Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

Mr Davidson wrote:If you think he is acting alone then you haven't done your research... look at other countries that are moving away from the petrodollar and what they are trading in.

China for one... and other countries are waking up and smelling the coffee....

https://www.mintpressnews.com/chinas-la ... an/233752/

Groucho wrote:https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origin ... -rise.html

Read this too...

Mr Davidson wrote:'The Money Masters'

For those who think that Fiat currency is the answer... you might find this documentary interesting (from 1996). It has very interesting historical content about how money is created, the fractional reserve system and the role of the bankers history - Fed Reserve and the Bank of England. Might also offer information about the 'Bradbury pound' introduced post the war years in the UK. Its a long documentary but I think several will find it very interesting to say the least....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9x986VJ9lI

Mr Davidson wrote:'The Money Masters'

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:

Mr Davidson wrote:'The Money Masters'

Sorry to slightly go off topic but out of idle curiosity where do you stand on the Apollo moon landings? Do you believe we actually landed on the moon?

Hedge-fund wrote:

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:

Mr Davidson wrote:'The Money Masters'

Sorry to slightly go off topic but out of idle curiosity where do you stand on the Apollo moon landings? Do you believe we actually landed on the moon?

How can there be a moon if the Earth is flat?..............

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: As a simple man I just ask if banks can create money out of thin air why do they occasionally run out and need to be bailed out by the government?
Surely if Lehman Bros could create money they would still be around?
My simple understanding is banks don’t create money they leverage the money they have up to limits set by the banking regulations in order to extend credit to their customers?
Obviously banking used to be more regulated and when the regulations were relaxed too much it went horribly wrong.

erol wrote: Back in the day what my £5 note represented was some amount of a rare and limit resource like gold. Today what the bulk of my £5 note actually represents in many ways is someone else's promise to pay back £5 that they previously borrowed from a bank. Plus interest - and this is the element that makes the whole system to some degree a 'ponzi scheme'. When money is created by debt and his debt in interest that has to also be paid back with 'new money' then the total amount of money need to pay all the debt is greater than the total amount of money in existence and thus requires more ane ever increasing amount of debt to 'keep up'.

erol wrote: For what is worth I think as a group 'conspiracy theorist' often do have a better understanding of what money is, what it represents, how it is created (and destroyed) and the like than the average non conspiracy theorist. The same 'drives' that lead them to be wrong about who shot Kennedy, if the earth is flat, who killed Diana etc etc often means they are right or more right about money than many people.

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:Erol my economics stretches as far as knowing that notes used to be an IOU of gold held in safes and the goldsmiths discovered they could lend it out at several times it value....

All as I understand it.

Money has always been abstract, by definition as far as I can see. As I understand it 'Banking' - as a centralised record keeping system of tracking 'wealth' or 'value' pre dates money, in the form of 'cash'. Back in x thousand years BC, there is a village that produces primarily wheat. Each harvest the wheat is collected and stored in a central village silo. How much of that wheat is owned by the different people in the village is then recorded centrally - on stone tablets or with 'tally sticks' or some other means. It would seem that the evolution of written language itself was a function of this need to record and keep track of who owned what amount of a given commodity in a central storage facility. So after harvest it is recorded that I own 50 kilos of wheat. I take 10 kilos of it to met my needs in bread and the like until the next harvest. I also want to get some fish from the fisherman, so I take out another 2 kilos (and its recorded I now have 38kilos left in the central store) carry that down to the fisherman, hand it over to him and he in turn hands over to me 1 kilo of fish. He then takes the 2 kilos of wheat and places it back in the central store I took it from, because he does not need to use it presently. Or we both go to the central store and tell them to record I have 2 kilos less of wheat and he has 2 more and he hands over the kilo of fish to me. This all happens without any physical movement of the wheat - there is just a ledger entry reducing my amount of the wheat by 2 kilos and increasing his by 2 kilos. This is a early primitive form of 'Banking' - the centralised recording of ownership of 'wealth' (in the form of grain) and the ability to transfer that 'wealth/grain' from one person to another just by ledger entries.

Then some bright village spark at the Central Grain Bank comes up with the idea of issuing people with physical tokens that represent the grain they have in the Central Grain Bank of varying amounts. Tokens that can be easily carried around and then passed from one person to another, to allow them to transfer their wealth (grain) to another party without having to have both parties come to the Central Grain Bank. These tokens are then in effect 'Cash', operating on the 'Grain Standard'. Every token issued matches 1:1 a given amount of grain. All tokens can be cashed in for the respective value in grain at once and there will be enough grain to do so.

Then some even brighter spark at the Central Grain Bank realises that actually it just never happens that everyone seeks to withdraw their Grain (or cash in their token that represents it) at the same time. That actually the amount of 'claimed' Grain is always a fraction of the total Grain. So this bright spark thinks - so why not issue more tokens that represent the wealth of Grain than actual Grain there is. As long as not everyone seeks to claim the Grain represented by these tokens all at the same time, everything will be fine. This then becomes fractional Banking based on a grain standard.

The function of 'central recording of wealth' is a valid, useful and needed function of 'banking' as I see it. The ability to then transfer wealth from one party to another, without the need to physically move it is another valid and useful and needed function. The ability to 'abstract out' this wealth in easy to carry 'tokens' is also a valid and useful and necessary function. Even the ability to produce more 'tokens' that represent wealth than actual wealth there is is a useful and valid function - but also a potentially dangerous one. As long as these tokens (money) that exist in exchange value greater than the actual physical wealth (grain) that exits that supports them, are in turn used to create more wealth (more harvest next year than last) and as long as everyone does not loose confidence in the 'grain standard' tokens (money) such that they all seek to change it back to grain at the same time, then the whole thing 'works' and it allows the village economy to grow faster than if you keep the grain standard tokens (money) at a one to one ratio with physical stored grain.

These are, as I understand it, the 'roots' of banking (centralised ledgers of wealth owned and ability to transfer wealth by adjusting ledgers) and money in the form of abstracted out tokens (notes and coins) that represent 'wealth' (in this case grain), and that can actually have a total 'grain value' in excess of the total amount of grain in existence.

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:
Erol I'm going to have to pin you down on the drives and understanding of conspiracytheorists I'm afraid

erol wrote: For what is worth I think as a group 'conspiracy theorist' often do have a better understanding of what money is, what it represents, how it is created (and destroyed) and the like than the average non conspiracy theorist. The same 'drives' that lead them to be wrong about who shot Kennedy, if the earth is flat, who killed Diana etc etc often means they are right or more right about money than many people.

Yes and that thirst for knowledge also seems to give them expertise about structual engineering, aerodynamics, ballistics etc etc etc.
Usually the underlying message is its the businessmen behind the governments who are carrying out these conspiracies for the almighty dollar.

I guess apart from following you tube videos and eating up the facts with a spoon they ironically buy up books by truckload by the likes of Jim Marrs who authored books about the JFK conspiracy, aliens hiding amongst us, freemasons, 9/11, secret societies taking over America, UFOs and obviously the Illuminati. In Alien Agenda he apparently devoted a chapter to theories that the moon may be a UFO.
Obviously Mr Marrs didn’t get paid for these books he wrote them in the public interest. I would imagine he blamed the CIA when his car didn’t start on a cold day.
Sadly he died last year from a heart attack. Or did he????

Can you see where I’m going with this?

I am sure you can find a highly qualified scientist who can frame a very plausible argument that the world is flat.

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: ... and hope hedge fund jumps in!

EnjoyingTheSun wrote: Erol I'm going to have to pin you down on the drives and understanding of conspiracytheorists I'm afraid

erol wrote:
My crypto currencies are still, at the moment, worth more than I paid for them btw

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:

erol wrote:
My crypto currencies are still, at the moment, worth more than I paid for them btw

My ancestors lost my potential inheritance on tulips so I'm not in a position to invest

erol wrote:

If only they had sold out at the right time, then today you may well be on a forum for mega rich expats in the Caribbean and posting from you yacht moored off shore of your 12 bedroom luxury beach front mansion

EnjoyingTheSun wrote:

erol wrote:

If only they had sold out at the right time, then today you may well be on a forum for mega rich expats in the Caribbean and posting from you yacht moored off shore of your 12 bedroom luxury beach front mansion

Nothing has a higher value than timing>
Be careful with that cryptocurreny anything that can enable money laundering is one government clampdown away from dropping like a stone.