Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

No one will be displaced or re-settled in a Cyprus agreement: Ozgurgun
26 August 2016 taken from LGC NEWS today:

In an interview with Radio Vatan regarding the ongoing Cyprus negotiations, Prime Minister Hüseyin Özgürgün said that with the consistent demands of the Greek Cypriot side, a rational solution is one which would not entail any resettling or displacement as a result of territorial adjustments.

Emphasising that resettling around one hundred thousand people would not constitute a solution, Prime Minister Özgürgün stated:

“The Greek Cypriot Administration wants the Karpaz Peninsula, Güzelyurt (Morphou) and does not accept the presence of the Turkish military. They do not recognise the need for Security and Guarantees and they think the EU’s guarantee is enough for both of sides, without the need for the settlement to become EU primary law. These conditions are not acceptable for the Turkish Cypriot community. This would not entail a mutually acceptable agreement, but a complete and utter Turkish Cypriot surrender.”

There is a reason why Ozgurgun is not at the talks negotiation, and this proves why. You cannot have negotiation and give nothing. That is no negotiation. Part of Karpaz peninsula was offered to the GC leadership but was refused because Papadobullos did not wish to make it acceptable to GC people. At the time Papadobullos was in contact with Serdar Dengtash and actually had a meeting trying to work out how to stop the peace process. This is because they are both in the same camp not wanting a solution. Eroglu was in the same camp and now that Ozgurgun is leader of UBP he is also in the same camp. Papadopullos's sons are also in control of DIKO and they are also in the same camp. Their motto is no solution is the solution. It has never been so and will never be so in the future. As a Turkish Cypriot I would be ashamed to be in the same camp as Grey Wolves and ELAM supporters in the south, both fascist organisations.

As to the current negotiations there will be 28 categories of Property depending on the circumstances of the original owner and the current resident and the rules will apply fairly to both communities. It was agreed that the Turkish Army was going to be withdrawn in phases in 2004 and it will be again, so was handing back of Omorfo. Naturally nobody will be carted off to the street. One will hand over the keys and receive another set. Certainly 100,000 people will not be forced to move. But some will be offered alternatives whether they are original owner or a current owner and if there is still no agreement between them, it will be decided by an independent body. You cannot ask for a fairer agreement.

Sounds fair, also sounds like another wooden horse. So - as an example - I hand over my keys and am given another set of keys, do I take it that the other set of keys will fit a door? If so, will the door be on a house of the same quality, in the same village that I am currently resident in and will it come with deeds of ownership as well?

Or will it just be a set of keys - now go and try and find the derelict ruin that has been "allocated" to you and make sure you bring it up to standard again so that later on it can be proven that it was a stolen property to start with and is no longer yours? Not that I do not trust the various governments of course, it is just that I am suspicious!!

People were forced to move in 1974 and some were living on the street so what is there to stop it happening again.?

The biggest problem before there can be any exchanges is deciding who owns what.

There are 2 Land Registries - 1 in the South and 1 in the North. The one in the South is probably pretty reliable up to 1964 and the one in the North from whenever it was established. The South Land Registry must be totally distrusted after 1964 when all TCs were disenfranchised and any number of fraudulent deals were put through on paper to transfer ownership from TC to GC - without the TC knowing to this day unless he goes and inspects the Land Registry in the South (is he even allowed to inspect it). In fact you could probably go as far as to say that any land/property that changed from TC to GC ownership between 1964 and 1974 was a fraudulent deal - the 2 communities couldn't/wouldn't speak to each other never mind conduct business.

Take Karsiyaka for example. Early in 1964, the 165 TC villagers were evacuated by the Paras in 5 open lorries guarded by a couple of armed jeeps in a sudden 'raid' to get them away from the encircling GCs. The people took nothing with them - no clothes, no food, no photos and certainly no paperwork. When they returned 11 years later there were no kocans to prove their ownership of property.....and so it remains. Their sworn statements supporting each other were enough for the TRNC authorities to issue new kocans...but what does the registry in the South say?

And would statements sworn 42 years ago be enough for the courts of today if a GC turned up with a perfectly legal kocan issued by the South and said 'Hey - that's my family's land - they bought it from Memet X in 1968 - I have the Kocan to prove it'?

DenizIsmail wrote:No one will be displaced or re-settled in a Cyprus agreement: Ozgurgun
26 August 2016 taken from LGC NEWS today:

In an interview with Radio Vatan regarding the ongoing Cyprus negotiations, Prime Minister Hüseyin Özgürgün said that with the consistent demands of the Greek Cypriot side, a rational solution is one which would not entail any resettling or displacement as a result of territorial adjustments.

Emphasising that resettling around one hundred thousand people would not constitute a solution, Prime Minister Özgürgün stated:

“The Greek Cypriot Administration wants the Karpaz Peninsula, Güzelyurt (Morphou) and does not accept the presence of the Turkish military. They do not recognise the need for Security and Guarantees and they think the EU’s guarantee is enough for both of sides, without the need for the settlement to become EU primary law. These conditions are not acceptable for the Turkish Cypriot community. This would not entail a mutually acceptable agreement, but a complete and utter Turkish Cypriot surrender.”

Be Careful their lips are moving.

JBA wrote:The biggest problem before there can be any exchanges is deciding who owns what.

There are 2 Land Registries - 1 in the South and 1 in the North. The one in the South is probably pretty reliable up to 1964 and the one in the North from whenever it was established. The South Land Registry must be totally distrusted after 1964 when all TCs were disenfranchised and any number of fraudulent deals were put through on paper to transfer ownership from TC to GC - without the TC knowing to this day unless he goes and inspects the Land Registry in the South (is he even allowed to inspect it). In fact you could probably go as far as to say that any land/property that changed from TC to GC ownership between 1964 and 1974 was a fraudulent deal - the 2 communities couldn't/wouldn't speak to each other never mind conduct business.

Take Karsiyaka for example. Early in 1964, the 165 TC villagers were evacuated by the Paras in 5 open lorries guarded by a couple of armed jeeps in a sudden 'raid' to get them away from the encircling GCs. The people took nothing with them - no clothes, no food, no photos and certainly no paperwork. When they returned 11 years later there were no kocans to prove their ownership of property.....and so it remains. Their sworn statements supporting each other were enough for the TRNC authorities to issue new kocans...but what does the registry in the South say?

And would statements sworn 42 years ago be enough for the courts of today if a GC turned up with a perfectly legal kocan issued by the South and said 'Hey - that's my family's land - they bought it from Memet X in 1968 - I have the Kocan to prove it'?

Not forgetting of course that due to the Ottoman Empire siding with Germany in WW1 , the British in control here had no issues with altering Title deeds that were previously TC owned .

if we are going back to 1919 why stop there we may go back 10,000 years it makes just as much sense. we had an agreement 1960 which wiped the slate clean. Up till 1963 there were no issues and if there has been any transfering of land illegally it will be obvious when comparing the register of today. It is possible that some TCs have actually sold their properties as they had lost hope of returning in the 60s and it is also possible that there has been fraud commited by GCs. This is one of the reasons why the property negotiations are so complex. Another reason is the delay of a peace agreement by 42 years.

To me being forced to sell under duress is not a legal, recognisable sale, and there was a lot of that prior to 1974. This all should be taken into account.

Luracinalli, are you the Turkish Cypriot equivalent of a coconut?

Let there be an agreement that makes people sell their house under duress and see what happens to this Country, only a coconut would be for a solution that will change anything to the rights of ones properties or force people to move etc.

If someone turned up on my door step and told me to sell my house, do you think I would? Would you? Would anyone?

If some stranger turned up at my house and said "you built this house on my land", do you think I would be receptive to listen to their strife at my own financial loss? Would anyone?

I reckon people would be getting shot down on peoples door steps pretty frequently if ever the above scenarios began to occur, there would be a new war again within months.

Minister of Economy and Energy Sunat Atun flew to Izmir in order to take part in the Izmir International Fair. As part of his visit, Atun visited the president of the Aegean region Chamber of Industry Ender Yorgancioglu.

During the visit, Atun evaluated the latest developments in Cyprus and predicted that “if the Turkish army leaves the island the Turkish Cypriot people may be forced to experience pre-1974 events”.

Atun also said that the Greek Cypriot side’s property demands are putting the Turkish Cypriot side in a difficult position. “We support a bicommunal federal structure on the island but we will never accept being a minority on the island”, Atun said.

Stating that “if a solution is not reached by 2016, the TRNC should be recognised by the international community based on a Taiwan or Hong Kong model”, Atun added that the Turkish Cypriots will never give up on their political rights on the island and argued that they wanted to develop trade relations with the Greek Cypriot side.

Atun further suggested that “if an agreement is reached and the city of Maras [Varosha] is given to South Cyprus, then the sea and airports in the North could be opened for international flights and trade”. He also argued that if the Greek Cypriot side restructures the fenced-off city of Maras [Varosha] then this would contribute to the TRNC’s economy.

POSTED TODAY CYPRUS MAIL

DenizIsmail wrote:Minister of Economy and Energy Sunat Atun flew to Izmir in order to take part in the Izmir International Fair. As part of his visit, Atun visited the president of the Aegean region Chamber of Industry Ender Yorgancioglu.

During the visit, Atun evaluated the latest developments in Cyprus and predicted that “if the Turkish army leaves the island the Turkish Cypriot people may be forced to experience pre-1974 events”.

Atun also said that the Greek Cypriot side’s property demands are putting the Turkish Cypriot side in a difficult position. “We support a bicommunal federal structure on the island but we will never accept being a minority on the island”, Atun said.

Stating that “if a solution is not reached by 2016, the TRNC should be recognised by the international community based on a Taiwan or Hong Kong model”, Atun added that the Turkish Cypriots will never give up on their political rights on the island and argued that they wanted to develop trade relations with the Greek Cypriot side.

Atun further suggested that “if an agreement is reached and the city of Maras [Varosha] is given to South Cyprus, then the sea and airports in the North could be opened for international flights and trade”. He also argued that if the Greek Cypriot side restructures the fenced-off city of Maras [Varosha] then this would contribute to the TRNC’s economy.

POSTED TODAY CYPRUS MAIL

This is the only solution that exists to this "problem", TRNC is growing at an unprecedented rate already, unlike Europe. It is the bankrupt South side that must consider THEIR situation a problem.