Kibkom North Cyprus Forum

I thought I would go for a potentially 'Controversial' post (Sorry Soner but I did warn you!).
I live here full time and love it here over all.
I am trying hard to assimilate myself to the culture and the people,and have never had any unfriendly or hostile experiences.
I am trying to learn the language, but have to admit that other than basic hellos/goodbyes/thank you's I am struggling-I just think the old sponge doesn't take too well to new languages when you hit your mid-fifties-plus I think Turkish is not the easiest language to learn.

I know that when I was in the UK-If an Immigrant came into a shop and spoke to the English speaking shop owner in their native tongue I would probably think to myself-'How rude'.
However I find myself doing the equivalent on a daily basis and frankly feel uncomfortable when I do it.

I have spoken about this to some ex pats who have lived here for a good few years-and have been told that we are regarded as 'Cash Cows'.

I try hard to be socially responsible here- I pay taxes here(on investments),I put my rubbish in the green bins,and generally try to look on the positive side of things that I know are alien to a lot of Brits (I.E. Dogs barking/fly tipping/alleged corruption etc etc).

I always try to buy locally, and only ever shop in the 'South' if the item I want is unobtainable here.

I always use local workmen for jobs I need doing, not ex-pats working Illegally.

So,I think I am doing as much right as I can,but I sometimes have a nagging feeling (With no basis I admit)that we are regarded as a complete pain in the bottom at times.

Am I right or wrong?-I know that there are plenty of UK Cyps on this forum-So I would really like to hear what local people really think when they are talking to their families at home.

You are up against a two tier viewpoint:

"Ancient Brits" are long standing residents, were often here during the difficult times, understand the history and resultant mind sets, respect the infrastructure, and culture and try to be tolerant of what they dont like. Speaking personally not always successfully, but at least try!

"Yeni Ingilizi" are newcomers (and yes of course there are exceptions)who dont know or care where they are, want England in the sun and try to impose their lifestyle on others. They are always complaining and trying to change things. They are resented both by the locals and the Ancient Brits.

Dont worry too much about the language - medical fact it is harder to learn new languages the older you are, and Turkish IS difficult for English speakers(compared to, say, French) being of a different family of languages . It will be appreciated ifyou can learn modes of address and a few greetings, but generally they prefer to practice their English than listen to us torturing their language.

Be patient, read the history and try to understand the illogicalities, be friendly but not too pushing or patronising. Remember that in terms of world history this is a very new country and Government and they are feeling their way.

Dont judge them all by a few bad applies, but dont let them think you are a pushover either - the ethics are a little different, but too late at night to go into that.

Give it time and you will stop thinking of them as "the locals" or "one of them" and become, albeit adopted, a local youself

I found this post very interesting and thought provoking - ergo, valid.

Well done also to the first responder, an intelligent view and sensible.

For myself, I have never felt unwelcome here at all, but then I am working hard to learn the language (and I am 62) to the never-ending amusement of my neighbours! I think living as we do in a Turkish speaking community rather than on an English estate, we are not 'separated' from the local people. We help out where we can and can always call on help when we need it. This is priceless.

My neighbours bring me all sorts of local dishes to try and I, in turn take them English food and cakes etc. I think my neighbours have quite a simple life, care mostly about the basics and therefore are contented, not always striving to have more, get more etc.

I also think my neighbours are a lot kinder natured than most of us Yabanci, they take pleasure in sharing what little they have and we can all take a lesson from that!

If you want to be part of a community and accepted into it, then join the community wholeheartedly. Go out of your way to greet people and help them if you can. There are a lot of poor people here and we throw out so much when it can just be redistributed where there is a need. If you have elderly neighbours (even if you cannot chat) you could still take little gifts of food - this will be so appreciated.

What I remember mostly is that a smile and a friendly greeting costs nothing. Also that respect has to be earned - it is not our automatic right - the only way to gain respect is to be respectful ourselves.

Where the locals think the foreigners are a pain - well thats probably because they are!

suehowlittle, you have said exactly what I was going to say, we live in a mixed community of Turkish and Cypriot and our experiences are like yours and we love it, as Rambling says they prefer to practice their English than let us ruin their language but also appreciate our attempts to learn and willingly teach us words.
Personally we have not come across any discrimination towards us, only friendliness and helpfulness.

Being a TC born in UK and living in UK, but visiting TRNC all my life since 1974, and has lived out there for a year in 95, I can honestly say hand on heart that I have never ever heard any of the locals talk bad about the ex-pats in TRNC, either by TC's or Mainlanders. With the amount of property purchased by "foreigners" in Girne over the years, I would have thought that the local TC's would have got angered by this (which may be a natural reaction in many countries), but no I have not come accross any complaints by any of the locals, people just get on with their own lives. However, what I do hear constantly year after year is the complaining of mainlanders populating the island. This I find hard to understand as it was Turkey that supported the TC's in 74 and have supported the TRNC ever since.

When I first arrived here there were two prices for buying anything one for ex pats and one for locals but that seems to have stopped now.Apart from that I have never found better friends or neighbours.

Soner - my apologies if I'm being a bit thick here (won't be the first time and definitely won't be the last) but in your message you said ".............complaining OF mainlanders populating the island...............".

Did you actually mean complaining "OF" or complaining "ABOUT"?

Hope you can make sense of this

Thanks.

JeanW, ABOUT

Deniz1, It still goes on, I just have to open my mouth and speak turkish with an english accent. But hey, you just get used to it in the end.

If its a big buy I get a TC friend to do it for me.

Thank you Soner; makes perfect sense now.

Jean

If you give respect you get respect

If you try it will be appreciated

There will always be a few "learning incidents"

Its the spice of life in the UK as well as anywhere else

Lots of good answers Philoz - hope you feel your posting has been rewarded! Not really controversial at all! I won't prattle on about the points that others are making so well, but just on the moans about Turks and property - I think the one thorn in the flesh is that they were invited here, given land which they have sold or developed and made a fortune, when many London Cyps (or Australian) coming back have nothing given to them. I think Imight be a bit upset if I was a Cyp, but one cannot really blame the Turks, it was the government invitation who did it. and of course manyof those who came were soldiers in July 1974.
But as I say, that is the main bone of contention, and of course now they are in to third generation and techniclaly many of them are as Cyupriot as many races are now British. It is that of course which makes a bit of a nonsense of the south's demand 'All settlers out!'

as for all the other aspects, I remain

I haven't found that. One of the first words I learned was 'indirim' and it seems to work well. Maybe I am fortunate. the onlypeople who seem to want to charge me more than i can afford are the ex pats who set themselves up in business. The locals have never ripped me off (well apart form one garage but that is a totally different story as he rips everyone off!)

I can only speak from my experience. A local auto electrition never wants to take money from me so I bought him a bottle of whisky he was over the moon. Another TC friend came all the way from his job (about half an hour away) with some ladders as I was shut out I offered money for petrol and was told off!

Marion: Message 14: Totally concur! With one exception (and they were Londralı) it has been Brit businesses (official and unofficial) that have "ripped me off" (in one case very seriously and I may be posting for advice on how to handle but not now). Some Cypriots are tempted to overcharge, but back off if you complain - in one case was so hurt he refused to charge at all , and I felt terrible . I also find that when I am recognised as a long time permanent resident I get better service. Like Deniz I get a Cypriot friend to help with major purchases.

I do find, however, that some of the new Brits are very ostentatious with their money and purchasing luxury items. It upsets me (trying to live simply not just for my own financial benefit but not to upset the ecology and infrastructure ) and it is not surprising that some Cypriots and particularly Mainland Turks who are living in poverty, may be tempted to take advantage.

I am sorry to have to say this (and of course there are one or two honourable exceptions) if it had been left to the British community I probably wouldnt be here because they dont want to know if an older person who ıs not part of their own little clique has problems. Whereas Cypriots have always rushed to help and shown what I was brought up to consider Christian behaviour

amen to all that rambling Rose.

Marions wrote:amen to all that rambling Rose.

You just want to use the new smileys marion, don`t you/

Sonor: Message 2 Some of my "London Turkish" friends find it hard to re-integrate and think their relatives regard them as British rather than Cypriot. Could this explain a reluctance to criticise Brits in front of you?

Yes there is considerable resentment against Mainland Turks. One feisty old Londralı lady used to quote on the Cyprus situation "Get rid of the cats and the dogs will come into the garden"! (maybe she had that the wrong way round?!). Its partly because Cypriots are generally almost painfully honest as regards theft (cheating is slightly different!) mainly perhaps because being a closed community it was hard to go undetected. They resent having to lock their doors because they dont trust the Mainlanders whom they dont know, and can get on boat and disappear. Also I think it is in human nature (totally regardless of race) to resent people to whom you owe gratitude and as you so rightly say they owe an awful lot to Turkey.

I agree with munchkin that there are still two prices.

However a higher price will only be charged to people who offer no respect or consideration to shop owners. Plus if you have the right attitude and ask correctly you will very often get Indirim. Also a point mentioned above you flash your money around it will gladly be taken from you. Remember many Brits have an unearned income that may be 3 or 4 times higher than the average wage here, so may be if there is any dual pricing it is reflecting your spending power against a Turk or TC.

Some great and informative replies to my questions-Thank you all!.
And also opinions from Brits that have lived here a good while-Thank you Rose,amongst others.

I have learnt a fair bit-So 'Londonalis' are Turk Cyps that were born in London but have moved back?.

With regards to my original questions-I think I was trying to establish if there is a 'closet' dislike as there is in the UK to Incomers-In the same way that some Brits are very PC when it comes to discuss Immigration publicly, but have a different opinion when the subject is discussed with close friends.

But when I think about it,I think the demographics of Immigrants from the UK to the TRNC are different to Immigrants to the UK.

Here, there is no discernible free health care/Dole/Free Housing,and a myriad other benefits which makes the UK a honey pot for Immigrants-Much to the disgruntlement(Is there such a word?)of home grown Brits,who have paid though the nose through their working lives via taxes,only to find they are deprived of health care once they become officially ex pat, whilst incomers can pick up the freebies they have not contributed a penny to thanks to the EU 'open border' policy.

(I think this particular 'gripe' is being well dealt with on here on a thread opened by Anna)

In other words I suppose the majority of UK ex-pats here are retirees in one form or another,and are financially self sufficient,and not looking to take a job away from a Local(apart from the odd Dodgy ex pat working here for 'cash in hand' )
And indeed injecting money into the local economy.

I think the indigent population do recognise that, and I would guess that at least one member of their family rely to a lessor or greater extent to having their family income propped up in some way by the ex-pat population-whether it be in service industries,or building services and tradesmen.

Like I said I my first post- I have never encountered any 'Upfront' hostility or unfriendliness of any kind.

I think that is what you call a symbiotic relationship which suits all.

So, 'Vive la difference'(Yes I know it's bloody French but you know what I mean!!) and when in Rome springs to mind when it comes to living here-and I have no problem with that.

So If it is such a great relationship- why do the government here give us such a sodding hard time when re want to renew our 'temporary' residence permit!
(Soner- Love the new smilies!)

I think you may upset some people with that "unearned income" Cih! Some of us are living on pensions and maybe small investment income and worked VERY hard to get them and lived frugally for comfort in our old age, and are having problems coping with rising prices here (see other thread).

I get the impresssion (but am subject to correction) that the standard of living of the AVERAGE Cypriot is improving and it has to be admitted this may be due to the spending power of the wealtheir expatriates and Mainland tourists. And a few are doing very nicely think you, but they are aminority.

A major problem is that there is such a wide divergence of wealth both within and between, the various communities here and the ostentatious wealthy are forcing prices up.


A am glad to say that the Cypriot "man in the street" is recognising that the gap in spending power between him and the average British expat is decreasing,largely due the the global financial crises, and welcoming those who bring small , but regular incomes as oppposed to "fast bucks" but it seems that some (and sadly that includes some at local and national Government level) seem determined to kill the goose that laid the golden eggs by turning the country into an expensive theme park.

But I am going

Rose-great use of new smilies there-10/10!

Philoz: Sorry! "Londralı" plural and without a dot on the "i" means roughly "Those from/of London" .I tend to use it because , perhpas, illogically , I find "London Turk" a bit non PC!

I thınk the problem about Resıdence and related Work Permits, is that originally the Cypriots were very layed back about these, but too many people were taking advantage,* and the unions were complaining (just like UK!) of unfair competition with locals.

Not intending this as racist, but I find the Turkik peoples generally are very relaxed and easy going, but when they do get p........d off, they come back hard and fast (look at l974!). In the case of residence they may have overreacted, and the innocent,as so often happens, are suffering for the guilty!

* "Ask not what your (adopted) country can do for you, ask rather what you can do for your country"

Rose-'Londrali' certainly rolls of the tongue a lot better than 'UK Turkish Cypriot'.
I will be using that in future.
Thank you!

RamblingRose msg 19, I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. Infact, in the TRNC I am seen to be a Londralı and in UK a Kıbrıslı, wish it were the other way around.
But then again I do have relatives out in the TRNC and they have never complained about the Ex-pat situation.