GC words still widely understood and spoken by TCs

[iancrumpy]

The full title should be :
GC words widely understood and (to a lesser extent) still spoken by TCs

Hi guys,

After posting a message on another forum's thread http://www.embargoedchat.co.uk/Thread-Y ... ust-Coffee my wife suggested I should also start a thread on this forum, as it might be of interest to members who have no desire in attending a coffee morning with linguistical benefits, but do take an interest in how the two communities were (at least at one time) culturally and linguistically connected.

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Many of us have heard Turkish Cypriots use words like "bulli" (for chicken) and we've almost certainly seen "bandabulya" written at the entrance to various enclosed market places. When our beloved Yorgozlu used "guli" (for dog) in his amusing post (on the above thread) it got me thinking how many more Greek Cypriot words have slipped into the everyday vocabulary of the Turkish Cypriots. Therefore, together with my TC wife and her father, I have compiled a list of such Greek Cypriot words.

It is interesting to note they are generally words that one would associate with village life. For my father-in-law, who was brought up in (at that time a mainly-GC) mixed village just the other side of the mountain from Lapta, the Greek-Cypriot words below are indeed generally the ones he heard most often in his childhood days. However, even my wife, who lived in London for much of her upbringing, is familiar with them. It should be noted though that these days even my Father-in-law generally uses the standard (or mainland) Turkish equivalents in conversation.

The Greek Cypriot words are in blue, the equivalent Turkish words are in red and the English ones are highlighted (ie. in black) :

[iancrumpy]

(continued from above)

Alina - hindi - turkey (ie. the bird)

Alizavra – kertenkele - lizard

Ariya - matkap - drill

Asvalya – sigorta – fuse

Bandabulya - kapalı pazar - enclosed market

Bavuri - bidon – a big bottle (for water) or can (for petrol)

Bandofla - terlik - slippers

Bariya – dost – close friend

Baso - Vida adımı - screw (as used with a screwdriver)

Bulli - tavuk - chicken (either on the plate or in the farmyard)

Cira - (Rum) Kadın – (Greek Cypriot) woman

Fica - deniz yosunu - seaweed

Gabira - Kızartılmış ekmek dilimi – a toasted slice of bread

Gabbella - Şapka -hat

Garavulli – salyangoz - snail

[iancrumpy]

(Continued from above)

Gatsavida – tornavida - screwdriver

Gatsot - cimri - stingy

Guli - köpek yavrusu - puppy (ie. young dog)

Gutsilli – izmarit – discarded cigarette end

Golan – Kemer – belt (for trousers)

Lamarina – Sac – corrugated metal (as used for roofs of sheds or houses in villages)

Pirilli - Camdan misket - a marble (ie. for playing with)

Piron – Çatal – fork (ie. for eating with)

Solina - Demir boru veya su borusu – water pipe

Trabez – masa – table

Yiro - tur atmak – to take a stroll

Zirziro - Cırcır böceği veya Ağustos böceği – Cicada

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Many thanks to Havva and Zihni for helping me to compile this list.
Regards,
Ian

[Rambling Rose]

When I returned to the Island (in 1994) a lot of the older generation spoke Greek as well - in some cases better than - Turkish. Bayrak International (radio and television) used to broadcast The News in Greek after the News in English. I was told that this was not (as I originally thought) propaganda for the Greeks but for the benefit of Turkish Cypriots who only spoke Greek. In the late 90s I had one CT student (of English) who was also learning Greek so he could translate for his Grandfather who only spoke that language.

Mainland Turks sometimes complain about the Cypriot version of the language because it incorporates so many Greek words - possibly one of the reasons for the occasional friction between them. As with dialects in other languages, it does seem a shame that in today's global society, Cypriot Turkish seems in danger of being lost.

[iancrumpy]

Hi Rambling Rose,

I had a chat with my Father-in-law about BRT giving news broadcasts in Greek, and he doesn't feel it has anything to do with Turkish Cypriots not understanding standard (or mainland) Turkish ... according to him, even immediately post-74, there was no difficulty for TCs to comprehend the Turkish news broadcasts ... and, seeing as he was brought up in a predominantly Greek-Cypriot village, he should know.

We feel, probably the main reason for the Greek broadcasts on the state-owned channel is for the Turkish Cypriot government to directly inform Greek Cypriots of their intentions and decisions, and not have their messages distorted in translation by the GCs. Another, but less significant reason for the Greek broadcasts, is for the the Greek Cypriots living in the Karpaz and the Greek-speaking Maronites, living in and around Korucam.

Re : "In the late 90s I had one CT student (of English) who was also learning Greek so he could translate for his Grandfather who only spoke that language." - My father-in-law was quite astonished to hear this. Maybe though, your Turkish Cypriot student was the grandchild resulting from a once-in-a-blue-moon mixed-community marriage.

Re : "As with dialects in other languages, it does seem a shame that in today's global society, Cypriot Turkish seems in danger of being lost." - I know I should support efforts to preserve their dialect as part of their cultural identity and all that ... but after living for so many years in Istanbul I also find that Cypriot Turkish sometimes grates on me ... let's hope that Yorgozlu doesn't come on to this forum and read that though

Regards,
Ian

[iancrumpy]

Hi again Rambling Rose,

Please allow me to explain one more point :

Re : "Mainland Turks sometimes complain about the Cypriot version of the language because it incorporates so many Greek words".

Although clearly not a mainland Turk, please allow me to answer on their behalf - they don't object to the TCs' use of Greek words, they object to the way the TCs distort and manipulate the Turkish language.

Firstly it's the way that TCs take out whole syllables from spoken phrases/questions/sentences. So far example :
"Çay istiyor musun?" is reduced to "Çay isten" . The 'n' there is very short. By the way it means "Do you want tea?" (said to a friend though)
"Ne yapiyorsun?" is "N'apan?" In English it means "What are you doing?" (again said to a friend)

Secondly it’s the way TCs have distorted individual Turkish words :
For example 'k's at at the beginning of a word are pronounced with a 'g'. eg. "kadın" (ie. "woman") is pronounced "gadın".
Also the 'z' at the end of first person plural verbs is changed to a 'k', eg "gidiyoruz" (ie. "we are going") becomes "gidiyoruk".

Don't understand me wrongly : I am not saying these are incorrect. I am merely trying to point out the objections made by mainlanders - it is not the TCs’ use of GC words, it is the TCs’ manipulation of the “standard” Turkish language.

The mainlanders’ objections though seem to made more tongue-in-cheek than anything else, in the same way that the British criticise the Americans for their use of English. Doesn’t it grate on you when the Americans take a whole syllable out of “aluminium” to say “aluminum”. The mainlanders feel the same way about the Cypriot Turkish dialect.

Regards,
Ian

[Rambling Rose]

Hi ,, Ian, Dakika is another - becomes more like dakka in Cypriot, though I can't really talk about accent as I have a poor ear for it. But, of course, taking your American Engish example, both English and American have numerous dialects, and I guess (to use an Americanism!) so does Turkish . Not sure about Cypriot Turkish.

As for your first post, I can only quote what I have been told about the Broadcasts, but I take your point that the Broadcasts may have at least in part been intended for Greeks in the Karpas and Maronites. I certainly have known Turkish Cypriots whose first language was Greek and even reverted to it under stress. As for the student, I am sure his grandfather was TC because I and the mainland Turks in the class were rather surprised and queried it, but the TCs just sort of shrugged and said "it happens". I think it might depend on the part of the Island they come from. Limassol had a higher Greek/Turkish ratio than most, and all the TCs i knew there spoke fluent Greek, and I think perhaps most of those I quoted from more recently came from that part.

The comment about too much Greek in Cypriot Turkish was made by a couple of mainlanders, not so much critising as suggesting that if I wanted to learn Turkish I should do it properly. Mind, I have also heard Cypriots comlaining the Istanbul accent is too "affected" and wordy.

Certainly accents do divide us all - I find a lot of the English accents I hear grate! And me from God's own contry!

Its a fascinating subject, thanks for raising it. Its a thought that any form of integration in future may well be handicappped as the new generations of TC grow up without knowing Greek.

[iancrumpy]

Hi again Rambling Rose,

Re : "Dakka" - that is actually also used on the mainland.

Re : "As for the student, I am sure his grandfather was TC because I and the mainland Turks in the class were rather surprised and queried it, but the TCs just sort of shrugged and said "it happens". I think it might depend on the part of the Island they come from." - OK fair enough Rose

Re : "Greek in Cypriot Turkish was made by a couple of mainlanders, not so much critising as suggesting that if I wanted to learn Turkish I should do it properly." - It's true in that the written Turkish you study will not (at least grammatically) be the same as the Turkish you hear around you. But that's not because of Greek words - relatively speaking TCs use very few of them - and none when they talk to you - it's because of the way the TCs have (sounds bad, but) distorted the "standard" Turkish.

Re : "It's a thought that any form of integration in future may well be handicappped as the new generations of TC grow up without knowing Greek." - Generally TCs younger than 60 speak absolutely no Greek. And it's interesting to note that for future possible integration, the level of English amongst this age group is also far below that of 60+ age group.
One more thing to ponder though Rose - my father-in-law tells me that in his village it was always the TCs speaking Greek with the GC boys, not the other way round. And these days he and other TCs quite often meet up with old GC friends and the language of conversation is either English or ... Greek ... never Turkish. One wonders if this has anything to do with the mindset of those little Greek Cypriot boys running around the village in the early 50s.

Re : "Its a fascinating subject" - Yes Rose, I may be a Mathematician, but the origin of words really interests me. Let me leave you with this :
A few hours ago, we had a power-cut here in Lefkoşa, and my in-laws started joking about getting out the "gololambi" ... and then explained the origins of this both GC and TC word:
"Gololambi" means an improvised paraffin lamp, but "golo" is Greek for one's bottom and "lambi" is "lamp" - its name originates from having to visit the outside toilet in the dark, and the lamp that one took to enable you to see what you were doing there

Regards,
Ian

[sophie]

When I, for a few months, went to Lessons (I gave it up unfortunately because the suffixes had me climbing the walls in frustration), shop assistants, waiters, guys at the petrol station, used to smile, not at my pronunciation which apparently was very good, but because I sounded "posh". Seemly it's very difficult to win in these situations isn't it? For an anglo saxon ear, it really is a difficult language to comprehend.

[iancrumpy]

Hi Sophie,

If the Turkish you spoke of is that gleaned from text books, ie. teaching you the "standard" Turkish, then it will indeed sound formal or "posh" to Turkish Cypriots. However, one wonders how many of the "shop assistants, waiters and petrol-pump attendants" here would actually be TCs. In any case, if it's any consolation, back in the early 90s the waiters etc in Istanbul used to behave in a similar way to me. I too was told that my sentence-construction was very good and (apart from apparently speaking Turkish with a Bristolian accent ) Turkish teachers (who I worked alongside) were impressed with my level of the language. My problem used to arise when I came across Turks not accustomed to foreigners speaking their language and therefore not expecting them to do so - I well remember visiting a birahane to meet a Turkish friend in a part of town I'd not visited before. After finishing my first beer I said to the waiter "Bir bira daha getirebilir misinz acaba?" (which is a very polite way of saying "Can you possibly bring me another beer?") The waiter stared at me with a blank face before my Turkish friend simply said "Bir daha"

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In any case, returning more to the subject of this thread, everyone's favourite TC Yorgozlu, yesterday told me the following TC saying:
"Okundurdum, yazındırdım. Bala gudalya, bala gudalya", half of which is in Turkish and half of which is in Greek, which basically means in English "After all this education, you're still not a man". The story behind the saying goes like this :

A Turkish Cypriot boy sits down to eat dinner with his family, and asks for a "gudalya" (Greek Cypriot for "spoon"). This annoys his Father, because he has had his son educated in Turkish, but his son is still using the Greek Cypriot picked up in the village. So, the Father says "Okundurdum, yazındırdım" ("I provided you with an education that enabled you to read and write in Turkish"). And goes on to tell his son in Greek "Bala gudalya, bala gudalya" ("But still you are saying 'gudalya' for spoon") The message of the saying is "After all the education, you still haven't become a man" ... but of course it is amusing in that the Father is no better (or worse) than his son in this respect ... because he telling his son off in in Greek

Regards,
Ian

[Rambling Rose]

Yes, I know what you mean about that blank expression. It does not speak well for the English that people fail to realise that the language one is trying to speak is theirs!!! But English is in some ways a forgiving language - one can mispronounce it or murder the grammar and still be understood. In Turkish one only has to get one word out of order in the sentence or confuse a two or three syllable suffix and you have probably changed the whole meaning and said something very rude!

Mind you, I still cherish the expression on the face of a "gentleman" in Istanbul, who really annoyed me. An apparently gullible female tourist of a certain age suggesting, in his own language , that his immediate ancestry might include an animal with long ears, sent him into severe shock!

As for Cypriots "manipulating" the Turkish language I have heard the reverse argued - that Cypriot is truer to the origins of the language. A bit, I suppose, like the second person singular "thou" and "thee" still being used in some Engish dialects , though they are obsolate in common usage, or the American "gotten". I think your qoted "k" ending may well be a relic of an older form of thelanguage.

[iancrumpy]

Hi again Rambling Rose

Re : "In Turkish one only has to get one word out of order in the sentence or confuse a two or three syllable suffix (for Turks not to understand you)" - But that wasn't the reason Rambling Rose - it was because they weren't expecting a foreigner to speak Turkish. There was another occasion when I got on a dolmuş on the outskirts of Istanbul, that was going in the direction of the boarding school where I worked. All others on the mini-bus were (for want of a better word) peasants from Eastern Turkey. To make sure I was on the correct dolmuş I asked one of the other passengers "Köylere gidiyor mu?" ("Is this bus going to the villages") There then followed an almost Monty Python-like sketch where the man in question asked others on the mini-bus "Burda Ingilizce bilen var mı?" ("Does anyone speak English here") He then went on to say "Adamın ne dediğini anlamiyorum" ("I don't understand what he's saying") However, I then spoke again to the man, and he finally realised I was speaking his language ... and then we chatted in Turkish for a minute or so The point I am trying to make Rose is that he wasn't expecting me to speak Turkish, that was the problem.

Re : "I have heard ... that Cypriot is truer to the origins of the language" - I have heard that said as well.

Re : "I think your quoted "k" ending may well be a relic of an older form of the language." - that may well be true Rose.

In any case, it's always nice talking with you Rose
Ian

[Rambling Rose]

Nice talking to you, too, Ian. I did actually agree with you about them not expecting the English to be trying to speak Turkish!

The other situation I meet is that I may be trying to learn Turkish, but they want to practice their English. I was in the village shop when someone sneezed and I automatically said "Bless you", immediately correcting myself to "Çok yaşa' (live long). The woman behind me immediately asked me to repeat what I had said in English, as she wanted to learn the English expression, and the business of the shop stopped while everyone crowded round for an impromptu English lesson.