Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

I walk through the Turkish quarter a few times every week, since they have improved the road and footway, fortunately, it now makes it easier to park for the Landrovers, BMW's and Mercs . 15 years ago, the Renault 12 TL's didn't take up so much space, and I didn't have to walk in the road that much. So I progress up to Sancar Mah, and look at the enormous apartment blocks that appear every couple of months. I interests me to see they are mostly all occupied, and built by builders from the mainland. I suspect a lot of Mainland Turkish people may be settling here in addition to staff that work in the casinos. I then get to the main road, the traffic is solid from the Bellapais lights, and from the Lefkosha roundabout. I stood waiting for someone to let me cross, amazingly a Renault 12 TL slowed allowing me to cross ! BMW Merc VW Audi etc, just went past, never saw me I guess, most on their mobile. Three couples I know, her for 15 years or so are leaving, no medical or grandchildren stuff. All the experts I read on here from where to buy marmite to the best baked beans, not living here mostly I suspect, may wish to tell me why this country is not going to the dogs !

You are right about your assessment, in our time during the last 12 years, things have gone mad. High rise buildings and traffic are most noticable. The basic Turkish Cypriot is still the same kind and helpful person buy they seem to be being swamped. Where we live in Karsiyaka, there were two other buildings in sight when we built ours, now virtually all we can see is concrete. Time me thinks for a reappraisal.

All things change. Staying like the past 10 years. UK or anywhere else is never calling me, except change because where you go back to will have changed for sure.

The Cypriots with links to UK, and the British have lost out due ultimately to UK & EU policy and embargoes. No direct flights, other difficulties, impacted on Tourism & economy catastrophically to the point most/nearly all Cypriots owned hotels that were focused on UK/European markets have failed. Same is repeated in property. Orams case, other cases where developers mortgaged land etc has killed UK market and there is total loss of confidence.

The on!y people doing business here that recognise it and see no illegality, are the mainland Turkish companies and hotels with Casinos. They are catering for Turkish domestic market where there are multiple direct flights from daily. They bring with them their employees and families, they build and buy property, etc.. Similar is true of the universities.

UK / EU / UN slapped the Turkish Cypriot in the face post Annan, and turned its back on them. Turkey is the main player, the British / EU are packing their bags and going, as the situation they created is not attractive for their own citizens either.

As my old Dad used to say "If things don't alter, they'll stay as they are!"

zcacmxi wrote:The Cypriots with links to UK, and the British have lost out due ultimately to UK & EU policy and embargoes. No direct flights, other difficulties, impacted on Tourism & economy catastrophically to the point most/nearly all Cypriots owned hotels that were focused on UK/European markets have failed. Same is repeated in property. Orams case, other cases where developers mortgaged land etc has killed UK market and there is total loss of confidence.

The on!y people doing business here that recognise it and see no illegality, are the mainland Turkish companies and hotels with Casinos. They are catering for Turkish domestic market where there are multiple direct flights from daily. They bring with them their employees and families, they build and buy property, etc.. Similar is true of the universities.

UK / EU / UN slapped the Turkish Cypriot in the face post Annan, and turned its back on them. Turkey is the main player, the British / EU are packing their bags and going, as the situation they created is not attractive for their own citizens either.

I beg to differ with your opinion , I have only seen bookings increase over the years , true the choice of in-direct flights into Ercan, has seen a growing number flying into Larnaca (and with far more carriers covering that route, prices are far,far lower ) , but still they come , repeat bookings are a mainstay , so we must be doing something good , as to your comment of "most/nearly all Cypriots owned hotels that were focused on UK/European markets have failed." , once again I beg to differ , many are sold out to the UK/EU market for the most of this year and some of next.
How can you say in the same phrase " impacted on Tourism & economy catastrophically " and then add "they bring with them their employees and families, they build and buy property, etc.. Similar is true of the universities.", Do these not have a positive impact on the economy ?

I am very surprised by your post ttoli as the past 2-3 years I have seen a lot less tourists in Girne,we go regularly and there are much less tourists now

Making myself clearer, the "British / Western centric Economy" has declined.
Overall the Economy has grown (massively), as has property, tourists, students, etc.
But the people coming are from Turkey in the vast majority. The hotels and restaurants are catering for them.
Another example is Ercan Airport. It too has more flights and passengers and is busier than ever before. There were 700 flights in the Bayram week, and 50,000 passengers. All of the flights are from Turkey, and about a dozen different airports there. Very few of the passengers are transit. It is the Turkish airport. UK / EU doesn't recognise it, so passengers in decline from those destinations.
A tour guide friend of mine said this year, in a typical coach load of tourists on a visit the majority are from Turkey and Isreal. There may be a handful from UK.
EU / UK policy has made North Cyprus less attractive to the west.
That's why Cypriots & British are now outnumbered by Turkish people and visitors. All Turkish airlines to Ercan, all shops Turkish, all hotels Turkish.

"Making myself clearer, the "British / Western centric Economy" has declined." - Not sure if this is true, maybe it has stayed the same but the dramatic increase in mainland Turkish visitors, students and businesses would make it seem like a decline? As the incomes of the British/Western population, in particular the British are in decline and facing the unknown perils of Brexit as well, maybe they are just being more careful with their money and taking cheaper holidays closer to home. The lack of "disposable" funds coupled with the difficulties in property purchase and ownership to any but mainland Turkish must also be a major factor.

"EU / UK policy has made North Cyprus less attractive to the west." - Let us not forget that Cyprus policy regarding mortgages and house purchase, made much easier for the mainland Turkish than anyone else, must have had an effect on tourists and those wishing to relocate. As far as I can see there has been no change in the number of flights into Ercan from International departure points, only domestic flights have increased as would be expected.

When it comes down to it, the fault is not with Turkey or with Cyprus, it lies firmly at the doors of the EU and the UN who are still keeping the Cypriots of North Cyprus prisoners in their own country by their unwillingness to see through the thin veil of lies cleverly spread by the RoC. I honestly believe that should the current embargoes be lifted - which I doubt will ever happen due to the financial impact it would have on the RoC losing their money making UN forces - then the current situation will change quite rapidly.

As it stands, anyone who has spent some years living here should have been able to see what would most probably happen in the future. The interest rates of 22% on savings were never going to last, the property prices would eventually stabilize, more people of differing nationalities would move here to settle, in other words, a process of change would occur. Knowing that, people either made up their minds to stay forever or to short term stay in the hopes of making a profit on property sales and then depart to whence they came.

There is no crystal ball that shows the future, it is up to every individual to decide if they wish to stay or leave, for whatever reasons. We have chosen to stay, accept the changes and enjoy life - the alternative of a two week long summer and the chance of being shot/stabbed/burgled/mugged/suffer acid attack, whilst continuing to pay heavy rates/bills in our country of origin seems to us to be no choice at all.

I too have seen the TRNC change over past 10 yrs certainly. Turkish investment maintains a de facto control on the region. Indigenous populous gets ever more diluted but unsurprisingly most maintain a comfortable seat on the Turkish gravy train.

The Isolation of the TRNC in a way maintains its attractiveness as a Mediterranean backwater. More difficult to access, poorly marketed as a tourist destination and off the beaten track.

If embargoes are lifted and a settlement arrives expect massive change as investment, capitalism and opportunists turn the backwater into another costa del sol.

What do you really really want?

Mediterranean backwater - but not at the expense of the indigenous populous!!!

Well said waz-24-7. Since the early 80's, the opening of the Border Crossings altered the status Quo Just Enough to make a positive difference. Whatever changes are coming must be gradual as not to totally destroy the "Way of Life" in TRNC.

Looks like I'm the only one coming, we are flying over in a months time to view a list of properties.
We were over in August when we got talking to a few locals whom said its a buyers market at present.
How much has prices fallen, are they at the bottom ? is it like the UK in making a lower offer on a property.
Not looking to make money on a purchase in the future just looking for a house to call home.
Any help would be appreciated as finding out the above is hard when in the UK.

No longer the jewel in the crown the place was 10 - 15 years ago, an in crease in population with an infrastructure that cannot support it. The Islamifiction of the mainland is driving the liberal minded Turk to seek a way forward in a place where normal western freedoms exit. Eventually N Cyprus will be be dominated by the Motherland and the T/C will become a diluted and forgotten race. Paying the price for the constant handouts the Turkification of the North is inevitable, and with that its appeal to westerners will decline.

I believe the notion that the indigenous TC is hard done by is somewhat misleading.
The gravy train funded by Turkish coffers is firmly in favour of indigenous TC.
The TRNC administration, its governance , policing, welfare, direction and politics remains firmly and exclusively the domain of indigenous TC.
Those TC 's that are sharp and cunning enough. Milk the situation to massive financial and status advantage.

I am uncertain that a settlement is in fact a desirable outcome for this section of local life.
Certainly the economics of the region is stifled and favours the advantaged TC .

The wealth of some TC is abundantly clear and many take full advantage of the clear value the region has to Turkey.
Good luck to them.

I think some should really take a closer look at the realities, smell the coffee and possibly take a new view on how the region will move forward.

Been coming to Cyprus since 1970 in various guises. In the 70s a trip from the Limassol area was an all day challenge. A long journey on not so good roads but a beautiful part of the island. Really fell in love with the north when here in 1983 and access was strictly controlled. As military personnel we could obtain permission to come across for the day....returning by midnight! It was a step back in time. In the early 90s things were a bit more relaxed and military personnel were allowed across for 3 days......fantastic. Again the north just felt like the Cyprus of 20 years ago.

Change happens and yes we have noticed change each and every time we returned over all these years. The influx on Turkish mainlanders has increased dramatically. However the place still,holds a draw for us and we never tire of the place warts and all. For those that know and love this island whilst change is inevitable it still gives a great way of life, brilliant weather, beautiful places and lovely food. If you make an effort there is still plenty to explore and it's easy to find places the package holiday tourist will never find or discover.

It's a great place to be.

I am coming and will be arriving in N.Cyprus in late September with my cat and followed by my Harley Davidson! I have had a house since 2001 and have been itching to leave the UK for a different life for some years. The draw of a country without obsession with technology, where you can speak to people in a bank, where there is no junk mail coming through a non-existent letter box, where you can use cash without being frowned on due to the move towards a cashless society. Where there isn't a CCTV camera on every lamppost, where you can say what you want without the fear of the political correct team policing you. I will defend the right to free speech to the death no matter how unpalatable. Where the local newspaper is still 'allowed' to post mother-in-law jokes. Need I go on? The UK has become a surveillance state taken over by identity politics (and regardless of left/right its the same wizard behind the curtain).

Give me the absence of queues, long waits and let downs, bizarre unexpected behaviour and customs, an extreme lack of elf'n'safety and all the other quaint things that N.Cyprus offers and I will have my freedom! Its interesting that many Brits have mentioned the danger of living in a muslim country - which I find highly amusing as I have never felt safer than when in N.Cyprus. When I come its for good and there will definitely be no going back....for which I am sooooo grateful <3

Change happens everywhere , the Kent Village that I grew up in , in the '70's and onward , now overcome by yobs on stolen scooters that know if they do commit a crime, police will not pursue, (in case the little darlings are injured) , Yes North Cyprus is changing, political situation in Turkey , has prompted that , but it's still a place that I feel 100% safe in and feel lucky to call it home

TAC don't be fooled by property prices you get what you pay for even though prices are much lower than the UK .
Buying here is fraught with inbuilt dangers and the bottom end I.e. Small apartments are selling quite well to main land Turks and Russians. This will filter through to the more expensive places. Whatever you consider, you will need to be very,very careful, lots have lost a lot of money.

TAC - I have sent you a PM.

Well I suppose I'm wrong then, I thought it was going down hill. I cannot see how the infrastructure and services, can support the building that is taking place, someone mentioned the food, in the markets, I agree, except tomatoes which are usually disgraceful. Then getting here, after 15 years, I despair of Ercan flights, when I go back to UK, I now go from Larnaca. The EU will never lift embargoes here, you will never get a direct flight. I suppose, having gone to school here, now 70, it was better in those days. Good luck to the prospective incomers, you'll need it, especially in January !

Why January particularly Muffet?

The weather

Indeed, the weather. Some people come here to set up home not appreciating that some months can be very cold and wet, they have not made full provision for this. You have to consider that December, January and February, and sometimes March, can be quite difficult. Houses and apartments mostly have ceramic tile flooring, once the sun has gone the property cools quite quickly. So if you are going to come here, you need to make provision for this. You can research on this site, nearly all of the options as to how to heat your place. The destination for winter sun, can be quite misleading ! having said that, I wish you the best ! PS We have actually eaten Christmas lunch on the beach in Karpaz !

pc4854 wrote:TAC don't be fooled by property prices you get what you pay for even though prices are much lower than the UK .
Buying here is fraught with inbuilt dangers and the bottom end I.e. Small apartments are selling quite well to main land Turks and Russians. This will filter through to the more expensive places. Whatever you consider, you will need to be very,very careful, lots have lost a lot of money.

Thanks for your warnings I have been doing a lot of research as much as one can do on the internet and yes I have read about people losing a lot of money and some still might do.
I wont be buying a new build and there is two estate agents I wont be dealing with thanks to this site.
Not in the market for a apartment but if the bottom end is selling then yes this can filter through to the top end hopefully not before I buy mine.
In the UK you can see what houses have sold for over the years does this exists in over there ?

David wrote:The weather

Muffett - I am just about to leave England ....and you talk to me about January weather .....come over here and make the comparison

I do appreciate the heads up ...I have spent holidays during the winter season in my home and have an open fire and remember the cold... but.... I also know it in the UK and my house here wasn't much better....

Mufflet wrote:Well I suppose I'm wrong then, I thought it was going down hill. I cannot see how the infrastructure and services, can support the building that is taking place, someone mentioned the food, in the markets, I agree, except tomatoes which are usually disgraceful. Then getting here, after 15 years, I despair of Ercan flights, when I go back to UK, I now go from Larnaca. The EU will never lift embargoes here, you will never get a direct flight. I suppose, having gone to school here, now 70, it was better in those days. Good luck to the prospective incomers, you'll need it, especially in January !

Wow if its infrastructure you want take a look at the UK ? its pants.
And if you want to criticise the airport then try and get out of Manchester without a delay or some cock up along the way and don't get me going on tomatoes...the crap we buy from UK supermarkets nowadays go bad in less than a few days.

Why buy ? .. can rent something really nice for under £400 pcm do that then look around.

Great advice from David. You can then look at areas, facilities you want and property types at your leisure.

And if you intend to move here permanently continue to rent.

The only reason I can see not to do so (rent) is if you intend to be a "swallow" - living here for only part of the year.

Of course your mileage may vary!

Not easy to rent on a pension though £400 per month is half of mine. Happily I own my house.

Deniz 1
If the purchase money was put in the bank then the interest would cover the rent.

In response to Mr Davidson. I hope you are not in the grass is greener. I have to tell you, you are right, the crime is less here, difficult to compare it though. It has increased here, especially Burglary, and some violent crime. Yes, wherever you go, you are bound to get crime, but compared to a few years ago here it is really increasing. Some years ago, no one locked their doors, now look at the companies who are offering security systems, must tell you something. You will find that there are now gated communities with all the CCTV cameras you could wish for, and they are increasing, again it's telling you something. The Russian incomers like this. Should you wish for details, documented of serious crime, and other crime here, here, then I can certainly supply it. Nevertheless, I wish you well !

Just read the entry by dippersgirl, I rest my case..............

Just read LGC news, TRNC operators turn to Larnaca to avoid bankruptcy....................I rest my case again !

Mufflet wrote:In response to Mr Davidson. I hope you are not in the grass is greener. I have to tell you, you are right, the crime is less here, difficult to compare it though. It has increased here, especially Burglary, and some violent crime. Yes, wherever you go, you are bound to get crime, but compared to a few years ago here it is really increasing. Some years ago, no one locked their doors, now look at the companies who are offering security systems, must tell you something. You will find that there are now gated communities with all the CCTV cameras you could wish for, and they are increasing, again it's telling you something. The Russian incomers like this. Should you wish for details, documented of serious crime, and other crime here, here, then I can certainly supply it. Nevertheless, I wish you well !

Thank you Muffett.... no I am not the grass is greener BUT I am the grass will take longer to turn yellow in N. Cyprus. Have you done any research on 5G which is going to be installed in the US and shortly coming to the UK? This operates on a military frequency and the implications of frequency pollution and having the potential to virtually spy on everyone via the 'Internet of Things ' and the SMART everything? Now I accept that they are going to roll this out world-wide yet the general public have not been asked whether they want it or educated by the mainstream to make an informed decision whether to have it. It will reach worldwide which probably includes N. Cyprus if the public continue to sleepwalk into it - however I am 'kicking the can down the road' for as long as I can. BTW I am in Beylerbeyi village so there are no gates up there at present (wink). Also gated communities agree and buy into the CCTV - I am talking about it being on every street corner without consultation in towns.

In case you are interested there is a TEDtalk from a former Environmental Engineer in Silicon Valley about the pollution and dangers of SMART https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0NEaPTu9oI

So the main reason I am moving is to get away from technology or delay it for as long as possible. Also I have never seen a chemtrail in N. Cyprus either yet we are covered by them daily in the UK and many other parts of the world for geoengineering purposes - if you are interested in that you can look up information on 'geoengineering watch' and the technology for weather warfare as weapons grown out of the now outdated 'cloud seeding'.

I have thought about the move for 8 years and done a lot of research on politics, economics, the deep state etc. before I made up my mind. I would rather be on my 'beam ends' there than in the uk if the proverbial 's*&t hits the fan'

Hi Mr Davidson. Just so you know here in north Cyprus we now have mandatory smart electricity meters across the whole of the north. No choice, no option, if you want mains electricity you get a smart meter. Also whilst not specifically in the north , 'chemtrails' have been quite a 'thing' in Cyprus as a quick google of 'chemtrails Cyprus' will show. Maybe the dangers of such things do not cross the green line, I would not know. We also have more 'wifi' radiation here in north Cyprus than most other places as it is one of the major means of distributing internet to peoples homes, offices and businesses here, and not just used for distribution of wire based internet within the home or office or business, as in most other countries. Not trying to put you off Cyprus or north Cyprus, it has many up sides in my opinion, as well as down sides as well but if you are imagining it is some kind of chemtrail free, electromagnetic radiation free or lower level zone I fear you may be mistaken.

Oh and a TEDx talk is not quite the same as a TED Talk, also just so you know.

then you can never touch your capital David!

Yes i know, how good is that !! ... actually getting paid for living here and no worries about title deeds, no worries about someone selling the house that you paid for, no worries about someone claiming compensation because your house is built on their land just wake up every morning and enjoy the weather,the nice food, the nice people, the nice simple way of life sitting on your balcony with your morning coffee with the feel of warmth around you knowing that you are away from the hustle and bustle of life in the uk, no sitting in traffic jams anymore, ah sheer bliss ... all of this and it has not cost you a penny and with the added bonus of the kids and grandkids will be so happy that you are enjoying life and their payout remains in tact, .... win win or what ?

Hi True Kibkomer

Yes I do 'know' the SMART meter is there - it was installed when my property was tenanted during my absence. And of course technology creep as I said is reaching everywhere. BUT the upside of not having everything automated and the fact that many people living there other than using their SMART phones don't have the capacity to link up to the internet of things en masse and from an economical point of view and affluence they do not have multi tech in every room. It has not reached the proportion of the UK - I am living here. Re. chemtrails I look with my eyes and each morning in the UK I can see a grid of chemtrails - which I do not see when I look up in N. Cyprus (I can't speak for the south). This could be due to the fact that air traffic though the north is much less than the south, therefore the capacity to spray from commercial vehicles aside from jets will be limited. So I make my judgements on what I see and intuit - I don't use google as a search engine instead I use an alternative because I don't want my results filtered. Also I have first hand knowledge of people who have suffered due to Wifi that fits all that the engineer on TEDx speaks about. Yes I am aware of the arguments against TEDx but then I make my judgements by triangulating what I see, anecdotal from people who speak their truth and what I hear not by whether a source is mainstream or pedalling 'the scientific method' - 'just so you know'

Apparently there are plans afoot for the south to get 5G by June 2018 because its in the EU roll out - I hope there is a delay for the north not being part of that yet - as I said I am 'kicking the can down the road. No not Utopia in the North but my personal appraisal is life there for me personally will trump the UK.

Hello Mr Davidson, this is now getting to the point where people are yawning, so, I have made my points and you yours, I think you have been given some great advice by members of this forum. You seem to be a bit indifferent to technology, not really my scene. I have to say from some experience, that Erol is the one who is really up to speed with it, I would consider his opinion to be valued. As I said before, I wish you the very best, I won't comment further.

Me neither Muffet you will see I was responding to Kibkommer who apparently wasn't yawning ha ha ha. I wasn't seeking advice simply offering my point of view as I hope we all are. I wish you well too.

Hello Mr Davidson, this is now getting to the point where people are yawning

Quite so!

Simply put: far more are going than coming. Expats of all nationalities have been leaving in droves for some years now, hence low property prices. If one can only draw their eyes away from the natural beauty of this fair land and take in the deserted and dilapidated villas strewn around the place, it should herald a dire warning to any potential purchaser! No matter how much research one does, there are perils before, at, around and after every corner of the property market here in North Cyprus. Property law here is definitely not on the side of expats. If I carry on , I will end up writing a book. Yawn

The bottom line is: rent for a couple of years and give yourself time to see the reality of the situation. Buying a house in the UK can be stressful at the best of times but until you experience it here, you ain't seen nothing yet!

wizardofmann wrote:

Hello Mr Davidson, this is now getting to the point where people are yawning

Quite so!

Simply put: far more are going than coming. Expats of all nationalities have been leaving in droves for some years now, hence low property prices. If one can only draw their eyes away from the natural beauty of this fair land and take in the deserted and dilapidated villas strewn around the place, it should herald a dire warning to any potential purchaser! No matter how much research one does, there are perils before, at, around and after every corner of the property market here in North Cyprus. Property law here is definitely not on the side of expats. If I carry on , I will end up writing a book. Yawn

The bottom line is: rent for a couple of years and give yourself time to see the reality of the situation. Buying a house in the UK can be stressful at the best of times but until you experience it here, you ain't seen nothing yet!

Bought our place 6 years ago. Made an offer which was accepted. Paid deposit. Two months later completed on the sale. Permission to Purchase progressed and took just over 12 months ( Much shorter timeframe than many years ago and possibly even shorter now). Kocan received.

In my opinion I would suggest those that know little about North Cyprus do rent first. We also suggest you need to the history of the island, understand the culture and the people and do lots and we do mean lots of research before purchasing. Ensure you ask lots of questions and be prepared to walk away .....there are plenty of properties to choose from. More stressful than buying or selling in the UK.....no not really providing you do your homework.