Mains water and back up tanks

[Murphy]

Hi All

We have now had mains water installed and the water flows into the cold water tank on the roof. We had a 3 tonne water tank that used to feed the cold water tank on the roof. Are either of these 2 tanks needed now as a neighbour on
Site has had the mains water run in directly to the pipe work which feeds the house and hot water tank.
I understand a little about plumbing but not a lot as they say

[guru]

Yes as long as there is sufficient pressure then I don't see why not, but the question is, with the TRNC's history of turning water on and off all the time, would you want to? Ok so the Turkish water is here and in theory it should be on 24/7/52, but if it was me I would wait and see how reliable the supply is going to be first.

[gary&shirley]

Totally agree with Guru, the new water should easily be able to go direct to your tanks on the roof all the time it is on which is of course the issue as if it goes off you would not have a back up of so many tons in your storage tank.

[jofra]

About three weeks ago, our mains supply in Karsiyaka was off for two 24 hour periods, and about the same time, Esentepe was suffering even worse cut-offs....
I'm keeping my tank! (I had to buy a new plastic one just last year on moving in, as the metal one had (through non-use) corroded badly and leaked from the sides....!

[Art]

I'm going to install a back up tank as I think there will be supply issues next year and our mayor is banning the delivery of tankard water.

This year has been a nightmare - 1 day on 5 days off.

[sophie]

We have 3 tonne tanks that take water from the mains and there is no way on this earth are we going toget rid of them. Turkish water or not, I can't believe rationing has stopped for good.

[Maisiemoo]

I wouldn't get rid the my tanks because of the reasons stated above. We are still not on water 24/7, getting it 3/4 times a week but being charged Turkish water prices!

[waddo]

If you the feed the house direct direct from the mains supply but still keep your water tanks full but isolated as well please remember that you are going to keep stagnant water in your tanks after a time! In these times of water on/water off I would suggest running a direct feed to the house but having a switch over system so you can revert to your tanks and then running both systems month and month about till everything is settled down! I have done that to my place but as we have only had water for around 5 hours, once a week, since May I have not had the chance to test it all out. My main supply is well driven so for the moment and until we get any water, let alone the famed Turkish water, I live off the well!

[Murphy]

Thank you all for your excellent responses!

[thornaby]

If the mains water from Turkey is of sufficient pressure (above 2 bar) it raises the possibility of supplying the house with out using the household pump.
A simple bypass on the incoming water supply of the water storage tank and a similar bypass at the household pump. Should the mainswater pressure drop the supply to the house would come from the storage tank and the pump would kick in automatically. A few pipe fittings, a few isolation valves and a few non return valves is all that is needed. Isolating the bypass of the tank once a month would avoid the stagnant water issue.

[Keithcaley]

thornaby, sounds like a good plan, although I'm not sure what TC plumbers would make of it!

The other issue, which most of us have, is purging the roof tank, which (before the pressurised Turkish Water) only comes into play during power cuts (or in my case, very rarely, 'cos the generator cuts in...).

I don't expect that many will implement a regime whereby the roof tank is periodically emptied, refilled and sanitised...

I'm particularly bad at it, even tho' I'm aware of the issue!

[thornaby]

Hi Keith
The second cold water tank on the roof is definitely an issue if the water supply and electric never go off. For those who dont understand the plumbing and as you quit rightly point out, this tank will only suply the house if the electric or mains water go off. Should that never happen that water would never get used and become stagnent.

[gates]

If you are in an area were the water is constant depending on the feed you can buy pass the pump and tanks if you fill the need to use or curculate your tank water then you can
We have converted many units Lapta Karshiaca if you want a survey and price to do this please call or find us on http://www.braceybuilders.com for a full and guaranteed service

[thornaby]

Hi gates, by passing the tank completely is not a good idea. SHould the water go off the houshold will have nothing. Far better to isolate the by-pass every so often and use the stored water. Understanding and managing the system especially with the promise of a regular supply at a decent pressure will save us all money and put less demand on the electric supply.

[jofra]

Hi gates, by passing the tank completely is not a good idea. SHould the water go off the houshold will have nothing. Far better to isolate the by-pass every so often and use the stored water. Understanding and managing the system especially with the promise of a regular supply at a decent pressure will save us all money and put less demand on the electric supply.

Most definitely - due to (completely wrong) accusations by neighbour, I had my supply modified so that the tank only provided the hot water side - so when mains were cut off, no cold water! If the tank is bypassed completely, mains cut equals NO water at all! I've now ended up paying a plumber twice to sort my supply out....

[gates]

you dont understand the pump is still there if you need it if the mains goes off you just turn your pump on and use the storage water were is the problem when the water comes back on you turn the pump off easy as that
Save electric and pump usage

[thornaby]

Hi Gates, if piped up corectly there should be no need to turn the pump on and off!

[gates]

i know what i do you do what you like
I have done 6 so far and every body happy what is your gripe

[jimm]

I have had mine done by Bracy, very happy if the supply pressure is low i.e. Belediya turning pumps off then all I do is turn the pump on, turning the pump off when the pressure is restored

[thornaby]

GatesI have no gripe with you or anyone else. YOu do it your way and if your customers are happy good luck to them and to you. IF I do it I will do it my way,the tank will be there as back up and the pump will cut in automatically if the pressure drops. I wont do anything untill Iam on the new water supply and I will measure the incoming water pressure to check the feasibility of this simple low cost modification!!

[Keithcaley]

Thornaby, if I understand your concept correctly (IF! ) then in its simplest form, it would mean connecting the incoming Belediye supply directly to a pipe that feeds to the house, and installing a non-return valve immediately after the existing pump, so that the pump would only cut in if the Belediye supply fails yes / no?

As most systems already have valves/taps either side of the pump (to isolate it in case the pump needs to be removed during maintenance) then the only extra that I would suggest would be one more valve to isolate the feed to the house - and thereby prevent the roof tank from emptying if any radical work involved disconnecting both the pump and Belediye feeds at the same time, because 'you never know!'

I would just add that gates did explain his system in detail on another thread, and although perhaps not quite as 'elegant', design wise, it is imo slightly more robust and 'fault tolerant' in that it does not rely on the continued integrity of a non-return valve, my experiences of which are somewhat chequered!

All very interesting.

[jimm]

On the system I had installed is that the bypass first has a check valve followed by a PCV which regulates the pressure then an isolation valve so that I can isolate the bypass supply. this along with the isolation valves on the pump discharge allows any configuration and maintenance work to be done without losing water to the house. You require a check valve on the bypass so if the pump kicks in under low pressure from the Belediya then you wont pump all your water back into their system.

[Keithcaley]

...You require a check valve on the bypass so if the pump kicks in under low pressure from the Belediya then you wont pump all your water back into their system.

Would a single check valve on the incoming Belediye supply do the trick? Plus a PCV, of course.

The Hydrofor pressure unit mounted on my pump already has an integral non return valve at the output - which stops the roof tank emptying back through the pump, and maintains the pressure on the system when there is no demand, so perhaps there's no need for a second check valve...

[gary&shirley]

All of the above is very interesting however once the mains becomes more regular the use of the back up tank would I assume be less, would that not result in the water contained within the back up tank being stagnant?

[jimm]

It would but every now and then you could isolate the bypass and use the pump to ensure that the tank water is not contaminated or either dose the tank with sodium hyperchloride which is what the chemical industry uses, (a form of bleach). Keith you could use a check valve on the supply line but as it is a new modification I got it put on the bypass.

[Keithcaley]

All of the above is very interesting however once the mains becomes more regular the use of the back up tank would I assume be less, would that not result in the water contained within the back up tank being stagnant?

Hi, if you look back at earlier posts, this was mentioned in posts 10 and 11

[waddo]

Just from experience, because I was - and I stress was - a communications and IT professional in my previous life, I knew nothing about plumbing when I got here over 9 years ago. However, on the basis that I treated water in the same manner as you would treat steel - in other words it is almost non-compressible - and that if you pushed it at one end of the pipe, the "push" appeared at the other end, or in the case of Cypriot plumbing, anywhere it had a weak or leaky joint! I watched with interest all the pipework going into my new build property and how it crossed over or under the conduit that carried the electric cables or just had some dodgy connections going up and down walls. I took pictures of everything or had people take them for me so I knew where everything was - well almost. I thought I was being very clever with this but sadly I had neglected to find out about water quality and that "Limescale" stuff as well as the sand and general "crap" that comes down the pipes - if you are lucky enough to get mains water that is.
When I moved house some 6 years ago I started all over again, ripped out the existing rusty metal tanks, complete with their collection of dead and decomposing lizards that were in them, ditched the solar panels and pulled down the water tower. A good start, then I got the old pumps and pressure switch's and either serviced them or ditched them for new ones. Next I replaced all outside visible pipework with 30bar plastic (I must admit that I have had one of those burst but it was a pipe manufacture fault not mine) and the metal stopcocks were replaced with plastic as well - you need to be careful welding the plastic stopcocks because too much heat distorts the body and you end up with it either permanently open or permanently shut! With just a little thought I re-designed my whole water system and it works for me. Solar panels were replaced with a gas water heater - I use about 1 of the big gas cylinders every year @ 200TL cost, approx, so constant hot water all year round no mater how many guests I have or how much I use - so long as there is electricity (I have a back up genny which I start once a year to make sure it works) and gas, no problem at all. Once a year I check the gas heater and give it a blow through again no problems.

I installed a 2 ton plastic tank for the house water, a 1 ton plastic tank for the garden - linked them together via a stop cock system so I could pump the water from the 1 ton into the 2 ton if it got low (the 1 ton I filled from my well) - good job I did as this year if I have had 14 days of water over the last 5 months I have been lucky! As we have a utility attached to the garage (which is now an office) I put another 1 ton plastic tank in to serve that as well and linked them all together. Both the 2 ton and the utility 1 ton are fed from the mains (ha ha) but I can pump water from both 1 ton tanks to the 2 ton so effectively I have 4 tons available for the house all the time!

The system has grown over the years as has my skill with the plastic pipe welder (cost me 110TL 5 years ago) and the ability to successfully weld plastic stop cocks. I fully admit that it is over engineered and that, with hindsight and more available cash I would have done it slightly differently BUT the thing is, none of it is brain surgery, anyone can do it, you just have to think about it a little.

So now I have mains water occasionally and it fills the 2 ton house tank and the 1 ton utility tank but I still have the backup system from the well, all is fine and I await the impending arrival of the famed Turkish water and the high pressure that will destroy all my work? I have no non-return valves fitted in the system, I learnt long ago that "non-Return" here means you can't take it back to where you bought it when it fails or does not work at all. One thing of note is that whilst over the past 5 months I have been running off my well, I have had no lime scale to mention and no sand or grit in my taps or pipes!

After all that rubbish I have written above, the reason I put it on here is simple, there is no great mystery to plumbing, it is logical and like finding the best route for your car journey - think about it first - I am and remain stunned at the low cost of plastic pipes and fittings here, at how easy it all is to work with and really, with a little bit of confidence, how simple it can become. I learnt that when my pump leaks I can fit new seals at a cost of around 10TL instead of buying another 300+TL new pump, I learnt not to play with the pressure switch if it went wrong, just to buy a new one and not the expensive one either, it will jam up with limescale the same as the cheap on does. I stress again, I am not a plumber and never will be but my system works for me because I designed it for me. Have a bit of courage, the worst you can do is get wet - so do it all in the summer when you can dry out easy!!