Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

I didn't want to steal others thunder from postings already started regarding Brexit etc. but if there is a settlement in Cyprus it's an insight on how it might affect those living in Europe.

First part is the UK Committee asking those that live in the UK from overseas to give evidence on how it could affect them when UK withdraws from EU with regard to their applications to stay.

Second part gives views from Ex pats living in Italy, France, Spain and Belgium and covers most areas of concern, Pensions, Health etc. The Ex pats from Spain France and Italy give, in my opinion, give a good insight how concerning it is for those living in Europe.



http://data.parliament.uk/writteneviden ... 45498.html

Thank you for an informative posting

Yes, indeed, very useful and I hope it will lead to a sensible discussion!

It left me wondering how far the UK Government, and indeed all theUK political parties, had thought through all the ramifications of leaving the European Community and its effects on so many ordinary people who only want to get on with their lives

Of course, those of us who live full time long term int the TRNC are accustomed to having to cope by ourselves with the financial implications of living in the TRNC and will be most seriously affected by Brexit only if or when Cyprus reunifies. Then we will face , I suspect, l much higher cost of living and medical care, without the backup of EU reciprocity. It was distressing that already some EU countries are looking askance at British Residents. If Cyprus reunifies I doubt older , long term TRNC residents will receive much sympathy. We may, indeed, be doomed! Nonetheless I still feel that Brexit was the best long term decision for the UK.

Of course this is all still speculative , but I am increasingly uneasy that the interests of the (I assume somewhat diminished) long term permanent residents have no one to protect them or put their case. Indeed I have heard nothing about the proposed permanent residency arrangements recently! If there are any others here in the same situation as I, and would like to engage in positive discussion of mutural concerns, I should be glad to get a pm from them.

RR, Being a full time and medium term of 10 years without leaving the Island person, who intends to live out life here, I share the same thoughts as yourself. However, it would not matter where in the world we lived when you look at the increase in living costs and although prices here would certainly rise in the short term I feel that the short term may be some time in coming "IF" there is a reunification of the Island. For sure the North would find it impossible to transit to the Euro from the TL immediately upon reunification, with the TL currently at around 4 to 1 with the Euro, everyone on minimum or near minimum wage of 1800TL per month would suddenly end up with only 450 euro's a month to attempt existence! As the minimum wage in the RoC is 924 euro's (twice the wage of the North) and the price comparisons between the two halves are at this time quite close (with the RoC slightly more expensive in some areas), it would be National suicide to move directly to the euro. The North would first have to establish itself in Global trade and achieve earned income instead of mainland handouts - it will take time.
We, who live here on a permanent basis, must have already known that once we cut ties with the UK or moved out of its direct sight we would be on our own - the British Government have never been helpful to its overseas citizens and I suspect once Brexit has happened they will be even less helpful and indeed treat us as just another immigrant should we have to return. So really there should be no surprises or worry's greater than the normal ones we have lived with for years - it has been and continues to be our own choice to live here and rather than hope or wish for assistance from the UK (which will never happen in our lifetimes) we should really look to the future.
As - currently - EU Citizens in a non-EU country our situation remains in stasis, however, should reunification occur pre-Brexit then it is a whole new ball game! The EU rules on movement and (more importantly) residence will swing into effect immediately upon the North becoming a full EU member and my personal feeling on this, is that it is the reason there is currently no movement or discussion on the "White Card/Permanent Residency" proposal - why work to put in place a thing that "May" be thrown away in the next few months?
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:en:PDF Is a useful document to read and retain, along with http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/mov ... dex_en.htm - see article 16 – and this: http://cyprusview.com/page/residence-permit gives further information on what may also happen in the North.
So, what next? My big question is about Health Insurance and will it be affordable and available to all – the TRNC government is looking into ways for non-Cypriot citizens to purchase government backed health insurance in the same manner that Cypriots pay their own social funds. That in itself would generate more money for the country and would seem to be a sensible way forward – no hope of that then – lol.
I think that each part of this “Joining the EU in a reunified Cyprus” should be discussed as individual items and would prove useful to all us “Long Term” residents in the future. As the saying goes – We live in interesting times!!!

LThank you for an intelligent and well thought out response.

I think ten years uninterrupted residence counts as long term. Longer than that and we are Ancient Brits at best, and mostly regarded and treated by most fellow Brits as fossils!

Your comments on changing from the TL to the EU and comparison of minimum wages is interesting. Considering that Cypriots have more access to Health Services and that many are living in inherited and/or exchange property with no initial purchase price to fund, I reckon that Expats on a roughly middle management level pension with their additional necessary expenses probably end up with very little if any more than the minimum wage for living expenses, such as food, heat, clothes etc. Particularly those who partly rely on invested savings, which have depreciated as a result of the global financial markets and//or misplaced investment of capital.

I would like to think that your suggestion of a long term transition of currency would be the case, but experience of the EU suggests that it has no sympathy for the suffering of ordinary people from its policies - look at what happened in Greece and whatever you may think of Government policies the ordinary people, particularly pensioners, suffered through no fault of act of their own. I can well both Cypriots and expats facing a pretty tough time. Of course ideally the TRNC should be given the opportunity to trade freely in world markets for two or more years before making the decision on reunification , thus negotiating on a level playing field - but sadly and unfairly that is about as likely as the flying pigs!

Of course most long term residents made plans for their future, and thought we have adequately provided for many emergencies including medical ones. Unfortunately the best laid plans and all that and various unforeseen circumstances locally and internationally have sent them astray.

Like you, my major concerns are medical. National schemes like the NHS which do not have exclusions, have to have a large membership to spread the risk as well as a long term investment strategy. Private schemes to be viable and profitable excude existing illnesses and/or charge large premiums. For anyone over probably 60 or 65, certainly 79, with one or more existing chronic problems the premiums would be quite unaffordable.
What happens to people who have made their lives here and have no where to go back, but cannot comply with medical residence requirements. I believe someone should be putting pressure on the British Government to give consideration to either making a contribution to medical expense/or a fast track assisted rehabilitation for the UK for those who have fully paid UK National Insurance contributions but have saved the NHS 10 years or more of medical costs. Unfortunately we are too few and in some cases too old and frail to attract anyone's interest.

RR, “Considering that Cypriots have more access to Health Services and that many are living in inherited and/or exchange property with no initial purchase price to fund, I reckon that Expats on a roughly middle management level pension with their additional necessary expenses probably end up with very little if any more than the minimum wage for living expenses, such as food, heat, clothes etc.” Agreed!!
“Particularly those who partly rely on invested savings, which have depreciated as a result of the global financial markets and//or misplaced investment of capital.” Again agreed, just wish I had been able to invest some of our savings to rely upon – however, the miniscule savings we were left with would not have incurred sufficient interest anyway.
The old saying of no plan survives is quite correct for almost every plan and all you can do is your best and try to outguess what will happen next. No real comfort in this I know but there is little else you can do. I take comfort in knowing that most of the “experts” of today will also end up as the pensioners of tomorrow and that most probably their plans will also no survive – nobody knows what the future will bring and nobody can take anything with them when the box in the ground calls your name! Enjoy yourself for the day and see what tomorrow will bring.
My neighbour made his fortune selling health insurance and as a true friend he gave me an honest answer when I asked if we should buy health insurance here – put your money into a savings account he told me, you will never be able to afford the type of comprehensive health insurance you are likely to need at your age and given your medical state! He could have easily taken my money but instead he gave me “free” advice. It was simple really, if we had paid the amount we could afford to save into a health insurance plan, we could maybe have afforded to have had a broken arm fixed. So we saved what we could and now we are good for two arms and most of a leg – lol.
“What happens to people who have made their lives here and have no where to go back, but cannot comply with medical residence requirements. I believe someone should be putting pressure on the British Government to give consideration to either making a contribution to medical expense/or a fast track assisted rehabilitation for the UK for those who have fully paid UK National Insurance contributions but have saved the NHS 10 years or more of medical costs.” I have said it before and I say it again – if you are over 65 – even in the UK – neither the Government nor the NHS is interested in you anymore (unless they want your income tax)! We have to get behind the fact that it was our decision to become and expat, not a tourist! We left the UK for our own reasons and some of us moved away on a permanent basis and left it all behind us – never to return. If that is the case then we should not bemoan the fact that the UK Government is not going to help us now, no matter what we have “put in” in the past. It’s hard I know but we made the choice and now we should live with it and make the best of what we can here, there is no real need to go to Private medical care when we are all welcome to make use of the State medical car at a reasonable cost – it is basic I admit but then so is laying on a trolley for 6 or 8 hours in a UK A&E!!!
On a lighter note, seeing that the great leader of the UK has gone off to talk to Trump, I await her return and the announcement that she is sending Scotland the bill for building Hadrian’s Wall!!

Regarding your lighter note, I'm sure the good people of Scotland would pay for it if it meant Independence from Westminster !!

Incoming!!!

Now, now. Don't ruin a sensible discussion just because I wanted to inject a little harmless humour! Thank you. Anyway it was the Roman's not the English who built the wall so it would be the Italian PM who would request payment really!

This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,

This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall
Or as a moat defensive to a house

,
Against the envy of less happier lands,--
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.
William Shakespeare, "King Richard II", Act 2 scene 1

(My italics)

Obviously Shakespear was not good at forecasting the future - he obviously did not foresee the Channel Tunnel! And he seems to have completely forgotten Scotland and Hadrian's wall!

I agree with you about private medical care : when I first came to Cyprus, I joined the BRS joint private health scheme... Unfortunately they cancelled it after a few years and rather than lose the contributions I had already made I continued on an individual basis but that got far too expensive and what with all the exclusions etc. I decided to self insure. If I had done that in the first place I might be better placed now!

As for beds in hospital corridors, personally I see myself ending in a cardboard box on Westminster bridge, and am just wondering how I can smuggle my dogs over to keep me company and attract more sympathy than I would!

However however good and reasonable the hopsital are, if the problem (s) are chronic they may need frequent doctors' appointments, extra treatments such as physiotherapy and expensive medicine: which would have been partially born by the NHS. For those who dont have someone able and willing to help there are also considerable extra costs involved in nursing, home and personal assistance and transport.

While I am aware of the increasing problems of the NHS, I think expatriates who have paid NHS throughout a working life, should be entitled to return and benefit from them, even if there has been a lacuna during which they have not claimed benefit, and regardless of what they were doing or where they were. However this presupposes a choice: my concern here was what happens if someone is unable to get insurance and thus meet the residential requirements - would they be extradited and on return to UK (particularly if they were not well enough to cope with the formalities or evenwalk through the airport) what would happen to them?
wh

The objective is abundantly clear.
Like in most divorce cases:
The best possible deal!!

The best possible deal - for whom? Minority groups only ever get table scraps, Government always get the fat, keeps them happy and in power whilst the common people fund it all. May's latest giveaway to Turkey is £100.000,000.00 to assist Turkey in their fighter program - meanwhile: https://www.rt.com/uk/372044-military-s ... dget-cuts/

But who will care about that so long as the price of chips remains the same?

waddo wrote:The best possible deal - for whom? Minority groups only ever get table scraps, Government always get the fat, keeps them happy and in power whilst the common people fund it all. May's latest giveaway to Turkey is £100.000,000.00 to assist Turkey in their fighter program - meanwhile: https://www.rt.com/uk/372044-military-s ... dget-cuts/

But who will care about that so long as the price of chips remains the same?

Silicone or potato?

Or even casino...?
It's all a gamble...