Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Just wondering whether anyone has heard of Wellington Estates Ltd who claim to be developers registered in TRNC and UK (Cardiff). They also claim that they build properties on land which is own by themselves and therefore will have no discrepancies with future claims via GC wanting their land back. They also claim that the land which their properties are built on come with a Land Guarantee Indemnity?

The reason I am asking is that they have a villa for sale in Esentepe (£300000) which was originally built 'off plan' which a colleague of mine is interested in purchasing and the above seems to good to be true.

Friends bought from this company and from their experiences I would avoid them like the plague!!!
The claims you quote above about claims from GC are at best doubtful and as for any guarantees, they do not exist in TRNC.

You can check on any company registered in the UK free on line by logging onto Companies House. Of course you need to be fairly financially savvy to interpret the info they give, but you may be able to pick up a few hints, in particularly whether or not they are actually UK registered! How long they have traded, who the Directors are etc. and what the Report and Accounts say.

As far as I am aware Esentepe (Ayios Amvrosios) pre '74 was primarily a GC village, so I would take those claims with a large pinch of salt.

There is but one sure-fire guarantee offered to "yabancılar" in the TRNC. If we can screw you for money, we most certainly will do so at every opportunity.

I am Leslie Hardy, Director of Wellington Estates Ltd. The Cardiff address is an agency office in the UK. We are a TRNC incorporated company.

Our TRNC incorporation allows us to purchase land in TRNC and then construct and market properties. As we use our own money to buy land, we make extensive checks to ensure there has been no Greek Cypriot history of ownership or use pre 1974.

Wellington Estates Ltd gives guaranties to all customers that there will never be a Greek Cypriot claim on any property we build on our own land.

It would be interesting to know who underwrites your guarantees? As stated above the Esentepe area was virtually all Greek owned pre 74 & the land was mostly gifted to Turkish/Bulgarian settlers & called TMD it was not treated as 'Exchange' land where Turkish Cypriots were awarded points for land they had lost in the South.

ozankoy, excellent point. Who, in the TRNC, guarantees anything with the security expats from Europe had been accustomed too? I recall a TRNC Government guarantee to the Ormans - never materialised, nor was it ever likely to either.

I think that anyone considering any sort of a deal with Wellington estates or Mr Leslie Hardy should read this first (right to the end!): -

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/1928.asp

My goodness Keith, that really is a blast from the past, especially the frequent complaints re a certain solicitor!! Eight years ago and I wonder just how many of the problems aired are still on going i.e. like us, no Title Deeds then and no sight of them now or in the foreseeable future. Having read your Cyprus 44 thread from start to finish, Wellington Estates and "barge poles" would appear to be the order of the day!

Esentepe was most defiitely a GC village pre-74. I did an article on the village, speaking to the village historian. Basically, the people of Esentepe in TRNC came from a village called Esentepe near Polis in the RoC . They "swapped" villages with the Greek Cypriots who were in Esentepe first and the GCs went to Polis.

carrierbag, perhaps they are not well versed in Cyprus history in most parts of Wales.

Thanks for the interest in Wellington Estates Ltd.
The thread from a previous bulletin board, dated 2008 is certainly 'a blast from the past' There is one disgruntled comment and several favourable ones.

The disgruntled person paid us a non refundable deposit of £2,000 for a bespoke new build. We visited her and drew up several sets of plans, Her circumstances changed and she decided not to proceed.

We do offer warranties against any future Greek Cypriot claims on all new build properties, constructed by ourselves, on land owned by Wellington Estates Ltd..
We also act as Estate Agents for properties built by other companies, and we have advertised several properties in Esentepe. These are not covered by our warranty.

A warranty issued by a Ltd Co here is not worth the paper it is written on, so who underwrites them?

Mr Hardy, there has been 3 posts seeking information as to the underwriter of your company's guarantee or warranty (whatever semantic term is preferred.) Could or would you please answer this question? I reiterate my point that not even the TRNC Government honoured its guarantee, so who will do so for Wellington Estates Ltd?

The land we own has been paid for out of our own resources. There are no loans secured on our land. The company has no loans whatsover.
We offer mortgages to customers from our own funds and the warranty we offer is also covered by our own funds. As you suggest, no TRNC or international bank or insurance company would grant or underwrite such a warranty.

The warranty is limited to properties built on land we ourselves own. There are 2 sites at Karsiyaka, 1 at Vogue Beach, Catalkoy and another at Kumyali, near the Karpaz peninsula.
http://www.wellestates.com/

Thank you for your answer.

Could Mr hardy please tell the readers that from 2006 to date how many houses he has built, around 30 can we say. From those 30 houses that have paid in full how many have their deeds\ kocans. 0 to 2, 5 to 10, 20. to 30. I'm guessing none. Be interesting to see if any wellington customers come on this site and say they have their deeds. Obviously Marilyn has hers.

Mr Hardy can you also update your website regarding Oram case. They actually lost the case in the EU courts and the way I am reading the details within your website its as if they won? Misleading with out of date information encouraging purchasing in TRNC?

Message 23, no response, I wonder why???

I guess nobody has them, l wonder why. Another point, if Wellington under right their own guarantees, if ever there was a claim, which could be multiple, they could go into liquidation and make the guarantees invalid. Just a thought.

Tojo, and a very, very relevant one as well.

No doubt WE will be keen to reassure readers here of their financial strength, to underwrite guarantees, by publishing their latest audited accounts.

It doesn't appear that Mr Hardy wants to debate , I think he's left the building.
He has offered his guarantee, it remains only for me to offer mine. That is anyone contemplating buying a property from Wellington Estates and paying the full asking price requested by Mr Hardy and after signing a contract in the presence of solicitors. Only then will you be asked to pay extra cash for whatever Mr Hardy thinks he can get away with, including extra payments for deeds/kocans. So extortionate are his demands for cash, To date no one has a kocan/deed. If by chance someone did pay his demand, let me guarantee this, you would be hard pushed to resell your property for the amount you have paid Wellington Estates. Further who would guarantee Mr Hardy would then produce your deeds /kocan. I would not
And Mr Hardy states there has been only one small complaint since 2008.

Well Mr Hardy from Wellington Estates Ltd, Cardiff any responses to the last few posts?

Well, Hardyboy, I think you have hit the nail on the head. I suppose we need to be careful not to jepadise the credibility of this company, then again, I suppose we do not need to. Mr Hardy's actions is enough.

Thanks for the contributions. I have already dealt with the matter of guarantees we offer to customers against any dispossessed Greek Cypriot claims.
In the unlikely event of any valid claims, our TRNC land assets are sufficient to cover several claims.

Regarding the number of properties we have built since 2006, payments by customers and the issue of title deeds, I am not prepared to disclose details of our operations to anonymous and possibly malicious persons on a public bulletin board. Neither am I prepared to disclose the number of customers with existing mortgage agreements.

Regarding the Orams case, it is true that the Orams lost their case at the European Court, despite the efforts of Cherie Blair. This is stated on our website together with the fact that the Orams vacated the property. I see no reason to alter or update our reports of this matter.

The accusations made by 'HardyBoy' are untrue and defamatory. If there are customer complaints, these are dealt with in a professional way. If 'HardyBoy' knows of disgruntled customers, perhaps he could kindly suggest that they contact me directly.

I have friends who have purchased from this company who have given up trying to get kocans because of the extortionate costs that the company have added to the original purchase prices. From friends comments everything hardyboy has said is true.
The owner of wellington refuses to give information requested by earlier posters because he knows it will prove the points made eg number of properties sold compared to number of kocans issued.

There is only one safe way to build in TRNC. First you buy a piece of land that belonged to a TC before 1974 and only build on it once the title deed is in your hands. There is no other guarantee, even if the lawyer tells you otherwise. Too many Brits and returning TCs have burnt their fingers on promises.

I think this gives the game away.

Wellington Estates Property Limited is an active company incorporated on 16 September 2015 with the registered office located in Hertfordshire. Wellington Estates Property Limited has been running for 11 Months. There are currently 1 active directors and 0 active secretaries according to the latest annual return submitted on 16 September 2015.

Wellington estates do not want to publish details on a public forum, they do not need to, they are already on a public site. See Right move Northern Cyprus, the company is up for sale, 1.9 million sterling. It details the mortgages, and also states; " and Title Deeds are registered in the name of the vender", which implies that nobody has their kocans. It also states that, " all sites have trnc planning permissions and building permits". However, some of the sites have had alterations, which one would assume means they need to reapply, which would need to meet current regulations.
Hardyboy is correct, believe it.

wellington wrote:The warranty is limited to properties built on land we ourselves own. There are 2 sites at Karsiyaka, 1 at Vogue Beach, Catalkoy and another at Kumyali, near the Karpaz peninsula.
http://www.wellestates.com/

Are these estates on land owned by TCs pre-1974 or are they built on land that belonged to GCs then?

Mr Hardy, a small point to start , no one in this blog has asked about Wellington Estates customers with mortgages. A ploy perhaps to reflect away from the actual questions asked.
Mr Hardy , I would assume even you can see the futility of denying the fact that you have not issued deeds .Sir you should really be concerning yourself with damage control.Wellington Estates is not the worst Developer in Northern Cyprus. To make amends all you would need to do is to fulfill your obligations and issue your fully paid customers with their free shared deeds.

Mr Hardy, if you read through this blog you will find another major problem that you need to contend with.Can you see it?

This posting has been edited by moderator. Hardyboy, you have a private message.

Just to dispel any lasting illusions that Wellington Estates customers have of any hope of ever receiving a free shared deed. I would call on Mr Hardy to set a time frame for the handover of these free shared deeds.
Could this reasonably happen in the next fourty days or will his customers have to wait until Mr Hardy sells his company.
As Mr Hardy states he will not comment or debate here on this site perhaps in the next two days he could contact his customers, allay their frustrations and commit to a timetable.

Mr Hardy is it true that of a morning when you wake, the first thing you do is look at this site
Doing the right thing now won't leave you thinking, if I'd just agreed then I wouldn't be in this position now
The pen is mightier than the sword. Edward Bulwer-Lytton 1839
The clock is ticking.

Mr Hardy, I suspect that if you don't do "the right thing", you could very well find yourself on the "Most Wanted" list. Having read this thread carefully, I'm surprised you are not on it already. BTW I have absolutely nothing to do with Wellington Estates, but feel for those that are.

Dear 'Sophie', as you state that you are an impartial commentator, you will be aware that there are two sides to all disputes. The issue of title deeds in TRNC can be a complex and expensive process, especially in the case of individual title deeds.

On some developments, we are obliged to issue individual and not shared title deeds. In this case we have to construct pavements with kerbs, install streetlights, provide road drainage and tarmac the estate roads. These infrastructure works cost money

On one site, we completed these works in the expectation that the beneficiaries would make a contribution to our costs. When the works were completed, several customers met and decided that they would not pay for these expended costs. I suspect that 'Hardyboy' is one of these.

He/she now seeks to persuade the company to issue a shared title deed due to his defamation of our reputation. Perhaps you will appreciate that no-one likes to be defamed by anonymous persons on a public bulletin board. You may also appreciate that defamation does not assist constructive business negotiations.
Leslie Hardy

You really are digging a huge hole for your self MR Hardy.
Who in their right mind buys a property expecting to pay more money later for "infrastructure"???

Just a scam that too many other developers have used in Cyprus. So sad that it has destroyed what could have been a wonderful country to live in.

Mr Hardy, I have followed this thread with some considerable interest and I took no sides in either point of view. However, this has now changed and I must take exception to your view that housing estates with infrastructure must pay extra on top of an agreed contract price. I live in a complex of 33 individual houses. All road surfacing, kerbing, drains, water meters/pipes, street lighting, telephone exterior boxes, swimming pools et al were all included in the original contract price. We were never asked to pay extra, nor would we have done so either.

You, as the developer and vendor, should have factored these costs into your original house purchase price for buyers to decide if they wished to continue with a purchase. To seek additional monies after the sale is underhand and, as predicted, is doing your business reputation no favour.

I suspect you will not like what I have said, but as it does not constitute either libel or slander - I guess you'll have to live with posters disagreeing with you on a public forum. You do, of course, have the option of ignoring my post!