Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Sobering video. I can understand the feelings being expressed. What would happen if the 'powers that be' in NC decide that foreigners are no longer wanted in NC?

Hector wrote:Sobering video. I can understand the feelings being expressed. What would happen if the 'powers that be' in NC decide that foreigners are no longer wanted in NC?

Do you mean they would forgo all the Sterling that gets spent here by ex-pats, every month amounting to millions of £ every year?

TRNCVaughan wrote:

Hector wrote:Sobering video. I can understand the feelings being expressed. What would happen if the 'powers that be' in NC decide that foreigners are no longer wanted in NC?

Do you mean they would forgo all the Sterling that gets spent here by ex-pats, every month amounting to millions of £ every year?

It seems to me that on issues of 'immigrants' countries do not always act on the basis of what the net benefit or loss of such immigration means in purely monetary terms ? If other countries choose to seek to limit immigration even if that means a loss in net income for that country, is it then so hard to imagine the TRNC choosing to do likewise at some point ?

"What would happen if the 'powers that be' in NC decide that foreigners are no longer wanted in NC"?

Simple taking it that you mean ALL foreigners - the roads would be empty apart from those car's owned by TC's, 90% of the bars and restaurants would no longer require any booking to get a place, land would become worthless as no building would take place for around 50 years (no requirement for new building when thousands and thousands of empty houses would be available), supermarkets would close by the score, hundreds and thousands of cats and dogs would roam the empty streets, hotels and casinos would shut and become empty buildings, swallows would have to find a new place to fly to on holidays, thousands of jobs would be lost and Ercan would revert to 1 plane a day.

Of course if you mean by foreigners just the small minority of expats who live here permanently, then life would go on as normal apart from lots of gardeners would be out of work.

On an Island nation of only 250,000 indigenous people the chance of KKTC ever saying that foreigners are no longer wanted here stands about as much chance as Trump getting re-elected!

Goose and golden egg?

The concern is not “KKTC ever saying that foreigners are no longer wanted” but wider geo-political issues. The UBP/DP Government of the KKTC/TRNC is not in control of its own destiny. It relies on increased subsidy from Turkey, and whereas the previous Government might argue and challenge their paymasters, this Government merely asks “how high?” if Turkey says “jump”.

There is a war of words going on between Turkey and some of its NATO allies in Europe at the moment, so if Turkey wants the TRNC to start being beastly to foreigners, then they will. I'm hoping things will calm down again after the referendum, and everyone will be friends again, in the same way that Turkey and Russia are after last year's tension, but we can't be sure.

What is worth more in terms of the exchequer, money from European residents, or money brought in by people coming from Turkey every weekend to gamble their savings away in the Hotel Casinos?

I think we'll be OK here, but bear in mind the TRNC Government is unrecognised, so any promises they make to us are worth about as much as the title deeds they issue! In the meantime lets all look forward to the Summer -it'll be here soon......

Quite interesting how ex pats around the world waken up to the reality that European status has immense benefits.

The British citizen will soon be another alien. Applying for visas, seeking special travel insurance, Health care insurance, green cards for entry into Europe. The list is indeed quite long and there will be no recourse against European law, rules and entry requirement's.
I expect no easy ride in coming years for British travellers who have taken for granted their European passports.

Ex pats are indeed immigrants . Second level to other European nationals who now have the preferential status.

The very recent announcement of restrictions regarding electronic gadgets for folks flying from Turkey to the UK is just the beginning and the tip of the iceberg .
If I were still living in North Cyprus I would be seriously considering my future there as a UK national.

Lots of time yer without all "will it" "will it not affect us" they made decide those who decided to emigrate stay, made a life there. Same as here. And those with businesses in Uk from Uk tax paying stay. Have to wait.

rocking wrote:Lots of time yer without all "will it" "will it not affect us" they made decide those who decided to emigrate stay, made a life there. Same as here. And those with businesses in Uk from Uk tax paying stay. Have to wait.

Without any question of doubt. The Exit from Europe will have a profound effect and indeed for many years to come as the UK and its citizens re acclimatise to life pre EU. Living or travelling abroad (for Brits) will soon become more difficult and challenging as new legislation, regulations and red tape towards British citizens becomes apparent just as it was pre EU. Take nothing for granted as European status, rights and benefits evaporate.

I remember traveling to many countries around the world. With my 'Black British Passport'. It was accepted almost everywhere, even had a US visa in valid for same term as passport.
Before EU we were ' Free'

I remember travelling to Paphos in 1989 before Cyprus joined the EU, bit of a queue at passport control but no problems getting in! There has been talk of non EU citizens having to get a visa online before travelling, as you do for Turkey, but the costs I've seen seem pretty reasonable and would enable travel throughput the EU.

Everything is done on line anyway for travelling so where will be the difference. Our whole lives are almost dictated by computer technology. No one knows yet how peoples lives will be affected wherever they choose to live or stay. Need to buckle up, The Brits are an intelligent race and can deal with whatever comes their way

Do people actually believe that British people are going to be punished and excluded from the rest of the world for leaving the EU. Are these countries, including the ones in Europe, seriously going to make it difficult for people wishing to visit and holiday there, can countries such as Spain or Greece afford to turn away tourists and their spending power.
People travelled the world before the UK joined Europe and they will continue to do so, as has been said visas are quite easily obtained online and as long as you have a valid passport issued in your country of residence there will be no problem.
I wonder how much longer the gloom and doomers are going to carry on with their dire predictions.

UK citizens travelled in Europe and around the world long before we joined the EU.

I don't envisage any draconian measures being implemented by EU member states, it would not be in their interest to do so......maybe a longer queue at passport control.

Personally we have explored much of Europe and are now looking further afield to India and the Far East. Most of these countries do require a visa or completion of immigration paperwork on arrival.....providing you have an up to date UK passport, it really is not a big deal.

The doom merchants really are grasping at straws.

So,
Perhaps we should yet again look backwards to the good old commonwealth, Imperial Great Britain days. The old Black passport. Perhaps even slavery and good old colonial occupation of India, Kenya etc
Are people really this naïve ?
The simple fact is that European status together with its benefits, security, health care , freedom of travel etc are essentially to be forfeited. The very important trade deals that are critical to the Uk economy are yet to be negotiated and hopefully agreed.

NO BIG DEAL. Just like BREXIT. As inflation hits 2.3% and sterling is destined to fall again. I think the DEAL is positively negative.

Posh,
Having just returned from India and being refused a Business VISA in ROC India commission because of the TRNC issues. UK Citizens have no preferential treatment and soon cannot enter as EU citizens. AS for the Far East in general the same will soon apply..

Too few people have considered the long term future of Europe and indeed the globe given the clear right wing and isolationist politics that is emerging.
Well done the Netherlands for rejecting this proposal and recently halting the clear trend for self centred isolationism.

Was

Having just returned from a month travelling in the Far East I had no issues with entry, paperwork or visas for any country. Indeed Vietnam has as of last year stopped the visa requirements.

As I have said before s UK citizens have travelled all over the world for many years. To think that suddenly we will not be allowed to travel to certain countries for business or pleasure is really stretching your credibility.

Whilst you may be worried, I have no concerns whatsoever.

The simple fact is that European status together with its benefits, security, health care , freedom of travel etc are essentially to be forfeited. The very important trade deals that are critical to the Uk economy are yet to be negotiated and hopefully agreed.

No...the simple facts are health care is down to the UK not the EU and at least 1.2% of the recent inflation was down to oil which us or the EU have no control and as for security are you having a laugh ?

turtle wrote:

The simple fact is that European status together with its benefits, security, health care , freedom of travel etc are essentially to be forfeited. The very important trade deals that are critical to the Uk economy are yet to be negotiated and hopefully agreed.

No...the simple facts are health care is down to the UK not the EU and at least 1.2% of the recent inflation was down to oil which us or the EU have no control and as for security are you having a laugh ?

Turtle tell that to ex pats living and working in Europe.
Your take on inflation is so wrong. Inflation, as I indicated several months ago, is due to collapse of the UK currency.

Oil is purchased in US$. Sterling has lost 18% against the US$. consequently costs within the UK economy are rising and will rise again.

Your clearly have little understanding of global and European security collaboration. The EU arrest warrant as simple example has greatly reduced the criminal movements across borders.

Waz
The oil price has risen by about 35% in the last 12 months.....nothing to do with the pound.

If the pound had held its ground the oil price would still have risen hence inflation.

Turtle,
You clearly have an opinion on UK inflation. My view is different and based on economic fact and understanding of economics.
Inflation has taken grip as you may recall was my forecast back in November last year. That same forecast was based on the fact that UK currency collapsed post referendum result. The cost of oil which is traded in US$ has fuelled the current inflationary rise in may products.
Most imports to the UK are also traded in $ so again inflationary pressure is clear and will be present for some time to come.

The pay back for BREXIT is fast creeping up on you and indeed everyone.

You really do love to big yourself up don't you Waz...

PoshinDevon wrote:Was

Having just returned from a month travelling in the Far East I had no issues with entry, paperwork or visas for any country. Indeed Vietnam has as of last year stopped the visa requirements.

As I have said before s UK citizens have travelled all over the world for many years. To think that suddenly we will not be allowed to travel to certain countries for business or pleasure is really stretching your credibility.

Whilst you may be worried, I have no concerns whatsoever.

Posh
You are still the holder of a UK and European passport and clearly have enjoyed that status for many years. Understandably it is currently business as usual. My view is that the situation will change somewhat when your EU status is surrendered. Whilst I do not suggest you worry unduly over the loss. Entry requirements and border crossings will certainly alter as "alien" status for UK passport holders becomes more common.
I am certain that border controls, visa applications and freedoms of travel will change in due course.
Furthermore. You clearly have a single minded rather personal outlook on the short term effects of the looming divorce. I am not sure if you have children but in my view it will be the generation following yours that will feel the after burn of potential isolationism and segregation from neighbours to the UK.
Without doubt. The UK will endeavour to reciprocate entry requirements for aliens with many countries but you must accept it is the very rejection of immigration and strict border control by the BREXIT majority that will likely hinder the free entrance for UK citizens into other countries.

Now come along boys, behave yourself in the playground. Tomorrow you could be dead by just walking across a bridge admiring the view.

You need to calm down Waz and think through just what you 're saying. Travel for British passport holders will be no different than for holders of American,Australian,Canadian and many more countries who are not EU members. Visas will still be granted, even by EU member states, we travelled before and will continue to do so.

elizabeth wrote:You need to calm down Waz and think through just what you 're saying. Travel for British passport holders will be no different than for holders of American,Australian,Canadian and many more countries who are not EU members. Visas will still be granted, even by EU member states, we travelled before and will continue to do so.

Exactly the point I am trying to make as well.

Whilst we may need a visa or completion of paperwork prior to arrival plus it may take a little longer to process thro arrivals/immigration we will still travel as we did before we joined the EU.

I will still be able to travel with my UK passport after Brexit and any additional burdens such as needing visas etc will be minimal. I will almost certainly not however be able to freely go and live and work anywhere in Europe purely as a matter of my own choice and burdens to be able to do so after Brexit, if such is possible at all, will be considerable. We do not yet know how all this will pan out but I can very easily imagine myself applying for a RoC passport in due course, as is my right, because such will offer me benefits that matter to me that I am likely to loose with my British passport post Brexit. If such a passport does not offer such additional benefits then why would I bother to obtain one at all ? To date I have not bothered to do so as to date a RoC passport does not confer any rights to me that my British one does not. Post Brexit it almost certainly will.

PS look at the original post that started this thread. It was not about Brits ability to travel and how Brexit might change that. It was about Brits ability to live and work in other European countries and how Brexit may change that.

Erol - Good point about living and working in other EU countries and the affect Brexit may have. Similarly those in the EU member states who work in the U.K. would also be considering same.

At the moment there is no detail and one would hope a sensible agreement would be forthcoming. Long way to go and the only sure thing is that the UK is leaving the EU with article 50 soon to be triggered.

I am not at all suggesting that Uk Citizens will be unable to travel. once the EU status is surrendered.
I am saying however that freedoms of travel will become more challenging and difficult. Since being in the EU the UK citizens has enjoyed freedom of entry into at least 28 countries without challenge. EU businesses people have had freedom of access combined with the above,
The EU citizen is has been at home across the continent and enjoyed freedoms that have never ever been seen in previous history. The loss of this cannot be underestimated.
Take the point. My estimate is that 90% of Turkish Cypriots have taken advantage of going South and taken possession of their EU status. Why? To enjoy the benefits that that possession facilitates.
Yes "people" . Do look forward to going backwards to pre 1970 travel options. Just like many have looked backwards with the lost hope that the good old days will return and be better than the current and the future.
BREXIT. If your are going to forfeit membership of the club then be prepared to be stopped at the door, be searched and treated like an alien that you have selected to become. Furthermore. Now that BREXIT damage has become apparent and is gathering pace, even before article 50. Could someone please tell me what positives have emerged to date because I can see absolutely none.

It doesn't really matter how many good points are put up Waz because your mind is totally closed to the idea and wouldn't make a scrap of difference to the discussion would it ?

What idea would that be please?
That after leaving the EU and surrendering EU citizenship the world will swing open its doors and welcome Brits as the new isolationist xenophobic regime that in reality loves all nationalities as long as they don't want to come to the UK.
Because, after all, if they do indeed want to come they only want to litter our streets. Overburden our services and bring no benefit at all.

My word you are a happy chappie ....arn't you.

We're doomed , the end of the world is nigh, for goodness sake lighten up a bit Waz, you'll make yourself ill.
Just a thought, if you can so clearly predict what is going to happen after Brexit, even though it's never been done before, any ideas for the lottery numbers this weekend.

elizabeth wrote:You need to calm down Waz and think through just what you 're saying. Travel for British passport holders will be no different than for holders of American,Australian,Canadian and many more countries who are not EU members. Visas will still be granted, even by EU member states, we travelled before and will continue to do so.

I have not suggested that UK passport holders will be unable to travel. I have indicated that without EU citizenship the traveller both tourist and business will face increased levels of red tape and hassle when crossing borders and applying for visas. Whilst many will see this as only a small inconvenience businesses that export and travel on a daily basis will find associated hassle and delays time consuming and expensive.

You should not take for granted that past decades of EU travel freedoms. I think that many have failed to give the matter sufficient thought. In particular when crossing from TRNC into ROC for example. The animosity that unfortunately still exists between TRNC and ROC will soon be offered a new tool to antagonise UK TRNC supporters.

waz-24-7 wrote:...Could someone please tell me what positives have emerged to date because I can see absolutely none.

Over the past months, you have raised some points with which I agree, and others with which I do not - but sadly, I feel that I now have to ask - have you looked?

jofra wrote:

waz-24-7 wrote:...Could someone please tell me what positives have emerged to date because I can see absolutely none.

Over the past months, you have raised some points with which I agree, and others with which I do not - but sadly, I feel that I now have to ask - have you looked?

I am eyes wide open every day. Given the clear negatives that are emerging even before final separation. I have seen nothing positive of substance or even emerging substance.
I am However eyes and ears open to other peoples views.

One of the City's biggest employers is ‎demonstrating its confidence in London's post-Brexit future as a financial centre with a 25-year deal for a new UK headquarters.

Deutsche Bank has signed an agreement with Land Securities, the FTSE-100 property company, to‎ take a large chunk of a new building being constructed near Moorgate tube station.

The move by Deutsche was announced on its staff intranet by Garth Ritchie‎, the bank's UK chief executive and head of its corporate and investment bank, on Thursday afternoon.

PoshinDevon wrote:One of the City's biggest employers is ‎demonstrating its confidence in London's post-Brexit future as a financial centre with a 25-year deal for a new UK headquarters.

Deutsche Bank has signed an agreement with Land Securities, the FTSE-100 property company, to‎ take a large chunk of a new building being constructed near Moorgate tube station.

The move by Deutsche was announced on its staff intranet by Garth Ritchie‎, the bank's UK chief executive and head of its corporate and investment bank, on Thursday afternoon.

This is indeed good news and I am always encouraged by investment into the UK.
However these snippets have failed to instill confidence to prop up the grossly weakened UK currency. Inflation has now grasped the UK and the beginnings of the BREXIT predicted damage is under way. These two facts are the major headlines of consequential note. There remains deep concern by those in business and government over the future.
I share that concern. I am forced to actively seek out a strategy that will succeed in forthcoming challenging times.

Results of an IPSOS Mori poll published yesterday makes for interesting reading:-


Only 33% of EU respondents think that the EU has been a success.

Only 13% think the EU has made Europe ‘much stronger’

Only 12% think the EU has made their own country ‘much stronger’

Less than 50% think the EU has improved democracy, human rights, and the rule of law

Only 38% think the EU has given them an improved standard of living

76% do not think the EU has had a positive effect on immigration

This is a poll taken across all EU States - seems that not everyone is happy.

PoshinDevon wrote:Results of an IPSOS Mori poll published yesterday makes for interesting reading

Where di you get those figure from PoshinDevon ? I ask becausxe if you go to ipsos Mori's own website there report on this survey seems markedly different from the figures you quote ?

https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpubl ... story.aspx

so to give one example

Over half (53%) people across the 25 countries worldwide think the European project has made Europe stronger, compared to 1 in 7 (14%) who think it has made Europe weaker. The proportion who think it made Europe stronger is somewhat lower in EU countries (46%) – with people in Belgium, Italy and France being the least positive.

Seems pretty different from "Only 13% think the EU has made Europe ‘much stronger’" ? Probably the 'much stronger' vs 'stronger' is the difference. I do suspect that the figures you have given are from an anti EU source that has sought to only cherry pick those figures that suit its agenda and ignore those that do not. Anyway the full report is available online on link give above, including the summary of it by Ipsos Mori's head of politics who paints a pretty different picture to the one the selective partial numbers you quoted show.

PoshinDevon wrote:Results of an IPSOS Mori poll published yesterday makes for interesting reading:-


Only 33% of EU respondents think that the EU has been a success.

Only 13% think the EU has made Europe ‘much stronger’

Only 12% think the EU has made their own country ‘much stronger’

Less than 50% think the EU has improved democracy, human rights, and the rule of law

Only 38% think the EU has given them an improved standard of living

76% do not think the EU has had a positive effect on immigration

This is a poll taken across all EU States - seems that not everyone is happy.

Not sure where these figures are derived from.
However. a simple example to reflect the strength of Europe.
Europe is certainly stronger in the sense that the likelihood of interstate war as seen in 1914 and again in 1938 has entirely disappeared,
Security and safely should be high on the agenda for a united Europe.
Immigration or migration of people is a global phenomenon, not as many think unique to European states.

I think the poll referred to is hardly reflective of life in Europe pre Union and Post 1970.
Peace at home and Peace in Europe. An excellent basis for progress towards unity, understanding and prosperity.

Britain’s post-Brexit prospects have been given a boost with the support of two influential international investors shrugging off concerns about the country’s economy once it quits the EU.

Qatar said it would continue to invest in the UK and revealed plans to sink a fresh £5bn into the country’s infrastructure over the next three to five years, while German industrial giant Siemens reaffirmed its commitment to London.

Source: Reuters News Agency/Financial Times

Thank you Posh,
I appreciate the investment notices that will assist the UK economy.
However. We all still await anxiously the government's plan and negotiation strategy for post BREXIT. It is this that is critical to the UK and indeed for Europe. The agenda is not only the economy though that topic is on the critical list. It is Peace in Europe and its future. The position of the UK in line with other countries views on tolerance , cohesion, multiculturalism, immigration and dealing with global issues of migration and terrorism.

If Europe should follow the UK and the Union breaks up ( unlikely in my view) into pre war separatist nationalistic states. How will peace in Europe appear in say 20 years?
How will British citizens living and working abroad be treated. Can we expect a decline in UK emigration as a result of the anti immigrant and immigration strategy at home?
Will the enforced less liberal generation of British youngsters be hindered by a nationalistic UK public and government in comparison to the liberal cohesive and forward thinking countries that remain true to the European Union founding philosophy,
Will the UK be able to attract the best of the best educated and professional immigrants that are essential to maintain our health service, Industries and administration. I think not. at least to current standards.
Plus of course less skilled immigrants that provide essential labour to agriculture, manufacturing, construction? Certainly other countries rather than the UK will be the attractive option for many as access is easier and the reception more friendly and welcoming. The UK economy will suffer accordingly as will its people. The UK economy is extremely reliant on immigration and anyone who thinks otherwise is simply out of touch and are probably BREXIT supporters that continue to look backwards having lapped up the hype feed to then concerning the costs and negatives of immigration etc etc.

Will the enforced less liberal generation of British youngsters be hindered by a nationalistic UK public and government in comparison to the liberal cohesive and forward thinking countries that remain true to the European Union founding philosophy,

Waz 
The whole founding philosophy of the EU was a simple agreement between nations to trade and live peacefully, we did not join to be governed by faceless eurocrats in another country. 
Had the British public had a vote before Maastricht and more importantly before that Idiot Gordon Brown signed on the dotted line for the Lisbon Treaty that was hated by the British public and without explaining to us what they were giving away the Brexit situation would have never been necessary. 
Over 17m people voted with the pen 9 months ago to regain what our politicians squandered away so get over it.   

turtle wrote:

Will the enforced less liberal generation of British youngsters be hindered by a nationalistic UK public and government in comparison to the liberal cohesive and forward thinking countries that remain true to the European Union founding philosophy,

Waz 
The whole founding philosophy of the EU was a simple agreement between nations to trade and live peacefully, we did not join to be governed by faceless eurocrats in another country. 
Had the British public had a vote before Maastricht and more importantly before that Idiot Gordon Brown signed on the dotted line for the Lisbon Treaty that was hated by the British public and without explaining to us what they were giving away the Brexit situation would have never been necessary. 
Over 17m people voted with the pen 9 months ago to regain what our politicians squandered away so get over it.   

Turt;le
That is your view. Not my own.
I am pleased that you acknowledge the peaceful objective of the Union. That part at least has been a resounding success as peace in Europe has never been so securely founded. With the resurgence of nationalistic and isolationist politics of recent months. I wonder how Europe will look in the next few decades. A return to pre war hostility amongst states is historically very destructive.
I disagree that eurocrats govern the UK. I do agree that reform of governance plus other European reforms are well overdue. The departure from Europe, in my view, is not the solution to that matter or indeed to the perceived problem of immigration . Certainly the dribble over the monetary cost of the Union will very quickly disappear in the post BREXIT wash.

The case is not to get over the fact that the UK will depart the EU. The case now is how will the UK deal with the outfall in the near and more importantly in the decades to follow as world issues and problems present themselves. Is the UK better equipped and ready. In my view NO.
The UK people who voted to leave the EU have taken little heed of world issues and problems but have chosen to follow the ill guided propaganda of isolationism and xenophobia.

Waz 24-7 posted: The UK people who voted to leave the EU have taken little heed of world issues and problems but have chosen to follow the ill guided propaganda of isolationism and xenophobia.

Please provide hard evidence - how do you know? Back this up with facts please.

Posh
He can't back anything up,... he has been banging the same drum for months without success I might add.
Just track back to some of his posts and most of what he predicted has simply not happened but yet he claims to predict the future but really he just regurgitates news posted by so called experts and claims them as his and that is why few people take notice of him.

He changes his emphasis on certain stories as soon as they lose credibility.

PoshinDevon wrote:Waz 24-7 posted: The UK people who voted to leave the EU have taken little heed of world issues and problems but have chosen to follow the ill guided propaganda of isolationism and xenophobia.

Please provide hard evidence - how do you know? Back this up with facts please.

UKIP, primarily via Mr Farage who has conveniently disappeared together with his party peddled a picture of being overrun by immigrants. The same campaign featured the grossly misguided notion that £350 million would be directed into the NHS. I would expect that you have seen the images on the net or in real life on one of his campaign buses.
Regarding the real world issues. Migration and terrorism are world wide problems for a concerted and combined unilateral approach by governments. The UKIP notion like that of Mr Trump, that closing borders and excluding perceived undesirable nationalities, creeds and religions is simple idiocy and is totally outside of any humanitarian goal to coexist, tolerate and seek peaceful harmony.

Farage ...disappeared ??

Waz do you live in a cave !