Thanks Geoff. Geographically, Esentepe is east of Girne so this may be of no use. However, if it is the same model, my Cypriot neighbour will be able to translate.

Article 8 TRNC Constitution

Every person shall be equal before the Constitution and the law without any discrimination. No privileges shall be granted to any individual, family, group or class.
The organs and the administrative authorities of the State are under an obligation to act in conformity with the principle of equality before the law and not to make any discrimination in their actions.

UN Convention on the elimination of racial discrimination signed by Turkey:

2..(a) Each State Party undertakes to engage in no act or practice of racial discrimination against persons, groups of persons or institutions and to en sure that all public authorities and public institutions, national and local, shall act in conformity with this obligation;

The Baskan of Esentepe should be able to provide details of the law, and the state necessity, permitting him to discriminate against "aliens" and to ignore the Convention.
The £eagle

Thank you £eagle. I will pass this on.

I was not suggesting anybody was moaning - it was just the use of a common term! I note that you now have the answer to the last question you asked me Tomsteel so I am happy with that. Perhaps this URL http://www.mahkemeler.net/cgi-bin/default.aspx may also be of some use - warning here that the majority of the information is in Turkish and it is convoluted to say the least. I have spent many hours Google translating, which we all know is not perfect, various bits and pieces of it that were of interest to me. Maybe, if you have the time - and it does take up lots of time - anyone with an interest in any part of the law can have a further play.

Before anyone thinks otherwise, I am on the side of zero discrimination in all matters and think that what the various belediye are attempting to do is plain theft and nothing less!

I watch this thread with interest but having my own well I am tempted to just have the meter taken away as over the past two months I have only had a total of 7 ton of water through the mains! If I had had to rely on that amount my garden would now be dead and we would most certainly smell - lol. Good luck people, fight the good fight.

waddo, another thanks.

waddo wrote: I watch this thread with interest but having my own well I am tempted to just have the meter taken away as over the past two months I have only had a total of 7 ton of water through the mains! If I had had to rely on that amount my garden would now be dead and we would most certainly smell - lol. Good luck people, fight the good fight.

I can't find a reference and I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first or the last time!) but I seem to recall reading somewhere that once the new water system is in place even those with private water wells will have to pay a charge, based on water being a "national resource" which belongs to all the people.

Or am I dreaming I saw that?

Mowgli597, no you are not dreaming. When I went up to Esentepe to get info about the water system I was told that all wells would be checked and most would be cut off. He also said that a law would soon be passed to make it a punishable offence to sell water from a well without the consent of the new water company. So it looks like more people will be effected by this than at first appears.

Ah. Thanks Geoff. The Alzheimer's hasn't kicked in yet, DG!

Hi Geoff. A few questions on wells.

How will they cut off wells located on private property?
If my tanker driver uses a well outside of the Esentepe Belidiye area of control, how can they stop him? He is located in another Belediye's area and nothing to do with Girne.

Incidentally, our Cypriot friends from Beyarmudu visited yesterday for lunch. He was staggered that Esentepe wanted over 3700 YTL for metering and installation and at a cost of 9 YTL per tonne. His metering/installation was free and his cost is 2.5 YTL per tonne and that's in a rural village. His wife is an advocate for the Government and was more than interested. I hope she makes some enquiries.

Hi Tom, I don't know how they will police this, but the guy I spoke too said they know where most of the wells are and that they would have ' inspecters ' going around the area to check and see if wells are being used. I hope your friend gets involved and helps us all to get a fair solution.

Legally and officially - yeah - all wells are supposed to be licensed! Permission has to be obtained to first dig a well and then that well is placed on the kocan (deeds) of the property where the well is. No two wells can be within 50 mtrs of each other either - legally!! At the back of my property in the woodland areas there are three wells in existence that must date back to Adam or Mohamed if you like, all of them are open to the air, none of them are in use and all of them are deep - in excess of 40 mtrs - with good water in each one. They are not on any deeds and nobody uses them at all - they can be capped with a concrete cover but that would take work - not a popular pastime - so I think they will stay that way till I arrange my own cheap burial - lol. How they will ever even begin to police the use of wells is quite beyond me as they can't even sort out the provision of water yet - it will be a long time before I will start to worry over my well! I can, however, see that the poor tanker water suppliers will be hammered once the mains water finally comes on line - less work and less money for more people, sad. My well is over 40 mtrs deep and if they want to come and fill it with concrete - that's the only way you can successfully cap it - then good luck to them, the original idea was that the well supply would also be metered and you would end up paying for that as well - lack of meters will kill that and of course the more cunning people will easily by-pass the meter on the well so I think that will be a non-starter as well. When it comes down to it the rule of thumb here is always the same - if it takes work to do it then it won't happen!!

One of my Cypriot friends, tells me that wells that are left in use will also be fitted with a meter and charged at the same rate as mains water. Also I thought I read on this forum that the maximum price will be 7tl per ton but in exceptional circumstances, this could be raised to 9tl, for things like renewal of pipes etc.

Can you please ask your Cypriot friend if the cost of well pump replacement and well maintenance will also be covered by the well water charges and if the electric costs for pumping/provision of the water from supply (the well) will also be paid by the belediye? Stupid questions I know but experience tells me that if you ask difficult questions that involve money right at the start then it becomes too hard for the belediye to manage and the problem seems to vanish as the work load increases! Just an alien view of course!!

Graham Brown, Esentepe, will be interviewing the Esentepe Mayor today about the water situation and raising the questions posted on this forum. Watch this space for Graham's answers to his questions.

With reference to
"Every person shall be equal before the Constitution and the law without any discrimination. No privileges shall be granted to any individual, family, group or class.
The organs and the administrative authorities of the State are under an obligation to act in conformity with the principle of equality"

This constitutional law of the land has never been followed since cash cows were first milked ! So why in earth do we ever think things will ever change in the North ?
The slow max exodus of ex pats leaving the island still does not deter the constant rip off culture !

I hope Graham records the interview! At the very least takes a native Turkish speaker with him to make notes!

What is charging for well water going to do to the price of tankered water? All the water carriers get their water from wells. If they have to pay the going rate for metered water then that would be a straight on-cost to their prices as every other overhead wil remain the same.

Tatlisu resident recently paid1200TL
for infrastructure plus 300TL for smart meter ?

Thanks gripon, more grist to the mill of inequality from Esentepe.

Has anyone heard what happened yesterday at the meeting with the Mayor of Esentepe? I am still hearing lots of reports of different people on different sites all paying different amounts. It really is a confusing situation. I can understand to a point that people are being asked to contribute to the cost of laying the pipework to their properties but I cannot for the life of me understand how the figures are arrived at. On our site we are being told that the supply will cost nearly 100000tl when the cost of the pipe is around £400 and it would take a JCB digger no more than 3 days to dig and backfill the trench. Even then why are we being asked to pay around 6 times more for the same meters?

I live in Lapta and they were installed without charge.

Graham Brown has just posted this on FB... OK everyone the interview with the mayor of Esentepe is now on line at http://www.meteor.org.uk .

Have viewed it. However, the questions as to different costs etc were not asked. No further forward - IMHO.