Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Why? Where's it gone?

Any back up on this? Sounds like a load of nonsense if you ask me.
A lot of fake news going around these days: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-38168792

Depends upon your point of view Soner. If you mean it could be fake news that Sadiq Khan has asked for a seat at the table to negotiate on behalf of London for Brexit, he has campaigned for it.

Getting more affordable housing for those living and working in London, now that could be fake news, I think it's called "diddly squat" so far.


http://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/si ... 90156.html

Thanks Dalartokat for further info. But, seriously, what are the chances of London becoming an independent state with Khan simply asking to be at the negotiating table? I think it is getting blown out of proportion. That's just my opinion.

Of course it is, totally agree. It's Sadiq Khan's idle daydream at the expense of the things he should be getting on with.

Demanding that the legally elected mayor of London, voted in to that position by those who live in London, be removed in the name of 'democracy' to me just shows the kind of 'Alice in wonderland' environment we now find our selves in.

Sadiq Khan has not called for London to become an independent state. He is arguing that London and Londoners should have more control and say over what happens in London than they currently do vs how much say Westminster has. In fact just a continuation of efforts started by Boris Johnston when he was mayor of London. Maybe this is why the majority of Londoners democratically voted for him as their mayor ?

For those interested in what Sadiq Khan has actually said you could try this link

http://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases ... ss-leaders

I wonder what exactly is London? Is it a collection of the inner London Boroughs or does it include the whole of outer London as well? If we are splitting up further are the interests of say, Knightsbridge, the same as, say Towe Hamlets or Acton? Presumably, it is the area covered by the Mayor, and ( excuse my ignorance) butI am not sure what that covers. I have a horrible suspicion however that what we are talking about here is the City of London - ie the Financial lHub and if so my opinion is that what ordinary Londoners, indeed ordinary British Citizens whatever their gender,,age, race or religion or domicile is not more control by big business and the greedy unethical bankers and financiers but less ! And what is important is no how prosperous Britain is but how prosperity is divided : in this day and age the gap between rich and poor seems larger than in the rule of Good Queen Victoria and the fate of the underpriviledged , handicapped and aged hardly better!

Ragged Robin wrote:I wonder what exactly is London?

In terms of the Mayor of London, this includes all 32 inner and outer London boroughs and the City of London. What is generally known as Greater London.

RR the original poster linked to a petition that is calling for the democratically elected mayor of London to be 'removed', because he is allegedly being 'treasonous' by daring to suggest that Londoners, rather than Westminster, should have more control over what happens in London than they currently do. The suggestion that he should be 'removed' is to me nonsense and clearly fundamentally anti democratic. Nor do I see any connection with this petition for his removal and the trend of an increasing gap between rich and poor what so ever. Are you really suggesting that the arbitrary removal of a democratically elected mayor of London could or would lead to a decrease in the gap between rich and poor ?

This is complete nonsense!
I'm not a great fan of Sadiq Khan, but he was elected by the people of London on May 5th 2016. There will be another election in 2020, so if people in London want someone else, then they'll have a chance to vote for him or her then. This is how democracy works in the UK, and in most democratic countries.
Munchkin may prefer a quasi or facade democracy on the Putin/Erdogan model, but I imagine most Londoners would prefer the real thing.

It does beg the question though that when he was in the governments of Blair and Brown not a word was said about how London was run ?
MP's ..eh....who knows what goes on in their heads.

turtle wrote:It does beg the question though that when he was in the governments of Blair and Brown not a word was said about how London was run ?
MP's ..eh....who knows what goes on in their heads.

Yet more utter nonsense.

Sadiq Khan

Born - Tooting, South London
Grew up in a three-bedroom council flat on the Henry Prince Estate in Earlsfield, Wandsworth
Schooled in local comprehensive.
Degree from university of North London
Represented Tooting as a Councillor for the London Borough of Wandsworth from 1994 to 2006
MP for Tooting from 2005-2016, winning election there three times.
Elected Mayor of London 2016

The man has been serving the people of London, the place he was born and lived in and was schooled in, almost all of his adult life and continues to do so today as the elected Mayor of London. To claim that he 'said not a word about London was run' during his 20 plus years serving as first a councillor, then three terms as MP for Tooting is just sheer unadulterated rubbish. Still let's not let facts get in the way of disparaging someone the brexstremist mob do not like.

Easy tiger....
I have not doubted or questioned Mr Khan's work in his previous career in London, I only asked that this new found "policy" was not mentioned on his ticket to fight his campaign.
This subject has little to do with Brexit so try not to get too personal.

But if you must and I'm sure you must please give some examples of campaigning from say 1994 of his intention to bring this policy into being ?

And for your information I have not signed this petition and as a person who fully accepts democracy have no reason to see him removed.

Sorry Erol, I did not make my point clear and you misunderstood me. I hold no brief for this petition and have no view for or against Mr. Khan and I was not really commenting on either . But I certainly said nothing to indicate that I was "suggesting his arbitrary removal".

What I was really doing was seeking clarification of what seems to me a very complicated issue. And querying the wisdom and ethics (totally regardless of EU membership) of giving additional powers to London , over and above those democratically accruing to any large British City - or indeed small village. I was also pointing out that the term "London" is inaccurate per se : I read it (perhaps erroneously) as referring to the City of London, and London as a financial centre and an attempt to devolve control of big business and finance from the democratically electedGovernment - which I consider to be unwise and liable to lead to even more selfishness and greed on the part of that sector and suffering by the vulnerable. However I may have completely misunderstood and it is just another example of irresponsible, misleading and possibly prejudiced reporting. Either way I would not suggest arbitrary removal of a man who as far as I know has not actually done anything illegal o even unethical, when there are proper democratic processes available to those who dislike his policies.

"...65,255 supporters now..."
As a non-Londoner who has little interest in and most definitely will not be signing this petition, I idly wonder just how many of the signatories are Londoners?
(and also - perhaps with a touch of irony - how many of these are likely to class the Jeremy Kyle/Jerry Springer-type TV as the epitome of intellectual entertainment?)....

65k is nothing there are more than 8.5 million people living in London alone

I am proud Britain is a democracy, he was elected, he is British

show us some genuine reason why he is anti British

turtle wrote:This subject has little to do with Brexit so try not to get too personal.

Have you read the petition linked to in the first post of this thread by Munchkin that is the subject of this thread ? It starts with "As a country we voted against the Tyranny of the European Union and voted out, "

What this petition and Munchkin's support of it are symptomatic of, as far as I am concerned, is the wider trend where by a small minority of barely veiled racists seek to exploit the Brexit vote to promote and justify their minority and inherently racist views as somehow being the views and will 'of the people' generically, off the back of the leave vote.

The Brexit vote is over, we are leaving the EU. We do, I believe, need to move on, to heal divisions and rifts and come together again as a country. As such I believe it is incumbent on all of us, those who voted for Brexit and those who did not, to stand up clearly and unequivocally and make clear that the vote for Brexit was not a vote in support of racist views, not a vote that means it is ok to post 'go home' leaflets in the door of anyone in the UK who is a little to 'non white' or 'non christian' or too 'eastern european', or berate them publicly on busses and the like.

So Turtle whilst I welcome you eventually stating that you do not support this petition as posted by Munchkin and that you recognise the inherent anti democratic nature of it, I remain disappointed by the fact that such was not your first response to it.

Erol
Yes you have managed to do it again ?... turn the debate into your own little crusade.

Read my post on this subject....I asked the question that he never mentioned while campaigning for Mayor of London for the city to have a a voice at the negotiating table, why should it...that's what we employ the government for and as it says in the petition if London gets a seat at the table then so should Birmingham, Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, Edinburgh and all the rest of the big cities.
Have another go at answering my question of where was this subject mentioned in his campaign for Mayor.....its not hard is it ?

turtle wrote:Erol
Yes you have managed to do it again ?... turn the debate into your own little crusade.

I talk about what I want to talk about, as do you.

turtle wrote:Have another go at answering my question of where was this subject mentioned in his campaign for Mayor.....its not hard is it ?

No it is not hard to show that your accusation that Sadiq Kahn had no apparent interest in London having greater devolved powers before he was voted in as Mayor of London is nonsense. That I have not done so is because I believe there is little point in doing so. Hard evidence of his long standing support for greater devolved powers for London will not, I believe, make any difference to your views or position. You want to believe that he only became interested in such things after being elected as mayor of London and showed no interest in the issue before and to try convince others that this is the case and I think you will continue to believe this and try this regardless of any evidence to the contrary, so why bother providing such evidence ?

For what is is worth the following is from a debate in the house of Commons in October 2014

Sadiq Kahn wrote:In London we have a Mayor and an assembly, but we are ambitious to do more. The city still has too little control over its own destiny. Only 7% of all taxes raised from Londoners and London businesses are spent by the different levels of London government, whereas the figure is nearly 50% in New York. Labour has committed itself to devolving significant public service funding and responsibility to London’s government, as well as more fiscal autonomy.

http://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/20 ... Devolution(ScotlandReferendum

I could give countless more examples of Mr Kahn's long standing support and advocacy for greater devolved powers for London that pre date him being voted in as Mayor of London but really what would be the point ? I think you will just ignore or brush them aside or divert from them and carry on asserting that he had no such interest until he became Mayor of London himself, regardless of how much evidence is presented.

Erol you are correct its absolutely pointless.

Sorry for having the cheek to disagree with you again.

erol wrote:

turtle wrote:This subject has little to do with Brexit so try not to get too personal.

Have you read the petition linked to in the first post of this thread by Munchkin that is the subject of this thread ? It starts with "As a country we voted against the Tyranny of the European Union and voted out, "

What this petition and Munchkin's support of it are symptomatic of, as far as I am concerned, is the wider trend where by a small minority of barely veiled racists seek to exploit the Brexit vote to promote and justify their minority and inherently racist views as somehow being the views and will 'of the people' generically, off the back of the leave vote.

The Brexit vote is over, we are leaving the EU. We do, I believe, need to move on, to heal divisions and rifts and come together again as a country. As such I believe it is incumbent on all of us, those who voted for Brexit and those who did not, to stand up clearly and unequivocally and make clear that the vote for Brexit was not a vote in support of racist views, not a vote that means it is ok to post 'go home' leaflets in the door of anyone in the UK who is a little to 'non white' or 'non christian' or too 'eastern european', or berate them publicly on busses and the like.

Erol: for once I entirely agree with you, and I am appalled that the Brexit decision has apparently lead to an increase in racism. However do bear in mind that too much political correctness can be equally damaging. Just because someone happens to be of a different ethnic origin or (or religion,gender of whatever) it does mean that one has necessarily to approve his actions or agree with his opinions!

Ragged Robin wrote:Erol: for once I entirely agree with you, and I am appalled that the Brexit decision has apparently lead to an increase in racism. However do bear in mind that too much political correctness can be equally damaging. Just because someone happens to be of a different ethnic origin or (or religion,gender of whatever) it does mean that one has necessarily to approve his actions or agree with his opinions!

As I agree with you RR. To approve of someone's action or agree with with someone's opinions solely based on their ethnic origin or religion or gender and nothing else is no less racist or prejudice than to disapprove or disagree with them based solely on such things.

However I do not think there is any evidence that this is what I have done in this thread with regards to Sadiq Khan so I remain a little confused as to why you are pointing this out to me ?

turtle wrote:Sorry for having the cheek to disagree with you again.

remember saying this to me not so long ago Turtle ?

turtle wrote:it's just your condescending retorts that gets up peoples hooters,

As to my prediction above that if I were to provide hard evidence that contradicts your claim that Mr Khan had not 'said a word about how London was run' before being elected as Mayor of London, you would just 'ignore or brush aside or divert from' such evidence, all I can say really is, QED.

Yeah...whatever !

turtle wrote:Yeah...whatever !

And if that wasn't a condescending retort then nothing is.

Hooter alert

Living in the north of England, London is a separate country