Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

It transpires that UK drivers with the photo card type Driving Licences are falling foul of the regulations when driving abroad and being fined 1,000 Euros because the photo has a limited life span and needed to be updated - a fact of which they are blissfully unaware.

This will occur when you use an existing photo in the UK gov system e.g. the stock photo used for your passport renewal when applying for a new Driving Licence. Many folk do not register that the licence gives a date that the photo expires and that may at an earlier date than the licence does!

When stopped for in other EU countries the old bill there think it a right wheeze to issue on the spot fines for having a licence with an out-of-date photograph.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel ... ng-licence

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/lif ... ng-licence



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The photo card licence is only valid for 10 years. The expiry date is clearly displayed underneath the photograph.

I thought that when using the passport photo for licence purposes it had to be less than a certain age.

I have no 4b on my licence.

Seems like scaremongering.

Martin Lewis is not known for scaremongering... however, it may well be that you only have a 4b date if the photo is older than the licence... i.e. it will expire before the licence and requires an earlier renewal.... otherwise I can't see the point of ML's article (see the clip).

It would explain how some people have run into problems thinking they need not do anything for 10 years but there is a 'hidden' date for the photo that expires before the 10-year licence and is sitting there like a time-bomb.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/changes-to- ... categories

The following changes will apply to the front of new driving licences:

all dates will be shown as DD.MM.YYYY
categories shown will be separated by a slash
the date in 4b will show the licence expiry date

I've just looked at mine, and I would have said that '4b' is the expiry date of the licence, not the card or the picture.

There is a date printed on the picture itself, (in my case, it's the same date as '4b', as I need to renew my licence every 3 years, being over 70) - and I would take that date to be the expiry date of the picture, and hence the card on which the picture is printed.

Any clarification welcomed!

P.s. hilltop! - are you saying that there is no expiry date on your licence card?

An afterthought: -

On the back of the card, there is a 'key', giving the meaning of the code numbers. Codes 10 & 11 are mentioned, as relating to 'Valid from' and 'Valid to'. I don't seem to have either of these!

Codes 10 and 11 refers to the table on the back showing which vehicle types you can drive.

Mine has the 22/08 & 23/08 as expiry dates cost to renew
Then in December of the same year has to be renewed for free as I hit 70

kerry 6138 wrote:Codes 10 and 11 refers to the table on the back showing which vehicle types you can drive.

Thank you - well spotted!

This may further explain the codes on the rear of the photo card (12 codes):

https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-codes

Keithcaley wrote:
P.s. hilltop! - are you saying that there is no expiry date on your licence card?

No. Just that I have no 4b.

Groucho wrote:Martin Lewis is not known for scaremongering..

The site is now a commercial enterprise.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... r-87m.html

Hilltop wrote:

Keithcaley wrote:
P.s. hilltop! - are you saying that there is no expiry date on your licence card?

No. Just that I have no 4b.

I see, thank you for that information.

Could I ask just how the Licence Expiry date is identified?

Hilltop wrote:

Groucho wrote:Martin Lewis is not known for scaremongering..

The site is now a commercial enterprise.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... r-87m.html

Mr Lewis, who is also a Telegraph columnist, is to retain his position as editor-in-chief of MoneySavingExpert and Moneysupermarket said it would "preserve the editorial independence" of the website, "free of commercial considerations".

Keithcaley wrote:

Hilltop wrote:

Keithcaley wrote:
P.s. hilltop! - are you saying that there is no expiry date on your licence card?

No. Just that I have no 4b.

I see, thank you for that information.

Could I ask just how the Licence Expiry date is identified?

It seems clear that there is some confusion... not least I am confused... but I think what they are trying to point out is that some UK photo driving licences have two dates that you need to keep an eye on... one is the 10 year expiry date 4b and another is any date printed on the photo... because if that is different (and it seems in some cases it can be) then when stopped if driving abroad and the date on the photo has expired then you may be given an on-the-spot fine.

I can't see any commercial gain for Martin Lewis making this known - they don't operate in the licence renewal field as far as I know....

My wife fell foul of this when trying to obtain her TRNC license, our man who was sorting it out went to the office in Lefcosa and the staff there noticed her expiry date was well past so had to send to UK for new license which
was very easy to do online via the Government Gateway and cost £14.00. All sorted within two weeks and she is now in possession of a brand new TRNC license.

Bullsnil wrote:My wife fell foul of this when trying to obtain her TRNC license, our man who was sorting it out went to the office in Lefcosa and the staff there noticed her expiry date was well past so had to send to UK for new license which
was very easy to do online via the Government Gateway and cost £14.00. All sorted within two weeks and she is now in possession of a brand new TRNC license.

Hi, when you say "Her expiry date was well past", are you referring to the licence expiry date, or to the photo expiry date?

It is the photo expiry date that we are mainly interested in.

Thanks in advance

The photo expiry date. Actually ran out in 2013 how bad is that!

Was finding this thread a little confusing this article makes it clear.

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/blog/entry/l ... ces/46025/
This past year, in my capacity as a motoring law solicitor, I’ve heard of a number of instances where 4b on the licence has caused confusion. It’s the date at which your photo expires or, as the reverse of the licence puts it, ‘licence valid to’.

However, this is where the confusion starts as it suggests the licence itself expires on that date, which it doesn’t.

kerry 6138 wrote:Was finding this thread a little confusing this article makes it clear.

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/blog/entry/l ... ces/46025/
This past year, in my capacity as a motoring law solicitor, I’ve heard of a number of instances where 4b on the licence has caused confusion. It’s the date at which your photo expires or, as the reverse of the licence puts it, ‘licence valid to’.

However, this is where the confusion starts as it suggests the licence itself expires on that date, which it doesn’t.

Ah! - I think that I see what you mean - it should really say "This document valid to: "

But - to add further to the confusion and differing opinions -
the article states "To find the actual expiry date, look at column 11 on the back of your licence where the date printed commonly coincides with your 70th birthday." (my underlining).
I first obtained a photo driving licence (together with a paper Counterpart Driving Licence) in December 2014, providing a photograph at that time; this photo therefore is not ten years old, but nevertheless has a "4b" date of December this year.
However, my licence specifies in column 11 for all groups, expiry in December this year, so clearly my licence does expire - all of this is because I reached 70 in 2014, whereupon I must renew my licence every 3 years!
To me, this suggests that -
1. IF you currently hold a photo driving licence (with paper counterpart) and are under 60, the photo expires as per 4b (when 10 years old?), but the licence expires when you reach 70 - do 4b and column 11 differ?
2. Once you reach 70, you must renew and renew again every 3 years thereafter - perhaps if an old stock photo from passport is used, that might expire in less than the 3 years, so renew even sooner....
Also, my paper counterpart also shows a provisional (licence) entitlement - that also expires December this year....
Of course, if (like my son) you have a paper licence from before 1998, you don't need to worry until you reach 70..... unless (as suggested) they make photo licences compulsory for all before then....

I have to renew my licence every three years over 70 I have just done this on line, no new photo they have used the one from 6 years ago, new date on the photo valid until 2020.

So the main thrust of this thread is correct in that and I quote "Failing to update your photo is a non-endorseable offence although it could carry a fine."

So drivers stopped abroad with a photo that has passed its expiry date can be hit with an on the spot fine... Which is what Martin Lewis was trying to alert people to...

The actual offence committed is failing to notify DVLA of up-to-date information, contrary to s.99.5 of the Road Traffic Act

Just checked my UK photo card driving licence and found the expiry date on my photo which I'd never noticed or been aware of before. Both expire on the same date which is my 70th birthday (which obviously is at least 25+ years away ) Thank you to Groucho for bringing this up.

A new question if I may, is what happens if you don't have a photo card licence, as someone I know, say no more, still uses her, in date, UK paper driving licence?

Hector wrote:Just checked my UK photo card driving licence and found the expiry date on my photo which I'd never noticed or been aware of before. Both expire on the same date which is my 70th birthday (which obviously is at least 25+ years away ) Thank you to Groucho for bringing this up.

A new question if I may, is what happens if you don't have a photo card licence, as someone I know, say no more, still uses her, in date, UK paper driving licence?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/driv ... ce-changes